First D-BOL cycle, any advice for the FNG

Airborne2021 said:
wish I could do leg day bud, just had my 2 big toe nails removed, so nothing waist down for the next 2 weeks at least, the wife ain’t to pleased
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Brother, nobody should ever start a cycle while they can't work their lower body.
Patience.
 
your in the uk aren’t you mate? (Only us and the Aussies use mate instead of bro and Pete tong is definitely us in the uk 😂)

As @Smont says diet and training will make up the most of what happens.

issue with recommendations is that we all respond so differently. You have a maximum rate at which you can gain actual lean mass. The secret is to find a compound (or stack) and the lowest doses possible to achieve that growth. Some guys can run 300mg test only and grow like a weed (assuming diet and training is good) whereas other guys with the same diet and training need way more.

personally I feel great on test but it does nothing for body comp for me. I don’t respond that well to dht derivatives unless I dose them very high. I grow best on 19nors, I do respond well to the gh pathway at sensible doses whereas lots of guys get nothing from gh etc

the starting point should always be lowish dose and simple cycles, why **** your body up with big stacks and doses if you don’t need to……and then you monitor how you respond and adjust. Takes years sometimes.

all the above doesn’t even take into account genetics. Whilst diet, training and gear will make you the best version of you, that doesn’t mean you can be massive or on a par with a pro bodybuilder, whatever you take. Most pro’s will look better natty than most of us will look after years of gear. I look nothing special compared to most but I look way better than I could naturally. Don’t compare to others, just aim to be a better version of you.

re adrol and sdrol. Honestly don’t run them together. It’s stupid (I did it and it is stupid). Adrol is generally great for strength. Sdrol is brutal, lots of sides for most, many give up after 3-4 weeks. Depends on your goals. Sdrol will change your look quickly but it goes away as quick as it comes. Adrol is often used by powerlifters and if you tolerate it well doesn’t have crazy sides
 
I mis quoted here probably, my phone's messing up.

But somewhere you said your eating 3000-4000 calories a day, that's a huge range and it sounds like you don't know exactly how much your eating or even close

Another thing, it's not nearly enough food, your 6'7 and trying to put on muscle. I'm 5'9 and 3400 calories per day has me at 200-202 lbs when I ended a few weeks back, I'm eating 3200calories a day right now and that's maintenance calories at 198lbs.

Someone your size is easily going to need to 5000+ calories a day when trying to build any significant amount of muscle
 
Whisky said:
your in the uk aren’t you mate? (Only us and the Aussies use mate instead of bro and Pete tong is definitely us in the uk )

As @Smont says diet and training will make up the most of what happens.

issue with recommendations is that we all respond so differently. You have a maximum rate at which you can gain actual lean mass. The secret is to find a compound (or stack) and the lowest doses possible to achieve that growth. Some guys can run 300mg test only and grow like a weed (assuming diet and training is good) whereas other guys with the same diet and training need way more.

personally I feel great on test but it does nothing for body comp for me. I don’t respond that well to dht derivatives unless I dose them very high. I grow best on 19nors, I do respond well to the gh pathway at sensible doses whereas lots of guys get nothing from gh etc

the starting point should always be lowish dose and simple cycles, why **** your body up with big stacks and doses if you don’t need to……and then you monitor how you respond and adjust. Takes years sometimes.

all the above doesn’t even take into account genetics. Whilst diet, training and gear will make you the best version of you, that doesn’t mean you can be massive or on a par with a pro bodybuilder, whatever you take. Most pro’s will look better natty than most of us will look after years of gear. I look nothing special compared to most but I look way better than I could naturally. Don’t compare to others, just aim to be a better version of you.

re adrol and sdrol. Honestly don’t run them together. It’s stupid (I did it and it is stupid). Adrol is generally great for strength. Sdrol is brutal, lots of sides for most, many give up after 3-4 weeks. Depends on your goals. Sdrol will change your look quickly but it goes away as quick as it comes. Adrol is often used by powerlifters and if you tolerate it well doesn’t have crazy sides
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Yeah unfortunately I am from the UK mate 🤦‍♂️ S**T happens

In all honesty whisky I couldn’t of described it better myself mate , the whole idea is to just be better than I was physically I have the strength, though since surgery psychological strength in the form of stamina took a beating 3yrs into recovery thankfully I’m getting there and fast , I just wanted to level the field and get my form back

Dbol seems to be doing the job just fine my mood drops around late afternoon but nothing that can’t be handled I’m adding test E 250mg twice a week to keep on top of H levels and Gyno

I’ve only just finished my first week in the cycle at 10mg Dbol pre workout, I will be upping to 15mg tomorrow for the rest of the cycle and see how I end up at the end of 10 weeks though a week in I’m seeing impressive results already in terms of strength, reps, it’s just the water weight I’m not to happy with though it’s only temporary, and nothing that can’t be dealt with thanks for your advice man
 
Smont said:
I mis quoted here probably, my phone's messing up.

