vidapreta
Well-known member
You see alot of people with Tattoos of Jesus on their bodies. Funny by doing this they're going against what God wants. Ironic isn't it.
Favorite Bible Quotes
- Thread starter Whacked
- Start date
You see alot of people with Tattoos of Jesus on their bodies. Funny by doing this they're going against what God wants. Ironic isn't it.
Orangatang
Well-known member
Once again, this passage is grossly ripped out of context. This passage (which earlier details how one should go about an animal sacrifice) is saying how the people of God should not do the things the heathens were doing to worship their pagan gods (ie cutting, marking themselves)
Harry Manback
Well-known member
The "Ask, Seek, Knock" passage has long been a favorite of mine.
Flaw
Well-known member
The thing about the watchman is it has a foundation of what is orthadox or what is popular. That never makes anything right. It claims to be un-biased but it "leads" you on to a specific belief. You know what's ironic about David Henke? A apologist gets scrutiny for writing something that is not-popular or a minority views. His points are completely popular and things a majority views. I don't put any faith in David Henke.
A quote on the page under "about us"
"Concerning a person's right to choose, we believe that a real choice is one based on access to all the information, and understanding both or all sides. The cults typically try to block their members and the public from having access to this information. We have found that most cults will use deception, control, cover up, and dishonesty with their own members and the people they are trying to convert. This deception includes some or all of the following: the group's history, false prophesy, false scholarship, a distortion of true church history and doctrine, and destructive practices of the group."
Under what is considered a cult under this decription ANY church can fall into that category because it's not the Organization itself that always tries to cover up things. It's the PEOPLE within it. A person or persons makes a mistake that is un-christian and all the sudden the whole church is LABLED non-christian or a cult. Look what happend within the catholic church. Accusations of child molestation led many to believe that all of them are bad and accept that behavior.
The truth is that every christian denomination thinks they are right in their own way. People have even been put to death for their beliefs by other christians. How hypocritical is that?
I got so much else to type on the rest of your post but I'll start off with lets go before AD, let's get some research from BC.
Flaw
Well-known member
And we agree! :biggthumpup:
These kind of writings were written to cause further confusion. Influenced by the Devil? Of course. By creating these so called lost books it changes the whole flow of the bible. The book of Judas for example. It's basically a alternate ending. When you see a book like this it might make you to believe that the whole Bible is flawed then. Once you beliieve that then you will not want anything to do with it and grow angry, become atheist or whatever. In the end the goal is to draw you away from the bible and truth.
kvothe
Member
awesome post! I know it will sound like "brainwashing" but many times in the Bible it talks about not leaning on our own understanding, the wisdom of man is folly with God, etc. Things that make me question the Bible, I personally stay away from, personally I need things that will INCREASE my belief not make me question things.
vidapreta
Well-known member
On the show they also said there was some kind of meeting between the emperor and the religious leaders and they basically had all this doctrine and they had to decide what to put into and what to leave out of the Bible that we know today. What do you think of this Just curious.
Flaw
Well-known member
The devil has always taken men in power and make them abuse their power to let his will take place. (research nero) I think God maneuvers things so that in despite of all the devils plans to ruin his word or blind people to his word we will be able to see what is in there if we try and it's there for a reason. It's enough for us. Of course there's plenty of details missing. When someone records the history of someone do you they talk about every tiny detail or do they talk about what they did, who they were and the big impacts they had? Do we need to know how Jesus peed? Sitting or standing up and where? LOL... The plan to ruin the bibles message will never end, but it won't ever be victorious. Even if one takes a bible from me, they can't ever take it from my heart
bluehealer
Active member
Double D, please change the name of this tread, it's misleading since it has turned into a pissing contest.
Orangatang
Well-known member
:shock: Yes please.
BUCKNUTS
Board Supporter
We agree again then because I 100% agree with this satan is the great liar/counterfeiter and from the beginning he has sought to undermine God's word and authority.
My wife has a more simple/trusting faith than I do and sometimes I wish it were so for me but it never has been. However I do think it's important to be challenged in your faith.
2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version)
15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Acts 17:11 (King James Version)
11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
I addressed this a few posts ago they are referring to Constantine and the First Council of Nicaea. There are those that feel some books were thrown out of the Bible and the doctrine of the Trinity was established during this council. I for one don't buy it.
While I do agree it has gotten way off topic I disagree that's a "pissing contest". Initially there were some hurt feelings but I think the exchange of ideas has been constructive of late. I also know that for me personally it has made me get into my Bible more lately and that can't be anything but a good thing.
Flaw
Well-known member
Revlation 12: "rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "
It's crazy to think that a being would cause all this chaos knowing that in the end he will die. It doesn't matter how many humans or angels he took with him, Evil will not prevail in the end. You see today that his attitude has rubbed off on many people over the years. They will stop at nothing to get what they desire. They will murder, lie, cheat, step on whoever to get to what "they" think is the top. There is no top for anyone else but GOD.
I agree, We can keep this civil by not taking punches at someone because they don't believe what you believe. Rather let's continue to share our knowledge that we have come accross. All of us can take away something from eachother. There is no limit to learning. What I highlighted in bold is exactly how I feel too.
