FDA stepping in again

rascal14 said:
I try to not let politics affect my relationships with people, but the second I find out someone is against vaccinations I can't even stand to be near them anymore. If someone is going to just blatantly ignore facts, I want nothing to do with them. Lol

It is a shame these people are already vaccinated, though, and it is their innocent children who suffer.
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Exactly and while not proud of my initial outburst, this is how strongly I feel about this topic and anti-vaxxers. I will never listen to another viewpoint by them after that.

Anyway...back to our show.

The FDA...amIright?
 
I did read a study once that suggested single vaccines were not an issue but small children/infants receiving multiple vaccines at once could have complications due to the high levels of heavy metal. They basically suggested spacing out vaccinations. So maybe there is something to be concerned about when receiving several at once
 
CATdiesel76 said:
I did read a study once that suggested single vaccines were not an issue but small children/infants receiving multiple vaccines at once could have complications due to the high levels of heavy metal. They basically suggested spacing out vaccinations. So maybe there is something to be concerned about when receiving several at once
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I can jive with that. I am anti "unsafe" practices. The MMR vaccine used to be spread out into 3 single shots, and it was safer that way. The MMR was new, and the industry wanted it to be dominant in sales, so they got rid of single shots. I am for parents rights. Autonomy of the parents, and families. When we lose that, we become like communist Russia, or 1940s Germany. I hope we can all be mature, and just disagree about this rather than be be shunned and hated by most. The best way to get people to see your point of view is to stick with the person, not completely shun them.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
I can jive with that. I am anti "unsafe" practices. The MMR vaccine used to be spread out into 3 single shots, and it was safer that way. The MMR was new, and the industry wanted it to be dominant in sales, so they got rid of single shots. I am for parents rights. Autonomy of the parents, and families. When we lose that, we become like communist Russia, or 1940s Germany. I hope we can all be mature, and just disagree about this rather than be be shunned and hated by most. The best way to get people to see your point of view is to stick with the person, not completely shun them.
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In all fairness, this isn’t an issue that only effects your kid though. What about the kid who has a compromised immune system and/or can’t get the vaccine for some reason? If everyone, or even half the people, had the same approach as you, you’d be endangering many other children too. You’re entitled to your opinion, but at least admit this much.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
In all fairness, this isn’t an issue that only effects your kid though. What about the kid who has a compromised immune system and/or can’t get the vaccine for some reason? If everyone, or even half the people, had the same approach as you, you’d be endangering many other children too. You’re entitled to your opinion, but at least admit this much.
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If a kid had a compromised immune system, they should not be around other kids in general until something is done about that. Vaccinated kids shed viruses as much or more as unvaccinated kids.
 
Also, to my knowledge, rates of parents who do not vaccinate has remained constant for decades, and has not risen. There have been people not vaccinating since the intro to the small pox vaccines. I do not believe the movement is growing.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
If a kid had a compromised immune system, they should not be around other kids in general until something is done about that. Vaccinated kids shed viruses as much or more as unvaccinated kids.
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I’m saying that if no one has vaccines then the illnesses would spread more as they’d be more prevalent, making susceptible people more likely to catch them. I don’t see how that’s arguable. Your entire argument relies on the vast majority of people being vaccinated so you can get away riding the statistics odds of your kid not getting sick because enough other people are vaccinated.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I’m saying that if no one has vaccines then the illnesses would spread more as they’d be more prevalent, making susceptible people more likely to catch them. I don’t see how that’s arguable. Your entire argument relies on the vast majority of people being vaccinated so you can get away riding the statistics odds of your kid not getting sick because enough other people are vaccinated.
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I believe only 10 percent of the US population got measles before the vaccine came out.
 
CATdiesel76 said:
I did read a study once that suggested single vaccines were not an issue but small children/infants receiving multiple vaccines at once could have complications due to the high levels of heavy metal. They basically suggested spacing out vaccinations. So maybe there is something to be concerned about when receiving several at once
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This is the Dr Sears method and while is has been debunked, it is still popular. We actually did this. In the end, we don't care what schedule you are on, just get it done.

Thankfully, kids cannot register for school in our district without being up to date on vaccinations. This should be law.
 
kisaj said:
This is the Dr Sears method and while is has been debunked, it is still popular. We actually did this. In the end, we don't care what schedule you are on, just get it done.

Thankfully, kids cannot register for school in our district without being up to date on vaccinations. This should be law.
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One cannot get individual MMR shots.
 
kisaj said:
This is the Dr Sears method and while is has been debunked, it is still popular. We actually did this. In the end, we don't care what schedule you are on, just get it done.

