brundel
Board Sponsor
It certainly might be. My memory isnt great but I have a list of potentials I have already researched. I believe this is one of them.
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- Thread starter brundel
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It certainly might be. My memory isnt great but I have a list of potentials I have already researched. I believe this is one of them.
brundel
Board Sponsor
The forskolin is probably a no go just due to the price.
Icariin is great but I dont think it increases test levels. Its ONLY a PDE5 inhibitor right? It would be great for vasodialation and erection but probably not contribute to Total or free T levels.
bswanny
Member
Not sure if accurate but I remeber a doctor talking on super human radio saying that serms also block androgen receptors and have had as many negative outcomes as positive. From what I have read I think I will stay away from serms. Again just my opinion. I could be wrong
brundel
Board Sponsor
I have never seen any studies to support this.
In addition the SERM we use has been shown to be beneficial in a number of ways. Never have i heard of a compound that binds to estrogen and androgen receptors. IM not ever sure if this is possible.
JD261985
Banned
Can you tell us which SERM? I'd rather have a SERM from you guys then from any of these other company's to be honest lol
bswanny
Member
And that could be true. The doctor also went on to site how his DHT based product was better for gyno. Therefore his opinion was tied into the sale of his product. Looked up ergo log for some studies pertaining to what he stated but no luck. He stated the same for formastane but I belive he was talking about the injectable form. Much stronger than topical and in larger dose
brundel
Board Sponsor
For now I need to keep it quiet but its not new. Its been used in low doses in other supplements but never in high enough amounts.
I do know that breast cancer patients do use this as a natural alternative to Tamoxifen and it works about as well.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Formestane is an AI so it doesnt bind to estro receptors like a SERM. It is mildly anabolic though so its metabolite WILL bind to androgen receptors.
bswanny
Member
Correct, sorry. He stated forestane binds to the androgen receptors. Also you are correct in that formestane is mildly anabolic so it is of some benefit in the receptor. I belive the dr in this interview was the founder of primordial. He was just very against serms
horizons
Well-known member
Why? The SERM is only going to make the formula better
horizons
Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed
brundel
Board Sponsor
SquatsAndOats
Active member
I joined this thread because of this. I have gotten bunk letro from research companies and have had gyno symptoms for a month. First it was a little itch now for a week or so it's been painful knots that aren't under the nipple but to the side and up or under. I plan on using pharma letro and formeron to prevent rebound as well as prami. What dosage shoul I use the formeron and when/how long after letro. Letro is going to be 2.5mg a day until I see results I'm looking for or I can't stand the sides then I'll taper.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Research chem sites are terrible.
If you have letro and it really is letro you wont need both letro and Formeron. Youll be miserable.
Run the letro till symptoms subside or lack of motivation and libido become intolerable. At this point just stop Letro and jump on the Formeron.
Once letro has dropped estro even 1 pump Formeron will be plenty to keep estro at bay so long as no other offending compounds are in use.
I dont think you need prami unless you believe its prolactin related.
SquatsAndOats
Active member
Thanks brundel. I'm confident it will be letro. One of those online pharmacy sites that I have used for other stuff before. I was also hoping to use the formeron to keep sex drive up a bit and strength up wile on letro. I have powerlifting meet in 2 weeks. The prami was just Reseach prami that I got from a friend who said it worked, and it seems to. I was going off what the "gyno killer" thread was. I also seemed to e prolactin sensitive because I got sides from epistane that nolva made worse. This was nolva that I had used 4 months earlier and worked. I wish I could find an actual place for torem. Seems like the best serm
horizons
Well-known member
I just want to make sure the product is worth you giving me your money for.
With those ingredients and the possible synergy they will cause, I don't mind forking over cash to even put a very extensive review as well!
xant
New member
Now I'm really considering buying bulk tongkat.
koi1214
Well-known member
Why not just wait until Brundel releases new product?
bswanny
Member
Agree. Ive bought alot of different bulk tongkat and the only one ive felt somewhat work is the one used in bioforge. I would definetly advise to wait as this sounds like the different extraction process used for this tongkat creates a superior product not seen before.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Yesterday I experienced a pretty heavy blood pressure increase. My BP cuff doesnt fit over my arm well so sometimes it gives a wrong reading but I had.
147/113. Considering I have a pacemaker in my chest this is bad.
