First PH cycle with HDROL

My sleeping is getting a bit screwy. It was like this before I started the last few months (and I've had sleeping troubles in the past) but has been a bit worse since starting. I wake up briefly during the night a few times especially after workout days it seems. I've started going to bed earlier, stopped playing video games and watching tv late and just listen to classical music to calm down a bit before hitting the sack and that helps a bit, but it does seem like more focus to get my proper sleep in. So far no biggie. I still feel well rested the next day and have energy to work and workout...just weird. Last night I forgot to drink lots of water in the evening and woke up thirsty in the middle of the night and went for a drink before going back to sleep. Gonna keep some water by my bed during the night going forward. I wake up feeling a little warm and restless, but not too bad. I chalk it up to my own sleeping disorder and not the H-drol though. I think the H-drol might exacerbate it, but not cause it. Anyone else have trouble sleeping while ON?

On another note I powered thru a chest workout yesterday and set new goals again. Surprised myself with my bench. The heaving eating is paying off. Weighed in at almost 205 this morning.

I'm eating the same food pretty much, but more of it. Extra 1/2 cup of oatmeal here, extra large protein shake there and slightly larger meals. I am focusing on getting more of my protein from solid sources too. Snack on brown rice and veggies at times...that kinda thing. All in all I am eating about 500-1000 calories extra per day I would estimate. I may have added a bit of fat, but not much and it seems to be helping my strength. To be fair I did a natty bulk last year and noticed my strength go up after I started increasing my food intake too.

FYI, this is day 10

BD
 
Bry17 said:
Same here.
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Yeah, I've noticed that if I dose earlier it is better. I dose at 5:30 though. I try to dose as soon as I wake at 630ish, so maybe I'll push my 2nd dose up a bit earlier. Also I kinda think my cycle assist or multiple which I take around 8:30 might be the culprit. Sometimes multis have Stims.

Question...does timing my h- drol before my workout have any impact on gym intensity?
 
BURNT DICE said:
Question...does timing my h- drol before my workout have any impact on gym intensity?
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I wouldn't think so. It has long activity after a single dose, so even a morning dose would have a similar effect as Pre-WO. Don't confuse that with H-drol not affecting gym intensity (because it does), it just isn't really time dependent with respect to dosing.
 
Bry17 said:
I wouldn't think so. It has long activity after a single dose, so even a morning dose would have a similar effect as Pre-WO. Don't confuse that with H-drol not affecting gym intensity (because it does), it just isn't really time dependent with respect to dosing.
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I was just wondering if since I take my morning dose at around 6:30am and work-out at ~6:00PM (almost 12 hours), if maybe the half life has passed at that point and perhaps I should dose earlier than the 15 minutes before I workout, like I do now. Maybe like 1-2 hours before I workout instead. Just wondering if 11.5 hours is too long and 15 minutes before is too short to get the most out of it. But perhaps it makes no difference at all still?

BTW, slept pretty decent last night. Was up once or twice but quickly feel back asleep and prob got close to 7 hrs total. Except for that one night the night before last I am actually finding my body is wanting more sleep as it goes on, not less.

Bit under the weather yesterday and today. Hit the dentist today and will again tomorrow. FUN! Thinking of skipping my workout tonight to make sure my body is not over taxed from the workouts and dental work combined with feeling a bit run down. Not too bad, but the last thing in the world I want at this point is to get really sick. Dental work aside, how do you guys handle it if you are under the weather when ON. Do you play it safe, or tough out your workouts to make sure you still get through them. Fortunately for me I am only a little run down and it is still only day 11...better than if it was day 25 or something.
 
BURNT DICE said:
I was just wondering if since I take my morning dose at around 6:30am and work-out at ~6:00PM (almost 12 hours), if maybe the half life has passed at that point and perhaps I should dose earlier than the 15 minutes before I workout, like I do now. Maybe like 1-2 hours before I workout instead. Just wondering if 11.5 hours is too long and 15 minutes before is too short to get the most out of it. But perhaps it makes no difference at all still?
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The half life might have passed..but that doesn't mean the other half has passed. It will be active in your system for at least 24 hours per 25mg dose. Either way you should still take your last dose before workout. Try 30-45 minutes before.
 
