Erase vs. Triazole - a comparison

McBain83

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I have tried three bottles of Erase and half a bottle of Triazole. This is the basis of this discussion. The graph represent how I personally have experienced the effects of these supplements, and I have some theories/comments:

- It seems to me that Erase gives an instant effect, but is quite short lived with regards to testo boosting.
- This means that Erase should be split into even doses over the day and taken before exercising
- The effect on estrogen with Erase lasts longer (as it has "killed" the estrogen) but there seems to be a slight backlash-effect from the short term high testlevel, giving a poor test/estradiol-ratio in the short term. I typically get stiff nipples in this period. We are typically talking a few hours after ingestion.
- Triazole does not given an immediate effect, but gives on average higher and more stable blood levels. Estrogen level is not as low as with Erase, giving a slightly softer but larger in terms of size.
- My appetite has been STRONG with Triazole. Not so strong with Erase.

My theory about erase is that Androst-3,5-dien-7,17-dione converts to an androgen (testosterone or other) and this gives the immediate effect, at the same time killing estrogen. Triazole works with different pathways. This is only a theory, feel free to debunk:)

Conclusion: Both have their merits. I think Erase is more important when cutting and Triazole is better when bulking. However, a combination seems to be the best.

Any comments?
 
I personally love Erase at 2 caps a day. I posted in the anti-aging forum about two guys I work with and do my weekend rides with. They are both on TRT at 100-150mg ew doses and take Erase as their anti-estrogen. It works for them from a man boob standpoint. Don't know about blood work, but I think the fact that an over the counter can be that effective says a lot for it.
 
POOR theory because IF it converted to an androgen, you would receive DOWN REGULATION OF THE HPTA. Please use some more logic next time. Better yet get some blood work.
 
andrew732 said:
POOR theory because IF it converted to an androgen, you would receive DOWN REGULATION OF THE HPTA. Please use some more logic next time. Better yet get some blood work.
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Hello Angry Bob.

How do we know it does not induce mild down regulation of the HPTA? I usually get sore nipples when the "hardening" wears off, indicating a poor test/estrogen balance. And at the same time, the definitive lack of estrogen would at the same time boost testosterone production, perhaps canceling the mild down regulation by an androgen. It may also be that the substance in it self gives an androgen-like effect, or that it somehow manages to yield a sharp rise in test levels that wears of quite quickly.

I don't know, but it does not seem to me that the rise in androgens is a result from lack of estrogen, as the estrogen level appear to be lowered for up to a few days after last intake.
 
Wait wait wait wait, you made this graph based on how you felt during using these products?
 
Yeah, he explains on the bottom that it is based on perception and feelings, not blood work. Kind of funny, but a cool approach.
 
The amount of blood work necessary to do this properly would render me anemic. However; I have had testicular cancer and know a thing or teo about high and low test-levels. Anyway, wish I could donthis as bloodwork.

I have blood on DAA. Test dropped about 16% but higher LH. Had good gains though. Could be random fluctuations during testing.
 
kisaj said:
Yeah, he explains on the bottom that it is based on perception and feelings, not blood work. Kind of funny, but a cool approach.
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This is by no means accurate science. But it is a way of illustrating perceived effects instead of writing a ton of text.
 
I believe Triazole has some bloods showing test boost > AI effects, as in both test being higher along with modest increase in E as well. I obviously haven't seen every set of bloods.

I have not seen any Erase bloods, but my impression is that it is more of a "true" AI rather than test booster.

Feel free to correct me on any of this if someone has compiled bloodwork.
 
D3Baseball said:
I believe Triazole has some bloods showing test boost > AI effects, as in both test being higher along with modest increase in E as well. I obviously haven't seen every set of bloods.

I have not seen any Erase bloods, but my impression is that it is more of a "true" AI rather than test booster.

Feel free to correct me on any of this if someone has compiled bloodwork.
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We posted a lot of blood work for Triazole prior to the products release, with updates following release. There's a graph depicting this at the bottom of the write-up on our website: Invalid Link Removed
 
Androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione does not convert to androgenic metabolites.

I think creating a graph based on feel is incredibly flawed. Whats the time frame consist of here? 1 day?

What different pathways would triazole work through if theyre both essentially AIs? What does appetite have to do with anything?
 
You have a very poor theory with absolutely no scientific backing. Fancy looking graph though.

Am i reading correct that one of the things you based your results on was stiffness of nipples?
 
D3Baseball said:
I believe Triazole has some bloods showing test boost > AI effects, as in both test being higher along with modest increase in E as well. I obviously haven't seen every set of bloods.

I have not seen any Erase bloods, but my impression is that it is more of a "true" AI rather than test booster.