B5150
Legend
Ephesians 6:10-17
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Flaw
Well-known member
You do. I don't know where the trend started, I'd have to research it a bit but to many it seems like the right thing to do. Like a symbol of dedication to christ. I personally wouldn't do it or never have thought of doing it. God gave us this beautiful body and we write all over it? Doesn't sit well with me. I find it disrespectful. When I was a teen I almost got some tatoos on my forearms. Had it all planned out and was going to do it then Somewhere deep down it didn't feel right. As the good ole phrase goes "What would Jesus do/" I thought to myself would Jesus get a tatoo? There aren't exactly specific scriptures for everything but you can always apply the example of christ. What would he do in a circumstance like this? Would Jesus put a tattoo on him saying "FATHER" or the symbols of the tetragrammaton which represented God's name in hebrew? The ultimate symbol of his dedication to God came when he died for our sins...
Orangatang
Well-known member
Some people (like me) believe that Rev 19:16 shows a time when God has things written on his body "On his robe and on His thigh He has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords." The on His thigh is separate from the robe so its not written on the robe.
Blacktail
Member
Since some of you brought up Christianity and JW's and since I know some and since I collect a large amount of various religious literature, I have an article from one of their magazines. Take it how you will, this is their opinion on how everyone fits the bill.
Who Are Genuine Christians?
“CHRISTIANITY exists only where the memory of Jesus Christ is activated in theory and practice.” (On Being a Christian) With those words, Swiss theologian Hans Küng states a self-evident truth: Genuine Christianity exists only where sincere individuals put Jesus’ teachings into practice.
What, then, if individuals or institutions claim to be followers of Christ but do not, in fact, practice what Jesus taught? Jesus himself said that many would claim to be Christians. They would point to various activities to prove that they had served him, saying: “Did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?” How, though, would Jesus react? His dramatic words express his judgment: “I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”—Matthew 7:22,*23.
What a stark warning for “workers of lawlessness” who claim to follow Jesus! Consider two fundamental conditions that Jesus sets if he is to recognize people as genuine Christians rather than reject them as workers of lawlessness.
“If You Have Love Among Yourselves”
One condition Jesus sets is this: “I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”—John 13:34,*35.
Jesus requires his followers to have genuine love for one another and for the rest of mankind. Many individual Christians have fulfilled that condition during the centuries since Jesus walked the earth. But what about most of the religious organizations that have claimed to represent Christ? Has their history been marked by love? Certainly not. Instead, they have been in the forefront of countless wars and conflicts in which innocent blood has been spilled.—Revelation 18:24.
That has been true right up to modern times. Nations claiming to be Christian took the lead in the slaughter that marked the two world wars of the 20th*century. More recently, members of so-called Christian churches were in the forefront of the savage atrocities and attempted genocide that took place in Rwanda in 1994. “Those who had turned against one another in this gory fashion,” writes former Anglican archbishop Desmond Tutu, “espoused the same faith. Most were Christian.”
“If You Remain in My Word”
A second fundamental requirement for genuine Christianity was spelled out by Jesus when he said: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:31,*32.
Jesus expects his followers to remain in his word—that is, to stick to his teachings. Instead, religious teachers claiming to follow Christ have “increasingly adopted Greek concepts,” notes theologian Küng. They have replaced Jesus’ teachings with, among others, ideas like the immortality of the soul, a belief in purgatory, worship of Mary, and a clergy class—ideas borrowed from pagan religions and philosophers.—1*Corinthians 1:19-21; 3:18-20.
Religious teachers also introduced the incomprehensible doctrine of the Trinity, elevating Jesus to a position he never claimed for himself. In the process, they distracted people from worshipping the one to whom Jesus always directed attention—his Father, Jehovah. (Matthew 5:16; 6:9; John 14:28; 20:17) “When Jesus speaks of God,” writes Hans Küng, “he means the ancient God of the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: Yahweh .*.*. For him this is the one and sole God.” How many people today immediately associate Jesus’ God and Father with Yahweh, or Jehovah, as his name is commonly written in the English language?
Religious leaders have completely departed from Jesus’ command to stay neutral in political affairs. In Jesus’ day, Galilee “was the heartland of ethnic nationalism,” states writer Trevor Morrow. Many Jewish patriots took up arms to gain political and religious freedom. Did Jesus tell his disciples to get involved in such struggles? No. On the contrary, he told them: “You are no part of the world.” (John 15:19; 17:14) Instead of remaining neutral, however, church leaders developed what Irish writer Hubert Butler describes as “militant and political ecclesiasticism.” “Political Christianity,” he writes, “is almost always also militarist Christianity and when statesmen and ecclesiastics come to terms it always happens that, in return for certain privileges, the Church gives its blessing to the military forces of the state.”
False Teachers Disown Jesus
The apostle Paul warned of a falling away from genuine Christianity. He said that after his death, “oppressive wolves” from among professed Christians would “speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:29,*30) They would “publicly declare they know God,” but in reality they would “disown him by their works.” (Titus 1:16) The apostle Peter likewise warned that false teachers would “quietly bring in destructive sects and [would] disown even the owner that bought them.” Their bad conduct, he said, would cause people to speak “abusively” about “the way of the truth.” (2*Peter 2:1,*2) To disown Christ in this way, says Greek scholar W.*E.*Vine, means to “deny the Father and the Son, by apostatizing and by disseminating pernicious teachings.”