BURNT DICE said:
I was just wondering if since I take my morning dose at around 6:30am and work-out at ~6:00PM (almost 12 hours), if maybe the half life has passed at that point and perhaps I should dose earlier than the 15 minutes before I workout, like I do now. Maybe like 1-2 hours before I workout instead. Just wondering if 11.5 hours is too long and 15 minutes before is too short to get the most out of it. But perhaps it makes no difference at all still?

BTW, slept pretty decent last night. Was up once or twice but quickly feel back asleep and prob got close to 7 hrs total. Except for that one night the night before last I am actually finding my body is wanting more sleep as it goes on, not less.

Bit under the weather yesterday and today. Hit the dentist today and will again tomorrow. FUN! Thinking of skipping my workout tonight to make sure my body is not over taxed from the workouts and dental work combined with feeling a bit run down. Not too bad, but the last thing in the world I want at this point is to get really sick. Dental work aside, how do you guys handle it if you are under the weather when ON. Do you play it safe, or tough out your workouts to make sure you still get through them. Fortunately for me I am only a little run down and it is still only day 11...better than if it was day 25 or something.
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if your feeling rundown, rest. when im rundown physically, I call it day. one day of rest is not a waste on cycle. dental work sometimes makes me feel like crap and all i want to do is sleep lol
 
fightclub2012 said:
if your feeling rundown, rest. when im rundown physically, I call it day. one day of rest is not a waste on cycle. dental work sometimes makes me feel like crap and all i want to do is sleep lol
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You're right FC.

Today is supposed to be Day 1 of my workout regime, but this morning I am stuffy and feeling rundown again after my second day in a row of dental work and 3 hard days of pushing it in the gym while not feeling 100%. I got OK sleep last night but did feel like I could have slept more when I woke, which usually isn't the case. When I am not ON I would always skip a day like this but since I am ...I was debating it, but yeah, you're right, I'm gonna get back to full energy and pound it starting tomorrow instead, rather than continue to kick myself when I am already down.

Hey a tip for those who get sick. there are a lot of myths about what will actually help boost your immune system and products that do Jack-$417. But I did some research and read a really great article in Men's health that said there are 5 known natural remedies that are proven to help. They are, not including rest and fluids of course:

Green tea
Probiotic enriched yogurt
Garlic
Mushrooms (cooked only for some reason...has to do with B vitamins)
fish oil

FYI,
BD
 
I'm getting ready to take stakabol for the first time. Other than 1000 of milk thistle a day, and a 20 20 10 10 10 PCT of nolvadex or some chlomid PCT is there anything else I need to take during cycle?? 42 yo newbie. 210. 6 foot. Thanks for ur help.
 
Normanxxx said:
I'm getting ready to take stakabol for the first time. Other than 1000 of milk thistle a day, and a 20 20 10 10 10 PCT of nolvadex or some chlomid PCT is there anything else I need to take during cycle?? 42 yo newbie. 210. 6 foot. Thanks for ur help.
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I'm pretty newbie too so take my opinion for what it's worth, but, with respect, it sounds to me like you need to do some more reading first. If you're asking if you need anything more than milk thistle for an on cycle oral, that tells me you need to learn more first. I was not familiar with Stakabol, so I looked it up on the site and see that it is a multiple methylated stack which from what I've read is not a good idea.

If I were you though, I'd start a new thread in the manufacturers forum and search around a bit more. You'll get better feedback too as people aren't going to look in this H-drol thread to help people with Stakabol I would think. Good luck to you!

BD
 
BURNT DICE said:
You're right FC.