Second reading was 137/57 So Im thinking the bottom reading is off due to cuff not fitting but the 147 is still bad. Im on beta blockers and blood pressure medications. I cant imagine what it would do to someone not on medications. Do any of you guys have blood pressure cuffs?
If so please take a few readings during the day to get an average.
brundel
Board Sponsor
For sure this stuff is better than anything we have seen.
THis based upon the dozen or so guys who have tested it and compared to other brands. Id just wait it out.
BigGame84
Well-known member
I take Ashwaghanda daily. Only the Sensoril trademarked extract, if that makes a difference.
Piston Honda
Well-known member
Why is the tongkat causing such high bp rates? I'd be interested to know how this works.
Driven2lift
Legend
Me too, maybe it will help bring mine up to a more normal level... Been following in the shadows here, looks very promising
brundel
Board Sponsor
Could just be me. My levels are already high.
In other studies it increased heart rate and potentially BP so this isnt a new side effect.
For most people a slight elevation is fine. We will just have to warn those with hypertension not to take or take with caution.
brundel
Board Sponsor
We may just leave the SERM out for expense reasons. Probably we will make a SERM and a test product although they are similar.
Certain portions of tongkat show promise as SERMS anyways so this may be how it elevates T levels.
Comparative X-ray and conformational analysis of a new crystal of 13α,21-dihydroeurycomanone with eurycomanone from Eurycoma longifolia and their anti-estrogenic activity using the uterotrophic assay.
Teh CH, Abdulghani M, Morita H, Shiro M, Hussin AH, Chan KL.
Author information
Abstract
13 α,21-Dihydroeurycomanone (1), a known quassinoid of Eurycoma longifolia Jack was recrystallized from chloroform into a novel crystal structure in space group P2 (1). Its X-ray data were compared with those of eurycomanone ( 2). Following intraperioneal injections at similar doses of 2.44 µmol/kg/day for 3 consecutive days, 2 displayed comparable potency with tamoxifen but was more potent than 1 in the anti-estrogenic effect against 17 α-ethynylestradiol (EE)-induced uterotrophy of immature rats.
© Georg Thieme Verlag KG Stuttgart · New York.
Certain portions of tongkat show promise as SERMS anyways so this may be how it elevates T levels.
Comparative X-ray and conformational analysis of a new crystal of 13α,21-dihydroeurycomanone with eurycomanone from Eurycoma longifolia and their anti-estrogenic activity using the uterotrophic assay.
Teh CH, Abdulghani M, Morita H, Shiro M, Hussin AH, Chan KL.
Author information
Abstract
13 α,21-Dihydroeurycomanone (1), a known quassinoid of Eurycoma longifolia Jack was recrystallized from chloroform into a novel crystal structure in space group P2 (1). Its X-ray data were compared with those of eurycomanone ( 2). Following intraperioneal injections at similar doses of 2.44 µmol/kg/day for 3 consecutive days, 2 displayed comparable potency with tamoxifen but was more potent than 1 in the anti-estrogenic effect against 17 α-ethynylestradiol (EE)-induced uterotrophy of immature rats.
© Georg Thieme Verlag KG Stuttgart · New York.
horizons
Well-known member
All kinds of supplements can cause high blood pressure
Anabeta sky rocketed mine I had to stop. Did absolutely nothing but make me feel like crap. Never had high blood pressure either
flightposite
Board Sponsor
horizons said:
Anabeta didn't do diddly squat for me either.
stankyleg
Well-known member
Just made me hungry as hell
brundel
Board Sponsor
Yah tons of things and lots of supplements cause an increase in blood pressure.
Pretty much every stimulant is vasoconstrictive so BP goes up. Caffeine for example raises blood pressure considerably but is considered extremely safe.
Its just something to note and be aware of.
With regards to anabeta, I dont know whats in it but the whole point of giving you guys test batches of our ingredients is to ensure we dont make a product that doesnt work.
Probably we will do the T booster
Maybe a separate Serm
Pre workout
Intra workout maybe.-this is because over the last few years I have been perfecting mine and my personal brews have all succeeded thus far
Pretty much every stimulant is vasoconstrictive so BP goes up. Caffeine for example raises blood pressure considerably but is considered extremely safe.
Its just something to note and be aware of.
With regards to anabeta, I dont know whats in it but the whole point of giving you guys test batches of our ingredients is to ensure we dont make a product that doesnt work.