Thankfully, kids cannot register for school in our district without being up to date on vaccinations. This should be law.
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Yeah I don’t have kids yet and can’t remember when I read it but seems to make sense to me to allow the body to process some of the heavy metals In between vaccinations to avoid accute toxicity. I will have to research more but this is probably the route I would prefer to go once I do have kids
 
CATdiesel76 said:
Yeah I don’t have kids yet and can’t remember when I read it but seems to make sense to me to allow the body to process some of the heavy metals In between vaccinations to avoid accute toxicity. I will have to research more but this is probably the route I would prefer to go once I do have kids
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Wise choice if you do vaccinate. And wait until the child is over the age of 3 before the MMR shot. Less chance for a major adverse reaction.
 
kisaj said:
This is the Dr Sears method and while is has been debunked, it is still popular. We actually did this. In the end, we don't care what schedule you are on, just get it done.

Thankfully, kids cannot register for school in our district without being up to date on vaccinations. This should be law.
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Canada as a whole made this mandatory. The US needs to follow suit.
 
tyga tyga said:
Canada as a whole made this mandatory. The US needs to follow suit.
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If the US follows suit of Canada, there goes the ability to differ opinions without breaking the law. Here comes more restrictions on everything. I would not trade liberty for a little more security.
 
kisaj said:
No ****.
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They used to allow parents the decision to get individual mumps, measles, and rubella. Parents electing to get the individual shots spaced out, rather than the combo shot hurt MMR sales. It is always about the bottom line. Get a business degree.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
If the US follows suit of Canada, there goes the ability to differ opinions without breaking the law. Here comes more restrictions on everything. I would not trade liberty for a little more security.
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So don’t put your kid in public school or any sports leagues and do whatever you want. You can’t have it both ways.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
They used to allow parents the decision to get individual mumps, measles, and rubella. Parents electing to get the individual shots spaced out, rather than the combo shot hurt MMR sales. It is always about the bottom line. Get a business degree.
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What is your relevant degree to talk about the safety and risk/reward of vaccines, since you’re bringing up education?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
What is your relevant degree to talk about the safety and risk/reward of vaccines, since you’re bringing up education?
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Did not know I needed a degree to be able to study a topic on my own. Look, and read literature. Listen to experts on both sides? I have an associates in science, not that that means anything. And I am debating about getting a nursing degree. Not that that means anything either.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
If the US follows suit of Canada, there goes the ability to differ opinions without breaking the law. Here comes more restrictions on everything. I would not trade liberty for a little more security.
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No, the U.S. should follow suit within the vaccination debate. Don’t try and red herring the discussion and us my statement out of context.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
Did not know I needed a degree to be able to study a topic on my own. Look, and read literature. Listen to experts on both sides? I have an associates in science, not that that means anything. And I am debating about getting a nursing degree. Not that that means anything either.
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You told him to get a business degree. I’m telling you to get a relevant degree to talk about vaccines since you told him to get one to talk about business models...
 
And what constitutes an “expert?” So one doctor in 10,000 agrees with you and you can say “well, there’s two views on the subject, so they’re both valid.”
 
muscleupcrohn said:
And what constitutes an “expert?” So one doctor in 10,000 agrees with you and you can say “well, there’s two views on the subject, so they’re both valid.”
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Majority does not equal right, just as much as a few people does not automatically equal correct.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You told him to get a business degree. I’m telling you to get a relevant degree to talk about vaccines since you told him to get one to talk about business models...
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That's okay, this is exactly why we don't get into drawn out debates with anti-vaxxers. The bar is set very low to begin with.

Also, as I happen to have a business degree, I can confidently say that there isn't a course on the business of vaccinations as an elective.
 
kisaj said:
That's okay, this is exactly why we don't get into drawn out debates with anti-vaxxers. The bar is set very low to begin with.

Also, as I happen to have a business degree, I can confidently say that there isn't a course on the business of vaccinations as an elective.
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Then you know about the bottom line. Nobody builds a business for loss.
 
You should go to school for politics because you already have the deflection and redirection down. No surprise, but worth pointing out.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
Then you know about the bottom line. Nobody builds a business for loss.
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Anti vaxxers are the epitome of what the Dunning-Kruger model hightlights.


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It is astonishing how much an anti vaxxer thinks they understand when they probably have no more than a half hour of reading under their belt compared to vaccine scientists who have spent years, if not decades, doing research to help make the world a safer place.

