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Ergopharm TestForce VS Primordials TCF-1

dacookie said:
Who says its better/you have to take it at the gym?One claims it is more soluble and easyier on the stomach.The other has a flavour and is a liquid and is cheaper.
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We've utilized sodium D-aspartic acid which is exactly what was used in this study showing a 42% increase in testosterone after 12 days of use (3.12g/day). Essentially, we've taken what was shown to be effective clinically and made it into a flavored solution.

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I hope you get around to trying our product line. I really think you'll enjoy them. If you have any questions about anything, just let me know.

-John
 
HereToStudy said:
Where was it shown to be more soluble? I assume this is based on being D-Aspartate Calcium Chelate. If it allows it to be more soluble thats good, but.... The study used sodium D-aspartate. Sure the D-Aspartate is what we are looking for, but if a human study used a specific product, why assume that a varied version works just as well. I am not saying it doesn't, merely that an assumption isnt always best.

Before I continue I will note that I think both are good products.

I am not saying at the gym necessarily, but there are numerous people like me who it makes sense to dose things while at work, and the convenience of being able to quickly draw and take it is awesome. I can even just carry the capped syringe.

As for flavor, why not have something that tastes good?

Cheaper is always nice....
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Look at the picture.Theres also a post about it on PA's forum.Yes assumptions isnt always best but by taking this product your also assuming it doesnt degrade in water over time or whatever that liquid is.So you kinda shot yourself in the foot :P

But if your short on cash the answer is obvious really, unless someone tries both and notices a profound difference.
 
Trauma1 said:
We've utilized sodium D-aspartic acid which is exactly what was used in this study showing a 42% increase in testosterone after 12 days of use (3.12g/day). Essentially, we've taken what was shown to be effective clinically and made it into a flavored solution.

-snip-

I hope you get around to trying our product line. I really think you'll enjoy them. If you have any questions about anything, just let me know.

-John
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Well I see that people think highly of your company here.Your vitually unheard of on another site.But as far as I can see most your products are related to PHs and im not the right age yet.I might give your product a go anyway and compare it with testforce.
 
dacookie said:
Well I see that people think highly of your company here.Your vitually unheard of on another site.But as far as I can see most your products are related to PHs and im not the right age yet.I might give your product a go anyway and compare it with testforce.
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Oh how comforting it is to hear someone say that.
I would recommend giving Primordial a try, they are far and wide my favorite supplement company. They do have a good amount of natural products that are very worth trying out as well.
 
dacookie said:
Well I see that people think highly of your company here.Your vitually unheard of on another site.But as far as I can see most your products are related to PHs and im not the right age yet.I might give your product a go anyway and compare it with testforce.
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Really? We're on quite a few of the bigger online bodybuilding boards; many more to come in the next 6 months. We're always looking to continue to improve upon our availability to answer questions and customer support around the internet.

More than half of our product line isn't PH-related. Have you checked out our website? What type of products do you use on a regular basis? We have a 7 day summer same going on now as well; the prices are very nice! :)

If you do have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. We definitely look forward to your feedback if you choose to try our product.

-John
 
dacookie said:
Who says its better/you have to take it at the gym?One claims it is more soluble and easyier on the stomach.The other has a flavour and is a liquid and is cheaper.
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Are you saying that D-Aspartate Calcium Chelate is more soluble and easier on the stomach? I have still yet to see tests run on PA's product, let alone D-Aspartate Calcium Chelate.

I have people doing blood tests while using TCF-1 as we speak, I'm hoping to have final results within a week. And Sodium D-Aspartate has been shown in previous tests to boost total test by 42% in 12 days.

Primordial is fairly well known on multiple forums, but we do have a lot of followers here. We've sponsored this forum for a while. Many of the members here have tried our products and love them.

As for price; Invalid Link Removedduring the Invalid Link Removed


I also find it interesting how these "new" forum members continue to pop up out of nowhere and try to argue that PA has a superior d-aspartic acid supplement. As I've told the others, we don't mind new reps for other companies, but please identify yourself so that everyone recognizes that your opinion will likely be fairly one-sided.
:nutkick:
 
Trauma1 said:
Really? We're on quite a few of the bigger online bodybuilding boards; many more to come in the next 6 months. We're always looking to continue to improve upon our availability to answer questions and customer support around the internet.

More than half of our product line isn't PH-related. Have you checked out our website? What type of products do you use on a regular basis? We have a 7 day summer same going on now as well; the prices are very nice! :)

If you do have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. We definitely look forward to your feedback if you choose to try our product.

-John
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I liked the look of the green tea product and the phyto-testosterone but I dunno what these are or what they do: Total Polyphenols, EGCG, Testofen (Fenugreek extract standardized for 50% Fenuside)

I know of 7-Methoxy Isoflavone but I dont know about its efficacy.