But somewhere you said your eating 3000-4000 calories a day, that's a huge range and it sounds like you don't know exactly how much your eating or even close

Another thing, it's not nearly enough food, your 6'7 and trying to put on muscle. I'm 5'9 and 3400 calories per day has me at 200-202 lbs when I ended a few weeks back, I'm eating 3200calories a day right now and that's maintenance calories at 198lbs.

Someone your size is easily going to need to 5000+ calories a day when trying to build any significant amount of muscle
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The calorie intake I’m struggling with also in all honesty, I researched what I should be putting down me and it worked out @4400kcal daily which is a lot even me my appetite is getting larger that will be due to the Dbol I know Me being as tall as I am weigh in @ last check was 273lbs which is lean mass with that weight I’m always eating in a deficit until I can get to 250lbs which is ideal for my height, or I can concentrate on working with the 273lbs and reduce overall body fat ?

I do track my intake daily mate, I’m currently on a 40 40 20 ratio

with 400g of protein from proper high protein sources and whey protein

Around 400g proper carbs to fuel the process

With as little 90g fats sometimes even less

Topped off with around 5ltrs of water per day

To work this off I’m in the Gym 5 times a week first thing in the morning for a 2hr session, with tons of cardio on top with endurance hiking session training

Also at my age mate being 39, my metabolism isn’t as fast as it used to be unfortunately, so everything I eat I have to burn off in the Gym, which works in all honesty, I just wanted to level the field with a Dbol cycle to see how I respond time will tell but so far so good thanks for your input
 
Airborne2021 said:
The calorie intake I’m struggling with also in all honesty, I researched what I should be putting down me and it worked out @4400kcal daily which is a lot even me my appetite is getting larger that will be due to the Dbol I know Me being as tall as I am weigh in @ last check was 273lbs which is lean mass with that weight I’m always eating in a deficit until I can get to 250lbs which is ideal for my height, or I can concentrate on working with the 273lbs and reduce overall body fat ?

I do track my intake daily mate, I’m currently on a 40 40 20 ratio

with 400g of protein from proper high protein sources and whey protein

Around 400g proper carbs to fuel the process

With as little 90g fats sometimes even less

Topped off with around 5ltrs of water per day

To work this off I’m in the Gym 5 times a week first thing in the morning for a 2hr session, with tons of cardio on top with endurance hiking session training

Also at my age mate being 39, my metabolism isn’t as fast as it used to be unfortunately, so everything I eat I have to burn off in the Gym, which works in all honesty, I just wanted to level the field with a Dbol cycle to see how I respond time will tell but so far so good thanks for your input
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Your metabolism will only be as slow as you make it, I know there's a difference from person to person but if your activity level, amount of muscle and how lean you are will all play a role in metabolism.

I actually 100% believe our metabolism doesn't slow down, we slow down. When I was a kid I rode bikes every day, was on the wrestling team played baseball, basketball, football and boxing. Plus lifted weights. Now I don't do the large majority of that stuff. So did my metabolism actually slow down or am I just not burning off all the extra calories any more. If your doing cardio, lifting weights, eating healthy and taking gear.... Your metabolism will be roaring and you will be burning up a ton of calories
 
Airborne2021 said:
Yeah unfortunately I am from the UK mate 🤦‍♂️ S**T happens

In all honesty whisky I couldn’t of described it better myself mate , the whole idea is to just be better than I was physically I have the strength, though since surgery psychological strength in the form of stamina took a beating 3yrs into recovery thankfully I’m getting there and fast , I just wanted to level the field and get my form back

Dbol seems to be doing the job just fine my mood drops around late afternoon but nothing that can’t be handled I’m adding test E 250mg twice a week to keep on top of H levels and Gyno

I’ve only just finished my first week in the cycle at 10mg Dbol pre workout, I will be upping to 15mg tomorrow for the rest of the cycle and see how I end up at the end of 10 weeks though a week in I’m seeing impressive results already in terms of strength, reps, it’s just the water weight I’m not to happy with though it’s only temporary, and nothing that can’t be dealt with thanks for your advice man
Click to expand...

just be careful to keep an eye on your estrogen when you add test to dbol mate. Your not adding a massive dose but dbol is a wet compound and adding test will only increase estrogen and potential gyno sides.

if you start to get gyno sides start a low dose of an ai and monitor.
 