Probably we will do the T booster
Maybe a separate Serm
Pre workout
Intra workout maybe.-this is because over the last few years I have been perfecting mine and my personal brews have all succeeded thus far
bswanny
Member
Yah tons of things and lots of supplements cause an increase in blood pressure.
Pretty much every stimulant is vasoconstrictive so BP goes up. Caffeine for example raises blood pressure considerably but is considered extremely safe.
Its just something to note and be aware of.
With regards to anabeta, I dont know whats in it but the whole point of giving you guys test batches of our ingredients is to ensure we dont make a product that doesnt work.
Probably we will do the T booster
Maybe a separate Serm
Pre workout
Intra workout maybe.-this is because over the last few years I have been perfecting mine and my personal brews have all succeeded thus far
Im a huge backer of intraworkout eaa. Swear the addition to my workout routine saw the biggest gains to me of anything supplement wise. Looking forward to alot of BLR products
kisaj
Legend
I love it. I know I've posted how I'm a noot guy, but ashwaganda at 2.5 percent and higher with bocapa at 40 percent or higher is amazing. It feels narcotic. Not saying to add to current plans, just saying it is an option for another product since you seem to be able to source quality.
horizons
Well-known member
My BP sky rocketed, got really bad fatigue, hot flushes and everytime I have a pre workout or a bit of caffeine I would feel like my heart was going to explode out of my chest. I even lost all libido, which is a side effect of HBP.
I couldnt figure it out, so I stopped the anabeta and it went down 30 points in under 24 hours. Libido came back immediately
Just a random idea on a decent pre workout blend!
L-cirtulline
Micronised GMS
High quality LCLT
Agmatine
Potassium nitrate
Caffeine
DPLA
Synephrine
Phenylracetam (demiurge) or a noop blend
A new stim like AMP- citrate
koi1214
Well-known member
You know when I dosed tongkat at 500mgs of tongkat I swear my heart was racing and my arms and face were red.When I lewered the dose to the current 250mgs everything is just fine.Without testing my BP I am unable to see how high it was with the 500 mg dose.
koi1214
Well-known member
My BP sky rocketed, got really bad fatigue, hot flushes and everytime I have a pre workout or a bit of caffeine I would feel like my heart was going to explode out of my chest. I even lost all libido, which is a side effect of HBP.
I couldnt figure it out, so I stopped the anabeta and it went down 30 points in under 24 hours. Libido came back immediately
Just a random idea on a decent pre workout blend!
L-cirtulline
Micronised GMS
High quality LCLT
Agmatine
Potassium nitrate
Caffeine
DPLA
Synephrine
Phenylracetam (demiurge) or a noop blend
A new stim like AMP- citrate
I tried the new AMP citrate product at 1 scoop,1.5 scoops and 2 scoops and I noticed nothing at all.Kind of disappointing as all the reviews were so good.
BigGame84
Well-known member
Proprietary Blend 1942 mg **
L-Citrulline Malate, Zingerone, Caffeine, 2-Aminoisoheptane (Aconitum Kusnezoffii), Echinopsine (Globe Thistle)
Caffeine Per Serving 125 mg
The best preworkout formula I ever had but quickly got discontinued. Was the new E-pharm Clearshot. Luckily I was able to stock up.
L-Citrulline Malate, Zingerone, Caffeine, 2-Aminoisoheptane (Aconitum Kusnezoffii), Echinopsine (Globe Thistle)
Caffeine Per Serving 125 mg
The best preworkout formula I ever had but quickly got discontinued. Was the new E-pharm Clearshot. Luckily I was able to stock up.
ahh123
Active member
Yah tons of things and lots of supplements cause an increase in blood pressure.
Pretty much every stimulant is vasoconstrictive so BP goes up. Caffeine for example raises blood pressure considerably but is considered extremely safe.
Its just something to note and be aware of.
With regards to anabeta, I dont know whats in it but the whole point of giving you guys test batches of our ingredients is to ensure we dont make a product that doesnt work.
Probably we will do the T booster
Maybe a separate Serm
Pre workout
Intra workout maybe.-this is because over the last few years I have been perfecting mine and my personal brews have all succeeded thus far
Was checking my logs from 18 months when I was taking Tongkat and didn't noticed much effect on raising my BP or HR but maybe it's cause my BP is already usually low - around 95/65 at HR around 70. Few times 30min after taking Tongkat my HR even went slightly down but I was doing mainly sitting behind computer.