Is this sale on at nutraplanet also or just the main site?

And to Jimbo, PA is not a company but im somehow his rep and he sends me PHs for every good shill post I make about the products he formulated.
 
dacookie said:
Who says its better/you have to take it at the gym?One claims it is more soluble and easyier on the stomach.The other has a flavour and is a liquid and is cheaper.
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judging by a video review I saw, posted on this board, the solubility of testforce isn't really anything to write home about. I have said it before its hard to compete on a commodity. A product with really only one ingredient? Basically dependent on which company you want to support if you dont care about taste and how its dosed.....
 
fightbackhxc said:
judging by a video review I saw, posted on this board, the solubility of testforce isn't really anything to write home about. I have said it before its hard to compete on a commodity. A product with really only one ingredient? Basically dependent on which company you want to support if you dont care about taste and how its dosed.....
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Can you post it?i really would like to see, it may change my mind about it.
 
dacookie said:
And to Jimbo, PA is not a company but im somehow his rep and he sends me PHs for every good shill post I make about the products he formulated.
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I know PA is not a company, he just owns one and comes out with the products. So I refer to them as being his products. So are you admitting to working for him or are you just being a smart ass?
 
fightbackhxc said:
judging by a video review I saw, posted on this board, the solubility of testforce isn't really anything to write home about. I have said it before its hard to compete on a commodity. A product with really only one ingredient? Basically dependent on which company you want to support if you dont care about taste and how its dosed.....
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The difference in solubility is quite significant just from viewing. I think their is a picture of it on nutraplanets website when you look up testforce.
 
I cant post links yet, but here is my review below. hopefully you can figure it out :) I did have to use PP TCF-1 for a little bit. I could tell a difference when switching products though.

prohormoneforum.com/supplement-reviews/32077-e-pharms-testforce-pct-review.html
 
Primal2 said:
I cant post links yet, but here is my review below. hopefully you can figure it out :) I did have to use PP TCF-1 for a little bit. I could tell a difference when switching products though.

prohormoneforum.com/supplement-reviews/32077-e-pharms-testforce-pct-review.html
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Why would you switch products?
 
Jbrooks said:
any coupon codes? Sponser10 hasnt worked in some time
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For Primordial? the code sponsor10 still works, as long as there isn't a sale going on. switching the e and o might have made the difference. Any sale will override the code. Right now is the Invalid Link Removed.
 
Primal2 said:
I cant post links yet, but here is my review below. hopefully you can figure it out :) I did have to use PP TCF-1 for a little bit. I could tell a difference when switching products though.

prohormoneforum.com/supplement-reviews/32077-e-pharms-testforce-pct-review.html
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In all honesty, I really don't see how you can make an accurate anecdotal judgement in having used both products. The effects of sodium D-aspartic acid start to take effect from the 6 day mark on as evinced by the study. This is not a slam at you in anyway. I think it was a good review and this is just my own observation.

Once again, I think it's interesting in what PA has done, but in all reality there is nothing outside pure anecdotal feedback to document anything in terms of effect. There is no clinical scientific data that supports a better efficacy in any way at this point. We have blood work being done on some testers now, so the results will be posted in the near future. This is no hate at PA either. As I stated before, I have respect for him and his work. Being a health care professional myself that has a good deal of experience in research, I like to to see the science support the claims.

In fact, I'm on a pretty suppressive cycle right now. I may document blood work effects during my PCT with out TCF-1.

-John
 
fightbackhxc said:
Why would you switch products?
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if you read the review you will see why.

cliff notes: couldn't get it when I wanted to start trying out d-aspartic acid. figured something is better than nothing. tcf-1 definitely works, just from my opinion only and not science backed, i like testforce better.
 
the pp product states take 12 days on and 12 off,

pa's says you can take it indefinitely.

any comments from experienced users yet?
 
dacookie said:
Dunno what your on about, 95% dissolved and he didnt even shake it in a shaker vigourously for example.
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Well im just saying, from a product that touts amazing solubility it didnt really dissolve amazingly. It didn't dissolve bad either. But after letting it sit, stirring pretty good and waiting there was still a clump in the water. So, IMO, solubility cannot really be a means of separating the competition.
 
ax1 said:
the pp product states take 12 days on and 12 off,

pa's says you can take it indefinitely.

any comments from experienced users yet?
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Only bloodwork could provide the feedback you are looking for. You can take TCF-1 and Testforce as long as you want. The studies produced were only 12 days long. Anything after that is pretty much up in the air. In my experience its always been best to take breaks from supplements, they just seem a bit more effective after a small break.
 
fightbackhxc said:
Well im just saying, from a product that touts amazing solubility it didnt really dissolve amazingly. It didn't dissolve bad either. But after letting it sit, stirring pretty good and waiting there was still a clump in the water. So, IMO, solubility cannot really be a means of separating the competition.
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on a forum he comments on often, he mentioned he is fixing the refining process during mass manufacture so that the clumping wont happen in the future.
 