I love reading about aerodynamics and the making of aircraft, however id never think in a million years id have more knowledge than even a low level engineer at Airbus or Boeing.

The ironic nature of it is that most anti vaxxers are vaccinated, and they are using their children as Guinea Pigs in their misguided fight against pharma. And yet you have people in African nations walking their child for miles and miles for vaccinations as they battle widespresd disease in their villages, and on the other side of the globe we have privileged parents who want to be nAtUrAl and purposely do not vaccinate because they have no concept of the damage these illnesses used to bring before vaccinations.

What's the quote about repeating history?
 
Jiigzz said:
Anti vaxxers are the epitome of what the Dunning-Kruger model hightlights.


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It is astonishing how much an anti vaxxer thinks they understand when they probably have no more than a half hour of reading under their belt compared to vaccine scientists who have spent years, if not decades, doing research to help make the world a safer place.

I love reading about aerodynamics and the making of aircraft, however id never think in a million years id have more knowledge than a top engineer at Airbus or Boeing.

The ironic nature of it is that most anti vaxxers are vaccinated, and they are using their children as Guinea Pigs in their misguided fight against pharma. And yet you have people in African nations walking their child for miles and miles for vaccinations as they battle widespresd disease in their villages, and on the other side of the globe we have privileged parents who want to be nAtUrAl and purposely do not vaccinate because they have no concept of the damage these illnesses used to bring before vaccinations.

What's the quote about repeating history?
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I have done countless hours of reading, and listening. I am no expert on immunology, but I am not completely ignorant, nor have done "half hour" of reading. I have healthy kids, do not even need to give them tylenol or advil. They are around other kids and adults all the time. They are thriving. You will say, "because of everyone with vaccines". Vaccinated people have nothing to worry about my kids. They are protected against the viruses. Likewise, I am not afraid of my kids getting measles, HRV, chicken pox, a basic cold. People in africa also do not have great sanitary conditions. A lot of them thirst, and a lot are malnourished. That has A LOT to do with why they may need a vaccine because their initial conditions are bad for a decent immune system. I am not using my kids as a pawn for any purpose. I want the best for kids, just like anyone else that has kids will do. I would do everything to protect my kids.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
Proper gentlemen debates do not involve straw man, name calling, and ad hominin attacks.
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Your first argument was entirely fallacious. But you admittedly were able to admit that and move on, which is actually quite impressive, and I mean that in a very sincere way.

But you’ve relied on so many illogical fallacies in this thread that you don’t really have the high ground to tell others they’re guilty of them. Do you want me to point some out for you?
 
ValiantThor08 said:
I have done countless hours of reading, and listening. I am no expert on immunology, but I am not completely ignorant, nor have done "half hour" of reading. I have healthy kids, do not even need to give them tylenol or advil. They are around other kids and adults all the time. They are thriving. You will say, "because of everyone with vaccines". Vaccinated people have nothing to worry about my kids. They are protected against the viruses. Likewise, I am not afraid of my kids getting measles, HRV, chicken pox, a basic cold. People in africa also do not have great sanitary conditions. A lot of them thirst, and a lot are malnourished. That has A LOT to do with why they may need a vaccine because their initial conditions are bad for a decent immune system. I am not using my kids as a pawn for any purpose. I want the best for kids, just like anyone else that has kids will do. I would do everything to protect my kids.
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As I said, you’re doing what you view as best for you kids, but if EVERYONE did the same thing as you, we’d be decimated by a plethora of illnesses. It’s like welfare can support some people, but if everyone tries to rely on it, it’d fall apart.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Your first argument was entirely fallacious. But you admittedly were able to admit that and move on, which is actually quite impressive, and I mean that in a very sincere way.

But you’ve relied on so many illogical fallacies in this thread that you don’t really have the high ground to tell others they’re guilty of them. Do you want me to point some out for you?
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In sincerity, can you show me them? I do not mind correction. I disagree with the present vaccines. I think the aluminum in them is deadly. I would not call parents that vaccine stupid, evil, using their kids as pawns. There are obvisouly two types of experts; professors that claim the adjuvants are not deadly, and the professors that claim the adjuvants are causing neurological issues, and autoimmune issues. Both are highly educated, many actual doctors, and specialists. I just want to make the right decision for my children. I myself halted all vaccinations a few years in the Army, and take no further inoculations. I don't want to fight the industry frankly because I dont want to be in the "know".
 
