First Test-E cycle.

Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Well, you have two choices. You can take an Ai or a SERM. Or add mast. If your e2 is high, above, idk, 55, ... I would take an Ai, if not, I would take a serm. Is test all that you're taking? Or is dhb still in the game? The more dht's you have, the more estrogen you need, as it's neuro protective.
I would not assign a number threshold for when to introduce an AI. Guys respond differently to different levels, as well as total androgens relative to estrogen being part of the equation. I understand you’re trying to convey that he shouldn’t just take an AI if his levels aren’t too high on paper, but people are going to read that and take your advice out of context as hard ideas on ranges. People use wildly different stacks and feel very different at different estradiol levels.

Also, amounts of DHT derivatives used are not linear indicators of actual DHT levels, by any means. You don’t need more estrogen in the picture just because you added DHB. Now if you were going to say he should probably consume more choline, I can get behind that.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I would not assign a number threshold for when to introduce an AI. Guys respond differently to different levels, as well as total androgens relative to estrogen being part of the equation. I understand you’re trying to convey that he shouldn’t just take an AI if his levels aren’t too high on paper, but people are going to read that and take your advice out of context as hard ideas on ranges. People use wildly different stacks and feel very different at different estradiol levels.

Also, amounts of DHT derivatives used are not linear indicators of actual DHT levels, by any means. You don’t need more estrogen in the picture just because you added DHB. Now if you were going to say he should probably consume more choline, I can get behind that.
On 200mg or less I need to be in range with estrogen. Bump that number to 400-600 and I'm golden with e2 sitting around 100.

I actually feel shitty on cycle if my estrogen isint high normal to the low 100s.
There's other variables that can alter that but in general, the higher my test the higher my estrogen can go within reason.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
On 200mg or less I need to be in range with estrogen. Bump that number to 400-600 and I'm golden with e2 sitting around 100.

I actually feel shitty on cycle if my estrogen isint high normal to the low 100s.
There's other variables that can alter that but in general, the higher my test the higher my estrogen can go within reason.
Thank you; this more simply illustrates the point I wanted to make.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Took my last injection of DHB yesterday morning. But I did pick up a bottle of S23 that I just started yesterday at 30mg everyday. I hear with S23 it’s a good idea to not take it solo and introduce something that will raise estrogen such as test. Which is what I’m taking. So maybe just stick to .25 Arimidex every other day until the S23 fully Kicks in and I could have a good idea what effect S23 is having on my estrogen.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Took my last injection of DHB yesterday morning. But I did pick up a bottle of S23 that I just started yesterday at 30mg everyday. I hear with S23 it’s a good idea to not take it solo and introduce something that will raise estrogen such as test. Which is what I’m taking. So maybe just stick to .25 Arimidex every other day until the S23 fully Kicks in and I could have a good idea what effect S23 is having on my estrogen.
S23 like all orals fully kicks in within a few hours, that's why orals will almost always give you a boost pre-work out. Just a heads up, s23 is on par with most oral steroids in terms of side effects and health markers so keep an eye on that
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Yeah S23 has a very short half life, something like 6 hours or so. It’s already kicked out by the time you are reading this

You pinning it or eating capsules/tabs?
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Yeah S23 has a very short half life, something like 6 hours or so. It’s already kicked out by the time you are reading this

You pinning it or eating capsules/tabs?
Not pinning, it’s a liquid
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I would not assign a number threshold for when to introduce an AI. Guys respond differently to different levels, as well as total androgens relative to estrogen being part of the equation. I understand you’re trying to convey that he shouldn’t just take an AI if his levels aren’t too high on paper, but people are going to read that and take your advice out of context as hard ideas on ranges. People use wildly different stacks and feel very different at different estradiol levels.

Also, amounts of DHT derivatives used are not linear indicators of actual DHT levels, by any means. You don’t need more estrogen in the picture just because you added DHB. Now if you were going to say he should probably consume more choline, I can get behind that.
Sure, that number was just an example. No way I can give an exact treshold.
 
Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Yeah, that would also be lean enough for me. I'd concentrate on adding some muscle at that body fat level. Wasting a cycle to get leaner wouldn't make sense to me rly.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
I deleted that picture, just cause I don’t want pictures of myself on a open steroid forum, but unfortunately I don’t have the best ab genetics. Like Arnold, I can only get the four pack ): View attachment 204644
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Been taking 0.50mg of Armidex everyday, that seems to be the sweet spot for me in terms of not holding onto water but also feeling good. The Arimidex is from a local supplement shop who makes all there own stuff. So for all I know it could be under-dose as f$ck.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Ok…so throughout this cycle neither really any cycle I’ve ever taken, I’ve never noticed any testicular atrophy. I’m sure they gotten smaller just not enough for me to truly take notice. But me and my girlfriend were just having sex and I notice my ball sack is almost non existent. I’m literally mid pumping and I touch my testicles and literally my left ball is not there. It’s gone, it’s gotten sucked up. I’m literally typing this 10 minutes later laying next to my girlfriend, who doesn’t know about my gear use LOL. But afterwards my balls came back. I just thought that was extremely weird and thought I would share.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Ok…so throughout this cycle neither really any cycle I’ve ever taken, I’ve never noticed any testicular atrophy. I’m sure they gotten smaller just not enough for me to truly take notice. But me and my girlfriend were just having sex and I notice my ball sack is almost non existent. I’m literally mid pumping and I touch my testicles and literally my left ball is not there. It’s gone, it’s gotten sucked up. I’m literally typing this 10 minutes later laying next to my girlfriend, who doesn’t know about my gear use LOL. But afterwards my balls came back. I just thought that was extremely weird and thought I would share.
Welcome to the geared life bro. You run HCG, or you get used to it. If you are on forever and done with kids you certainly don’t need HCG, but if you plan to PCT you definitely will have an easier smoother recovery using a low dose of HCG on cycle.

And I’m not trying to scare you. There are guys on for years and years with raisin nuts who blast HCG when it’s time for a baby and end up successfully getting their lady pregnant when they finally try, BUT letting the testes atrophy totally on cycle means they physically have to build back up after in PCT, as opposed to being active during cycle so they’re just waiting for the LH signal when gear clears and you start your SERM therapy.

HCG also can promote some extra libido and semen volume, but most importantly using it continues DHEA & Pregnenolone production when on exogenous androgens you otherwise start to lose when shutdown. Most guys on TRT need to take those or run HCG to keep their endogenous production sufficient. This isn’t so big a deal on a 12 week cycle, but just another reason HCG while on isn’t a bad idea.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Haven’t kept you guys updated in a while. Cycle is still going great, I’m liking the S23 although I do feel like it’s making me look a little flatter. I just ordered some T3 though. Planning on running this at 50mcg everyday. Almost 10 years ago when I was like 15-16 year’s old I got my thyroid levels tested and my TSH level was 5.8, which singles that I have hypothyroidism. During this time the doctor wanted to put me on Thyroid medication literally the same day I got the results back without even checking my T3 or T4 levels. Which my parents found ridiculous. Considering I was a fully healthy 15 year old and they didn’t want me to be put on hormones for the rest of my life. Well 10 years later I still never got my TSH checked again. (Which I definitely should and will do soon). But I feel adding in T3 could definitely be a key component in helping me achieve my goals of getting into a single digit body fat percentage. Especially if i truly do have an under active thyroid.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Why don’t you spend the $100 right now to get them checked? Order off privatemdlabs with their monthly 15% off code, or some other site because I know there’s a handful, and book an appointment with Quest this week if you can find an open slot.

It’s a good idea to know what your natural levels are before you **** them up, otherwise you won’t know if you recovered them later.

Also, if you think you are flat now get ready for what 50mcg is going to do. Run that **** at 25-30mcg, high end of normal, and let your diet and cardio do the work. You aren’t a women and your muscles aren’t going to stand up to T3 doses the way theirs do.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Why don’t you spend the $100 right now to get them checked? Order off privatemdlabs with their monthly 15% off code, or some other site because I know there’s a handful, and book an appointment with Quest this week if you can find an open slot.

It’s a good idea to know what your natural levels are before you **** them up, otherwise you won’t know if you recovered them later.

Also, if you think you are flat now get ready for what 50mcg is going to do. Run that **** at 25-30mcg, high end of normal, and let your diet and cardio do the work. You aren’t a women and your muscles aren’t going to stand up to T3 doses the way theirs do.
Definitely Going too, I have a lab test at quest for Friday. So hopefully should get the T3 and results back at the same time.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Just realized that my Tren E vials (which I’m NOT taking for a long time) are labeled 300mg/ml. It’s from a home brewer supplier whose stuff is legit but 300mg a ML? Is this even possible? He also has Mast-E that he claims is 450mg/ML. My Test-E is from the same guy who claims it’s 400mg/ML. I’m aware that 400mg/ML is easily done but hearing those other claims it makes me wonder if what I’m taking is under-dosed. I could only be taking 250mg/ML. At least I know the Test is Legit because of multiple gyno flare ups, but next week I’m gonna get my Test levels checked to see what they are at.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Just realized that my Tren E vials (which I’m NOT taking for a long time) are labeled 300mg/ml. It’s from a home brewer supplier whose stuff is legit but 300mg a ML? Is this even possible? He also has Mast-E that he claims is 450mg/ML. My Test-E is from the same guy who claims it’s 400mg/ML. I’m aware that 400mg/ML is easily done but hearing those other claims it makes me wonder if what I’m taking is under-dosed. I could only be taking 250mg/ML. At least I know the Test is Legit because of multiple gyno flare ups, but next week I’m gonna get my Test levels checked to see what they are at.
I don’t know what chemical limits are, but in general I believe higher concentration gear requires more additives/solvent to stay in solution, which makes it bite/more PIP. Not really as good for you in that regard. I think many guys cut it down with sterile oil or at least mix it with less concentrated gear in the same syringe to try to dilute it some.