Smont said:
Your metabolism will only be as slow as you make it, I know there's a difference from person to person but if your activity level, amount of muscle and how lean you are will all play a role in metabolism.

I actually 100% believe our metabolism doesn't slow down, we slow down. When I was a kid I rode bikes every day, was on the wrestling team played baseball, basketball, football and boxing. Plus lifted weights. Now I don't do the large majority of that stuff. So did my metabolism actually slow down or am I just not burning off all the extra calories any more. If your doing cardio, lifting weights, eating healthy and taking gear.... Your metabolism will be roaring and you will be burning up a ton of calories
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Never thought of it like that before thanks man
 
Whisky said:
just be careful to keep an eye on your estrogen when you add test to dbol mate. Your not adding a massive dose but dbol is a wet compound and adding test will only increase estrogen and potential gyno sides.

if you start to get gyno sides start a low dose of an ai and monitor.
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Will do, what’s the best so to get Whisky
 
2 whole eggs, 2 bananas, 1 cup of oats, 1 scoop protein powder, 2 tbsp peanut butter, 16oz milk.

Throw it in a blender, it's about 65gm protein and around 1000 calories and you can drink it in about 2 minutes. It's not super filling either, it will digest super fast and you will be hungry again fairly soon.

When I'm trying to get a lot of calories in this is how I start my day, sometimes il add a extra scoop of whey and split it into 2 separate shakes, one to start the day and one before bed.

You can replace the peanut butter with 2 extra bananas if you want the fat lower and the carbs higher.

You can use skim fairlife milk for more protein and less fat. You can replace the oats with your favorite breakfast cereal to alter the flavor. Endless possibilities
 
Smont said:
2 whole eggs, 2 bananas, 1 cup of oats, 1 scoop protein powder, 2 tbsp peanut butter, 16oz milk.

Throw it in a blender, it's about 65gm protein and around 1000 calories and you can drink it in about 2 minutes. It's not super filling either, it will digest super fast and you will be hungry again fairly soon.

When I'm trying to get a lot of calories in this is how I start my day, sometimes il add a extra scoop of whey and split it into 2 separate shakes, one to start the day and one before bed.

You can replace the peanut butter with 2 extra bananas if you want the fat lower and the carbs higher.

You can use skim fairlife milk for more protein and less fat. You can replace the oats with your favorite breakfast cereal to alter the flavor. Endless possibilities
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Sounds the business I always carb up before a session so it works out 100g carbs with around 40g protein, then I have a pure protein shake immediately after at around 100g Protein with around 40carbs
 
Airborne2021 said:
Sounds the business I always carb up before a session so it works out 100g carbs with around 40g protein, then I have a pure protein shake immediately after at around 100g Protein with around 40carbs
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I was more so just saying it's a fast easy way to get a extra 1000 calories in when your not hungry if your having a hard time getting the food down. Solid food is better then liquid calories, but liquid calories are better then not getting enough calories
 
Smont said:
I was more so just saying it's a fast easy way to get a extra 1000 calories in when your not hungry if your having a hard time getting the food down. Solid food is better then liquid calories, but liquid calories are better then not getting enough calories
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Thanks mate I get what your saying, I’ll be eating in a deficit anyway for the next 5 days due to a course of Antibiotics I’ve had to start today

My test E 250mg arrives next week to add to the Dbol cycle twice a week so 500mg obviously
I’ll make sure my calories meet my needs
 
Airborne2021 said:
Thanks mate I get what your saying, I’ll be eating in a deficit anyway for the next 5 days due to a course of Antibiotics I’ve had to start today

My test E 250mg arrives next week to add to the Dbol cycle twice a week so 500mg obviously
I’ll make sure my calories meet my needs
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I got to be honest man, not trying to offend you or anything. But between not being able to work your legs, taking antibiotics which I get it, it's necessary, going in a deficit but trying to build muscle. Your really wasting a cycle and screwing with your hormones for minimal gains on limited bodyparts. Your in a terrible position to be cycling anything. I would put the dbol in the closet and wait a couple months till everything is 100% good to go and then start over. Your a adult and obviously you can do whatever you want but as this thread goes on it's making less and less sense to me to be on cycle right now
 