Today is supposed to be Day 1 of my workout regime, but this morning I am stuffy and feeling rundown again after my second day in a row of dental work and 3 hard days of pushing it in the gym while not feeling 100%. I got OK sleep last night but did feel like I could have slept more when I woke, which usually isn't the case. When I am not ON I would always skip a day like this but since I am ...I was debating it, but yeah, you're right, I'm gonna get back to full energy and pound it starting tomorrow instead, rather than continue to kick myself when I am already down.

Hey a tip for those who get sick. there are a lot of myths about what will actually help boost your immune system and products that do Jack-$417. But I did some research and read a really great article in Men's health that said there are 5 known natural remedies that are proven to help. They are, not including rest and fluids of course:

Green tea
Probiotic enriched yogurt
Garlic
Mushrooms (cooked only for some reason...has to do with B vitamins)
fish oil

FYI,
BD
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cool, what ever happened to echinacea lol
 
At best, unproven,lol. Still 10 post short of posting links, but it was men's journal "winterize your immune system". Green tea is a big one I find and I dropped coffee after 15 yes of daily consumption for h- drol recently (BP and hydration). One advantage of coffee though...it cleanses the liver! Hm...wonder if decaf counts....
 
Day 14

Ahhh...what a difference a day makes. Feel much improved today! Glad I took that advice and got some much needed rest. Ready to get back in the gym. Feeling the last few days like my muscles might be getting a bit harder. It will be interesting to see what I lift today. I guess it should really start to kick in soon. Unfortunately I have to watch the little one while the wife goes out to dinner so it's a basement workout and no spotter on the bench. Oh well...I'll hammer the rest of the stuff. Didn't weigh myself today but feeling a bit bloated after two days of not working out. Should I be tossing in a little bit of light cardio now and then maybe?
 
I understand that hdrol is great for recomp so why not alittle cardio?

One day of complete rest makes a big difference when your sick...
 
Hookset said:
I understand that hdrol is great for recomp so why not alittle cardio?

One day of complete rest makes a big difference when your sick...
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That's a good question. I'm still up in the air bout that one. LOL, you'd think I'd know the answer to that one by now, right! But, I've been thinking about taking a wait and see approach a bit. While I am not crazy about gaining as much muscle as possible I also want to make sure that I get tangible growth from H-drol. I don't want to get to the end of the road and only be up a few pounds of LBM after all the expense, effort and risk. So, we'll see. if i start packing it on fast I probably will steer myself towards more of a recomp. If not I will bulk and take off the fat after my PCT. I'm pretty good at losing the fat, gaining the muscle has been the traditional cahllenge for me. Pretty sure i will know the answer to that soon though! I start my first 75 dose tomorrow. I'm hoping that it does pack on fast so that I can kill two birds with one stone and take your advice and throw in some extra cardio (I like some cardio), drop the cals a bit and head into my PCT lean. That would be convenient for sure! We'll see how I respond first I guess. Thanks for the thought!
 
I keep hearing 75 is the "sweet spot".

I have 3 bottles stored away, just waiting on the right time to pull the trigger.
 
You got me thinking now. Been looking around and I see some people say that you SHOULD do lots of cardio on PH's. Can I get some more people to weigh in...should I be doing lots of cardio during my cycle. I basically stopped once I started preloading but typically do lots. Should I dig the running shoes back out?
 
BURNT DICE said:
You got me thinking now. Been looking around and I see some people say that you SHOULD do lots of cardio on PH's. Can I get some more people to weigh in...should I be doing lots of cardio during my cycle. I basically stopped once I started preloading but typically do lots. Should I dig the running shoes back out?
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it all depends on your goals and diet, hdrol is great for recomping or lean bulking, remember bro we all respond differently to ph's, exercise, diet and supplements, for me(on cycle) I didnt change my cardio frequency, I was concentrating on growing, lifting heavier etc. which I did and lost some bf along the way. imo dont go balls out on cardio, keep it real, in other words try not to get your bpm to 180-190 lol.
 