How would Jesus react if professed disciples deliberately failed to “remain in [his] word” and to meet other requirements that he set out? He warned: “Whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.” (Matthew 10:33) Of course, Jesus does not disown someone who makes a mistake despite his earnest desire to be faithful. For example, although the apostle Peter denied Jesus three times, Peter repented and was forgiven. (Matthew 26:69-75) However, Jesus disowns individuals or institutions that turn out to be wolves in sheep’s clothing—pretending to follow Christ but willfully and persistently rejecting his teachings. Of such false teachers, Jesus said: “By their fruits you will recognize those men.”—Matthew 7:15-20.
Apostles Die, and Apostasy Develops
When did false Christians begin to disown Christ? Very shortly after Jesus’ death. He himself warned that Satan the Devil would quickly oversow “weeds,” or false Christians, among the “fine seed,” or genuine Christians, that Jesus planted during his ministry. (Matthew 13:24, 25, 37-39) The apostle Paul warned that deceptive teachers were already at work in his day. The fundamental reason for their deviation from the teachings of Jesus Christ, he said, was that they had no real “love of the truth.”—2*Thessalonians 2:10.
The apostles of Jesus Christ acted as a restraint against this apostasy for as long as they lived. After the death of the apostles, however, religious leaders using “every powerful work and lying signs and portents and .*.*. every unrighteous deception” in order to mislead many turned more and more people away from the truths taught by Jesus and his apostles. (2*Thessalonians 2:3, 6-12) In time, writes English philosopher Bertrand Russell, the original Christian congregation was changed into a religious organization that “would astonish Jesus, and even Paul.”
Genuine Christianity Restored
The record is clear. Since the death of the apostles, Christ has not been in much of what has taken place in the name of Christianity. However, that does not mean that Jesus has failed to keep his promise to be with his followers “all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matthew 28:20) We can be sure that ever since he said those words, there have been faithful individuals among whom “the memory of Jesus Christ [has been] activated in theory and practice.” Jesus Christ has kept his promise to support such ones as they have endeavored to show the love that marks true Christians and to remain loyal to the truths that he taught.
Even better, Jesus promised that in the last days of this system of things, he would gather his faithful disciples into a clearly identifiable Christian congregation that he would use to accomplish his will. (Matthew 24:14, 45-47) He is right now using that congregation to gather together “a great crowd” of men, women, and children “out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,” and he is uniting them under his headship into “one flock” under “one shepherd.”—Revelation 7:9, 14-17; John 10:16; Ephesians 4:11-16.
Turn away, then, from any institutions or organizations that have besmirched the name of Christ and defamed Christianity over the past two thousand years. Otherwise, as Jesus Christ told the apostle John, you could “receive part of [their] plagues” when God executes his judgment on them in the near future. (Revelation 1:1; 18:4,*5) Make it your resolve to be among those spoken about by the prophet Micah when he said that “in the final part of the days,” true worshippers—adherents of true Christianity—would listen to God’s instructions and “walk in his paths” of restored pure worship. (Micah 4:1-4)
Who Are Genuine Christians?
“CHRISTIANITY exists only where the memory of Jesus Christ is activated in theory and practice.” (On Being a Christian) With those words, Swiss theologian Hans Küng states a self-evident truth: Genuine Christianity exists only where sincere individuals put Jesus’ teachings into practice.
What, then, if individuals or institutions claim to be followers of Christ but do not, in fact, practice what Jesus taught? Jesus himself said that many would claim to be Christians. They would point to various activities to prove that they had served him, saying: “Did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?” How, though, would Jesus react? His dramatic words express his judgment: “I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”—Matthew 7:22,*23.
What a stark warning for “workers of lawlessness” who claim to follow Jesus! Consider two fundamental conditions that Jesus sets if he is to recognize people as genuine Christians rather than reject them as workers of lawlessness.
“If You Have Love Among Yourselves”
One condition Jesus sets is this: “I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”—John 13:34,*35.
Jesus requires his followers to have genuine love for one another and for the rest of mankind. Many individual Christians have fulfilled that condition during the centuries since Jesus walked the earth. But what about most of the religious organizations that have claimed to represent Christ? Has their history been marked by love? Certainly not. Instead, they have been in the forefront of countless wars and conflicts in which innocent blood has been spilled.—Revelation 18:24.
That has been true right up to modern times. Nations claiming to be Christian took the lead in the slaughter that marked the two world wars of the 20th*century. More recently, members of so-called Christian churches were in the forefront of the savage atrocities and attempted genocide that took place in Rwanda in 1994. “Those who had turned against one another in this gory fashion,” writes former Anglican archbishop Desmond Tutu, “espoused the same faith. Most were Christian.”
“If You Remain in My Word”
A second fundamental requirement for genuine Christianity was spelled out by Jesus when he said: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:31,*32.
Jesus expects his followers to remain in his word—that is, to stick to his teachings. Instead, religious teachers claiming to follow Christ have “increasingly adopted Greek concepts,” notes theologian Küng. They have replaced Jesus’ teachings with, among others, ideas like the immortality of the soul, a belief in purgatory, worship of Mary, and a clergy class—ideas borrowed from pagan religions and philosophers.—1*Corinthians 1:19-21; 3:18-20.
Religious teachers also introduced the incomprehensible doctrine of the Trinity, elevating Jesus to a position he never claimed for himself. In the process, they distracted people from worshipping the one to whom Jesus always directed attention—his Father, Jehovah. (Matthew 5:16; 6:9; John 14:28; 20:17) “When Jesus speaks of God,” writes Hans Küng, “he means the ancient God of the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: Yahweh .*.*. For him this is the one and sole God.” How many people today immediately associate Jesus’ God and Father with Yahweh, or Jehovah, as his name is commonly written in the English language?
