First cycle help Test +mast or test +EQ

What would be suggest

  • Test + mast

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
  • Poll closed .

Starr77

New member
Awards
0
Hello guys, I’m planning to run my first cycle and my goal to lean bulk without any excess body fat or water retention. Also, I wanted to achieve a physique that is life fitness models (zyzz jon skywalker , Greg plitt) . The reason I wanted to use equipoise or primo in my first cycle, is because it’s a milder compound and also more drier than testosterone .. do you think it’s okay to add an oral like anavar or Tbol during my first cycle..

The main thing to consider EQ is that I always need to be in good condition because I am a personal trainer and head PT in my university. So my image is everything. And EQ is similar to test

Masteron is a good aesthetic drug as far as I know and would be better to run with test to keep water retention low while using test as main anabolic



TLDR::

what compound do you think will be better for my situation masteron or EQ ?? Can I just your Mast as an aesthetic and make test my main anabolic or I can use EQ to put on mass while being lean ?

Week 1-4
Test cyp/ e 200-300 mgs /wk
seeing how I react to test alone

Week 4-12
Test cyp / E 300mgs /wk
Eq 300-400 mgs /wk

OR
Test cyp /e 300-
Mast E 300 mgs /week

Eq can be an AI for some people so don’t want to increase Eq too much or I’ll increase my test


Use tbol or var if I plateau or in a photo shoot

Thank you guys for you help appreciate it
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
@Smont @Hyde @MrKleen73 you guys go first lol
 
gphagan1

gphagan1

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Hello guys, I’m planning to run my first cycle and my goal to lean bulk without any excess body fat or water retention. Also, I wanted to achieve a physique that is life fitness models (zyzz jon skywalker , Greg plitt) . The reason I wanted to use equipoise or primo in my first cycle, is because it’s a milder compound and also more drier than testosterone .. do you think it’s okay to add an oral like anavar or Tbol during my first cycle..

The main thing to consider EQ is that I always need to be in good condition because I am a personal trainer and head PT in my university. So my image is everything. And EQ is similar to test

Masteron is a good aesthetic drug as far as I know and would be better to run with test to keep water retention low while using test as main anabolic



TLDR::

what compound do you think will be better for my situation masteron or EQ ?? Can I just your Mast as an aesthetic and make test my main anabolic or I can use EQ to put on mass while being lean ?

Week 1-4
Test cyp/ e 200-300 mgs /wk
seeing how I react to test alone

Week 4-12
Test cyp / E 300mgs /wk
Eq 300-400 mgs /wk

OR
Test cyp /e 300-
Mast E 300 mgs /week

Eq can be an AI for some people so don’t want to increase Eq too much or I’ll increase my test


Use tbol or var if I plateau or in a photo shoot

Thank you guys for you help appreciate it
I like Test/Mast at 400/400….very manageable clean cycle that can be very productive if diet and training are in order, which I assume would be considering your profession.
 

Starr77

New member
Awards
0
I like Test/Mast at 400/400….very manageable clean cycle that can be very productive if diet and training are in order, which I assume would be considering your profession.
Yeah both test and mast is enanthate ester so will clear out same to pct as well .. mast will dry for sure
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
EQ is not an appropriate compound for anyone looking to PCT. Look up the half-life, and then understand that it will take FIVE of those intervals to clear after your last shot before PCT/recovery can be attempted.

You don’t need 3 compounds on your first cycle. There will be more cycles, and you can test more compounds as you go along. Start with test, and you can add Mast, Var or Tbol later into it if desired. The orals will mess up your HDL very likely.
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
@Hyde nailed it. Run a decent amount of test for a cycle see how it works alone for you. If you feel you need more add in some masteron preferably unless you are okay with lipids getting pretty out of whack from the orals. Orals do often add the bigger kick but you pay a little more in the health department for it.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I just had like a 7 mile long post and I erased it on accident lol


Basically you should run test only first and then next cycle add Mast.

You need to learn how you handle estrogen and other things on test before you add variables. It's gonna help you in the long run
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
So the three bros I asked to hop in did and pretty much said what I wanted to but more. Test only is a must on your first cycle. It will be the backbone of every cycle from here on out so you need to know how you react to it and how much you can push without an a.i. scince this is your first cycle you can get amazing results with 500 mg of test, the look you desire will be accomplished through diet and training, it doesn't matter hiw much gear you h take
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Also just curious what your starting stats are?
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Also wanted to apologize if I came off like a dick in my posts didn't mean too. I just don't want to see someone as motivated as yourself get started off in the wrong foot and either hurt yourself or take 2 steps backwards before you take 1 forward
 
UnrealMachine

UnrealMachine

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
Wanted to add that the Mast, whether in your next cycle or whatever, only really makes sense if you’re already fairly shredded. It’s such an aesthetic drug. It doesn’t hurt but unless youre like 9% or less you might be underwhelmed
 
