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For Dr. D and others... increasing test levels

NO MERCY

Active member
I ran a search on this but did not find much. Out of all the products on the market 6oxo, trib, etc... What would be the best product to help increase test levels with no rebound issues. I am leaning towards 6oxo but figured I would ask for opinions before making the purchase.
 
Fenugreek works well for me. I hear that 6-oxo works, but have never used it. Formestane should work for that matter, but I've never specifically used it for that. Trib seems to help, especially stacked with a SERM, but not as well as the fen. Oh man, I forgot, I guess Form is no longer an option, Sldg's new one has the best Ki of all these, it will be a good new alternative and stronger that 6-oxo, but I'm not sure when it will be available.
 
I just finished collecting my pct stack, had the novla at the start of the cycle and picked up a few other things along the way. Going to run novla, Fenugreek based solely on Dr.D's ravings :D and its pretty cheap, Tribulus Terrestris 90%, and avena sativa powder. I should be fairly suppressed after 8 weeks 1-test, we'll see how this works.
 
DR.D said:
Fenugreek works well for me. I hear that 6-oxo works, but have never used it. Formestane should work for that matter, but I've never specifically used it for that. Trib seems to help, especially stacked with a SERM, but not as well as the fen. Oh man, I forgot, I guess Form is no longer an option, Sldg's new one has the best Ki of all these, it will be a good new alternative and stronger that 6-oxo, but I'm not sure when it will be available.
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Okay...from this post I'd assume Ki values somehow are correlated to Test levels. But, through what mechanism? (just curious)
 
R6Speed said:
I just finished collecting my pct stack, had the novla at the start of the cycle and picked up a few other things along the way. Going to run novla, Fenugreek based solely on Dr.D's ravings :D and its pretty cheap, Tribulus Terrestris 90%, and avena sativa powder. I should be fairly suppressed after 8 weeks 1-test, we'll see how this works.
Click to expand...

Ravings!!! You make me sound like a crazy man :hammer:
I guess it was just a matter of time till you realized it, but really, give it a try. It's pretty good stuff with other benefits as well. Like you said, it's cheap so you have nothing to lose.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Okay...from this post I'd assume Ki values somehow are correlated to Test levels. But, through what mechanism? (just curious)
Click to expand...

Ki is a measure if inhibitory concentration used to rank the potency of these drugs. The lower, the better. It translates into less estrogen, so it correlates to test indirectly.
 
DR.D said:
Ravings!!! You make me sound like a crazy man :hammer:
I guess it was just a matter of time till you realized it, but really, give it a try. It's pretty good stuff with other benefits as well. Like you said, it's cheap so you have nothing to lose.
Click to expand...


Where do you buy your cheap Fenugreek?
 
I've been using Dr D's suggestion about using 200mg of DHEA in PCT. I just started using it for my last week of PCT and I can really see/feel the difference. Testicle size went way up and libido returned all of a sudden within 3 days of use.

Another nice, cheap trick courtesy of the Doc. :thumbsup:
 
bioman said:
I've been using Dr D's suggestion about using 200mg of DHEA in PCT. I just started using it for my last week of PCT and I can really see/feel the difference. Testicle size went way up and libido returned all of a sudden within 3 days of use.

Another nice, cheap trick courtesy of the Doc. :thumbsup:
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correct me if I am wrong, but wont DHEA supress you? how is it a good idea in pct?
 
You'd need to take over 0.5g of DHEA/oral to really suppress I think. Maybe even more, but it supplies a ready precursor to test and you need that during PCT because your 17-keto's(adrenal androgens) are usually suppresses by non-17-alkylated stuff like test, 1-test, dec, etc.. So after a cycle it's a good idea to take some, it helps you bounce faster.

I buy Fenugreek local, Natures Way brand, but I've seen it cheap at 1fast, NOW brand I believe.
 
sounds like some good stuff. i'll pick some fenugreek up and DHEA and give it a whirl during PCT. good thread.
 
I think he's referring to standard DHEA. The 7-keto form is also used in PCT but more for cort suppression and thyroid upregulation.

Regular DHEA can be had anywhere. It's dirt cheap even at a grocery store.
 
Yeah, the 7-keto is not nearly as androgenic. You'd need very high doses to actually replace reg. DHEA. It's basically a DHEA metabolite designed specifically to retain DHEA's immune stimulating and anti-cort effects while greatly reducing it's conversion to test, but on PCT you what something that converts to test, that's the whole point.
 
