FDA stepping in again

[VaughnTrue]

Correct, not in the live vaccines. But they are in the innate viris vaccines. The aborted fetal tissue was the other issue.

Aborted fetal tissue is not tissue that they take from a literal fetus, you understand this right?

Fetal tissue refers to cells which were ORIGINALLY obtained from a fetus, and then cultured and replicated over decades. Can you imagine how many fetus's would be needed to make sure they had enough tissue for all of these vaccines? There are absolutely ZERO cells which come from fetuses being used in any vaccines being used today.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Correct, not in the live vaccines. But they are in the innate viris vaccines. The aborted fetal tissue was the other issue.

What if they only use the tissue from miscarriages? Or abortions done when the mother would have died without it or the baby would not have lived anyway or would have been entirely braindead or in excruciating pain for the duration of the short life they’d have lived?

 

[ValiantThor08]

Don’t you consume “residual DNA” any time someone prepares a meal for you without gloves?

We don't inject it though. A lot of bad things we ingest gets killed in the throat, or filtered through digestive tract.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

We don't inject it though. A lot of bad things we ingest gets killed in the throat, or filtered through digestive tract.

I really hope you’ve never swam in a pool or taken a shower with an open wound.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Aborted fetal tissue is not tissue that they take from a literal fetus, you understand this right?

Fetal tissue refers to cells which were ORIGINALLY obtained from a fetus, and then cultured and replicated over decades. Can you imagine how many fetus's would be needed to make sure they had enough tissue for all of these vaccines? There are absolutely ZERO cells which come from fetuses being used in any vaccines being used today.

What if they only use the tissue from miscarriages? Or abortions done when the mother would have died without it or the baby would not have lived anyway or would have been entirely braindead or in excruciating pain for the duration of the short life they’d have lived?

no no no no no.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

no no no no no.

I’m not even agreeing that there is anything from aborted fetuses, just pointing out that it isn’t even a good argument if it is true, which I have no clue if it is.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

But what Vaughn said makes the argument of fetal tissue entirely irrelevant now, as we have the tissue and do not need any fetus anymore. So no fetus need be harmed, so you don’t need to worry about the theological aspect anymore.

 

[Jiigzz]

I have done countless hours of reading, and listening. I am no expert on immunology, but I am not completely ignorant, nor have done "half hour" of reading. I have healthy kids, do not even need to give them tylenol or advil. They are around other kids and adults all the time. They are thriving. You will say, "because of everyone with vaccines". Vaccinated people have nothing to worry about my kids. They are protected against the viruses. Likewise, I am not afraid of my kids getting measles, HRV, chicken pox, a basic cold. People in africa also do not have great sanitary conditions. A lot of them thirst, and a lot are malnourished. That has A LOT to do with why they may need a vaccine because their initial conditions are bad for a decent immune system. I am not using my kids as a pawn for any purpose. I want the best for kids, just like anyone else that has kids will do. I would do everything to protect my kids.

So you acknowledge herd immunity, but refuse to contribute toward it? Doesn't that strike you as being a touch selfish?

FWIW i can agree on chicken pox and other illnesses like it. But here is the clincher - if your child has chicken pox and passes it into an adult or elderly person who was *un*fortunate enough not to contract it as a child, are you aware that the complications can kill them?

Do you at least realise that vaccinations aren't JUST for your children, but for the protection of others in the society in which you live?

In my honest view, if you choose not to vaccinate your children, you're not only giving them the big **** YOU, but also everyone they are in contact with.

Also, just because you read, doesn't mean you are reading things that are true. In your mind they are, but in the world of immunology and immunologists you barely understand the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg. (those same people who know the difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury and elimination rates of heavy metals like aluminium that are also found in common food and water sources - but i digress).

 

[muscleupcrohn]

So you acknowledge herd immunity, but refuse to contribute toward it? Doesn't that strike you as being a touch selfish?

FWIW i can agree on chicken pox and other illnesses like it. But here is the clincher - if your child has chicken pox and passes it into an adult or elderly person who was *un*fortunate enough not to contract it as a child, are you aware that the complications can kill them?

Do you at least realise that vaccinations aren't JUST for your children, but for the protection of others in the society in which you live?

In my honest view, if you choose not to vaccinate your children, you're not only giving them the big **** YOU, but also everyone they are in contact with.