There's nothing wrong with holding off. I've cut multiple cycles short because of injury or knowing I can't be on point with my diet and workouts. There's more to gain by waiting till the time is right then there is running a half-ass cycle and then dealing with pct and loosing the gains and starting over anyway
 
Smont said:
There's nothing wrong with holding off. I've cut multiple cycles short because of injury or knowing I can't be on point with my diet and workouts. There's more to gain by waiting till the time is right then there is running a half-ass cycle and then dealing with pct and loosing the gains and starting over anyway
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Thanks for being Straight with me I kinda knew I would have to hold off tbh, was just excited at the prospect of body building

even a week in to the cycle the difference compared to Var is phenomenal and that’s only upper body I’m looking forward to the end result of a 5 week cycle @30mg a day with test E 250mg twice a week, it’s gonna be epic
 
I was, as I have never used it before, so small doses for short 5 week cycle, that inside bodybuilding webpage has been feeding me BS again hasn’t it
 
Airborne2021 said:
I was, as I have never used it before, so small doses for short 5 week cycle, that inside bodybuilding webpage has been feeding me BS again hasn’t it
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Test e takes a long time to build up. It's going to take 3-5 weeks just to hit steady peak levels of the hormone. Especially pinning it 2x week

Long esters like enanathate, cyp, decanoate, ect you need to use for like 8 weeks minimum, 10-16 would be better. If you only want to use a injectable for 4-8 weeks you want propionate or acetate ester and pin daily or every other day.
 
Smont said:
Test e takes a long time to build up. It's going to take 3-5 weeks just to hit steady peak levels of the hormone. Especially pinning it 2x week

Long esters like enanathate, cyp, decanoate, ect you need to use for like 8 weeks minimum, 10-16 would be better. If you only want to use a injectable for 4-8 weeks you want propionate or acetate ester and pin daily or every other day.
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Basically if you run test e for 5 weeks it's just starting to do it's work around week 4 or 5 and then you stop, you wasted it pretty much
 
Airborne2021 said:
I was, as I have never used it before, so small doses for short 5 week cycle, that inside bodybuilding webpage has been feeding me BS again hasn’t it
Click to expand...

I’ve just checked that page out. There’s some bro science stuff and it’s not really up to date with what we all now know but some of the base info is ok.

however, they talk about Scally’s pct protocol (crazy high doses), they have the clearance rates far too low and the killer for me was when I checked their team out to find the fucking anabolic doc is one of the leading guys 🤣🤣🤣 @Mathb33 you should never visit this site 😂

OP - that dude is well known for talking sh1te about anabolics. He uses studies that have serious design flaws to make points and seems to possess very little real world working knowledge of anabolics.

the science and what should happen on paper is great but often doesn’t match the reality.
 
Whisky said:
I’ve just checked that page out. There’s some bro science stuff and it’s not really up to date with what we all now know but some of the base info is ok.

however, they talk about Scally’s pct protocol (crazy high doses), they have the clearance rates far too low and the killer for me was when I checked their team out to find the fucking anabolic doc is one of the leading guys 🤣🤣🤣 @Mathb33 you should never visit this site 😂

OP - that dude is well known for talking sh1te about anabolics. He uses studies that have serious design flaws to make points and seems to possess very little real world working knowledge of anabolics.

the science and what should happen on paper is great but often doesn’t match the reality.
Click to expand...
The anabolic doc started out years and years ago in md magazine and he used to have good content. Idk who he teamed up with or who's paying him now but 90% of his stuff is nonsense these days. He over exaggerates or completely underplays things. He definitely sold out for a paycheck and is doing what someone tells him to
 
Whisky said:
I’ve just checked that page out. There’s some bro science stuff and it’s not really up to date with what we all now know but some of the base info is ok.

however, they talk about Scally’s pct protocol (crazy high doses), they have the clearance rates far too low and the killer for me was when I checked their team out to find the fucking anabolic doc is one of the leading guys 🤣🤣🤣 @Mathb33 you should never visit this site

OP - that dude is well known for talking sh1te about anabolics. He uses studies that have serious design flaws to make points and seems to possess very little real world working knowledge of anabolics.

the science and what should happen on paper is great but often doesn’t match the reality.
Click to expand...
I've always thought there's something off about that anabolic doc guy, his phrasing and just how he talks in general is just strange
 
Straight up then guys, I need to get this right so please if you can help, I appreciate it, you know the score I can’t mess up on a stack like this

How many weeks should I run the 10mg Dbol
With test E 250mg

For best gains along with right amount of Calories and 5 day a week gym sessions @3hrs a day not including Cardio work
 
Smont said:
Test e takes a long time to build up. It's going to take 3-5 weeks just to hit steady peak levels of the hormone. Especially pinning it 2x week

Long esters like enanathate, cyp, decanoate, ect you need to use for like 8 weeks minimum, 10-16 would be better. If you only want to use a injectable for 4-8 weeks you want propionate or acetate ester and pin daily or every other day.
Click to expand...