Yeah, that's been my rationale too. Typically when I want to grow, I eat slightly hypocaloric, lift more and heavier weights and cut back on cardio. Then, when I am tired of if and start to plateau I shorten my weight sessions,add in cardio and drop the cals a bit to shed the 5-10 lbs I gained along the way. Anyway, point is that works for me, so why reinvent the wheel. Makes sense.
 
thats key bd, knowing and listening to your body, what works and what doesnt, knowing when to change your routine and adjusting your diet accordingly to that change. on cycle you get to push your self quite a bit more so keep that in mind, but dont go hurting your self lol warm up properly, stretch, you know what you gotta do bro.
 
DAY 17

Weight = 208.8 lbs

When I look in the mirror I just look bigger IMO. The last 3-4 days I've seen things speed up. I called the wife into the bathroom this morning and said, "Hey, is it me or am I in fact getting bigger?" She looked me over had me do a spin and said, "Yeah, with your chest... it's hard to tell, but I would say that your shoulders and back are bigger...yeah, definitely". I thought the same. I also think my Bi's, a notorious rough spot for me, feel a bit bigger too. I think SOME of it is fat. I started at about 200, and by my estimate i would say 2-4 pounds is fat and 4-6 pounds is muscle. I've been bulking. I eat mid morning and mid-aft light meals. At minimum I will put about a half a cup of oatmeal in my mid morning shake. Some days I will drink a protein shake and eat about 1.5 cups of brown rice mixed with "6 bean blend" beans and some olive oil. I try to get healthy fat/carbs/protein in all my meals and mini meals. As a general rule I try to eat solid protein at meals, and shakes in between. Sometimes I forget to drink water but it doesn't take logng for my body to remind me. If i don't get it I start getting classic dehydration signs, fatigue and dryness. Overall I've been good and drinking about a gallon a day.

I THINK I might be starting to get back pumps. Not sure. I don't get a pumping feeling per se, but my lower back will kind of ache and feel weak, just started the last couple days though and might be because 2 days ago was squats and yesterday was back day. Yesterday when i was doing my bent over rows my back really ached. Could just be a fatigued back from the squats the day before though. It was tolerable but made the sets uncomfortable. I took some Taurine for the first time this morning.

Sleep is still a bit disrupted, but i don't feel bad. I only got 6 hours last night, but napped for about an hour yesterday aft. Again, I don't think H-drol caused this, but made my preexisting sleeping troubles a bit worse. So far, it's fine though. Throughout the day i don't feel lethargic, yet anyway. I have sleeping pills (Lunesta - Doctor prescribed) but I weaned myself away from them prior to the cycle to keep my body as clean as possible while ON. If my sleeping gets really screwy I might try taking some, but at this point they are not needed so i will avoid.

The gym...I won't bore you with numbers. I am stronger and feel like I could work out longer. My gym clothes are tighter and I feel like I get a bigger pump after sets. notable area's area's are Bent Rows, Bicep Curls, Bench and Squats. Come to think of it, just about every plateau has already been cleared. I track all my stuff online. I couild send a link, but it would blow my cover :147: Maybe I'll post my major lifting stats towards the end if anyone wants to see the cold hard figures.

I have made the decision to stay at 50mg for week 3. I say this as I am seeing good gains right now. I'm going to follow the medical tenet of MED (Minimum Effective Dose). If I am gaining weight well at this point at only 50mg, I figure, why go up to 75? My goal is to try to gain 7lbs of muscle and knowing that my best gains are likely ahead of me, I figure I am ahead of schedule. If I stall I'll up it. Otherwise, I'd rather minimize my sides and potentially have doses for another run in the future. If I get blood work post PCT that says I've recovered fine I might do this again.

If I continue to gain well this week I think I might switch to cut/recomp mode for the rest of the cycle. I'll have met my LBM goal and it would be nice to shed a bit of fat before heading into my PCT as come PCT I def WON'T want to cut. Hedge my bets if you will. Phew, that was a mouthful, show me some love and gimme some feedback!
:biglaugh:
 
Awesome log going here...