Feel free to correct me on any of this if someone has compiled bloodwork.
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Guys have had bloodwork on this forum, search around. I was never a fan of company-released bloodwork as a customer. We knew Erase would become a fan favorite because people who have used Rx AI's use Erase and can feel the same feelings
 
nattydisaster said:
Guys have had bloodwork on this forum, search around. I was never a fan of company-released bloodwork as a customer. We knew Erase would become a fan favorite because people who have used Rx AI's use Erase and can feel the same feelings
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I've tried them both and like them both. I do love the new Erase Pro though. I did bloodwork while on it, testopro, and DAA. I did it over a period of 3 months. I got a quick spike in Test levels when I changed from erase to erase pro.

Both worked wonderfully for me (Triaz and Erase) and I judge by what I go with on Erase, Erase Pro, and Triaz by what is on sale at the time. (Erase Pro has been good since I take it EOD and I bought a bunch during the PES promos) Both companies are solid solid companies and I trust enough to take their supplements.
 
So you're comparing 3 full bottles to half a bottle.... Am I the only one that sees the idiocy in that?
 
McBain83 said:
How do we know it does not induce mild down regulation of the HPTA?
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I've got bloodwork after being on Erase at 2-3 caps a day for over a month, with no hormonal abnormalities. I think it's pretty safe to say that it doesn't down regulate the HPTA.

I'd be happy to share that bloodwork if you so desire.
 
PuZo said:
So you're comparing 3 full bottles to half a bottle.... Am I the only one that sees the idiocy in that?
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Well I'm touching my nipples for an answer and not sure how to answer that. ;-)

I kid.. I kid!

Honestly these conversations are great for AM. The OP is very much thinking in the right direction, just the method used isn't scientific enough to prove truths or even proper theories. It does make for nice intellectual conversation though. So kudos there!
 
ozarkaBRAND said:
I've got bloodwork after being on Erase at 2-3 caps a day for over a month, with no hormonal abnormalities. I think it's pretty safe to say that it doesn't down regulate the HPTA.

I'd be happy to share that bloodwork if you so desire.
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i would love to see your blood work.
 
I would be great have before and afters but I know how that goes. Your E2 doesn't appear to be particularly low as you might expect while using Erase. It's claimed to be really strong.
 
BBB said:
I would be great have before and afters but I know how that goes. Your E2 doesn't appear to be particularly low as you might expect while using Erase. It's claimed to be really strong.
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Seems to me on the higher end...
 
McBain83 said:
This is by no means accurate science. But it is a way of illustrating perceived effects instead of writing a ton of text.
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kevinhy said:
Androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione does not convert to androgenic metabolites.

I think creating a graph based on feel is incredibly flawed. Whats the time frame consist of here? 1 day?

What different pathways would triazole work through if theyre both essentially AIs? What does appetite have to do with anything?
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I am refering to my post above. This is an alternate way of depicting user-experienced effects, i.e. a review of both products in the form of an illustration.

nattydisaster said:
You have a very poor theory with absolutely no scientific backing. Fancy looking graph though.

Am i reading correct that one of the things you based your results on was stiffness of nipples?
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How is this different from any other review posted here, except for a visual representation in stead of a bunch of tedious text? Puffy nipples are associated with high levels of estrogen or a poor t/e ratio.

The reason why I am thinking of a conversion to an androgen (or perhaps some other reason for instant and notable effect) is due to steroid synthesis, but I am by no means knowlegdeable in that area. Munching Erase gives me instant noticeable effects, which I do not get from Triazole. I guess it could be compared to slow and fast esters. Triazole builds over time, while Erase gives instant bang.

When using Erase, I get an instant muscle hardening effect and a dry look. This changes after a few hours, where i start to feel slightly soft and get horny nipples. What could be a possible explanation for this?

With regards to steroid synthesis, not much data is available on Androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione as far as I could find. However, chemically it has a name quite similar to the upper right corner (schematics below). I of course know that it isn't this simple, but as with most supplements one can hardly find any substantial documentation.

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PuZo said:
So you're comparing 3 full bottles to half a bottle.... Am I the only one that sees the idiocy in that?
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Why? It's not like I am hiding the fact. Actually, quite the opposite. As with any information, you can only take it for what it's worth. Granted, a longer term would be more thorough, but this is anecdotal evidence anyway.

D2footballjrc said:
Well I'm touching my nipples for an answer and not sure how to answer that. ;-)

I kid.. I kid!

Honestly these conversations are great for AM. The OP is very much thinking in the right direction, just the method used isn't scientific enough to prove truths or even proper theories. It does make for nice intellectual conversation though. So kudos there!
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Of course it's not scientific enough. Even with full blood works it is useless scientifically. The point here is a review/comparison of the products the same as any other review. That is what the thread-title says. Also, to spur discussion about two great products.

