First run ?

Studhorse

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I have a friend that wants to do a cycle. need some advice.
He is 55 years old about 5', 10" and weights 170. Runs 5 miles a day. (for the first year at the gym I would see him run on the treadmill for a long ass time) and play with the weights.
He started lifting about 6 months ago pretty into it and asking for advise, I made him up a workout and he is pretty motivated. I even let him work in with me some times.(don't like partners they always end up letting you down when you get dependent on them)

His son left for the military and had some un-open supps left in his room. his son told him he could have them. this is the list he gave me.
Ostra Shred, Olypus labs 4-andro elite (90 caps)
looked these up on the internet.

I'm thinking
Ostra shred 25/25/25/25/25/25/25/25 (these are 12.5 caps with some light anti estrogen.)
4 andro 330/330/330/330 (spread out ) First 4 weeks
Transdermal Trest 50-75MG per day Last 4 weeks. 25ml. AM / 50ml. pre-workout (maybe just 25/25 on off days)

exemestane on hand.

PCT. Novla 20/20/10/10

after the 4 weeks of novla maybe invictus / virtus for 4 weeks?

let the suggestions fly.
 
Studhorse

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bighulksmash Brandinooooo hairygrandpa Jebrook SFreed Sparkss thebigt FireTitan HIT4ME lifted67 smith_69 Tank999 ChocolateClen
 
hairygrandpa

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Obviously in bro!

What will it be: cut, bulk, recomp?

IMHO, TD Trest is fugging awesome!
 
Studhorse

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Obviously in bro!

What will it be: cut, bulk, recomp?

IMHO, TD Trest is fugging awesome!
Good Question. Bulk/ recomp. He is kind of skinny. likes to run distance and looks like it. but has kind of clinged to me since we are both old ****ers in the gym:) and he thinks I'm big and wants to look like me. I told him I have been lifting for 35+years and I'm naturally chubby.
 
Studhorse

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Also he has already upped his calories and Protein. Gave him a make shift diet but his wife does all the cooking and she is skinny. we will see how that goes? also told him to lay off the cardio a bit.
 
Studhorse

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Obviously in bro!

What will it be: cut, bulk, recomp?

IMHO, TD Trest is fugging awesome!
You like the TD Trest? I have read some really good things on it. that why I was maybe suggesting using that instead of the 4-AD he already has for the last 4 weeks. should be a good test base. I have also read some good thinks on older guys and 4-AD.
 
smith_69

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for the pct-

maybe adding in clom might help or to at least have, other wise above looks good

know people have also used IL v kt with pretty good results- 1.5- 2 ml dose

what sort of diet is he on? also, any issues with BP or other health issues?
 
booneman77

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he's only been lifting for 6mo? don't cycle at all. let the noob gains flooowwww
 
Studhorse

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for the pct-

maybe adding in clom might help or to at least have, other wise above looks good

know people have also used IL v kt with pretty good results- 1.5- 2 ml dose

what sort of diet is he on? also, any issues with BP or other health issues?
Says he is healthy as a lark and has a physical every year. He looks in really good shape. already talked to him about his diet. he doesn't think that is working fast enough. but like i said he was a distance runner for years i'm assuming. He always has a t-shirt on that is from some kind of a running event.
 
Studhorse

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he's only been lifting for 6mo? don't cycle at all. let the noob gains flooowwww
That is what I told him, but he insisted on using the stuff he had. I guess inpatient.
 
Studhorse

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for the pct-

maybe adding in clom might help or to at least have, other wise above looks good

know people have also used IL v kt with pretty good results- 1.5- 2 ml dose

what sort of diet is he on? also, any issues with BP or other health issues?
so he should take clomid and novla for PH's and SARM?
 
bighulksmash

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4ad then osta then pct ....

dont even let him trest yet lmao he will be humping the couch
 
Tank999

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I have personal experience with osta shred - was solid for me, but definitely supressive. Mid range Clomid or similar should do.
 
Tank999

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I may be off base but i would open with the osta for 2 weeks then kick in the andro. That worked for me....
 
Sparkss

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he's only been lifting for 6mo? don't cycle at all. let the noob gains flooowwww
That is what I told him, but he insisted on using the stuff he had. I guess inpatient.
I can understand being impatient, but I have to agree, that even though he is a bit older than most newb lifters, he should try some of the natty supps/staple supps to see how far he can go. My favorite is Anabeta Elite (for bulking natty). Having just started TRT myself (endo inserted pellets yesterday) I am still considering sticking with my non-PH supps for a good bit.