 
What the hell are you doing for 3 hours in the gym????


Honest opinion, I no longer start cycles with orals, I finish cycles with them.

In your situation, if it was me, since I already was on dbol I would either A. Drop it and run my testosterone for 10 weeks, during week 9 I would start dbol again, run it weeks 9 and 10 then 2 more weeks after stopping test and at the end of week 12 or 13 start pct.

Option 2 would be start the test and only use the dbol 3-4 days a week pre workout for the whole 10 weeks.

What I absolutely would not do is run dbol daily the entire time, I mean, you could, it's not gonna kill you or anything. I just don't like the idea of using it daily for that long. It's doable but not wise. Unless you really are just going to stay at 10-15 mg, then **** it why not. At week 5 on test I would get bloodwork to see where 500mg of test had your testosterone levels at, A so you know it's properly dosed, and B so you can see where your cholesterol, liver and all the other important stuff is at. Then another round of bloodwork after pct to see if you have the ability to recover your own natural production.




None of these situations are ideal, but at this point, those are the ways I'd try to salvage what I could since you have no intentions of stopping and waiting till your in a better healthier position.

2 weeks after your last injection I would do 500-1000iu of hcg every other for about 10 days and then start clomid at 50mg a day for 2 weeks and then 25mg a day for 2 weeks.

Get bloodwork about 2 weeks after your last clomid dose and see if it worked and if your healthy or not.

If everything comes back good wait another 6 weeks or so and start planning your next cycle.

That's about all I can fit on this spoon 🥄
 
Smont said:
What the hell are you doing for 3 hours in the gym????


Honest opinion, I no longer start cycles with orals, I finish cycles with them.

In your situation, if it was me, since I already was on dbol I would either A. Drop it and run my testosterone for 10 weeks, during week 9 I would start dbol again, run it weeks 9 and 10 then 2 more weeks after stopping test and at the end of week 12 or 13 start pct.

Option 2 would be start the test and only use the dbol 3-4 days a week pre workout for the whole 10 weeks.

What I absolutely would not do is run dbol daily the entire time, I mean, you could, it's not gonna kill you or anything. I just don't like the idea of using it daily for that long. It's doable but not wise. Unless you really are just going to stay at 10-15 mg, then **** it why not. At week 5 on test I would get bloodwork to see where 500mg of test had your testosterone levels at, A so you know it's properly dosed, and B so you can see where your cholesterol, liver and all the other important stuff is at. Then another round of bloodwork after pct to see if you have the ability to recover your own natural production.




None of these situations are ideal, but at this point, those are the ways I'd try to salvage what I could since you have no intentions of stopping and waiting till your in a better healthier position.

2 weeks after your last injection I would do 500-1000iu of hcg every other for about 10 days and then start clomid at 50mg a day for 2 weeks and then 25mg a day for 2 weeks.

Get bloodwork about 2 weeks after your last clomid dose and see if it worked and if your healthy or not.

If everything comes back good wait another 6 weeks or so and start planning your next cycle.

That's about all I can fit on this spoon 🥄
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Hahaha a 3hr session @5 days a week is standard for me Smont, technically it’s not all gym mate

I run to the gym so around an hour in total, then 30min weighted warm up session
Then around 1hr to 1hr 30 on the weights depending on how hungry I get

Though I have stopped the Dbol for now as i was only a week In anyway, and I need another 8 weeks for my toes to recover so I can do leg work also

See I do listen buddy I’m taking all advice on board and implementing it where I can I respect you and your experience with AAS
 
The thread is getting old now lads

I’ve stopped the cycle till I am in a better position physically

I have 82 Dbol tabs enough for a 6 week cycle at 2 tabs pre workout

Or a 12 week cycle @ 1 tab pre workout

Which cycle should I do and when should I stack the test E 250mg @ 2 shots a week with it
 
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