DR.D said:
Ki is a measure if inhibitory concentration used to rank the potency of these drugs. The lower, the better. It translates into less estrogen, so it correlates to test indirectly.
Click to expand...
Thanks Professor D ;) :D
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Thanks Professor D ;) :D
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GILLIGANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN :trout:
 
Dr D I have been reading up on 6oxo and it appears that the studies show that the subjects test levels returned to baseline after they ceased use of the 6oxo.

My question is - For those who usually suffer from having naturally low test levels would Fenugreek and Trib allow the body to naturally increase testosterone production and keep test levels in the normal range?

The reason I ask is I recently had blood work done and I suffer from having low test and free test levels. It may be related to PH use. However, I have not used any PH products since last August.
 
NO MERCY said:
Dr D I have been reading up on 6oxo and it appears that the studies show that the subjects test levels returned to baseline after they ceased use of the 6oxo.

My question is - For those who usually suffer from having naturally low test levels would Fenugreek and Trib allow the body to naturally increase testosterone production and keep test levels in the normal range?

The reason I ask is I recently had blood work done and I suffer from having low test and free test levels. It may be related to PH use. However, I have not used any PH products since last August.
Click to expand...

I think I've heard that after age 20, your plasma test levels decline at about 10% every 5-10 years. So it depends on the individual's genes, past and recent drug use, etc.. 6-oxo is only going to work when estrogen levels are excessive, and you usually see high test levels too in that situation unless it's right after a cycle, so I'd say Fen and Trib may be better long term choices. Unless, your test is low and your est is high for no apparent reason, but even then it make work at least as well.
 
CROWLER said:
Where do you buy your cheap Fenugreek?
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Haven't used it long enough to form an opinion, but I bought ~1.75 ounces of the seed from the bulk section @ Whole Foods for ~$1.00 & capped them myself.

Have considered cracking the seeds to aid absorption.
 
BodyWizard said:
Haven't used it long enough to form an opinion, but I bought ~1.75 ounces of the seed from the bulk section @ Whole Foods for ~$1.00 & capped them myself.

Have considered cracking the seeds to aid absorption.
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An coffee grinder works well. I got a little 15$ cheapo electric and it works great.
 
Dr.D - have you experimented w/ taking DHEA before bed?

knowing that test levels are highest in the AM, I wonder if PM administration wouldn't support the natural production cycle vs. dosing AM & mid-day
 
DR.D said:
An coffee grinder works well. I got a little 15$ cheapo electric and it works great.
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super li'l gizmos, aint they? :thumbsup:

so you go w/ cracked over whole, then?


(the fenugreek, I mean ;) )
 
BodyWizard said:
Dr.D - have you experimented w/ taking DHEA before bed?

knowing that test levels are highest in the AM, I wonder if PM administration wouldn't support the natural production cycle vs. dosing AM & mid-day
Click to expand...

No, don't take it at night. It works hand in hand to balance out with melatonin. You don't want it to be at high levels in you system at the same time that melatonin is, or it messes up you internal timing system. I take 100mg upon waking and again at noon. That follows natural rhythms better. Also, I'll use Fenugreek at night, and it inhibits DHEA bioavailability from the gut, so I never take them at the same time.
 
BodyWizard said:
super li'l gizmos, aint they? :thumbsup:

so you go w/ cracked over whole, then?


(the fenugreek, I mean ;) )
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Yeah, because it's just too hard for the body to break the seeds down. Actually, I've never processed my own Fen, but seeds in general are tough to digest, so cracking is needed. I buy my fen commercial because it's cheap enough, but I cap a lot of other stuff.
 
Dr.D, you're a treasure!
(knew you were the right man to ask)

That's exactly the feedback I was looking for.
SO - DHEA in the AM/midday, and fenugreek @ night w/ the melatonin.

(props for the speedy response, too!)
 
Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics? the ingredients look good for a test/sex drive booster.
German Tribulus Terrestris 40mg (80% protodioscin)
Designer Pro-Testosterone Complex: 500mg
Eurycoma Longifolia
Avena Sativa
Rhodiola Rosea
Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine
 
size said:
Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics? the ingredients look good for a test/sex drive booster.
German Tribulus Terrestris 40mg (80% protodioscin)
Designer Pro-Testosterone Complex: 500mg
Eurycoma Longifolia
Avena Sativa
Rhodiola Rosea
Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine
Click to expand...

