epistane PCT ideas

samdonnelly

New member
Advanced PCT from AX
Novedex XT from Gaspari Nutriotion and tribulus
Formadrol XT from LG Sciences

will any of these be sufficient? which one sounds the best?
 
1. You asked a vague question you got a vague answer. Without knowing your cycle set up how could anyone tell you what to do for your pct. Is it a strait cycle, a pulse? At what dose are you going to be taking it?
2. You should always have a serm on hand if you would of done any amount of searching you would have found this out.
3. Dont be a D**K with the emoticon bullS**T. We are all here to help, no need to act like that.
 
JakeVendetta said:
1. You asked a vague question you got a vague answer. Without knowing your cycle set up how could anyone tell you what to do for your post cycle therapy. Is it a strait cycle, a pulse? At what dose are you going to be taking it?
2. You should always have a serm on hand if you would of done any amount of searching you would have found this out.
3. Dont be a D**K with the emoticon bullS**T. We are all here to help, no need to act like that.
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sorry, the emoticon wasnt directed at you, it was just to express that i am confused, that is all.

i am thinking of doing a 20/30/30/40 cycle, no pulsing because i read that you wont get the same results by pulsing. but it is a possibility because you dont need a pct with pulse.

i am confused with what i need, a serm (Nolvadex?) and what else?
sorry about the confusion, wasnt trying to be a d!ck
 
i would like to also apologize for being blunt. But just for future reference when you ask a question its best if you include as much information as possible. Most important would be nolva, or torm if you have a good source for either to restore hpta function. Secound would possibly be some sort of cortisol control to help you hold onto your gains. Also might want to get a booster of some sort, go with a cost effective one, right now you can get some lower price ones at nutraplanet. If you have any questions i would be more then glad to answer you to the best of my knowledge, and if i cant answer them i would be glad to refer you to someone who could better answer them.
 
Good job guys on working out your frustration and communication issues and yes what Jake posted is on the money!

Good posts.

Much Love,

Neoborn

P.S be careful with trying to attain SERM's at the moment with all the DEA stuff going down, they are interested in peptides even ( not AAS even though operation RAW DEAL was for that only ).
 
JakeVendetta said:
i would like to also apologize for being blunt. But just for future reference when you ask a question its best if you include as much information as possible. Most important would be nolva, or torm if you have a good source for either to restore hpta function. Secound would possibly be some sort of cortisol control to help you hold onto your gains (i.e. xlean, lean xtreme, 7-keto). Also might want to get a booster of some sort, go with a cost effective one, right now you can get some lower price ones at nutraplanet. If you have any questions i would be more then glad to answer you to the best of my knowledge, and if i cant answer them i would be glad to refer you to someone who could better answer them.
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its cool man. no hard feelings. so i should do nolva, lean xtreme, and what, like an over the counter booster (formadrol, novedex, etc?)
 
formadrol, novedex are ais, id go more for like ax's hyperdrol... but any other similar product would work. Even a natty booster would be fine, blue up and alpha drive are discounted at np right now might think about those also. But the hyperdrol would be much more affective.
 
JakeVendetta said:
formadrol, novedex are ais, id go more for like ax's hyperdrol... but any other similar product would work. Even a natty booster would be fine, blue up and alpha drive are discounted at np right now might think about those also. But the hyperdrol would be much more affective.
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so i can take hyperdrol by itself? and not take anything else except maybe a natty test booster?
 
samdonnelly said:
so i can take hyperdrol by itself? and not take anything else except maybe a natty test booster?
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yup, hyperdrol gets the job done on its own no questions asked. i might recommend running a natty test boost in combination with the AI to enhance your own body's test output. it def wouldn't hurt in a PCT.
 
samdonnelly said:
so i can take hyperdrol by itself? and not take anything else except maybe a natty test booster?
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you still need a SERM, the AI wont start your HPTA back up as fast if at all when ur suppressed from a PH, epistane in a pulse will still give you good gains, and then you can go with hyperdrol and an anti-cort. for PCT
 
samdonnelly said:
so what would a typical pulse cycle look like for maximum results in your guys' opinions?
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read the epistane faq, it out lines a pulse. Also dr. d has a thread about pulsing orals. Truthfully i would still keep a SERM on hand "just in case" it should be part of your firstaid kit lol, you never know when your going to need it.
 
ok to be honest, i dont feel comfortable buying nolva or clomid. however, i was thinking about doing a post cycle therapy of rebound xt and Retain2. or just simply using AX's advanced post cycle therapy. thoughts?
 