Primal2 said:
on a forum he comments on often, he mentioned he is fixing the refining process during mass manufacture so that the clumping wont happen in the future.
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That is what its all about. People can't seem to recognize that though. So many times a company brings out a good product yet it may need tweaked in some ways. I would assume as problems arise that would be the best thing to do :)
 
fightbackhxc said:
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Hai gaiz that's my vid. :)


Anyways I'm using Test Force right now as noted in the video. Nothing overly noticeable one way or another. I will however be ordering a bottle of TCF-1 simply because the sale is so good and I want to keep running it after the Test Force.

And yeah the taste of Test Force isnt great. If you're mixing it then it shouldnt matter.

But as far as price/quality/overall goes right now I'd buy the PP product because of the sale. Too good to pass up.
 
heavydeadlift said:
No need for a 12 day on off cycle....that was just a marketing ploy by primordial to sell their measly 12 serving bottle

Just run it untill you want to stop
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It was actually based on the study be it ploy or not still it was born on facts.
 
Trauma1 said:
In all honesty, I really don't see how you can make an accurate anecdotal judgement in having used both products. The effects of sodium D-aspartic acid start to take effect from the 6 day mark on as evinced by the study. This is not a slam at you in anyway. I think it was a good review and this is just my own observation.

Once again, I think it's interesting in what PA has done, but in all reality there is nothing outside pure anecdotal feedback to document anything in terms of effect. There is no clinical scientific data that supports a better efficacy in any way at this point. We have blood work being done on some testers now, so the results will be posted in the near future. This is no hate at PA either. As I stated before, I have respect for him and his work. Being a health care professional myself that has a good deal of experience in research, I like to to see the science support the claims.

In fact, I'm on a pretty suppressive cycle right now. I may document blood work effects during my PCT with out TCF-1.

-John
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John, I would like your opinion on the differences between TCF-1 and bulk DAA that's being sold at NP and other sites, other then the taste. Your expertise is appreciated.
 
I just finished my first 12 days on tcf 1, around day 6 or 7 started really noticing libido, mood improvements, and much increased backne, I do not have bloodwork but it seems from my experience it boosted T quite well.
 
Test300 said:
I am using the PP version now. Day 5, nothing to report.

I did register on their board and ask them if it was safe to take after my stoked/testopro/formadrol stack.

They said yes and recommended Sustain Alpha for recovery from that stack. I noticed it had a lot of the same stuff my first stack had, and the guy on there was saying I needed to recover from the Formadrol, but it doesn't have anything steroidal in it, does it? I know it used to have ATD or some equivalent, but now it all looks like natural ingredients.

If this thread is still going on, I will update you on the progress up until day 15.
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Why would you need a test booster to recover from a test boosting stack?
 
ax1 said:
the pp product states take 12 days on and 12 off,

pa's says you can take it indefinitely.

any comments from experienced users yet?
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i used 12days on 12days off and still felt its effects for about a week after last dose.
 
Primal2 said:
it tastes good of course. ;p
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Dude can you please just come out and mention what company you work for? Everytime I see you it is either talking up Test Force or making snide comments about TCF-1. I consider them both great products, but constantly seeing you pop up in DAA threads, makes me wish you would just behonest and say who you represent. Your only at 45 post count, the fact that I even know who you are shows that you are in one too many of those threads.
 
Nevermind, that is not necessary, I went through your post history:
Primal2 said:
I researched this heavily before taking. Most the crap that is peddled on this board is totally unnecessary. You just have to wade through the BS and find the diamond in the rough. This to me seems to be that diamond. Time will tell of course. :) So far, my pct results speak for itself.

He has a Q&A section on prohormone forum. Anyone here can ask him whatever you want about DAA. Maybe that will help some people on the fence. :)
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Primal2 said:
Sweet man, good luck. I look for your review later on. :)
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^This one was in response to someone saying they will try test force.
Primal2 said:
The difference in solubility is quite significant just from viewing. I think their is a picture of it on nutraplanets website when you look up testforce.
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Primal2 said:
I cant post links yet, but here is my review below. hopefully you can figure it out :) I did have to use PP TCF-1 for a little bit. I could tell a difference when switching products though.

prohormoneforum.com/supplement-reviews/32077-e-pharms-testforce-pct-review.html
Click to expand...