I like your overall thinking, not just going in and blindly following some preset strategy.
As I stated already you have a good handle on gaging how your body reacts to different thing and how to adjust.

Keep the info coming as I should be ready to start my run in a few weeks.

Fightclub2012 has some good insight as well. I've seen him offer input in other posts and it seems well thought out and knowledgable.

Keep up the good work...
 
Hookset said:
Awesome log going here...

I like your overall thinking, not just going in and blindly following some preset strategy.
As I stated already you have a good handle on gaging how your body reacts to different thing and how to adjust.

Keep the info coming as I should be ready to start my run in a few weeks.

Fightclub2012 has some good insight as well. I've seen him offer input in other posts and it seems well thought out and knowledgable.

Keep up the good work...
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thanks bro, here at am we tell it like it is, from experience, and we're always learning from each other.
 
DAY 21

209-210 lbs

Ok, well there is little doubt that the H-drol has kicked in for real this time. In earlier posts I sensed that something was going on, but there is no mistaking the difference now, I'm clearly stronger. I feel a bit silly looking back at earlier comments. Day 15 waas when it really started to happen, but the first time I really noticed it for sure was on day 18 just after my last post when I did a bench day. I added 10 pounds to my usual bench and it went up with ease. I cranked out 8 reps @ 235, but probably could have gone to 245. Tomorrow is my next bench day and will put 245 on to start and see how that goes. I do my weights a bit different than most I think. I do an upside down pyramid. I warm up with a short light weight, then go to my highest weight and work my way down. So my 4th and final set on the bench was 225 x 6 where normally that would be about my starting set ..to give you an idea of the improvement. While I get sore from chest/tri day, my legs are fine the day after. I think I need to quickly find a way to really hammer my legs at this crucial time to get the most out of it. In general that is true too. I'm realizing pretty quick that I have to push myself a bit more while I can. I do most of the staple compounds stuff already (Bench, Military, Pullups, Bent Rows, Squats, etc..) but I think I need to add in some extra stuff at the tail end of my workouts to really fatigue everything.

Still no significant sides, but a couple things I MAY be noticing. It could be in my head but my liver might be a little bit swollen/stressed. It doesn't hurt and isn't uncomfortable, but I just feel like I can feel it under there. Again, it could be in my head and is subtle, but we all know that H-drol is very rough on the liver so I will be monitoring that. I feel fine though. I still have loose laxative craps. Not diarrhea, but loose like I drank the night before or something. When i have to go I definitely don't want to hold it either. I kinda wonder if the loose craps are from the CA and not the H-drol too. It's not bad though. Water intake is "OK" but maybe I need to up it. Sleep isn't great, but I am getting by ok. Prob 6-6.5 hrs a night. I do my best, but my body just doesn't want to sleep that long. I don't feel tired or lethargic at all either. I wake up ready to go and have had good energy in the gym. I have the next 3 days off so I am going to nap during the days a bit if my body wants to. Anyway, too much time talking about sides, really there is no problem so far. I'm just hyper sensitive.

While my strength is continuing to go up my weight might be stabilizing a bit. I was 210 yesterday but back down to 209 today. I have lightened up a bit on the calories the last few days too and think I might have lost a touch of fat and gained a touch of muscle is all. Tiny recomp the last few days maybe. I went to 75 mg for the first time today (6 days late). I think my body might be adjusting to 50. I am tolerating H-drol pretty good I think so I think now is the time to up it so that I can get the most out of it with 2 weeks left. There is a chance I could do 6 weeks (3 more weeks), but I really don't want to on a methylated compound.We'll see. Conversely, now that I am at 75, if I get to the end of this week and feel rough, I might just stop at 4 weeks, take the money and run. But for now, I feel very good! I think I am going up at about the right time. Could have done it a few days earlier, but I'm happy with my decision to wait a bit longer.

Hm, anything else??? Can't think of anything. Any questions? Hey Turboflex, you still following, notice anything on your end yet?
 
Thanks for the detailed update. It sounds like this stuff is working well for you.