On that point, does he know what his #s are? (any recent blood work?). That should be done, especially at his age, before starting any cycles (IMO). Sorry to be such a nay-sayer.
 
hairygrandpa

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My son is currently bulking. As he has trouble to eat more, I bought more milk and advised him to drink at least half a gallon of milk/day, preparing his post-shake with milk too.
So far he is doing good, weight is climbing up little -by little.
Not using hormonal stuff, just BPS Laxacrine TD and IL- Virtus.
 
hairygrandpa

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You like the TD Trest? I have read some really good things on it. that why I was maybe suggesting using that instead of the 4-AD he already has for the last 4 weeks. should be a good test base. I have also read some good thinks on older guys and 4-AD.
Trest is a serious steroid, IMHO -and will shut him down for sure, A Serm will be needed later on.
If he really wants to go the hormonal road he better stays with beginner stuff for his first cycle, just my opinion.
 
Studhorse

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I can understand being impatient, but I have to agree, that even though he is a bit older than most newb lifters, he should try some of the natty supps/staple supps to see how far he can go. My favorite is Anabeta Elite (for bulking natty). Having just started TRT myself (endo inserted pellets yesterday) I am still considering sticking with my non-PH supps for a good bit.

On that point, does he know what his #s are? (any recent blood work?). That should be done, especially at his age, before starting any cycles (IMO). Sorry to be such a nay-sayer.
Understand Completely. That was what I originally told him. thought i would run it by you guys to get some feed back.
 
Studhorse

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Trest is a serious steroid, IMHO -and will shut him down for sure, A Serm will be needed later on.
If he really wants to go the hormonal road he better stays with beginner stuff for his first cycle, just my opinion.
I threw the trest in to test the waters:) I know he will need a test base for the MK-2866 so may have him get a 2nd bottle of 4AD and start that 2 weeks in as suggested by TANK. will really try to get him to hold off and let him run some natty stuff for awhile. I think he is due for a physical at the end of the year. he can find his blood work from last year. I will tell him to get a panel for estrogen as well as test and all the normal stuff..
 
SFreed

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In, not because I can help Studhorse, but because I'm looking for suggestions for a first cycle as well.
 
Studhorse

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In, not because I can help Studhorse, but because I'm looking for suggestions for a first cycle as well.
I know the more I'm on this board the more I'm thinking of going to the DARK SIDE:) Maybe I can tell him he cant use it and buy it from him?
 

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Id prefer to run the 4 at 220mg for six weeks myself, if I were in the same boat (andro newb). Should still be adequate to deal with ostar lethargy, and the dose is a tad more manageable. Not a major either way.

And yeah, six months? I wont judge:D
 
Studhorse

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Id prefer to run the 4 at 220mg for six weeks myself, if I were in the same boat (andro newb). Should still be adequate to deal with ostar lethargy, and the dose is a tad more manageable. Not a major either way.

And yeah, six months? I wont judge:D
Thanks brother
 
hairygrandpa

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I know the more I'm on this board the more I'm thinking of going to the DARK SIDE:) Maybe I can tell him he cant use it and buy it from him?
Hahaha! GET THE TREST!
 
thebigt

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osta and 4-ad is more than enough for a noob.

focus on a really comprehensive pct including serm.
 
Studhorse

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osta and 4-ad is more than enough for a noob.

focus on a really comprehensive pct including serm.
focus on a really comprehensive pct ? suggestions
 
saywutrly

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I know the more I'm on this board the more I'm thinking of going to the DARK SIDE:)
This forum convinced me to go to the dark dark side. I love it. Pinning feels so much better than PHs, as in feeling much healthier and balanced.


Id prefer to run the 4 at 220mg for six weeks myself, if I were in the same boat (andro newb). Should still be adequate to deal with ostar lethargy, and the dose is a tad more manageable. Not a major either way.

And yeah, six months? I wont judge:D
I second this. I ended up bringing my 4andro down to 200mg during my first andro cycle while leaving the epiandro I stacked it with nice and high. It felt a lot better and caused harder, drier progress while helping the pocketbook.

focus on a really comprehensive pct ? suggestions
Torem or clomid/nolva combo with exemestane at a low dose. I'm one of the oddballs who likes Torem. For me, the side effect profile is better and that PCT felt better even though I did stronger compounds that time. Some will suggest to throw in a natty test booster. I don't always, but it never hurts if you can find a good deal on one. My favorite for PCT is MAN sports Nolvadren stacked with Delta XT. You can usually find this combo on a crazy discount and it incorporates cortisol control, which I value very much. Serious Nutrition Solutions also has one that I've heard good things about.

Personally, I'd save the money from the natty test booster and invest it in some MK677 for PCT. This can be run low (10mg) in most folks to start and has numerous benefits for PCT including increased hunger, improved sleep, and directly helping one keep their gains by influencing GH release.
 
ChocolateClen

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Don't have him lay off the cardio, cardio keeps you from feeling like **** I've found and it's a pain in the ass to regain. I'd just have him up his calories and keep the cardio where it is since he enjoys it. It'll help keep him in the gym too.
 
yates84

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bighulksmash Brandinooooo hairygrandpa Jebrook SFreed Sparkss thebigt FireTitan HIT4ME lifted67 smith_69 Tank999 ChocolateClen
I feel left out :(
 
yates84

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Yeah I'm surprised I was tagged and not you! You know 100x more than I do
All solid advice given so that's great for the op. I just gotta throw my post in lol
 
SFreed

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Stupid question, but I wish there was someplace (legit) a person could go and buy everything needed for a complete run. It seems like the more I read, and the more I study, the more confused I get. Is there a "First Run for Dummies" website?? I would imagine there is.
 