Religious leaders have completely departed from Jesus’ command to stay neutral in political affairs. In Jesus’ day, Galilee “was the heartland of ethnic nationalism,” states writer Trevor Morrow. Many Jewish patriots took up arms to gain political and religious freedom. Did Jesus tell his disciples to get involved in such struggles? No. On the contrary, he told them: “You are no part of the world.” (John 15:19; 17:14) Instead of remaining neutral, however, church leaders developed what Irish writer Hubert Butler describes as “militant and political ecclesiasticism.” “Political Christianity,” he writes, “is almost always also militarist Christianity and when statesmen and ecclesiastics come to terms it always happens that, in return for certain privileges, the Church gives its blessing to the military forces of the state.”
False Teachers Disown Jesus
The apostle Paul warned of a falling away from genuine Christianity. He said that after his death, “oppressive wolves” from among professed Christians would “speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:29,*30) They would “publicly declare they know God,” but in reality they would “disown him by their works.” (Titus 1:16) The apostle Peter likewise warned that false teachers would “quietly bring in destructive sects and [would] disown even the owner that bought them.” Their bad conduct, he said, would cause people to speak “abusively” about “the way of the truth.” (2*Peter 2:1,*2) To disown Christ in this way, says Greek scholar W.*E.*Vine, means to “deny the Father and the Son, by apostatizing and by disseminating pernicious teachings.”
How would Jesus react if professed disciples deliberately failed to “remain in [his] word” and to meet other requirements that he set out? He warned: “Whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.” (Matthew 10:33) Of course, Jesus does not disown someone who makes a mistake despite his earnest desire to be faithful. For example, although the apostle Peter denied Jesus three times, Peter repented and was forgiven. (Matthew 26:69-75) However, Jesus disowns individuals or institutions that turn out to be wolves in sheep’s clothing—pretending to follow Christ but willfully and persistently rejecting his teachings. Of such false teachers, Jesus said: “By their fruits you will recognize those men.”—Matthew 7:15-20.
Apostles Die, and Apostasy Develops
When did false Christians begin to disown Christ? Very shortly after Jesus’ death. He himself warned that Satan the Devil would quickly oversow “weeds,” or false Christians, among the “fine seed,” or genuine Christians, that Jesus planted during his ministry. (Matthew 13:24, 25, 37-39) The apostle Paul warned that deceptive teachers were already at work in his day. The fundamental reason for their deviation from the teachings of Jesus Christ, he said, was that they had no real “love of the truth.”—2*Thessalonians 2:10.
The apostles of Jesus Christ acted as a restraint against this apostasy for as long as they lived. After the death of the apostles, however, religious leaders using “every powerful work and lying signs and portents and .*.*. every unrighteous deception” in order to mislead many turned more and more people away from the truths taught by Jesus and his apostles. (2*Thessalonians 2:3, 6-12) In time, writes English philosopher Bertrand Russell, the original Christian congregation was changed into a religious organization that “would astonish Jesus, and even Paul.”
Genuine Christianity Restored
The record is clear. Since the death of the apostles, Christ has not been in much of what has taken place in the name of Christianity. However, that does not mean that Jesus has failed to keep his promise to be with his followers “all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matthew 28:20) We can be sure that ever since he said those words, there have been faithful individuals among whom “the memory of Jesus Christ [has been] activated in theory and practice.” Jesus Christ has kept his promise to support such ones as they have endeavored to show the love that marks true Christians and to remain loyal to the truths that he taught.
Even better, Jesus promised that in the last days of this system of things, he would gather his faithful disciples into a clearly identifiable Christian congregation that he would use to accomplish his will. (Matthew 24:14, 45-47) He is right now using that congregation to gather together “a great crowd” of men, women, and children “out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,” and he is uniting them under his headship into “one flock” under “one shepherd.”—Revelation 7:9, 14-17; John 10:16; Ephesians 4:11-16.
Turn away, then, from any institutions or organizations that have besmirched the name of Christ and defamed Christianity over the past two thousand years. Otherwise, as Jesus Christ told the apostle John, you could “receive part of [their] plagues” when God executes his judgment on them in the near future. (Revelation 1:1; 18:4,*5) Make it your resolve to be among those spoken about by the prophet Micah when he said that “in the final part of the days,” true worshippers—adherents of true Christianity—would listen to God’s instructions and “walk in his paths” of restored pure worship. (Micah 4:1-4)
Blacktail
Member
Trinity
John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (King James Version) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. (John 1:14) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God.
Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” (A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” (The New Testament in an Improved Version) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” (The Translator’s New Testament) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. Instead, because of his high position among God’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”
Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.
For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.
Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?
Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?
The Scriptures also speak of spirit persons or angels as gods. For example, 2*Corinthians 4:4 says, “The god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.” Here the wicked angel Satan the Devil is called “god.”
Also at that time powerful humans were commonly called “god.” For example, the Seleucid king Antiochus IV, who ruled from 175-163*B.C.E., styled himself Theos Epiphanes (“God Manifest”) on coins. And the first-century Roman emperor Domitian affected the honor of being “Lord and God.” The Bible, too, acknowledges powerful persons as “gods,” saying, “There are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords
As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.—Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15
John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (King James Version) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. (John 1:14) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God.
Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” (A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” (The New Testament in an Improved Version) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” (The Translator’s New Testament) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. Instead, because of his high position among God’s creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”
Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.
For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.
Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?
Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?
The Scriptures also speak of spirit persons or angels as gods. For example, 2*Corinthians 4:4 says, “The god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers.” Here the wicked angel Satan the Devil is called “god.”
Also at that time powerful humans were commonly called “god.” For example, the Seleucid king Antiochus IV, who ruled from 175-163*B.C.E., styled himself Theos Epiphanes (“God Manifest”) on coins. And the first-century Roman emperor Domitian affected the honor of being “Lord and God.” The Bible, too, acknowledges powerful persons as “gods,” saying, “There are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords
As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.—Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15
kvothe
Member
also please note that many, not all (I dont want to over generalize here), exhibit nothing else relating to Jesus about their lives aside from their tattoo. I am thinking of many performers and athletes who have that tattoo, or a religious themed tattoo and live very immoral lives. I know we are not to judge and this does sound judgmental, but a rapper rapping about drugs, how many women he has sex with, and money honestly doesnt know, or apply what he/she does know about God to their lives. Same with the way some athletes live. No one is perfect, I certainly need much help and improvement, but flaunting sin, which is basically how many live, is wrong. And no I cant think of any off the top of my head because I am not familiar with rap or sports really, but I have seen some.
On the ohter hand, there are a couple very devoted men at my churhch who when younger got tattoos of skulls, etc, and now are older men who have been in church and serving the Lord for decades.
vidapreta
Well-known member
Yes i've known people with Jesus Tattoos that pretty much have the tattoos just for show.
Flaw
Well-known member
You can debate about the name of God, it is valid to say that. There's a lot of research involved there. What is un-debatable though is that God has a name. It was represented as the tetragrammaton in the hebrew scriptures.Why has Gods name been ignored!? It basically has slowly been taken out of print as time went on. In particular the 19th century. Since we would both agree that this world is close to a end and the devil is working very hard wouldn't it be like him to try to get rid of the name of God? Two of the most well respected bibles, The KJV and the ASV use the name Jehovah as the name of God. So that is what I will use. I don't think it's a coincidence that so recently the name has been removed. It was used plentiful before the late 19th century.
Blacktail
Member
The Bible in Living English (by Steven T. Byington) also uses “Jehovah” right through the Hebrew text. In his Preface, Byington says concerning “Jehovah”: “The spelling and the pronunciation are not highly important. What is highly important is to keep it clear that this is a personal name.” The name of the most exalted Person in the universe is unique, exclusive, incomparable, sublime.
Those who object to the use of “Jehovah” might be said to “strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel!” (Matt. 23:24) How so? In that they make much of the correct pronunciation of God’s name, and yet they seldom if ever use it but prefer to call him “God” or “Lord,” which are mere titles, there being many called “lords” and “gods.”—1*Cor. 8:5, 6.
Whether you call him Yahweh, Jehovah or any other transliteration he does indeed have a name that is used often enough in a book considered inspired of God, to easily deduce that he liked being called by a personal name and that it should be used and free of superstition.
Those who object to the use of “Jehovah” might be said to “strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel!” (Matt. 23:24) How so? In that they make much of the correct pronunciation of God’s name, and yet they seldom if ever use it but prefer to call him “God” or “Lord,” which are mere titles, there being many called “lords” and “gods.”—1*Cor. 8:5, 6.
Whether you call him Yahweh, Jehovah or any other transliteration he does indeed have a name that is used often enough in a book considered inspired of God, to easily deduce that he liked being called by a personal name and that it should be used and free of superstition.
Flaw
Well-known member
I own a copy of that bible because byington thought it was very important to have a name for God in there just to show he does have a personal name. I completely agree. I believe it's extemely important and the name has seemed to be lost in today's world. The name of God was found 6,828 times in the Hebrew texts. Don't you think God wouldn't have put his name in there if he didn't want people to use it? Especially that many times!
The name Jehovah also appears in Darby's version and Young's literal version over 6,800 times. Even William Tyndale's translation all the way back in 1530, even before the KJV had a name for God. He used Iehovah. It is written in his forward "Iehovah is God's name... Moreover, as oft as thou seeist LORD in great letters (except there be any error in the printing) it is in Hebrew Iehovah."
omni
Active member
Disregarding Jesus’ words, the Catholic Church gives the title “Father” to all of priests, and “Holy Father” to the Pope. “Holy Father” is used only once in the entire Bible and it is a reference to God
Matthew 23:8-12
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
John 17:11
11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
"Holy" is a title reserved to God alone,
Revelation 15:4
“Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy” 4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.
All nations will come
and worship before you,
for your righteous acts have been revealed.”
Matthew 23:8-12
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
John 17:11
11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
"Holy" is a title reserved to God alone,
Revelation 15:4
“Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy” 4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.
All nations will come
and worship before you,
for your righteous acts have been revealed.”
