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Epistane Bloodwork

trend747

trend747

New member
Just thought I'd post a quick thread... I just got my bloodwork a few weeks ago of a Epistane only cycle...

Basically, the cycle looked like this:

Week 1: 30mg
Week 2: 40mg
Week 3: 40mg
Week 4-6: 50mg

At week 3, I had my ALT and AST levels checked. ALT was a whopping 208... normal is <34

Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know. Get your values checked. While it's common for elevated liver values while you're on, 208 is a bit too high. My doctor was a bit concerned. heh... but that's normal... heh.

My AST came in around 50 if I recall. Normal is less than 35... so that wasn't too bad.

I was actually surprised by my ALT numbers.

I'm getting bloodwork done here in a couple weeks.
 
trend747 said:
Just thought I'd post a quick thread... I just got my bloodwork a few weeks ago of a Epistane only cycle...

Basically, the cycle looked like this:

Week 1: 30mg
Week 2: 40mg
Week 3: 40mg
Week 4-6: 50mg

At week 3, I had my ALT and AST levels checked. ALT was a whopping 208... normal is <34

Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know. Get your values checked. While it's common for elevated liver values while you're on, 208 is a bit too high. My doctor was a bit concerned. heh... but that's normal... heh.

My AST came in around 50 if I recall. Normal is less than 35... so that wasn't too bad.

I was actually surprised by my ALT numbers.

I'm getting bloodwork done here in a couple weeks.
Click to expand...

You compare your On-cycle #s to 'normal' numbers....are those the population normal or YOUR normal?
 
trend747 said:
Population.
Click to expand...


wen i got my levels checked at week 5 of my bridge my liver values were normal, (i did a pplex mdrol bridge) i feel that it greatly depenjds on your dosing of the compounds and the time you dose your liver support.

all my steroidal doses were never past 5PM and all my liver support was always done ONLY at night, so on top of getting more then 12 hours rest from any liver damaging products, i also took the liver support during that time so it would "heal" , seems like my logic worked, bc my levels werent bad at all.
 
i have had blood work done for a plain physical and been told to repeat it 2 or 3 times for high liver values. different reading everytime . i think alot of other things other than your orals move the readings alot. gone from concerned doctor to helpy doctor in a week.
 
Did you have baseline liver function assessed prior to the cycle? Without documented baseline bloodwork info, the entire demonstration is flawed.
 
So you had the bloodwork done on week three of the cycle? Elevated values on any oral cycle are expected. What's important is how fast your body recovers from the elevated levels. Most epi-users have noticed a fast recovery, and that's why it's known as having "mild toxicity". Having elevated levels for 2-3 weeks wont do any damage, but having them stay high even after PCT could.
 
That is definitely interesting. I have never seen it that elevated, even with people who took 60mg (which I don't recommend). Definitely be careful with that. Get them checked two weeks post cycle if you can and let us know how it changed.
 
Honestly...how much alcohol did/do you drink? What was your levels before the cycle? I guess we are all assuming you had normal levels before starting...but this could easily not be the case. Someone who has elevated levels already should avoid oral prohormones/steroids
 
nattydisaster said:
Honestly...how much alcohol did/do you drink? What was your levels before the cycle? I guess we are all assuming you had normal levels before starting...but this could easily not be the case. Someone who has elevated levels already should avoid oral prohormones/steroids
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I wouldn't assume anything. While i absolutely do commend people for getting their blood levels checked on a regular basis, without a baseline foundation to gauge effects from, it's anybody's guess, and far from any type of pertinent objective data/support of hepatotoxic effects.

In order to accurately assess hepatic/chole function, an entire hepatic panel needs to be completed and disclosed. (I.E.) Ast/Alt, Total Billirubin (direct and indirect), Alk Phos or GGT.

The many variables that can also exist often aren't disclosed as well, and they too can be a very big factor in the equation. I'm not implying this is the case here what-so-ever, but rather just a general statement. (I.E.) current/previous medical conditions, etoh use, concurrent medication use, etc)
 
Trauma1 said:
Did you have baseline liver function assessed prior to the cycle? Without documented baseline bloodwork info, the entire demonstration is flawed.
Click to expand...
No. And yeah, you're completely right. But it's still a concern when you are a healthy individual, hardly drink any alcohol (i.e. a glass of wine once every 2 weeks), and the other supplements you take are the tried and true kind (protein, multi-vitamin, and a gram of Vitamin C a day, other than the liver support)...

All of my other values, Bilirubim, Glucose, Potassium, etc., etc., were normal...

And that's why I said, yeah, it's normal to see elevated values... I just wasn't expecting THAT number.

Now what is interesting is this -- two days before, I had bloodwork done -- ALT was 268... then the next was 208. So... there ya go... definitely can fluctuate from day to day.