ChocolateClen

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Stupid question, but I wish there was someplace (legit) a person could go and buy everything needed for a complete run. It seems like the more I read, and the more I study, the more confused I get. Is there a "First Run for Dummies" website?? I would imagine there is.
Let's make one. We'd have millions of hits
 
saywutrly

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Let's make one. We'd have millions of hits
Yeah, from the DEA. If you sell legal PH and DS as supplements, they're for human consumption. You then can't sell SERMs and pharma AIs on the same site, because you get away with selling them for research purposes and not for human consumption. If you sell that all on the same site, the man can easily make a case that it's all intended for human use. That's a federal case, also, so even with good behavior you will do 85% of your sentence.
 
bighulksmash

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Yeah, from the DEA. If you sell legal PH and DS as supplements, they're for human consumption. You then can't sell SERMs and pharma AIs on the same site, because you get away with selling them for research purposes and not for human consumption. If you sell that all on the same site, the man can easily make a case that it's all intended for human use. That's a federal case, also, so even with good behavior you will do 85% of your sentence.
Federal crimes usually start around 10 years for just 1 count of d o c s / schedule 3 i might add ...
 
saywutrly

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Federal crimes usually start around 10 years for just 1 count of d o c s / schedule 3 i might add ...
This man knows what I'm talking about. Let us not forget that they will also hit you with a count of mislabeling drugs for not having all the proper labeling for human consumption and another for introducing misbranded drugs into interstate commerce since it was done on a website.
 
yates84

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Federal crimes usually start around 10 years for just 1 count of d o c s / schedule 3 i might add ...
My first offer from the feds on a plea bargain was 25 years and it was for some dumb sh1t...
 
Brandinooooo

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In, not because I can help Studhorse, but because I'm looking for suggestions for a first cycle as well.
IMO, if he wants to go the hormonal route, and I think I suggest this to you as well ^^^, Test or 4-ad. Either of those would have you feeling fantastic.
 
saywutrly

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My first offer from the feds on a plea bargain was 25 years and it was for some dumb sh1t...
Damn, bro. We you were able to get that down to something more reasonable? I was so beyond happy when the feds didn't pick up my case. The state sent it to them but they didn't have enough evidence for the fed charges. I think my balls were up hiding behind my bladder that whole month I was so on edge.
 
smith_69

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Yeah, from the DEA. If you sell legal PH and DS as supplements, they're for human consumption. You then can't sell SERMs and pharma AIs on the same site, because you get away with selling them for research purposes and not for human consumption. If you sell that all on the same site, the man can easily make a case that it's all intended for human use. That's a federal case, also, so even with good behavior you will do 85% of your sentence.
i guess that explains why one store isnt here anymore
 
bighulksmash

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My first offer from the feds on a plea bargain was 25 years and it was for some dumb sh1t...
Holy **** I never knew you did time !
A single vial of test or even a sample pack of ds can land someone in for half a dime.
 
ChocolateClen

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Yeah, from the DEA. If you sell legal PH and DS as supplements, they're for human consumption. You then can't sell SERMs and pharma AIs on the same site, because you get away with selling them for research purposes and not for human consumption. If you sell that all on the same site, the man can easily make a case that it's all intended for human use. That's a federal case, also, so even with good behavior you will do 85% of your sentence.
Oh well rip to that idea then
 
ChocolateClen

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Holy **** I never knew you did time !
A single vial of test or even a sample pack of ds can land someone in for half a dime.
Oh **** man I thought as long as it was for personal use you were pretty much all right....
 
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Brandinooooo

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Oh **** man I thought as long as it was for personal use you were pretty much all right....
For Drugs, thats right to an extent. Every drug has a legal personal use amount. Not sure about roids though.
 
ChocolateClen

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For Drugs, thats right to an extent. Every drug has a legal personal use amount. Not sure about roids though.
Guess I need to go buy a safe vice storing my stuff in protein containers.
 
bighulksmash

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For Drugs, thats right to an extent. Every drug has a legal personal use amount. Not sure about roids though.
That's the messed up part of the situation it goes by schedule each schedule has its own written set of rules for that specific substance any substance relating to looking like or exhibiting the same characteristics is penalized by the same laws. Federal law states any person in possession of any substance is punishable buy no more than 25 years and no less than 10 years in a federal penitentiary I don't know why this is so steep even for first offenders rarely get off with less than 7.5 years to serve I think that's close to 75% of 10 years there's no such thing as good behavior in federal prison.
 
bighulksmash

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There's always going to be quality sources out there so don't worry yourselves if you look hard enough on your own without asking any of the members here eventually we'll find something we all have to be Christopher Columbus in our own way.
 

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