Shaun Meyer

Shaun Meyer

New member
Awards
0
Instead of SARMs, I am wondering if doing a Test Cypionate only cycle wouldn't be the better option. The data on this is just so much more reliable than with SARMS.
 
botk1161

botk1161

Active member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
Instead of SARMs, I am wondering if doing a Test Cypionate only cycle wouldn't be the better option. The data on this is just so much more reliable than with SARMS.
I don’t know why anyone bothers with SARMS when they can use safe and effective injectables like Test.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
If your dead set on using 2 compounds then start with just testosterone for the first 8 weeks

Pick a dose and keep it there for the whole 8 weeks, I vote 350-400mg. Then after 8 weeks you will have a general understanding of how that works for you. I will also add that during these 8 weeks if you haven't made significant progress then yiu need to reevaluate your diet and training. Now after 8 weeks pick your poison I vote Mast prop or npp 75-100mg eod or a mild oral like var or tbol or lgd at 30-50mg a day.
I don’t know why anyone bothers with SARMS when they can use safe and effective injectables like Test.
Because test does something completely different then sarms just like test does something completely different then eq or npp or dbol. There's different drugs for different reasons. Now in a perfect world guys would run testosterone and other Bioidentical hormones. Testosterone, hgh and possibly even insulin and never touch oral steroids and all these other injectable steroids that can't be found in the human body. No eq, no npp, no tren or anadrol ect.

Now if you have access to all the traditional steroids then sarms become very low on the list of what you would probably want to run. But even then there still might be a case to pick a sarm over a oral. IL take lgd over tbol any day of the week. IL also take s23 over tbol or anavar in a cutting situation.

Then you may have a person who doesn't have access to regular gear. There gonna be stuck with Andros, sarms and whatever prohormones you can still find online. (Honesty everyone has access to real gear they just don't look hard enough)

My point is they have a place. I have access to everything and anything I want and I still use lgd and s23. I personally prefer the injectable version of both of them over the oral
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Wanted to add that the Mast, whether in your next cycle or whatever, only really makes sense if you’re already fairly shredded. It’s such an aesthetic drug. It doesn’t hurt but unless youre like 9% or less you might be underwhelmed
I know you’re looking at this from a cosmetic perspective, but mast does drive protein synthesis like other AAS, it upregulates neurology & decreases estrogen.

It would be a good secondary drug at any bodyfat if any of those characteristics were desired without further increasing estrogen burden or adding oral drugs.

Now if someone said hey bro, you can pick anadrol or lgd. Obviously I'm picking anadrol or if someone said tren or s23, tren wins by 1000 yards
True life, if I needed to run an oral for 6-8 weeks I definitely would pick LGD over Anadrol. No way am I trying to go 8 weeks choking all of my meals down & blending everything to keep my weight up because I can’t eat on Drol! Just to your point about different tools for different scenarios.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I know you’re looking at this from a cosmetic perspective, but mast does drive protein synthesis like other AAS, it upregulates neurology & decreases estrogen.

It would be a good secondary drug at any bodyfat if any of those characteristics were desired without further increasing estrogen burden or adding oral drugs.



True life, if I needed to run an oral for 6-8 weeks I definitely would pick LGD over Anadrol. No way am I trying to go 8 weeks choking all of my meals down & blending everything to keep my weight up because I can’t eat on Drol! Just to your point about different tools for different scenarios.
That's a good point too, you can't grow if you can't eat
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I've also tried explaining the masteron thing to a few ppl. It does build muscle, just not as good as other anabolics. If you take 2 guys who are natty and person 1 gets a placebo and person 2 gets 500mg of masteron you can bet your ass person 2 is going to get stronger and build more muscle then person 1
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I used to bang my head against the wall hearing all the this steroid is only good for people under X% body fat. I was always like boy you don't really understand how steroids work do you. If you are using it to dry you out and look leaner then yeah be lean enough to notice when you dry out. Sure some things are great in certain scenarios but gear is gear and it does it's thing regardless of body fat and will often help someone achieve their lower body fat faster than if they tried without it because it allows more aggressive dieting while retaining or even building muscle. It is more about having realistic expectations based off of the compound and dose.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I used to bang my head against the wall hearing all the this steroid is only good for people under X% body fat. I was always like boy you don't really understand how steroids work do you. If you are using it to dry you out and look leaner then yeah be lean enough to notice when you dry out. Sure some things are great in certain scenarios but gear is gear and it does it's thing regardless of body fat and will often help someone achieve their lower body fat faster than if they tried without it because it allows more aggressive dieting while retaining or even building muscle. It is more about having realistic expectations based off of the compound and dose.
The whole low or high bodyfat thig pertains more to the cosmetic effects and side effects. Someone with high bodyfat might get worse estrogen sides, acne, gyno ect. I've witnessed this first hand with myself. The higher my bodyfat the more I have to do to stop my estrogen from going through the roof. But on the other hand I know guys running 2gm of test and there fat. There big and strong and there's a lot of muscle underneath but there well over 25%. If I was 25% I'd be wearing a sweater made out of pimples on anything more then trt without pinning daily and taking exemestane every day.

