FDA is going after bulk caffeine

Love the part about how the letter states that the advice given by manufacturers on how to measure the product is insufficient, and then it goes on to state that they took issue with a company that advised consumers to use a mg scale - a device that most consumers won't have in the kitchen. Well...isn't that how it should be measured?

It also states the "effective" dose is close to the toxic dose, which is just not true. You could easily take 1 gram of caffeine (5X the normal dose of 200 mg) and be OK. The lethal dose is probably still 10X that amount.

This is just another example of government finding problems where there aren't any.
 
HIT4ME said:
Love the part about how the letter states that the advice given by manufacturers on how to measure the product is insufficient, and then it goes on to state that they took issue with a company that advised consumers to use a mg scale - a device that most consumers won't have in the kitchen. Well...isn't that how it should be measured?

It also states the "effective" dose is close to the toxic dose, which is just not true. You could easily take 1 gram of caffeine (5X the normal dose of 200 mg) and be OK. The lethal dose is probably still 10X that amount.

This is just another example of government finding problems where there aren't any.
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That's assuming that all people have the same tolerance level, etc.

That's why I like caffeine tabs. Pre-measured, so the only mistake is taking too many.
 
if they make it illegal to buy in bulk, wouldn't it be illegal to have in a pre workout since by definition, thats bulk caffeine. the implications are larger here.
 
gateway88 said:
if they make it illegal to buy in bulk, wouldn't it be illegal to have in a pre workout since by definition, thats bulk caffeine. the implications are larger here.
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I'm interested to know how it will effect PWO's too. However, the serving size on most PWO's is "easier to follow & measure"....1 scoop & they provide the measuring tool. So, not sure the same arguments they are using here would hold up. Also, I think this is geared more towards selling to the individual consumer in bulk....not companies.
 
There's nothing on the FDA press announcements about this. Does anyone have a link to the letter itself? From the description, it sounds like there's nothing binding in there at all; it looks more like a token gesture to appease the individuals (frankly, idiots) concerned about "the children" here.
 
Nyrin said:
There's nothing on the FDA press announcements about this. Does anyone have a link to the letter itself? From the description, it sounds like there's nothing binding in there at all; it looks more like a token gesture to appease the individuals (frankly, idiots) concerned about "the children" here.
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FDA unleashing the paper tiger yet again..........
 
gateway88 said:
if they make it illegal to buy in bulk, wouldn't it be illegal to have in a pre workout since by definition, thats bulk caffeine. the implications are larger here.
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this is what i was wondering when i saw it on facebook.
if they somehow move to ban bulk caffeine powder which i and many people probably dont care since who really uses straight caffeine powder anyways, the resistance to stop it will be very small until then they say ok now all preworkouts are considered bulk caffeine and thats illegal too.
 
ericool007 said:
this is what i was wondering when i saw it on facebook.
if they somehow move to ban bulk caffeine powder which i and many people probably dont care since who really uses straight caffeine powder anyways, the resistance to stop it will be very small until then they say ok now all preworkouts are considered bulk caffeine and thats illegal too.
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That is a scary thought, and if I were them (knowing the agenda that they have against supps) that is the path I would take.

If it were ever to get to that point we'd still have pre-workouts, just without caffeine, forcing the industry to come up with new stims to replace it (which will likely be much worse than caffeine in the first place). *sigh*
 
kboxer7 said:
That is a scary thought, and if I were them (knowing the agenda that they have against supps) that is the path I would take.

If it were ever to get to that point we'd still have pre-workouts, just without caffeine, forcing the industry to come up with new stims to replace it (which will likely be much worse than caffeine in the first place). *sigh*
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or we would just have to all buy caffine tabs to take with our pre, that would suck tho if it got that bad
 
ericool007 said:
this is what i was wondering when i saw it on facebook.
if they somehow move to ban bulk caffeine powder which i and many people probably dont care since who really uses straight caffeine powder anyways, the resistance to stop it will be very small until then they say ok now all preworkouts are considered bulk caffeine and thats illegal too.
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We have straight caffeine powder. However, I know how to measure properly & I don't use over the recommend dose. I like using it as an afternoon pick me up (stay at home mom to a 2.5 yr old...I need my caffeine) vs having to make a whole pot of coffee. I've also added it to stim free PWO's to tweak the dosing to where I liked it.
 