I'm getting all my support supps lined up to start my run. This log is giving me some great insight to prepare.

Thanks again...
 
Getting everything lined up is VIP. It took almost 7 weeks to get my Nolva. I didn't think it was going to come! Been reading a lot about torem. Might have been a better choice, but novla is tried and true also. Read a couple scary gyno threads. One thing I might splurge on just to be safe is to have some letro on hand. It's pricey though. I'm lucky that I have some cash to spare though. Might have to hunt around for some sources.
 
BURNT DICE said:
Getting everything lined up is VIP. It took almost 7 weeks to get my Nolva. I didn't think it was going to come! Been reading a lot about torem. Might have been a better choice, but novla is tried and true also. Read a couple scary gyno threads. One thing I might splurge on just to be safe is to have some letro on hand. It's pricey though. I'm lucky that I have some cash to spare though. Might have to hunt around for some sources.
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Torem is my fav, clomid would be my second choice, nolva 3rd *.
5 or 6 weeks at 75mg is safe, letro is good for gyno on cycle or off , but with hdrol from my experience and others that shouldnt be an issue, hdrol doesnt aromatize.
 
Yeah...some guy in the anabolic forum was trying to tell me that 50% of guys he knew who took hdrol got gyno. Actually at first he said everyone, I asked him to clarify and he said, ok, at least 50%. Was spreading some other BS too. That's one reason you gotta read so much...to sort out the fact from the BS. Freaked me out a bit tho.
 
BURNT DICE said:
Yeah...some guy in the anabolic forum was trying to tell me that 50% of guys he knew who took hdrol got gyno. Actually at first he said everyone, I asked him to clarify and he said, ok, at least 50%. Was spreading some other BS too. That's one reason you gotta read so much...to sort out the fact from the BS. Freaked me out a bit tho.
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lol well I thought most guys here tell it like it is from experience , hes one of the few that doesnt have a clue of what hes talking about, you have to filter out the bs, 50% give me an effing break where did get that crap from bb.com
 
You've tried all 3 those SERMs, huh!?! I know everyone is diff, but can I ask your impression of each. Why is torem your favorite?
 
Update

OK, so I have a problem/dilemma. My loose craps have gotten worse and I would now classify as diarrhea. I noticed after about the first week or so. The problem worsening also seemed to coincide with when I upped my dose from 50-75 mg/day. Today is day 23 unfortunately and the benefits of Hdrol are around at their peak i figure.My strength is way up so I don't want to stop now, but at the same time, maybe better safe than sorry.

I did some googling and searching thru the forums, but don't see a lot of info on H-drol and diarrhea. I have some some info that said that orals can cause it.

Can someone give me an idea of if this is somewhat common and perhaps what I should do. I bought some Kaopectate and Imodium this morning. I took the Kaopectate a couple hours ago. I just had a bit more diarrhea, but it may not have had time to take effect yet.

Thanks!

BD
 
hdrol is making you so dry, that all the water from your joints is being resorbed into your large intestine causing your massive diarrhea
 