What's the extract ratio of your Tongkat - 1:50 or 1:100?
brundel
Board Sponsor
Amp citrate = 1,3-Dimethylbutylamine.
Its about 6-10 times weaker than methylhexanamine/1,3 dime/DMAA.
It also builds tolerance in a few uses so its almost worthless IMHO. Ive been looking at some new stims. THe problem is safety.
Some companies, I wont name names but Im sure you read the news...Some companies spike their products with amphetamines and somehow forget to label them as such. First this breaks the law and while the F D A isnt exactly on top of things if you start spiking products with amphetamines eventually youll get in trouble. Like prison time trouble. In addition this puts the public in harms way which I refuse to do. If I think it could potentially harm you, even if its a commonly used ingredient, I wont use it. Im here to help people and to make products people are stoked to take. Not to lie and sell you narcotics as a pre workout....
FOrgive the rant...its just difficult to keep up with companies using viagra and amphetamines.
At any rate dont think AMP- citrate will be around long as I dont think its a natural analogue and well...stims seem to get whacked fast because of the potential health risks involved with using untested stimulants. Id tread lightly and start with extremely low doses when trying these new stim based supp. Many of them have never been tested in humans.
Its about 6-10 times weaker than methylhexanamine/1,3 dime/DMAA.
It also builds tolerance in a few uses so its almost worthless IMHO. Ive been looking at some new stims. THe problem is safety.
Some companies, I wont name names but Im sure you read the news...Some companies spike their products with amphetamines and somehow forget to label them as such. First this breaks the law and while the F D A isnt exactly on top of things if you start spiking products with amphetamines eventually youll get in trouble. Like prison time trouble. In addition this puts the public in harms way which I refuse to do. If I think it could potentially harm you, even if its a commonly used ingredient, I wont use it. Im here to help people and to make products people are stoked to take. Not to lie and sell you narcotics as a pre workout....
FOrgive the rant...its just difficult to keep up with companies using viagra and amphetamines.
At any rate dont think AMP- citrate will be around long as I dont think its a natural analogue and well...stims seem to get whacked fast because of the potential health risks involved with using untested stimulants. Id tread lightly and start with extremely low doses when trying these new stim based supp. Many of them have never been tested in humans.
brundel
Board Sponsor
2-Aminoisoheptane is a VERY close DMAA analogue if Im not mistaken. Probably why it was quickly discontinued.
brundel
Board Sponsor
50:1
And I know...everyone says 100:1 or even 200:1 but this is why I let you guys eat it.
Go ahead....compare it to ANY extract on the market. Ours is comparable or better. Most likely better.
I know you have already eaten it so you know its good.
My BP was crazy but to be fair.....it happens alot with me. I can make it go up to 150 just by thinking about it. (whitecoat high BP)
So this is why I was hoping you guys could run some BP tests.
xant
New member
Easier said than done.
flightposite
Board Sponsor
brundel said:
I'll see what my insurance covers. If its cheap and they don't hassle me about it. I would be happy to have some bloodwork ran for ya. I won't have any recent ones to compare with though.
horizons
Well-known member
Yeah fair enough AMP was only a random suggestion
I've never tried it so I wouldn't have a clue wether it's good.
Companies are always trying to bring out new stims, then when people find out it works very well almost too well they take it off the market.
Everything can be a analogue of amphetamines, DMAA, ephidrine, even forms of caffeine. People tend to forget that caffeine is a drug as well.
DMAA was found to be safe according to Patrick Arnold and the FDA took the "all guns blazing" approach.
You're right brundel though, most stims on the market wether safe or not, always get abused by morons doing "hey bro, I do like 4-5 scoops a day"
I've never tried it so I wouldn't have a clue wether it's good.
Companies are always trying to bring out new stims, then when people find out it works very well almost too well they take it off the market.
Everything can be a analogue of amphetamines, DMAA, ephidrine, even forms of caffeine. People tend to forget that caffeine is a drug as well.
DMAA was found to be safe according to Patrick Arnold and the FDA took the "all guns blazing" approach.
You're right brundel though, most stims on the market wether safe or not, always get abused by morons doing "hey bro, I do like 4-5 scoops a day"