YatesWifey04 said:
We have straight caffeine powder. However, I know how to measure properly & I don't use over the recommend dose. I like using it as an afternoon pick me up (stay at home mom to a 2.5 yr old...I need my caffeine) vs having to make a whole pot of coffee. I've also added it to stim free PWO's to tweak the dosing to where I liked it.
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ok i stand corrected, i just have so many extra thermalgenic pills and powders around i just grap a pill or dose a little alphamine instead of coffee.
its weird that not everyone is like me lol jk.
 
ericool007 said:
ok i stand corrected, i just have so many extra thermalgenic pills and powders around i just grap a pill or dose a little alphamine instead of coffee.
its weird that not everyone is like me lol jk.
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The problem with most thermogenics, for me, is they kill my appetite & I'm not good at force feeding myself. Caffeine doesn't effect my appetite at all, but gives me the boost I need when I'm dragging ass.
 
One letter: Invalid Link Removed

Impt clauses:
"Your product is offered in powdered form, and its labeling lists the substance caffeine anhydrous as the sole ingredient"
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It is unclear why your product label provides the information that one-quarter teaspoon of your product is 574 milligrams, since this amount is well in excess of the serving size that your label recommends. Although your product’s serving size is listed as 200 milligrams, it is possible that a consumer would understand your label as a whole as suggesting a serving size of one-quarter teaspoon.
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Furthermore, to the extent that your label suggests a serving size of 200 milligrams and the information regarding a one-quarter teaspoon is meant to help the consumer accurately administer a serving of 200 milligrams, these suggested conditions of use present a significant or unreasonable risk of illness or injury. Your product label appears to suggest that consumers can use a one-quarter teaspoon to measure a serving of 200 milligrams. While consumers are likely to have a one-quarter teaspoon measuring tool, a 200-milligram dose would be 34.8% of a one-quarter teaspoon, based on the information on your label. This amount cannot be accurately measured using a one-quarter teaspoon measuring tool.
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It is unclear why your product label provides information regarding a “rounded” 1/32 teaspoon; consumers are unlikely to have a 1/32 teaspoon measuring tool, as this tool is not generally available in standard consumer measuring spoon sets.
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It is unclear why your product label provides information regarding an eighth of a teaspoon and a quarter of a teaspoon, since both of these measurements are well in excess of the maximum serving size that your label recommends. Although your directions say to take 50 milligrams to 200 milligrams of the product at a time, it is possible that a consumer would understand your label as a whole as suggesting a serving size of one-eighth of a teaspoon or one-quarter of a teaspoon.
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Makes sense as to why they have gotten letters. Bloody FDA trying to clear up ambiguity!
 
Misfit28 said:
That's assuming that all people have the same tolerance level, etc.

That's why I like caffeine tabs. Pre-measured, so the only mistake is taking too many.
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No real assumption here. Very few individuals will die from even a 5 gram dose of caffeine. They may have some discomfort and other issues....but the LD50 is over 10 grams for someone who is about 120 or 150 pounds I believe.

As Jiggz points out though - reducing ambiguity on the label isn't a bad thing. More education is the answer, not more laws.
 
Next thing you know they will be mixing guaifenesin with caffeine.

The over reach of power always starts with, "its just for" and it never stops there. If we need a law firm this, we will need another law and when that doesn't work, Another (which won't work).
 
HIT4ME said:
Next thing you know they will be mixing guaifenesin with caffeine.

The over reach of power always starts with, "its just for" and it never stops there. If we need a law firm this, we will need another law and when that doesn't work, Another (which won't work).
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Here, here.
 
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