BUCKNUTS
Board Supporter
I have no issue with the name of God being considered Jehovah but it shouldn't be considered THE name of God. It's pretty clear from my research on the subject that it is a creation of the Masoretes. An interesting study is of the 7 names of God in the OT. Using the name Jehovah it would look like this: Jehovah jireh (Gen 22:14)= “The Lord will provide a sacrifice”
Jehovah rapha (Exodus 15:26)= “The Lord our Healer”
Jehovah nissi (Exodus 17:15)=“The Lord our Banner”
Jehovah shalom (Judges 6:24)=“The Lord our Peace”
Jehovah raah (Psalms 23:1)= “The Lord our Shepherd”
Jehovah tsidkenu (Jeremiah 23:6)=“The Lord our Righteousness”
Jehovah shammah (Ezekiel 48:35)= “The Lord is Present”
BUCKNUTS
Board Supporter
Another example of the significance of Names in scripture and there sometimes hidden meaning can be found in a study of the names in Genesis. Here's the Gospel message hidden within the genealogy in Genesis.
Adam = Man
Seth = Appointed
Enosh = Mortal
Kenan = Sorrow;
Mahalalel = The Blessed God
Jared = Shall come down
Enoch = Teaching
Methuselah = His death shall bring
Lamech = The Despairing
Noah = Rest, or comfort.
Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.
Adam = Man
Seth = Appointed
Enosh = Mortal
Kenan = Sorrow;
Mahalalel = The Blessed God
Jared = Shall come down
Enoch = Teaching
Methuselah = His death shall bring
Lamech = The Despairing
Noah = Rest, or comfort.
Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.
kvothe
Member
Flaw
Well-known member
What you say would be "THE" name of God then? No matter what way you cut it or translate it , The tetragrammaton can't be translated to Jesus. Neither can it be translated to "yeshua", which was thought to be the Hebrew or Aramaic name for Jesus. Each has his separate personal name. God had one name and will always have one name.
Micah 4:5 "For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever."
Psalms 73: 17 "His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed. 18Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things. 19And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
kvothe
Member
Matthew 22: 36-40
36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
I love this, what a great summary. I honestly tell myself each day while in the shower that I will do my best to obey these two commands. If a person were to do their best to obey these commands they would live a great life. It immediately puts self into 3rd place. Reminds me of another great quote
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
I really want to be a disciple and not just a believer. I say a paraphrase of the above each morning as well, Lord, send me where you want, to do what you want, to who you want, in the way you want. I am not there yet, on either of these things, but I want it and with the Lords spirit I will get closer and better each day.
36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
I love this, what a great summary. I honestly tell myself each day while in the shower that I will do my best to obey these two commands. If a person were to do their best to obey these commands they would live a great life. It immediately puts self into 3rd place. Reminds me of another great quote
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
I really want to be a disciple and not just a believer. I say a paraphrase of the above each morning as well, Lord, send me where you want, to do what you want, to who you want, in the way you want. I am not there yet, on either of these things, but I want it and with the Lords spirit I will get closer and better each day.
Flaw
Well-known member
1 cor 13: "4 Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.8 Love never fails.
BUCKNUTS
Board Supporter
I think THE name of God is the tetragrammaton YHWH. The correct pronunciation is not really known and even the addition of vowels to create the name Yahweh has never been completely agreed upon in Judaism and as I've said before the name Jehovah is a 6th century creation. I have never made the argument that the tetragrammaton can be translated as Jesus.
Flaw
Well-known member
But when someone asks you "What is the name of your God or what is God's name?" How would you answer? Do you answer Jesus? See what I'm saying? That wouldn't be correct even by your knowledge. If you acknowledge God has a name, you know it's not Jesus and you don't use it, it's the same as ignoring it. That has to be something to think about..
BUCKNUTS
Board Supporter
I tell them my Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ and that would be absolutely correct. In my mind the Bible clearly eludes to the triune nature of God although the word Trinity is not used. God the Father . (1 Peter 1:2)
Jesus as God. (John 1:1-3&14-18, John 20:28-29, 1 John 1:1-4&5:20, Philippians 2:5-8, Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 22:12-20) and the Holy Spirit as God. (John 14:16-17, John 15:26, John 16:7-15, Acts 5:3-4, Acts 13:2, 1 Corinthians 12:4-18, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 10:15-18) There are many mant more scriptures I could quote here but I feel this is sufficient.
Flaw
Well-known member
My lord and savior is Jesus Christ too but that alludes from the question. Is god's name Jesus? We both know the answer is NO. Gonna quote from the american standard version.
Isaiah 42:8 "I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images. "
Some bible translations say "I am lord or the lord, that is my name" but Lord isn't a personal name. Lord is a title. The name of God should be there.
Look at 2 definitions of Lord according to merriam-webster:
1 one having power and authority over others
2 one that has achieved mastery or that exercises leadership or great power in some area .
By these definitions Christ is a lord. He has superiority over us humans and other creatures in the heavens. He mastered the world, he showed leadership here and because of that God gave him a lot of authority.
Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
That is why he is my lord, but he's not almighty because the authority was given to him. You can't take something you already have
Many men have been lords also cause they have been given authority to rule other men. Only the almighty LORD can give and not take because he has it all.
Psalms 73:17 shows that God has a name and it will always be that name. Same God in the OT as in the NT and forever. It would seem if Jesus was the name of God he would of eventually been referred back to his old name but he wasn't..A name is a personal thing. How would you feel if you told a person over a thousand times what your name was and they still say "Hey what's up man?" or "hey boss", not "john" or whatever your real name is? You'd eventually be like, "dude I told you my name why do you keep calling me 'man'. You'd also feel like that person could care less about who you are. When people don't use God's name I feel like God feels like they could care less about who he is. A name makes you who you are. It Distinquishes us from eachother.