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samdonnelly said:
ok to be honest, i dont feel comfortable buying nolva or clomid. however, i was thinking about doing a post cycle therapy of rebound xt and Retain2. or just simply using AX's advanced post cycle therapy. thoughts?
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retain2 is good stuff, a lot of people have been recommending hyperdrol x2 for the epi pulse pct
 
I would try Anabolic Innovations new Invalid Link Removed, I bet it's the shizzle!

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
samdonnelly said:
lol....use that as the only thing in the post cycle therapy? besides some creatine.
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Ok if you want to fill it out a bit more:

1. Cycle Support - 2 scoops day

2. Post Cycle Support -

3. AI - Formestane / Penetrate from NP

4. Drive by AN.

There yah go!

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
neoborn said:
Ok if you want to fill it out a bit more:

1. Cycle Support - 2 scoops day

2. Post Cycle Support -

3. AI - Formestane / Penetrate from NP

4. Drive by AN.

There yah go!

Much Love,

Neoborn
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Formadrol or novadex xt could be used as the AI too, correct?
 
for post cycle therapy i'd highly recommend investing in a SERM. you're using epistane, which is in itself an anabolic steroid and a foreign substance, in the same way that a SERM is also a drug. however, you wouldn't be taking the SERM for $hit$ and giggles you'd be taking it to stabilize your body's endocrine system and reverse suppression. no other OTC supplement will accomplish this for you. when running a cycle that can shut you down, you really should take a SERM.

the only other option that you might want to consider is trying dermacrine sustain by primordialperformance. it's a topical formula that works transdermally to bring test levels back to normalcy. the best way to take this is in conjuction with a SERM, but you could try it standalone post cycle along with another natty test boost to see how that works out for you.
 
i just dont want to deal with trying to find nolva and ordering it and all the bs that COULD come of it. i want to use the epistane, ive had it for almost 4 weeks, and havent started yet. i dont want to start til i have all the pct stuff. which i think is a smart thing lol. i wanna do the pct with as much otc stuff as i can.
 
dude seriously.....just google torimifene citrate....order the research chemical dose 120/80/40/20 it will all be good man....
 
brywal312 said:
dude seriously.....just google torimifene citrate....order the research chemical dose 120/80/40/20 it will all be good man....
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it's not that easy tho bro, especially right now with the FDA suspiciously eyeing all the research chems. you gotta be careful with what you buy, lest you should get a knock on the door from the government.

Dermacrine sustain looks promising, but i'd like to see some concrete clinical studies...
 
It's funny beebab we're coming around to where we have already been.

So you say:

1. Use a SERM

Then

2. Don't buy a SERM from someone online

So how are you helping him?

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
neoborn said:
Ok if you want to fill it out a bit more:

Invalid Link Removed or Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed
3. Invalid Link Removed - Formestane / Penetrate from NP

Invalid Link Removed

There yah go!

Much Love,

Neoborn
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I'm going to bump this post since the OP understandably doesn't feel comfortable with purchasing a SERM right now. I added some links for you :D

...and yes, you can use your choice of aromatse inhibitor, but be sure to research them first as they have their own intrisic values as well. Keep asking questions until you get all figured out man!
 