Well...I reluctantly pulled the plug on H-drol and am in into PCT now. Without going into to much detail at this point, basically I was getting gastro issues from either it or CA that were getting progressively worse. I can't say if H-drol is to blame for that at this point, orals are to blame or that is just my body's reaction to steroids in general, but I had to stop nontheless. Definitely a drag cuz I was in fact getting good gains on it. and was up about 8-9 lbs after 24 days ON. At this point i am taking just Nolva @20 mg in case the CA was the real culprit and in lieu am back to taking Milk Thistle and hawthorne berry for now. I had blood drawn yesterday and will review with my doc shortly (who was very cool, non-judgmental and surprisingly helpful about it all!!!) about my levels, but i feel fine, the duration and dosing was relatively short, so I think I am probably OK and just need things to level out probably. I am going to wait another day or so and maybe see what my bloods say, but i think I probably will be best to use my test booster to if it doesn't bother me. I'm hoping/thinking a few days without the test booster prob isn't the end of the world and will likely have more about gains kept than health risk of not using it. All along my energy/mood has been fine and I had a good workout last night and will be back at it today. I am going to focus on keeping my calories up and training for 3-4 more weeks at least to make sure i recover as quick as I can and hope to keep what I was able to get as best I can. I am thinking about bring back in creatine, stims and maybe even a prework supp for the first time like jacked or something to help. But again, I want to wait a few days first before I introduce some new stuff to see how my body responds to being off H-drol. Anyway, I'm not going to bash H-drol as it is too hard to say exactly why I responded like that. Time will tell. I'll let you guys know how my bloodwork looks as that will be valuable info to you guys I'm sure. In the end I will be doing at least 3 draws of blood. pre-cycle, post cycle and post PCT. Most people don't do this so I'm sure people will be curious to see those numbers! For now...the plan is to stay focused and continue to train as hard as I humanly can! Stay tuned!

DICE
 
Sorry to hear that bro, you were making solid gains...

Very interested in the bloodwork and curious to see how you progress from here.
 
Yup...bloods to come. The clinic screwed up and said I DID NOT have to fast for the tests they were doing, but weren wrong as u need to fast for hdl/LDL/ratio. However my doc confirmed that they're prob not a concern as my pre- bloods were excellen, I was conservative in dozing and only did 24 days. Said that they will likely turn around quickly and they need to be bad for a long time..couple months of bad lipids are harmless. It's years of bad lipids tearing away at your arteries that takes it's toll. I'm more interested in the liver and test values. I was sneaky and checked off the text boxes before I gave my blood req to the lab.

Anyway...on a good note, although I FELT weaker I put up good numbers in the gym yesterday and today and my weight and strength is holding. Hoping I can get the test booster in at some point soon.
 
*** i posted this in another thread solely relating to my diarrhea, but for ease, here is the info...***

Bloodwork result are in and will follow, but first...

Guys, I got a private message from someone that said my diarrhea problem might be due to the fact that there is a lot of Magnesium in CA and H-drol and that is know to cause diarrhea. MAJOR THANKS DUDE as I think you were exactly right! After digging into it I found that people with troubled digestive systems (mine is a bit wonky as I am allergic to Gluten) can experience this more. Furthermore, I cut back on salt big time for my cycle and that helps you body balance magnesium. FURTHERMORE, when I looked at my diet many of the foods I eat every day are high in magnesium (spinach, almonds , oatmeal, brown rice, legumes...staples for me). Plus it was in my vitamins. Kind of a perfect storm for high magnesium problems.

So, I have since started taking Psylium which helps you bind your crap. Added more potassium, sodium and calcium to my diet (which are magnesium antagonists - Gatoraid) and am cutting back on the high mag foods I eat. My crap are improved quite a bit but are still a bit thin and loose, but I feel fine and no stomach issues or anthing I am going to start taking my test booster and CA again CUZ...(and correct me if you think I am mistaken to do so)

My blood results are back. The numbers are in Canadian measures and I have to convert them and I don't have the fine details but I do have what believe are my free and bioavailble numbers. I am not sure if I am reading this wrong, BUT, I have a section that says

"Endocrinilogy"
Testosterone (measured in nmol) reference range 8.4 - 28.7. If you multiply those numbers x 29 you get the US version of those numbers I believe which are 243-832. I googled the normal ranges for US testosterone and it appeared to add up. I'll put the US versions in brackets to help.

Before
My nmol = 13.2
aka 382.8 ng/dl

After
My nmol = .9
aka 26.1 ng/dl


Bioavailble testosterone
ref range is 2.1-8.5 nmol (aka 60.9 - 246.5 ng/dl)
Before
2.51 (aka 72.79 ng/dl)
After
My nmol = .35 (aka 10.15)

SHBG
before 38nmol (1102 ng/dl)
after 10 nmol (290 ng/dl)

I'm no expert at this stuff but a quick glace at the normal range and some google searches and I would guess that I was "SHUT DOWN" .