That does look good, I may actually check it out!

I have used fenugreek, NOW's brand at 6 caps, 2 caps 3x daily. It did "appear" to work, but these are all so subjective I'm not sure. I was definitely horny, kind of like FUZU.
 
I've also been taking Fenugreek 6-10caps (Solaray) which has the same potency as NOW and have yet to feel anything.
I'm not on PCT, this is more to combat SAD symptoms.
 
size said:
Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics?

Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine[/I]
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This amino is more noted for it's effect on glocuse metabolism than anything else. Can't imagine why it would be sold like this, unless the whole herb is present too.
 
I found at bulk foods you can order ground seeds from 3oz up five pound for an excellent price,(20.00). They also have whole seeds.
Invalid Link Removed
 
Thank you for the link, that is a good price. Might have to add one more to the list of things I cap :D

I buy gel caps by the 1000's, it's time consuming but so much cheaper. Actually, a scoop could just be thrown in the night time shake
 
Where is the best place to buy DHEA? I know it is common, but where is the best quality DHEA in 100/mg caps if possible for a good price?


Mr.50
 
Fenugreek

I have searched around, here and on the net, and the biggest thing I can find about fenugreek is that it suppports lactation.

Invalid Link Removed

how is it helpful as a pct agent?

Peace
 
Mr.50 said:
Where is the best place to buy DHEA? I know it is common, but where is the best quality DHEA in 100/mg caps if possible for a good price?


Mr.50
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Get it wherever it is cheapest, I've never tried a bad brand. I got my last supply at BAC, but it's cheap at Vitanet too.

Invalid Link Removed
 
willieman said:
I have searched around, here and on the net, and the biggest thing I can find about fenugreek is that it suppports lactation.

Invalid Link Removed

how is it helpful as a pct agent?

Peace
Click to expand...

It's good as a blood sugar regulator too, but it's good in PCT in the same way Tribulus helps, but stronger.
 
DR.D said:
6-oxo is only going to work when estrogen levels are excessive, and you usually see high test levels too in that situation unless it's right after a cycle.....
Click to expand...

But, lets assume that estrogen levels are somewhat near normal levels. You incoroporate a suicide inhibitor and now you have less aramotase enzyme in the body and as such estrogen levels are lowered. The result of which via HTPA feedback is an increase in test production. Granted, this typically is not accompanied by a change in body composition because estrogen is beneficial in this regards, but test levels are increased.

Or am I confused.......
 
bow said:
But, lets assume that estrogen levels are somewhat near normal levels. You incoroporate a suicide inhibitor and now you have less aramotase enzyme in the body and as such estrogen levels are lowered. The result of which via HTPA feedback is an increase in test production. Granted, this typically is not accompanied by a change in body composition because estrogen is beneficial in this regards, but test levels are increased.

Or am I confused.......
Click to expand...

No, your right on track. Steroidal AI's reduce SHBG so I would guess that they would be less aggressive in elevating test if your still upregulating your AR's. Although a dose dependant elevation in LH and FHS does occur. I think that's why you can get anti-e effects at low doses, but need 3x the dose for test stim. But then leave that dose window and go even higher and you may reverse the effect to become detrimental.
 
FYI:

I started taking the "Libido Stack" from Bulk Nutrition, as well as cAMPHIBOLIC from our sponsor, USP Labs. So far I'm horny as hell, we'll see how it goes. :thumbsup:
 
Mr.50 said:
Where is the best place to buy DHEA? I know it is common, but where is the best quality DHEA in 100/mg caps if possible for a good price?


Mr.50
Click to expand...
I've been buying mine from this place...

Invalid Link Removed
 
Anyone every tried Hydrotest from nutrabolics? the ingredients look good for a test/sex drive booster.
German Tribulus Terrestris 40mg (80% protodioscin)
Designer Pro-Testosterone Complex: 500mg
Eurycoma Longifolia
Avena Sativa
Rhodiola Rosea
Fenugreek 4-hydroxy isoleucine

I used Hydrotest as a standalone to see how it "felt" (never had any blood work). I lost alot of water weight (pissing every 30 mins), was easily pissed-off, and my sex drive was thru the roof. I believe my T was raised a substantial amount by this product.
 
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