Also, just because you read, doesn't mean you are reading things that are true. In your mind they are, but in the world of immunology and immunologists you barely understand the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg. (those same people who know the difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury and elimination rates of heavy metals like aluminium that are also found in common food and water sources - but i digress).

This reminds me of the people who watch a few YouTube videos on 9-11 and think they’re structural engineers.

 

[VaughnTrue]

This reminds me of the people who watch a few YouTube videos on 9-11 and think they’re structural engineers.

jet fuel can't melt steel beams.


prove me wrong.

 

[Jiigzz]

Not you, some other members/reps. Which, I won't hold any beef/issues with any of them.

I have, and i stand by those comments. In my mind, willfully choosing not to vaccinate against preventable diseases is a form of child abuse.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Aborted fetal tissue is not tissue that they take from a literal fetus, you understand this right?

Fetal tissue refers to cells which were ORIGINALLY obtained from a fetus, and then cultured and replicated over decades. Can you imagine how many fetus's would be needed to make sure they had enough tissue for all of these vaccines? There are absolutely ZERO cells which come from fetuses being used in any vaccines being used today.

That issue. I know of cloning the immortal cells as they call them, but they do occasionally have to have fresh fetal tissue. You can only clone that cell for so many years. Look it up, that doesn't come from anti vaccine sources.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

jet fuel can't melt steel beams.


prove me wrong.

I’m actually pretty sure I saw a picture in one of my structural textbooks that conflicted with that. Let me see if I still have the picture.

 

[ValiantThor08]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/medical-researchers-say-fetal-tissue-remains-essential

 

[VaughnTrue]

That issue. I know of cloning the immortal cells as they call them, but they do occasionally have to have fresh fetal tissue. You can only clone that cell for so many years. Look it up, that doesn't come from anti vaccine sources.

for someone who has done "many hours of reading" your googling skills are really sub par. You're factually incorrect.

Immortalised cell lines are an important research tool offering a stable medium for experiments. These are derived either from tumors, which have developed resistance to senescence, or, in a few cases, from stem cells taken from aborted fetuses.[3] Fetal cell lines have been used in the manufacture of viruses since 1930s.[4] One of the first medical applications of fetal tissues was their use in the production of the first polio vaccines.[4] For example, in the 1950s, scientists at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden propagated a polio virus in fetal cells to make into a polio vaccine. The resulting vaccine was given to about 2,000 children.[5] Many other vaccines, including those for chicken pox and rubella, are made using fetal tissue from two pregnancies terminated in the early 1960s.[4][6] The same fibroblast cells from these pregnancies that were originally used to grow vaccine viruses have been growing in labs ever since, as the WI-38 and MRC-5 cell lines. They are still used to grow vaccine viruses today.[7][8] As of March 2017, at least 300 million vaccines have been given that were made using the WI-38 line alone.[9]

The cell lines currently in use were prepared from the lungs of two fetuses electively aborted in 1960 (for reasons unrelated to vaccine development),[10] No more have been needed since, and new technologies make it unlikely that any will be needed.[11][4] Babies are not being aborted in order to produce vaccines. The cells used now are not the originally harvested cells, they are descendants of those cells.[12]

References
News, A. B. C. (2015-02-17). "What Aborted Fetuses Have to Do With Vaccines". Retrieved 2019-02-05.
""Aborted fetal tissue" and vaccines: Combining pseudoscience and religion to demonize vaccines". Science-Based Medicine. 2015-08-17. Retrieved 2019-02-05.
Irfan Maqsood, M.; Matin, M. M.; Bahrami, A. R.; Ghasroldasht, M. M. (2013). "Immortality of cell lines: Challenges and advantages of establishment". Cell Biology International. 37 (10): 1038–45. doi:10.1002/cbin.10137. PMID 23723166.
Storrs, Carina (2015-07-17). "How exactly fetal tissue is used for medicine". CNN. Retrieved 2018-01-26.
Wadman, Meredith (2017-01-05). "Fact-checking Congress's fetal tissue report". Science. Retrieved 2018-01-26.
Charo, R. Alta. "Fetal Tissue Fallout". New England Journal of Medicine. 373 (10): 890–891. doi:10.1056/nejmp1510279.
Philadelphia, The Children's Hospital of (2014-11-06). "Vaccine Ingredients – Fetal Tissues". www.chop.edu. Retrieved 2018-01-26.
"Human Cell Strains in Vaccine Development". History of Vaccines. Retrieved 2018-01-26.
Wadman, Meredith (2017-03-02). "Henrietta Lacks Wasn't the Only Woman Who Unknowingly Contributed to Medical History". Slate. Retrieved 2018-01-26.
"Vaccine ingredients". vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk. Retrieved 2019-02-05.
Kozma, Natalie. "Are fetal tissues used in the creation of some vaccines?". I Vaccinate. Retrieved 2019-02-05.
"Animal derived products and National Immunisation Schedule vaccines - updated August 2017". Immunisation Advisory Centre. 2016-09-19. Retrieved 2019-02-05.
"Rubella (German Measles)". vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk. 2019-02-05. Retrieved 2019-02-05.
Wadman, Meredith (2013-06-27). "Medical research: Cell division". Nature. pp. 422–426. doi:10.1038/498422a. Retrieved 2018-01-26.
Binkley, Collin (2015-08-11). "Scientists say fetal tissue remains essential for vaccines and developing treatments". PBS NewsHour. Retrieved 2018-01-26.
News, A. B. C. (2015-02-17). "What Aborted Fetuses Have to Do With Vaccines". ABC News. Retrieved 2018-01-26.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Lets recap:

No aluminum is used in live viral vaccines
No aborted fetal tissue is used in vaccines

 

[Jiigzz]

for someone who has done "many hours of reading" your googling skills are really sub par. You're factually incorrect.

This is exactly what i mean. You can spend hours reading, but if you're not chasing the proper lines of inquiry, you may as well have not even bothered lol

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Lets recap:

No aluminum is used in live viral vaccines
No aborted fetal tissue is used in vaccines

And he can’t say that more people suffer adverse effects from vaccines than from the illnesses, because all that shows is that the vaccines work lol.

 

[soxbsbll05]

opcorn:

 

[VaughnTrue]

well this got boring fast.


I find that this happens a lot when debating using actual and verifiable facts and not subjective emotions.


bummer.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Yall have given me some food for thought to look into. Thanks!

 

[Jiigzz]

And he can’t say that more people suffer adverse effects from vaccines than from the illnesses, because all that shows is that the vaccines work lol.

Yeah, that's a paradox haha.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Yall have given me some food for thought to look into. Thanks!

I hope you look at peer reviewed research and come to the right conclusion here. I honestly wish you well in this endeavor and hope you're able to see the forest through the trees.

 

[Jiigzz]

Here is a fantastic systemic review on aluminium in vaccines.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14871632/

Here is the truth - despite the fear mongering that a lot of anti vaxxers use by drawing on buzz words like heavy metal poisoning, which they then show evidence where heavy metals cause brain damage, guess what those same anti vaxxers don't do: link aluminium in vaccines SPECIFICALLY to brain damage.

Guess what they do instead: they say vaccines have aluminum, and instead of finding evidence that specifically links vaccines to brain damage, they go straight to aluminum and brain damage.

Let's look at how that is flawed: methanol is considered toxic as it converts into formaldehyde which is incredibly toxic. Yet there is no evidence of this happening in people who eat apples, which also contain methanol.

The dose makes the poison and looking at data together is vital

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Here is a fantastic systemic review on aluminium in vaccines.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14871632/

Here is the truth - despite the fear mongering that a lot of anti vaxxers use by drawing on buzz words like heavy metal poisoning, which they then show evidence where heavy metals cause brain damage, guess what those same anti vaxxers don't do: link aluminium in vaccines SPECIFICALLY to brain damage.

Guess what they do instead: they say vaccines have aluminum, and instead of finding evidence that specifically links vaccines to brain damage, they go straight to aluminum and brain damage.

Let's look at how that is flawed: methanol is considered toxic as it converts into formaldehyde which is incredibly toxic. Yet there is no evidence of this happening in people who eat apples, which also contain methanol.

The dose makes the poison and looking at data together is vital

Sort of like people freaking out about arsenic in rice, even though it’s in drinking water too. The dose does indeed make the poison. People freaking out about this should logically support California’s Prop 65 regulations and labels, but I don’t think most of them here on AM do.

 

[thebigt]

no doubt there are some negatives associated with immunizations-but the pro's definitely outweigh the con's...I get them, my wife gets them, our children get them, our grandchildren get them.

 

[kisaj]

http://deadstate.org/vaccinations-increase-500-in-anti-vaxxer-stronghold-after-measles-outbreak/

Some good news.