wow guys. bravo.
i have to hand it to you. you are putting up with my BS and noob style questions and i am finally getting the answers i need!!!!!!!
i would just start taking all that (cycle support, post cycle support, drive, and an ai) after my 4th week correct? how "clean" should my diet be"
 
samdonnelly said:
wow guys. bravo.
i have to hand it to you. you are putting up with my BS and noob style questions and i am finally getting the answers i need!!!!!!!
i would just start taking all that (cycle support, post cycle support, drive, and an ai) after my 4th week correct? how "clean" should my diet be"
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You are CLEARLY not ready for a cycle.
1) You are undecided between pulsing and a traditional cycle.
2) There's no evidence that you know WHY you're running your post cycle supplements
3) Every time someone gives a post cycle suggestion, you ask "is that ENOUGH" for my entire post cycle
4) No mention of any ON cycle support supplements
5) No mention of what sides that you will have on cycle
6) You are unsure of what your goals are (evidence in the vague diet question)
7) You don't know how to set up your own diet

I don't see how the orignal poster could POSSIBLY be FURTHER from being ready for a cycle. You guys are not being blunt enough with the op.
 
celc5 said:
You are CLEARLY not ready for a cycle.
1) You are undecided between pulsing and a traditional cycle.
2) There's no evidence that you know WHY you're running your post cycle supplements
3) Every time someone gives a post cycle suggestion, you ask "is that ENOUGH" for my entire post cycle
4) No mention of any ON cycle support supplements
5) No mention of what sides that you will have on cycle
6) You are unsure of what your goals are (evidence in the vague diet question)
7) You don't know how to set up your own diet

I don't see how the orignal poster could POSSIBLY be FURTHER from being ready for a cycle. You guys are not being blunt enough with the op.
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i dont ask if that is enough. maybe you didnt read my last post. i already did research on sides, i know what my goals are but i always like having suggestions, i can set up my own diet (an infant could do that)
 
celc5 said:
You are CLEARLY not ready for a cycle.
1) You are undecided between pulsing and a traditional cycle.
2) There's no evidence that you know WHY you're running your post cycle supplements
3) Every time someone gives a post cycle suggestion, you ask "is that ENOUGH" for my entire post cycle
4) No mention of any ON cycle support supplements
5) No mention of what sides that you will have on cycle
6) You are unsure of what your goals are (evidence in the vague diet question)
7) You don't know how to set up your own diet

I don't see how the orignal poster could POSSIBLY be FURTHER from being ready for a cycle. You guys are not being blunt enough with the op.
Click to expand...


I totally agree.
 
Well, he hasn't started his cycle yet, so he's doing his research now...he was just lucky that he got answers to his newb questions instead of the got search smiley.

I'm not arguing that he's not ready yet, but he's making some headway and on the right path to getting there. That being said, you guys make a good point...we should take a step back before we move forward.

What are your stats, lifting routine, age, goals for this cycle, previous cycle history, and what macros are planning on using during this cycle?
 
neoborn said:
It's funny beebab we're coming around to where we have already been.

So you say:

1. Use a SERM

Then

2. Don't buy a SERM from someone online

So how are you helping him?

Much Love,

Neoborn
Click to expand...

i'm not trying to contradict myself, i'm only playing devil's advocate and clarifying both sides of the argument here. all i was getting at was that today, you need to be careful about how you go about obtaining your research chems, not to say you should simply give up and resort to another method for your PCT. figure out a definite cycle plan and go about finding a reliable source for your SERM, but be careful about how you obtain that SERM.
 
sorry if my last post sounded kind of b!tchy. i did not intend. i understand what you are saying though. i am just anxious to start and i understand all the side effects so i want to be extra cautious.

my apologies again.
 
stxnas said:
What are your stats, lifting routine, age, goals for this cycle, previous cycle history, and what macros are planning on using during this cycle?
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height 6'1" weight 165-170

age 21
goals increase mass and definition, also strength

previous--oxevol, methyl 1-D

i will be using NO XPLODE, protein, creatine, animal pak, MAYBE a fat burner (atro phex)

routine-typically go to the gym for 1-2 hours 3-5 times a week and focus on arms, chest, shoulders, back. legs 1 day a week. then off days i do abs at home.
 
May as well drop the no explode + creatine during cycle, it won't give significant gains over epi alone, so it will save some $ to save em for PCT.