We'll see where it goes here in a week or two. I appreciate all your responses.
 
trend747 said:
No. And yeah, you're completely right. But it's still a concern when you are a healthy individual, hardly drink any alcohol (i.e. a glass of wine once every 2 weeks), and the other supplements you take are the tried and true kind (protein, multi-vitamin, and a gram of Vitamin C a day, other than the liver support)...

All of my other values, Bilirubim, Glucose, Potassium, etc., etc., were normal...

And that's why I said, yeah, it's normal to see elevated values... I just wasn't expecting THAT number.

Now what is interesting is this -- two days before, I had bloodwork done -- ALT was 268... then the next was 208. So... there ya go... definitely can fluctuate from day to day.

We'll see where it goes here in a week or two. I appreciate all your responses.
Click to expand...
Keep us updated. I am very interested in where this goes.

Adams
 
trend747 said:
Just thought I'd post a quick thread... I just got my bloodwork a few weeks ago of a Epistane only cycle...

Basically, the cycle looked like this:

Week 1: 30mg
Week 2: 40mg
Week 3: 40mg
Week 4-6: 50mg

At week 3, I had my ALT and AST levels checked. ALT was a whopping 208... normal is <34

Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know. Get your values checked. While it's common for elevated liver values while you're on, 208 is a bit too high. My doctor was a bit concerned. heh... but that's normal... heh.

My AST came in around 50 if I recall. Normal is less than 35... so that wasn't too bad.

I was actually surprised by my ALT numbers.

I'm getting bloodwork done here in a couple weeks.
Click to expand...
Can you by chance scan in your blood work? Obviously blocking out any personal information.

Adams
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Just curious but did you have a heavy training session withing 24-48 hrs prior to the blood draw? Nobody has asked this yet but it should be considered as a factor.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's a factor to a degree, but i doubt it applies here to any significance. Rule of thumb in medicine, if ALT (which is hepatic specific) is 3x that of AST level, hepatic stress is evident.
 
Trauma1 said:
I agree that it's a factor to a degree, but i doubt it applies here to any significance. Rule of thumb in medicine, if ALT (which is hepatic specific) is 3x that of AST level, hepatic stress is evident.
Click to expand...

Yup. I'm with you on that one. Do you think a liver ultrasound is in order on this case? I know that liver enzymes can return to baseline although lesions or whatever can remain indefiinitely?

Correct me if I am wrong there...
 
Trauma1 said:
I agree that it's a factor to a degree, but i doubt it applies here to any significance. Rule of thumb in medicine, if ALT (which is hepatic specific) is 3x that of AST level, hepatic stress is evident.
Click to expand...
Which is why what you said earlier is absolutely correct. Without a blood draw prior to the cycle, those values are almost irrelevant. I'm not too worried to be honest. Heck, Dr. D was saying he had a value of 400 one time by taking some cough syrup or something... you can read it in his pulsing thread...

So I'm not too worried. If in a week or two, everything is back to normal, then I'm fine with it. I expect levels to be elevated during a cycle. A good friend of mine was like, "Well what do you expect?"

Heck, take one aspirin a day and do bloodwork. Your numbers will be crazy I bet.
 
For those interested, here's my total bloodwork on the 15th... note that I can't scan anything... test results are totally online...

I am going to be letting the doc know of what I want to be drawn on next time, including test levels.

BILIRUBIN, TOTAL, SERUM
Level: 0.6
Range: 0.2-1.2 mg/dL

ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE
Level: 58
Range: 37-117 U/L

AST, SERUM
Level: 54
Range: 10-40 U/L

ALT, SERUM
Level: 203
Range: <36 U/L

CREATININE
Level: 1.24
Range: <1.34- mg/dL

GLOMERULAR FILTRATION RATE
Level: >60
Range: >60- mL/min

SODIUM
Level: 138
Range: 133-145 mEq/L

POTASSIUM
Level: 3.9
Range: 3.5-5.3 mEq/L

CHLORIDE
Level: 101
Range: 100-111 mEq/L

CO2
Level: 28
Range: 24-33 mEq/L

HDL
Level: 23
Range: >40- mg/dL

LDL DIRECT
Level: 160
Range: <129- mg/dL

GLUCOSE, RANDOM
Level: 84
Range: 60-159 mg/dL

SODIUM
Level: 141
Range: 133-145 mEq/L

POTASSIUM
Level: 4.1
Range: 3.5-5.3 mEq/L

BUN
Level: 12
Range: 10-20 mg/dL
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Yup. I'm with you on that one. Do you think a liver ultrasound is in order on this case? I know that liver enzymes can return to baseline although lesions or whatever can remain indefiinitely?