Primal2 said:
if you read the review you will see why.

cliff notes: couldn't get it when I wanted to start trying out d-aspartic acid. figured something is better than nothing. tcf-1 definitely works, just from my opinion only and not science backed, i like testforce better.
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Primal2 said:
on a forum he comments on often, he mentioned he is fixing the refining process during mass manufacture so that the clumping wont happen in the future.
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Primal2 said:
According to PA, They did the study for 12 days, but recommend using it for 90 days.

I am still looking for where PA said it to link for you guys..

edit***

here you go

prohormoneforum.com/q-patrick-arnold/32190-d-aspartic-acid-suppressive.html#post581829

"the makers of the italian DAA actually recommend using it for 90 days straight"
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Primal2 said:
330 is not to low, it is with in range. If anything, look into test boosters. Try some e-pharm testforce. Do like two scoops a day for a week and then one scoop a day till you run out.
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Primal2 said:
The newer tubs arent as bad. I think he changed it up. It also dissolves perfect now. You cant even tell it is in water anymore. He recently said he was changing the way it is manufactured.

If you cant handle the taste then mix it with kool aid or something. No offense, but man up a little bit. :)

not going to get into why TestForce is better cause this is a pro TCF-1 thread :)
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Primal2 said:
it tastes good of course. ;p
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Primal2 said:
That actually wasn't what I was talking about. Since you bring it up, it reminded me of something though. The people who did the study, the one you refer to as your own quite often, recommend taking it for 90 days. Why would the people who payed for the study recommend taking it for 90 days? PA said this on another forum. They did the study for 12 days cause that's what they paid for, that is all.

I have no agenda. I have taken both products and made my conclusion. I am sorry if it's at odds with yours. :)

Again, this is your promo ad here. I am not trying to make a big deal.
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You don't need to admit anything a clear agenda is present. Negg'd. I have more respect for the company that openly addresses themselves as employees/reps then uses bull**** sly tactics to counter competition.
 
I don't think he is a rep, I may be mistaking but I doubt he is repping for the company because PA only took in a few from that board...

But, I can't see what the issue is though?
 
hardknock said:
I don't think he is a rep, I may be mistaking but I doubt he is repping for the company because PA only took in a few from that board...

But, I can't see what the issue is though?
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Its a matter of honesty. It wouldn't be bad to have a rep from Ergo here. More company reps = more information. I am glad Primordial reps here becaue I use some of their products, and can easily get an answer from them if needed. But, they clearly designate themselves as so, and more importantly sponsor this forum and keep it alive. He has clearly demonstrated that he is here for a purpose other then being an active member.
 
Well he is doing just like everyone else. Only those are pretty much the only posts I have ever seen him post. Just seemed like once these threads came up alot of new people with low posts started flooding these threads. Its ok to like one product over another. I blatantly say everytime I will use TCF-1 over testforce just because its so dang easy to dose and tastes amazing. Would I turn down using testforce? Absolutely not. Is TCF-1 one better than testforce? Who knows.
 
I'm a Primordial Rep, just in case there was any confusion. And as a Primordial Rep, I'd like to share this with you all.....


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In celebration of the sale extension, I give you....Boobies! :D
 

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I sat PA's product. It has usable form of calcium. But what it doesn't have is extra chemicals like flavorings and sucrlaose. I like PP, but some people need to pay attention to all the chemicals they are putting into their bodies from food and supplements. I mean, have you seen how many sups. have red dye no. 40 or yellow die number 6 just for an example. It may seem like a small thing and not a big deal for just one product. But go into your kitchen and read the ingredients and then add it all up. Take that times 365 days a year and then multiple years. It is no wonder lifestyle diseases have been on the rise. Then again, to most of you this kind of thing is not a big deal at all and not a part of your consciousness. Oh, and just because the FDA approves something, it doesn't mean jack. I am in the food industry and I know how these things work. It is a big charade.
 
I'm at work currently and one of the girls has nice boobies popping out her shirt, wish I could share them with all!
 
Vegking said:
I sat PA's product. It has usable form of calcium. But what it doesn't have is extra chemicals like flavorings and sucrlaose. I like PP, but some people need to pay attention to all the chemicals they are putting into their bodies from food and supplements. I mean, have you seen how many sups. have red dye no. 40 or yellow die number 6 just for an example. It may seem like a small thing and not a big deal for just one product. But go into your kitchen and read the ingredients and then add it all up. Take that times 365 days a year and then multiple years. It is no wonder lifestyle diseases have been on the rise. Then again, to most of you this kind of thing is not a big deal at all and not a part of your consciousness. Oh, and just because the FDA approves something, it doesn't mean jack. I am in the food industry and I know how these things work. It is a big charade.
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Let me know which one of these seems unnatural and/or might cause me to die early;

Distilled water, natural grape flavor, xanthan gum, sucralose, juice extract from purple carrot and hibiscus **, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate.

** For color.
 
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