Regarding underdosed gear - best to assume it’s properly dosed if it’s working. You don’t want to blast extra if you are getting results desired. It would suck to take a bunch of oil and then switch suppliers and find out you actually were taking those bigger doses and now you just need more juice than you wanted to believe.

I mean you are doing this for results so those are important too - I’m not saying you should take so little it doesn’t help; it’s just important to keep perspective and remember it’s a powerful aid but it’s not magic either. Things take time. And if you want to do this for a long time you don’t want to be a guy who counts his weekly gear use in grams. If you aren’t trying to be world level competitive in a strength sport you don’t need grams. And if you are, and you do, you need to play that ace card when you are in striking distance of moving onto that stage.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
I don’t know what chemical limits are, but in general I believe higher concentration gear requires more additives/solvent to stay in solution, which makes it bite/more PIP. Not really as good for you in that regard. I think many guys cut it down with sterile oil or at least mix it with less concentrated gear in the same syringe to try to dilute it some.

Regarding underdosed gear - best to assume it’s properly dosed if it’s working. You don’t want to blast extra if you are getting results desired. It would suck to take a bunch of oil and then switch suppliers and find out you actually were taking those bigger doses and now you just need more juice than you wanted to believe.

I mean you are doing this for results so those are important too - I’m not saying you should take so little it doesn’t help; it’s just important to keep perspective and remember it’s a powerful aid but it’s not magic either. Things take time. And if you want to do this for a long time you don’t want to be a guy who counts his weekly gear use in grams. If you aren’t trying to be world level competitive in a strength sport you don’t need grams. And if you are, and you do, you need to play that ace card when you are in striking distance of moving onto that stage.
Absolutely, although since I am cutting the results haven’t been that dramatic but the fact is I’ve gained 6-7 pounds already in a calorie deficit while getting even leaner. Which is truly incredible when you think about it.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Absolutely, although since I am cutting the results haven’t been that dramatic but the fact is I’ve gained 6-7 pounds already in a calorie deficit while getting even leaner. Which is truly incredible when you think about it.
To truly put that in perspective I would estimate that I’m about 10% BF right now. Last year I was also around 10% BF at this time and started my cut at a similar weight. I’m 14lbs heavier right now than I was last year at this same BF %. Which I think is incredible honestly.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Haven’t updated in a while, I’ve started taking 50mcg of T3 about 11 days ago. Before I started I got my thyroid tested and my TSH was 5.4, I have to say the T3 has almost been counterproductive to my diet because I’ve been absolutely starving 24/7. Last night I messed up and had a binge eating session where I probably ate 5000 calories and was still hungry. I feel like I could literally enter a food eating contest and easily win right now. But anyways because of this I’m changing up my diet. Sort of gonna do some intermediate fasting. Not because I believe the benefits of it but just so I can go to bed feeling somewhat satisfied. I work out at night, so right after my workout I’m going to have a huge 2,300 calorie meal.
 
Last edited:
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Remember you can add a ton of veggies for minor calories, carbonated things like diet soda take up more space in your stomach, on that note drink a bunch of water right before each meal to fill your stomach, and dietary fiber is your friend. Think whole grains like rolled oats, unprocessed veggies & fruit, meat that hasn’t been ground or diced up and is leaner. Mustard, hot sauce, cinnamon, stevia & Splenda don’t have meaningful calories.

You can mash up/rice cauliflower with some salt and really get some extra volume in your meals.