Really really really nail down your diet, at least in terms of carbs / macro %s. Use fitday.com or any of the others to track for a bit, and use one of the metabolic calculators to figure out what you are burning a day, don't include the workouts in the activity level (probably use 1.2*base)

then add 1500 cal a day workout days, 1000 non workout days as clean as you possibly can. Clean cals can include oils which provide good density of calories. using 1 tbsp of olive oil extra at each meal adds over 400 cal for the day.
 
samdonnelly said:
height 6'1" weight 165-170

age 21
goals increase mass and definition, also strength

previous--oxevol, methyl 1-D

i will be using NO XPLODE, protein, creatine, animal pak, MAYBE a fat burner (atro phex)

routine-typically go to the gym for 1-2 hours 3-5 times a week and focus on arms, chest, shoulders, back. legs 1 day a week. then off days i do abs at home.
Click to expand...

no harm done bro, i wasn't attacking you or anything. just wanted to make sure everyone understood what i was saying so that this thread wouldn't run in circles.

could you clarify this routine for me? do you lift 5 days a week and spread muscle groups evenly over those 5 days, or do you do full body every 3 days?

also, be careful about how long you lift. i wouldn't exceed an hr, tops. 45 min is generally the sweet spot, anything more than an hr is asking for cortisol.
 
calculator I used came up with around 2600 cal at your size for maintenance. so you should shoot for around 4100 cal on workout days, and 3600 non workout.
 
beebab said:
no harm done bro, i wasn't attacking you or anything. just wanted to make sure everyone understood what i was saying so that this thread wouldn't run in circles.

could you clarify this routine for me? do you lift 5 days a week and spread muscle groups evenly over those 5 days, or do you do full body every 3 days?

also, be careful about how long you lift. i wouldn't exceed an hr, tops. 45 min is generally the sweet spot, anything more than an hr is asking for cortisol.
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cool, glad we understand eachother.

anywhere from 3-5 days a week. usually a full body. which i know i need to not do that. i need to come up with 1 day for each group.
 
IMO you still have a lot of natural gains to be made (based on height/weight). You should take a look at the bulking forum.
 
samdonnelly said:
could be. i have been lifting for close to a year. idk what my chest measures at, but my arms are 15.5"
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Yeah bro I would advise holding off on this. If you have only been training a year you have the potential to make significant gains yet. Typically in your first few years of training your still trying new training and diet techniques. Constantly adapting to what you find works best for YOU (not everything works best for everyone). I am in like year 4-5 and I still find new lifts/additions to diet that improve gains.

If you want to supplement things go for the basics like whey, BCAA's, fish oil, etc. And start eating more!
 
yeah, at just a year lifting, at 21, you still have loads of natural testosterone, and loads of natural growth. get your diet solid + tracked, figure out maintenance, and just go 500 -700 cal over that without taking epistane. you'll see gains that way just fine with a decent workout structure.

Use any workout structure you can find online, it really makes almost NO difference which one in the long term. Track the weights in a log every workout, and change to a different workout structure every 4-8 weeks.

I'll bet you can add 1-2lb a week naturally for the next 6 months that way.
 
as like everyone that is lifting, i just want to get big quick. i used to be a fat kid and now i have an actual build that im proud of, i just want to get big quick. i know there is no real fix to this except working hard, and i will and can do that. my problem with eating a lot is taht i dont want to go back to being that fat kid. if that makes sense.
 
Right, thats exactly why you need to track it cautiously with a tool like fitday. see exactly how many calories are going in your mouth a day. Then to get bigger, you increase that a LITTLE. 500-700 cal a day is 1-1.5 lbs a week gained. If you try and just guess, there is no telling. and when you do use something hormonal, if you are trying to reach gaining 12lbs over 4 weeks, you need to be gaining 3lbs a week which is something like 1500 cal a day over maintenace. Without tracking it, and being confident you are hitting those you are likely to waste the epistane.
 
@ Celc, was just answering the question he asked. I'll leave it to you guys to flesh out the rest.

Here is what I usually ask:

To give an honest well put together answer we need details, and lots of em!