Then on the other hand we get cosmetic effects that can only really be appreciated at lower bodyfat. It doesn't mean that it's not working. But from a physique perspective, I cannot reap the benefits of masteron and winni if I'm 14 or 18 or 20% bodyfat. I can still get estrogen control, strength gains, muscle growth ect. Out of the compounds but I'm not leveraging them for physique purposes at 15%. If I was 12% or 10% or less, idk the exact number but lean. If yiur already lean then masteron and winni are going to bring on a cosmetic effect. That effect is different then if I added deca and dbol.

For muscle growth, everything kinda does the same thing. But from a cosmetic perspective, there's different drugs that work better at different times
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
The whole low or high bodyfat thig pertains more to the cosmetic effects and side effects. Someone with high bodyfat might get worse estrogen sides, acne, gyno ect. I've witnessed this first hand with myself. The higher my bodyfat the more I have to do to stop my estrogen from going through the roof. But on the other hand I know guys running 2gm of test and there fat. There big and strong and there's a lot of muscle underneath but there well over 25%. If I was 25% I'd be wearing a sweater made out of pimples on anything more then trt without pinning daily and taking exemestane every day.

Then on the other hand we get cosmetic effects that can only really be appreciated at lower bodyfat. It doesn't mean that it's not working. But from a physique perspective, I cannot reap the benefits of masteron and winni if I'm 14 or 18 or 20% bodyfat. I can still get estrogen control, strength gains, muscle growth ect. Out of the compounds but I'm not leveraging them for physique purposes at 15%. If I was 12% or 10% or less, idk the exact number but lean. If yiur already lean then masteron and winni are going to bring on a cosmetic effect. That effect is different then if I added deca and dbol.

For muscle growth, everything kinda does the same thing. But from a cosmetic perspective, there's different drugs that work better at different times
Oh certainly, but when people say it like it's a hard and fast rule it is just a bit dogmatic and old school. Also certainly estrogen being elevated when fat is another reason to recommend something DHT based even if it doesn't show cosmetic / drying effects it would on someone with lower bodyfat.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
Oh certainly, but when people say it like it's a hard and fast rule it is just a bit dogmatic and old school. Also certainly estrogen being elevated when fat is another reason to recommend something DHT based even if it doesn't show cosmetic / drying effects it would on someone with lower bodyfat.
It's that 90's bodybuilding mentality, dbols for bulking, masteron is for cutting in contest prep, winni is for 8 weeks out, deca is for blah blah blah. The same ppl that think sustanon is stronger then test cyp.

My only defense to the opposite side of the fence is when I see someone say its my first cycle and or I'm 20% and I need to cut so I'm picking masteron because it gets you cut dry and hard. No it won't, but if yiur already super lean it will make you dryer and harder
 

Mikereyn513

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
I used to bang my head against the wall hearing all the this steroid is only good for people under X% body fat. I was always like boy you don't really understand how steroids work do you. If you are using it to dry you out and look leaner then yeah be lean enough to notice when you dry out. Sure some things are great in certain scenarios but gear is gear and it does it's thing regardless of body fat and will often help someone achieve their lower body fat faster than if they tried without it because it allows more aggressive dieting while retaining or even building muscle. It is more about having realistic expectations based off of the compound and dose.
I think when dudes say that they're mostly talking about compound selection. Mast and winny are going to do a lot more for someone under 15% bodyfat than someone over 15%
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I think when dudes say that they're mostly talking about compound selection. Mast and winny are going to do a lot more for someone under 15% bodyfat than someone over 15%
That's kinda the point but it depends how you look at it, and I think 15% is still to fat "by fat I simply mean too much body fat, I don’t think 15% is fat" but cosmetic wise you will benefit more by being leaner.

But the person with higher bodyfat is actually going to benefit more in the sense that they might not need a ai, which let's them use more testosterone and reap the benefits from higher mgs without added side effects.

The simple statement that you wanna be lean to use masteron doesn't hold true.

Your also looking at it from a bodybuilding perspective but steroids weren't invented for bodybuilding at least most of them weren't. Someone who is a power lifters or a man fighter or a cylist or strongman or arm wrestler or bench press specialist ect. Ect. Will all disagree with the 15% or being lean and each one of the listed above has a different reason for using each compound.

That's kinda where I was going with all this.

Flex lewis
Ed coan
Lance Armstrong
Eddie hall
Broc leaner
Alex Rodriguez

There all going to have different reasons for using different drugs
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
It's that 90's bodybuilding mentality, dbols for bulking, masteron is for cutting in contest prep, winni is for 8 weeks out, deca is for blah blah blah. The same ppl that think sustanon is stronger then test cyp.