BBB said:
i would love to see your blood work.
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+1

Someone should compile a database of results. Problem is that these bloods are usually not worth much. Testosterone fluctuates during the day and LH is pulsing every 3-4 hours. The individual might increase calories, just be of roids or some other ****. I wish someone would do a n=1000+ study on all supplements available today:D

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Seems to be quite a bit of whining here. It seems that people see a graph and think that it means 100% certified science and get appaled that it's just a consumers review of the two products presented visually. If you never read the fine print you will always be fooled :)
 
McBain83 said:
The amount of blood work necessary to do this properly would render me anemic. However; I have had testicular cancer and know a thing or teo about high and low test-levels. Anyway, wish I could donthis as bloodwork.

I have blood on DAA. Test dropped about 16% but higher LH. Had good gains though. Could be random fluctuations during testing.
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The best place for such testing is probably at a university. If you can talk the students and professor into doing your supplement study, they'll typically get several test subjects and run the blood every 1hr for several hours. In fact, if supplement companies would start being honest and actually sell something that they believe in...we could arrange a university study on something like this. Doubt Triazole or Erase brands (whatever companies they are) would do this though because there is a chance that the stuff comes back bunk or not as effective as they market them.

it's be nice if someone would actually stand behind a product and support, fund etc such studies to prove their product. Consider it a marketing budget..
 
This is nice though. Guys, there are TWO ways to measure something. Quantitative and Qualitative. This man simply chose to have a well-put-together qualitative study. I like it. Since it's impractical and near meaningless for one to do a quantitative study (and expensive to boot), a qualitative study will suffice. This information could be just as useful as someone giving you feedback on the use of 1000mg/test vs. 500mg/test weekly.

Calm down. Good job OP. Keep taking things deeper.
 
I think I accidentally gave fueledpassion negative rep instead of positive :(

I agree with both your posts. However, I have probably tried more than a 100 supplements over the last ten years, and I must say that both Erase and Triazole would easily rank in the top 5.
 
So...done with 1,5 bottles of triazole. Ridicilous gains, but i get a slight stim-feel from it making sleep difficult if taken at night.Moved over to Erase again. I think triazole ended up pushing my E a little high in the end. The first time to the gym after ending it (bout 24 hrs) i popped a few erase and started lifting. Was very soft before going to the gym. During training i was very thirsty and dried up a little, probably due to getting a pump. Back home i was still thirsty, and just started bloating like **** and had stiff nipples. Grabbed som more erase and went to bed, had to pee all night. Next morning i was reasonably dry:)
 
I haven't use Triazole, but I have to say the driest and leanest I've ever looked, you could see the striations on my tops abs, was when I stacked Erase and Clenbutrex, which since I've alone and not experienced anything similar. I don't think its the AI element of erase alone that produced such dramatic effects, but also its effects on HSD in fat cells.
 
I thought I would weigh in here, I think any and all feedback is welcomed, however, I do think that your overall premise is quite flawed. Having used a variety of AI's over the years, I do agree I personally (same as you) can get a GENERAL feel for what is working or not. However, (and this is a huge however) the criteria upon which you are basing this seems odd, and to try to lay out hormonal spikes is illogical.

Without appropriate bloods, or based on better criteria (nipple stiffness, lol) the graph to me is no more than just a graph without meaning.

Please note that this is my opinion and not an attempt to disrespect the OP
 
AE14 said:
I thought I would weigh in here, I think any and all feedback is welcomed, however, I do think that your overall premise is quite flawed. Having used a variety of AI's over the years, I do agree I personally (same as you) can get a GENERAL feel for what is working or not. However, (and this is a huge however) the criteria upon which you are basing this seems odd, and to try to lay out hormonal spikes is illogical.

Without appropriate bloods, or based on better criteria (nipple stiffness, lol) the graph to me is no more than just a graph without meaning.

Please note that this is my opinion and not an attempt to disrespect the OP
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Is this your contribution to every review out there without bloods?
 
McBain83 said:
Is this your contribution to every review out there without bloods?
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I understand that your review is a graph based version of subjective information.

I think the reason it has been criticised vs other reviews that are also subjective is that other reviews tend to use symptoms such as erection frequency, libido, strength etc as the markers of improvement that suggest raised testosterone.

Drawing a graph based on your hormonal fluctuations is not the same as this. If someone reviewed these two products and said "I think my testosterone peaked after <X> days and dropped after <Y> days before returning to baseline after <Z> days" they would get the same criticism.

So, to answer your question directed at AE14 (not that he needs any help to answer it) it is not every review without bloodwork but every review where hormonal fluctuations are described rather than objectively telling us the symptoms of such improvement.

I hope this makes sense.

Ben
 
McBain83 said:
Is this your contribution to every review out there without bloods?
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Actually no. Most reviews talk about slightly more concrete data outside of nipple stiffness. Granted you mentioned a few other variables, but there is little to no credibility in your graph when you talk about "testosterone spike" without bloods. You are making a guess based on your feeling. Totally your right to do so, however, your commentary has been arrogant at best.

Again, this was never meant to be a persecution of you, as I clearly stated in my last post. However, you seem to enjoy replying with animosity towards people who are questioning your methodology, not you as a person.

Good luck to you.
 
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