1. What is your diet like?

2. How many times are you eating a day?

3. What kind of lifting routine are you performing?

4. What kind of cardio do you do?

5. How often do you lift or do cardio a week?

6. Do you sleep a full 8hrs a night?

7. Where do babies come from? No seriously where!! I need to know!

As well as :

1. Workout hard - There are many different workout regimes, many that work well. Generally: Strength training is in the 6 rep range / Bodybuilding in the 8-10 rep range. - Rep range warmup: 15 ( sets 1 & 2 ) Working: 10, 8, 6 last three sets add drop sets to failure )

2. Fast Efficient Workouts = 1hr -Invalid Link Removed

3. Protein shake immediately after workout and then protein meal with carbs etc within 1hr

4. Creatine - Mono or CEE you decide. Both before and after workout.

5. Daily meals - 5 - 6 day ( including shakes ) protein = 1g per pound of body weight. Meal 1 ( breakies ) is shake plus oatmeal or whatever else you want ( apple is good fibre / system crap mover ), Meal 6 is post workout shake with creatine etc and then solid food meal. Carbs tapered down from morning to evening and fats tapered up from morning to evening. Protein is a constant.

6. Sleep 8 - 10 hrs a night ( very imp for all natural BB'ers )

7. Supps - Do you note the order in which these are and where supps come??? - a) Multivitamin / B complex b) Whey protein c) creatine e) Test boosters / stacks etc

Most importantly do you see the order of these things?

Exercises: Compound movements i.e. two arm two leg exercises.

1. Squats - Biggest muscle and boosts test like crazy, work em hard and see results big time.

2. Deadlifts / Chins / Bent over Rows / Pulldowns - 1st attempt either an palm up or palm down chin at the beginning of your back workout, if you can do one, try two, if you can do 15, add weight. Most important for back is to make the mind / muscle connection. Concentrate ( start with low weight and excellent form ) on getting a good contraction and not swinging with the weight. Calm controlled up down with good squeeze of lats at bottom of rep. All about the connection / squeeze

3. Leg press

4. Flat Bench Dumbell / Barbell - Always swap it up, it takes more muscle etc to do dumbells ( stabilizing muscles etc ) but switch it up - Start with dips to hit lower chest then move to flat bench / incline.

5. Core work - Abs / lower back - work the weaker harder.

This should give you a good idea....Best thing for test.....squats ....good form, warm up well, be careful and grow!
 
1. What is your diet like?
clean, a lot of protien minimal carbs and fat
2. How many times are you eating a day?
honestly, 1 or 2
3. What kind of lifting routine are you performing?
typically full body every day
4. What kind of cardio do you do?
elliptical, bike, treadmill
5. How often do you lift or do cardio a week?
lift 3-5/week cardio 1/week for 30 min-1hr
6. Do you sleep a full 8hrs a night?
no
 
samdonnelly said:
1. What is your diet like?
clean, a lot of protien minimal carbs and fat
Good!

2. How many times are you eating a day?
honestly, 1 or 2

5-6 small meals / can be 1-2 shakes day - fix this!

3. What kind of lifting routine are you performing?
typically full body every day

Holy Freakazoid! WTF are you doing man? :D Are you cutting or are you just a fan of cortisol?

4. What kind of cardio do you do?
elliptical, bike, treadmill
Good stuff!

5. How often do you lift or do cardio a week?
lift 3-5/week cardio 1/week for 30 min-1hr

Full body 5 times a week is too much. If you are trying to bulk I would highly recommend DC style Training 3 times a week max.

6. Do you sleep a full 8hrs a night?
no

Why not what's going on? How much are you sleeping? Had your blood taken recently? Hormone panel done?
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My replies / questions in red.
 
Holy Freakazoid! WTF are you doing man? Are you cutting or are you just a fan of cortisol?
lol neither, im not even sure what cortisol is, i just never got with a routine.


5. How often do you lift or do cardio a week?
lift 3-5/week cardio 1/week for 30 min-1hr

Full body 5 times a week is too much. If you are trying to bulk I would highly recommend DC style Training 3 times a week max.
what is a DC style training?


6. Do you sleep a full 8hrs a night?
no

Why not what's going on? How much are you sleeping? Had your blood taken recently? Hormone panel done?
no, this is more a matter of my girl keeping me up on the phone and my busy schedule.:frustrate
 
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