I know if you recongnize God has a name you'd have to recongnize the possibility of God and Christ being separate. This might be just the biggest evidence of their separation from eachother.
omni
Active member
Notice the very beginning of the "Model Prayer" as Jesus instructed people on the way to pray...
Matthew 6:9
9Thus therefore pray *ye*: Our Father who art in the heavens, let thy name be sanctified,
How can God's name be sanctified if you just call him LORD? If a person refuses to sanctify God's name, are you going against Jesus? If a person goes against Jesus, can he really call himself a Christian?
This one scripture shows that God and Jesus wanted people know and use Gods name. Wouldn't it be an evil thing to try and erase Gods name from the bible. I can think of someone evil who would want that, but I wouldn't take his side.
Revelation 22:18-19
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Matthew 6:9
9Thus therefore pray *ye*: Our Father who art in the heavens, let thy name be sanctified,
How can God's name be sanctified if you just call him LORD? If a person refuses to sanctify God's name, are you going against Jesus? If a person goes against Jesus, can he really call himself a Christian?
This one scripture shows that God and Jesus wanted people know and use Gods name. Wouldn't it be an evil thing to try and erase Gods name from the bible. I can think of someone evil who would want that, but I wouldn't take his side.
Revelation 22:18-19
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
kvothe
Member
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
this is a great quote. I love how the Bible and God connect love with obedience. I watched John Hagee last night and he said a couple things that made me think of think of this. Law/obedience without love gives you a self rigtheous pharisee. Love without law gives a spiritual hippie. Neither one is what we want, both are wrong. Love with obedience brings a disciple, a real disciple and that is what I want. You look at the 10 commandments, the first four are in relation to God, and the last 6 are in relation to others, and all are summarized in the two great commandments.
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
this is a great quote. I love how the Bible and God connect love with obedience. I watched John Hagee last night and he said a couple things that made me think of think of this. Law/obedience without love gives you a self rigtheous pharisee. Love without law gives a spiritual hippie. Neither one is what we want, both are wrong. Love with obedience brings a disciple, a real disciple and that is what I want. You look at the 10 commandments, the first four are in relation to God, and the last 6 are in relation to others, and all are summarized in the two great commandments.
Flaw
Well-known member
Like I said before, where have you seen the name of God been taking out of the scriptures? It's more recent in the 19th century. For the majority of history everyone knew the name of God. What do people do when something new comes out? They all want it and automatically assume it's better. New versions like the NKJV and the NIV flood into churches and what do you know? God's name is no longer in there. Gods name taken out of bibles lets you know that the devils time is short. He's gonna do everything he can to influence men to not know GOD or his name.
BUCKNUTS
Board Supporter
No my LORD(God) and Savior is Jesus. This is what the Apostle Thomas said.
John 20:24-29 (New King James Version)
Seeing and Believing
24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”
So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[a] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Please notice that Jesus never rebuked Thomas for saying “My Lord and my God!” if Jesus were who you claim HE then assuredly he would have been mortified by what would then be a totally blasphemous statement by Thomas but in fact he accepted it. That would be impossible if he didn't see himself as God.
Gonna quote from the american standard version.
Isaiah 42:8 "I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images. "
Some bible translations say "I am lord or the lord, that is my name" but Lord isn't a personal name. Lord is a title. The name of God should be there.
Look at 2 definitions of Lord according to merriam-webster:
1 one having power and authority over others
2 one that has achieved mastery or that exercises leadership or great power in some area .
By these definitions Christ is a lord. He has superiority over us humans and other creatures in the heavens. He mastered the world, he showed leadership here and because of that God gave him a lot of authority.
Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
That is why he is my lord, but he's not almighty because the authority was given to him. You can't take something you already have
Many men have been lords also cause they have been given authority to rule other men. Only the almighty LORD can give and not take because he has it all.
Yhwh = God the father, Jesus = God the son and the third person of the trinity is the Holy Spirit all distinct but entirely one. Many have called it a mystery through the centuries but I have seen many examples in nature and man himself is a triune being.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (New King James Version)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
As my God said from the beginning:
Genesis 1:26 (New King James Version)
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[a] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
My LOrd God and Savior Jesus Christ commanded the elements and they obeyed, he raised the dead and walked on water and He forgave sins on His own authority only God can do these things on His own authority.
This is a very important point to you but I see it as classic legalism. My earthly father's name was Carl but I never referred to him by that name (1)it would have been disrespectful (2) We had a very personal relationship so I called him Dad. So it is with my Heavenly Father, even more so.
Romans 8:15 (New King James Version)
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6 (New King James Version)
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
I have posted numerous things from both the Scriptures and from the early church that are proof that the Apostles and all of their disciples understood Jesus was God incarnate. We could go back and forth forever and you could never change my mind because I have studied the Bible for 2 decades and I know very well what I believe and why I believe it. Your point of view is not new it was also known to the early church and then as now it was believed only by a tiny minority.
BUCKNUTS
Board Supporter
I was thinking the same exact thing.
kvothe
Member
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
It is readily apparent that these verses are speaking of Jesus and that they are proclaiming Jesus is God. If you dont see that, honestly you may be thinking too hard about things, or missing the forest for the trees.