ValiantThor08 said:
In sincerity, can you show me them? I do not mind correction. I disagree with the present vaccines. I think the aluminum in them is deadly. I would not call parents that vaccine stupid, evil, using their kids as pawns. There are obvisouly two types of experts; professors that claim the adjuvants are not deadly, and the professors that claim the adjuvants are causing neurological issues, and autoimmune issues. Both are highly educated, many actual doctors, and specialists. I just want to make the right decision for my children. I myself halted all vaccinations a few years in the Army, and take no further inoculations. I don't want to fight the industry frankly because I dont want to be in the "know".
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I don’t think I’ve called you stupid or evil, or that you’re using your kid as a pawn. Only that you’re relying on the actions of others to ride the statistical odds they are in your favor because of them. I’ll go through the thread and check now. And how about posting some published papers instead of YouTube videos?
 
srs question here for ValiantThor08...


Are you saying that you dislike live viral vaccines, such as those used for measles (MMRII) because of the aluminum content? I'm just trying to make sure I understand the argument. Thank you.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I don’t think I’ve called you stupid or evil, or that you’re using your kid as a pawn. Only that you’re relying on the actions of others to ride the statistical odds they are in your favor because of them. I’ll go through the thread and check now. And how about posting some published papers instead of YouTube videos?
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Not you, some other members/reps. Which, I won't hold any beef/issues with any of them.
 
VaughnTrue said:
srs question here for ValiantThor08...


Are you saying that you dislike live viral vaccines, such as those used for measles (MMRII) because of the aluminum content? I'm just trying to make sure I understand the argument. Thank you.
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Yes, that is the primary concern; a neuro toxin as the adjuvant (adjuvant is the mechanism to excite a immune response). That, and many vaccines cultured on tissue from aborted babies (called immortal cell; ironically it has to be replaced over time), and so residual DNA gets into the vaccine.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
I believe only 10 percent of the US population got measles before the vaccine came out.
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There are other illnesses people are vaccinated for. What was the incidence of a person getting ANY illness that they’re now vaccinated for?
ValiantThor08 said:
Also, to my knowledge, rates of parents who do not vaccinate has remained constant for decades, and has not risen. There have been people not vaccinating since the intro to the small pox vaccines. I do not believe the movement is growing.
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Make a claim, provide a source.
ValiantThor08 said:
Pretty sure more people have been harmed through the MMR vaccine than actually Contracting measles.
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Maybe this is because the vaccines prevent people from getting it, because it works? What is higher, the adverse effect incidence from the MMR or the incidence of illness for what it treats before the vaccines existed?
ValiantThor08 said:
Plenty of people Beyond a hundred years ago that lived over 70 years old.
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And more people died young from diseases. People that didn’t still lived a long time, but this is irrelevant.
ValiantThor08 said:
Do research on the combination of aluminum and polysorbate 80, what it does to the brain. You can recover from a mild virus, but most people do not recover from brain damage
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No source for this at all. Don’t tell me todo the research. If you’re making the claim, you should have already done it, and should be able to at least show us some references.
...If you want to vaccinate, and lay at the feet of CDC, go ahead...
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Irrelevant and assumptive. You can hate the CDC and still think vaccines are in the best interest of yourself/family/country.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
Yes, that is the primary concern; a neuro toxin as the adjuvant (adjuvant is the mechanism to excite a immune response). That, and many vaccines cultured on tissue from aborted babies (called immortal cell; ironically it has to be replaced over time), and so residual DNA gets into the vaccine.
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There is no aluminum in live viral vaccines.
 
ValiantThor08 said:
Yes, that is the primary concern; a neuro toxin as the adjuvant (adjuvant is the mechanism to excite a immune response). That, and many vaccines cultured on tissue from aborted babies (called immortal cell; ironically it has to be replaced over time), and so residual DNA gets into the vaccine.
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Don’t you consume “residual DNA” any time someone prepares a meal for you without gloves?
 
ValiantThor08 said:
Correct, not in the live vaccines. But they are in the innate viris vaccines. The aborted fetal tissue was the other issue.
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Aborted fetal tissue is not tissue that they take from a literal fetus, you understand this right?

Fetal tissue refers to cells which were ORIGINALLY obtained from a fetus, and then cultured and replicated over decades. Can you imagine how many fetus's would be needed to make sure they had enough tissue for all of these vaccines? There are absolutely ZERO cells which come from fetuses being used in any vaccines being used today.
 
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