Liver values

Before
ALT = 40
AST = 40

AFTER
ALT 417
AST 165


Thoughts. These seem like significant changes. How significant, I don't know, so those who know well, please advise. That said, my doctor didn't seem that worried. She said that while my liver took a beating that it was not THAT bad and would recover fine in a month, but said, "whatever you were taking had quick changes to your liver and you wouldn't have wanted to stay on that for much longer. I told her if I hadn't stopped it would have been about another 1.5 weeks and she didn't say anything. As for testosterone, she said that as long as I get lots of exercise and eat lots it should recover fine too. But damn that seems really low to me. How does that compare to others on the last day of their cycle. Is that normal?

Now, My energy is excellent, I have not lost weight and my strength has held up in the gym and I have not lost anything since ceasing H-drol 6 days ago really. Tiny tiny bit maybe. But some lifts are actually up. I am on 20mg daily of Nolvadex. Is it possible that test will go up rapidly after quiting H-drol or maybe or is H-drol still in there a bit or something? My gut feeling is that Nolvadex was/is critical!

I belive that I should start to taking my test booster now that I know what my diarrhea problem was and at this point would want to do everything I can to make sure that my test goes up as fast as possible...CORRECT ASSUMPTION?. I started taking it again last night.

SHOULD i ALSO ADD BACK IN MY CYCLE ASSIST?. Do the Nolva and Activate Xtreme have much of an impact on liver values or are they much weaker than H-drol and things are probaly on the mend, but perhaps a bit slower without them. Is CA that important in PCT or can I just maybe continue with Milk Thistle and Hawthorn Berry? I took CA this morning but would like to hear from someone on this.

I want to add creatine and a preworkout supp (bought some magnesium free Jacked for this). Sound OK? If excercise plays a big part in getting my test back I want ot max my sessions! I took some yesterday for the first time and really liked it, despite hearing that pre workout stuff was all hype. Seemed to give me enrgy, but being caffeine free for two months probably didn't hurt!

PLEASE ADVISE and thanx for all your help fellas!

DICE
 
Nolva is quite liver toxic. Here some details: predatornutritionDOTcom/nolvadex_and_clomid_dangers.cfm

But your doc said your liver will be fine?
 
Yes she did.

I've read this before. Pretty harsh criticism of nolva and it makes it's point. But, nolva has been used countless times for pct and has been in medical use for decades. If it was THAT bad I think it would be obvious. It also partly why I am doing only 20/20/10/10. also, I am doing it for a month where some cancer patients do it at higher doses and for years. I take it seriously, but NOT taking Nolva when u r shutdown also has it's risks.

Thanx for the info tho.

DICE
 
Yea true, though there are safer Serms (so I have read).

I hope everything will go fine with your liver and pct.:bigok: I wonder what my liver will look like afterwards.

Are you gonna get your bloodwork etc. done again after pct? Would probably be very interesting to see how much the values have changed.
 
Bid said:
Yea true, though there are safer Serms (so I have read).

I hope everything will go fine with your liver and pct.:bigok: I wonder what my liver will look like afterwards.

Are you gonna get your bloodwork etc. done again after pct? Would probably be very interesting to see how much the values have changed.
Click to expand...
Yes

I am doing at least 3 sets of blood-work. Precycle, post cycle and post PCT. Yeah, I have heard Torem is a much liked SERM too and I know someone on here who is trying Clomid so i would be curious how he likes that. To be frank I didn't know as much about the different SERM's and chose Nolva as it was the most widely used and had been around for many years. Like in that link you sent, I suspect since they all work the same way that they may all have these potential, or maybe even worse, problems. We don't know yet as some of these SERMS are "new" from a medical standpoint and I prefer not to try something that hasn't be tried a million times before when given the option.

Are you thinking of doing H-drol? Without rambling, if you do, take your time and do it right or not at all bro! Don't take it lightly.

DICE
 
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