Exodus 20:1-3
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
This is the first commandment, it is very apparent that God is saying He is their God. Much of the Old Testament was spent on God proving to Israel that He was not only their God, but He is the only God, the other ones are not real.
Psalm 115:2-7
2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where [is] now their God?
3 But our God [is] in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
4 Their idols [are] silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
This is in the same Bible as Johns Gospel and since the Gospel proclaims Jesus as God, put these two together and there can be no argument that Jesus is God and the God of the Old Testament and the Jesus of the New Testament are the same, and that according to the Bible He is the only real God.
1 John 2:22-24
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
dont be fooled by people using great words and impressive arguments, dont let yourself start thinking too much about this, be simple in this thing, sometimes we just need to take the Bible as meaning what it says.
The Biblical mystery of the trinity of God is something that we cannot comprehend in our humanity. There are things about God and His nature that we will not know until we see Him. He does His best to explain these things using symbolism and metaphors that we can understand, but we dont have perfect understanding, that is why faith is called faith. Think about trying to explain the fact that matter cant be created or destroyed to a 5 year old. I dont understand it myself, but it is the first real complicated thing that came to mind. Their mind is not developed enough to grasp it, you would have to use illustrations they are familiar with and that probably would not get the full message across, but hopefully you could give them a basic idea of what you are talking about. I believe the mystery of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and their relation to each other is one of those things to us. Just lean on faith, and not your own understanding.
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
I hope this helps
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
It is readily apparent that these verses are speaking of Jesus and that they are proclaiming Jesus is God. If you dont see that, honestly you may be thinking too hard about things, or missing the forest for the trees.
Exodus 20:1-3
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
This is the first commandment, it is very apparent that God is saying He is their God. Much of the Old Testament was spent on God proving to Israel that He was not only their God, but He is the only God, the other ones are not real.
Psalm 115:2-7
2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where [is] now their God?
3 But our God [is] in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
4 Their idols [are] silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
This is in the same Bible as Johns Gospel and since the Gospel proclaims Jesus as God, put these two together and there can be no argument that Jesus is God and the God of the Old Testament and the Jesus of the New Testament are the same, and that according to the Bible He is the only real God.
1 John 2:22-24
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
dont be fooled by people using great words and impressive arguments, dont let yourself start thinking too much about this, be simple in this thing, sometimes we just need to take the Bible as meaning what it says.
The Biblical mystery of the trinity of God is something that we cannot comprehend in our humanity. There are things about God and His nature that we will not know until we see Him. He does His best to explain these things using symbolism and metaphors that we can understand, but we dont have perfect understanding, that is why faith is called faith. Think about trying to explain the fact that matter cant be created or destroyed to a 5 year old. I dont understand it myself, but it is the first real complicated thing that came to mind. Their mind is not developed enough to grasp it, you would have to use illustrations they are familiar with and that probably would not get the full message across, but hopefully you could give them a basic idea of what you are talking about. I believe the mystery of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and their relation to each other is one of those things to us. Just lean on faith, and not your own understanding.
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
I hope this helps
BUCKNUTS
Board Supporter
:goodpost: I'm afraid it won't matter though. The fact that Jesus and all of His disciples understood his transcendent nature is crystal clear in scripture, it is alluded to over and over again in scripture and in the writings of nearly all early church writers. For example Justin Martyr baptised in the name of all 3 persons of the Trinity in the early 2nd century, Tertullian (c.160-220 AD), even devoted an entire book, Against Praxeas, to defending the Trinity. Tertullian is largely credited with coinuing the phrase Trinity. I could list literally 100s more examples of the belief in the Trinity from the time just following the apostolic age but again it would do no good. The heresy of Arianism developed in the 4th century and was well known and completely rejected by the vast majority of the church, sadly thanks to works of pure fiction like the DaVinci Code they have become resurrgent in the modern age.
kvothe
Member
I hope this doesnt sound condescending or overly negative to those who dont believe in the trinity, but we have done our duty. the Bible tells us to be faithful to the Lord, to defend the faith, but it also says to avoid no-win arguments, and that it is not our persuasion, it is not our job, but the Holy Spirit to work in the hearts for belief.
I believe that after presentation of the Gospel, or in this case an important support of the Gospel, it is up to the individual to choose to believe and the Holy Spirit to convince them. There comes a point where more talk from me, does more harm than good, and the best we can do is pray out of sincere care for the person, not to prove we are right, they are wrong, but to bring them into a closer relationship, better understanding of God.
I just read Matthew 25 today and it has the parable of the three servants, though the two who worked presented different amounts, one had more to give back to the master, both were given the same praise, well done good and FAITHFUL servant. Both were faithful in working for the Lord, though one had more "success", yet it appears both were esteemed the same by the Lord. A beautiful thing.
I must sound like a broken record, every day I say "I love this passage..."
Flaw
Well-known member
We can, I presented my case and you presented yours. We can all take something away from eachother though. You gotta go where your heart leads you. If there's something I'm missing I hope you would pray that I would find it, If there's something your missing, I will pray that you will find it
I'm ok having a minority point of view because as we see a common theme in the bible is a minority found favor in God's eye's. Never a majority.
Genesis 6: 5 "And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah."
It's crazy how so many hundreds of years later We fast forward to today and this scripture still applys. We see wickedness everywhere and evil is still the majority. Few will be saved just as in noah's day.