My only defense to the opposite side of the fence is when I see someone say its my first cycle and or I'm 20% and I need to cut so I'm picking masteron because it gets you cut dry and hard. No it won't, but if yiur already super lean it will make you dryer and harder
Oh yeah I totally agree there. Run test and eat in a deficit.
I think when dudes say that they're mostly talking about compound selection. Mast and winny are going to do a lot more for someone under 15% bodyfat than someone over 15%
Well that's the thing, I don't think they really do any more in that scenario, it just becomes more noticeable due to the starting place being that much closer to the finish line.
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
It's that 90's bodybuilding mentality, dbols for bulking, masteron is for cutting in contest prep, winni is for 8 weeks out, deca is for blah blah blah. The same ppl that think sustanon is stronger then test cyp.

My only defense to the opposite side of the fence is when I see someone say its my first cycle and or I'm 20% and I need to cut so I'm picking masteron because it gets you cut dry and hard. No it won't, but if yiur already super lean it will make you dryer and harder
That’s the real travesty of the “cutters/bulkers” belief system - it inherently undermines how crucial diet is to outcome. So some newbies are led to think taking some Var is the sole answer to their routine binge eating, or a kid who thinks 3,000 calories a couple timers per week is “eating to grow” wants to take Dbol because that’s the secret that will magically take him from 150 to 250lbs. And then they spin their tires going nowhere.
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
That’s the real travesty of the “cutters/bulkers” belief system - it inherently undermines how crucial diet is to outcome. So some newbies are led to think taking some Var is the sole answer to their routine binge eating, or a kid who thinks 3,000 calories a couple timers per week is “eating to grow” wants to take Dbol because that’s the secret that will magically take him from 150 to 250lbs. And then they spin their tires going nowhere.
Jackpot!

Ya, there's a reason I stick mostly to test, Mast and eq. That reason is that those 3 things give me the least side effects, the least negative health effects and they can accomplish more then enough for what I'm willing to put into this lifestyle. 600ish mg of those drugs in any combination is enough to get back from whatvi put in and then some.

But 148 lb Bob who benches 185lbs seems to think he needs 600 test, 600eq, 300 tren and 50mg of dbol every day and he can look like Chris bumstead. Secretly bobs work ethic and food consumption will limit him to being 165lbs trend out of his gourd. Or 300lb Joe thinks winni and t3 will counter the 5 doughnuts he eats for breakfast and the domino's he ordered 3 times a week
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
Agree with both of you, do the gear of choice with appropriate training and diet for your goals and they will all work to benefit one another.
 
UnrealMachine

UnrealMachine

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • RockStar
I ran Mast at 600 on a bulk and couldn’t tell what it was adding, couldn’t see any improved definition, couldn’t really tell any improved hardness over baseline, so could just me being an idiot and having dumb expectations, but moving forward I sure as sht wouldn’t personally bother with that compound unless I was getting real lean.
definitely not trying to be old school, dogmatic or dictate what others should do I just throw in my 2 cents 😉
 
Smont

Smont

Legend
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
I ran Mast at 600 on a bulk and couldn’t tell what it was adding, couldn’t see any improved definition, couldn’t really tell any improved hardness over baseline, so could just me being an idiot and having dumb expectations, but moving forward I sure as sht wouldn’t personally bother with that compound unless I was getting real lean.
definitely not trying to be old school, dogmatic or dictate what others should do I just throw in my 2 cents 😉
You answered your own question tho. You added masteron on a bulk. You don't typically get leaner or harder on a bulk. You added masteron in a situation where masteron doesn't serve a purpose other then to control estrogen or maybe slightly increase yiur strength.

If I was on a bulk and I added 50mg of winni per day I wouldn't see any increase in definition or hardness either
 
Hyde

Hyde

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I ran Mast at 600 on a bulk and couldn’t tell what it was adding, couldn’t see any improved definition, couldn’t really tell any improved hardness over baseline, so could just me being an idiot and having dumb expectations, but moving forward I sure as sht wouldn’t personally bother with that compound unless I was getting real lean.
definitely not trying to be old school, dogmatic or dictate what others should do I just throw in my 2 cents
Yeah I would say the point was so you could run that 1,200mg of test with less/no AI. Which means IGF1 ultimately stays higher, and you net more strength and size gains instead from the higher gear dose (1200/600 test/mast vs 1,200 test with AI).
 
MrKleen73

MrKleen73

Legend
Awards
5
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
This ☝ maybe var at the end and that's a maybe, Iif you do this correctly you won't even need it
Yeah but if the gut handles it well the addition of Var is always a plus. However save that for another cycle. Not the first one.
 

Similar threads


Top