25-30mcg of T3 is all you need for a strong replacement dose in a diet. You could back that down and probably get less hunger and the same progress if it causes less binging/deviation, and better muscle preservation.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
I have some vials of Dienolone Acetate and caber on the way, when I’ve read about this compound it really intrigued me. A so-called “Diet Tren”. Only thing is there really isn’t to much information about. I scavenged the whole internet reading every single thing about the stuff. @Hyde I’ve seen your name come up a couple times, have your ran dienolone acetate before? I plan on 100mg every other day.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I have some vials of Dienolone Acetate and caber on the way, when I’ve read about this compound it really intrigued me. A so-called “Diet Tren”. Only thing is there really isn’t to much information about. I scavenged the whole internet reading every single thing about the stuff. @Hyde I’ve seen your name come up a couple times, have your ran dienolone acetate before? I plan on 100mg every other day.
350mg/wk will be a great, effective dose. I pinned 400mg for 5 weeks & then 500mg/wk for another 4 weeks of Dien Enanthate. After factoring loss due to ester weight, 350 ace and 400 e would be extremely comparable doses - 400/wk of e actually was plenty, and 500 felt like too much gas for my liking. 400 did everything I could have hoped for and I won’t exceed that again. This was atop 210mg test e/wk.

Honestly, I would consider starting a little lighter, like 75mg eod. You really don’t want to use static doses throughout a cycle; better to start lighter and titrate the dose up slowly as new tissue is added and more gas is required to keep progress going. So if you start too high, you will get yourself in my shoes and end up taking more than you can tolerate comfortably. And then that stress starts to work against your progress some, and your health. My lipids were awful on it, despite some of the healthiest eating & most cardio of the entire year. I was doing almost 6 hours of LISS a week and cals down to 2,200-2,400 (at ~4,000 currently).

Dien is truly like a cross between Tren and nandrolone. Wetter and milder than Tren but less watery and more aggressive than nandrolone per mg. I’d treat usage like Tren: If the goal is getting leaner/harder, I’d keep other drugs like test lower and use the dien primarily to recomp while you cut (that’s what I was doing, went from 248 to 231 while gaining muscle and some strength over 3 months). But if you really want to grow, keep the dien dose low as an accessory to things like test/nandrolone/eq/primo/mast that you would push up over time. I’m talking like ~200mg/wk of dien. It kinda hurt my appetite.
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
350mg/wk will be a great, effective dose. I pinned 400mg for 5 weeks & then 500mg/wk for another 4 weeks of Dien Enanthate. After factoring loss due to ester weight, 350 ace and 400 e would be extremely comparable doses - 400/wk of e actually was plenty, and 500 felt like too much gas for my liking. 400 did everything I could have hoped for and I won’t exceed that again. This was atop 210mg test e/wk.

Honestly, I would consider starting a little lighter, like 75mg eod. You really don’t want to use static doses throughout a cycle; better to start lighter and titrate the dose up slowly as new tissue is added and more gas is required to keep progress going. So if you start too high, you will get yourself in my shoes and end up taking more than you can tolerate comfortably. And then that stress starts to work against your progress some, and your health. My lipids were awful on it, despite some of the healthiest eating & most cardio of the entire year. I was doing almost 6 hours of LISS a week and cals down to 2,200-2,400 (at ~4,000 currently).

Dien is truly like a cross between Tren and nandrolone. Wetter and milder than Tren but less watery and more aggressive than nandrolone per mg. I’d treat usage like Tren: If the goal is getting leaner/harder, I’d keep other drugs like test lower and use the dien primarily to recomp while you cut (that’s what I was doing, went from 248 to 231 while gaining muscle and some strength over 3 months). But if you really want to grow, keep the dien dose low as an accessory to things like test/nandrolone/eq/primo/mast that you would push up over time. I’m talking like ~200mg/wk of dien. It kinda hurt my appetite.
Awesome, will start at 75mg EOD. What kind of mental side effects did you experience at that 200-300mg dosage. Anything similar to that of tren?
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I felt really good on it. I would say the best of any cycle probably ever, even dealing with the stress of a very pregnant wife about to burst. Although at 500mg of enanthate it really began to mess with my sleep some; that was the main side - pinning your ace earlier in the day should bypass that issue nicely though if you notice it (since you won’t have stable high levels 24/7 like on e).

I was exhausted from dieting, work, life, and think: this is the week I have to wave my training back, no way can I progress any further this week. And then I would lift and still pull off more weight or volume every week despite the deficit.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
TLDR; good well-being, no big aggression spike or paranoia or anything like Tren can give some.

Also, seriously distracting libido. Be ready for that; just like Tren it’s hard to finish even though you need to more than ever
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
TLDR; good well-being, no big aggression spike or paranoia or anything like Tren can give some.

Also, seriously distracting libido. Be ready for that; just like Tren it’s hard to finish even though you need to more than ever
Haha hell ya, seriously thank you for the responses my brotha. I’m very excited to try it!
 
Bigmatt57

Bigmatt57

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
May have not been the dien at all, I’ve done two injections so far, but last night didn’t get to sleep until 5am. Luckily not working today.
 

Similar threads


Top