Correct me if I am wrong there...
Click to expand...
Not in this case. If my BUN was low, and Bil was high, then an ultrasound would be done quite quickly... or a biopsy... particularly if the numbers were that way a week after cessation of the oral.
 
trend,

Do you have any reference numbers for your cholesterol? Those #s

HDL
Level: 23
Range: >40- mg/dL

LDL DIRECT
Level: 160
Range: <129- mg/dL

...are alarming. Maybe you always had cholesterol issues? I know orals are not only hepatoxic but also negatively affect your lipid profile. I've been thinking of running an Epi cycle, but if the effect on lipids is that profound, I may re-think that.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Yup. I'm with you on that one. Do you think a liver ultrasound is in order on this case? I know that liver enzymes can return to baseline although lesions or whatever can remain indefiinitely?

Correct me if I am wrong there...
Click to expand...

Imo, no, but i'm not a doctor either. A right upper quad ultrasound would cover liver/gallbladder/pancreas. One of the first causes they would typically rule out is gallbladder involvement. Mainly something such as an obstructive gallstone, or choledocholithiasis.

His levels are elevated, but not overly concerning at this point imo. I've seen ALT levels over 3000.

In time, they should come back down on their own. If he was symptomatic such as tea colored urine, pruritis (itching), jaundice, or clay colored stools, that's when it's time to be acutely concerned.
 
trend747 said:
For those interested, here's my total bloodwork on the 15th... note that I can't scan anything... test results are totally online...

I am going to be letting the doc know of what I want to be drawn on next time, including test levels.

BILIRUBIN, TOTAL, SERUM
Level: 0.6
Range: 0.2-1.2 mg/dL

ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE
Level: 58
Range: 37-117 U/L

AST, SERUM
Level: 54
Range: 10-40 U/L

ALT, SERUM
Level: 203
Range: <36 U/L

CREATININE
Level: 1.24
Range: <1.34- mg/dL

GLOMERULAR FILTRATION RATE
Level: >60
Range: >60- mL/min

SODIUM
Level: 138
Range: 133-145 mEq/L

POTASSIUM
Level: 3.9
Range: 3.5-5.3 mEq/L

CHLORIDE
Level: 101
Range: 100-111 mEq/L

CO2
Level: 28
Range: 24-33 mEq/L

HDL
Level: 23
Range: >40- mg/dL

LDL DIRECT
Level: 160
Range: <129- mg/dL

GLUCOSE, RANDOM
Level: 84
Range: 60-159 mg/dL

SODIUM
Level: 141
Range: 133-145 mEq/L

POTASSIUM
Level: 4.1
Range: 3.5-5.3 mEq/L

BUN
Level: 12
Range: 10-20 mg/dL
Click to expand...

Honestly, your numbers don't look too bad at all. Normal bili and alk phos, electrolytes look good, but your cholesterol is beginning to take a hit. No surprise there though.

Taking compounds of this nature is going to stress your liver to a degree. Just make sure you follow up on this to assure your levels begin to decline, that is important.
 
Dragon13 said:
trend,

Do you have any reference numbers for your cholesterol? Those #s

HDL
Level: 23
Range: >40- mg/dL

LDL DIRECT
Level: 160
Range: <129- mg/dL

...are alarming. Maybe you always had cholesterol issues? I know orals are not only hepatoxic but also negatively affect your lipid profile. I've been thinking of running an Epi cycle, but if the effect on lipids is that profound, I may re-think that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that ratio is 6.9. If that stays at that level for prolonged periods, you are at risk for coronary disease/heart attack. I would start some niacin and policosonol immediately to get these back in line.
Are you still on cycle?
 
trend747 said:
Not in this case. If my BUN was low, and Bil was high, then an ultrasound would be done quite quickly... or a biopsy... particularly if the numbers were that way a week after cessation of the oral.
Click to expand...

It fairly well established that most ill effects (especially on the liver) brought on by anabolic steroids diminish completely upon the cessation of the substance. Of course I'm basing this on data from FDA registered anabolics, but I think we can apply those findings to oct steroids. Hell, theraputic use of halotestin and anadrol can last for months on end. That leads me to belive that an occasional cycle of something mild will only impact minimum damage on ones life expectancy as a whole.
 
Elevated enzymes are not only normal, but to be expected...that doesnt mean to dismiss them, but you can almost guarantee that they will go up...

Its basically just superficial inflammation of the liver....thankfully, the liver is very resiliant and in most cases can take lots of stress and continue to recover.

holy
 
I wanted to update you all. I had my bloodwork done last week -- approx. 2 weeks after my PCT was over...

Only got ALT, TSH and Free T4... (he wanted to run the T tests because he knows I cycle Cytomel...)

ALT was:

ALT, SERUM
Level: 58
Range: <36 U/L

Suffice to say, he never called me, so that means he's ok with that number. That close to the range is actually quite normal...

Anyway, just wanted to update everyone in case anyone sub'ed...
 
trend747 said:
I wanted to update you all. I had my bloodwork done last week -- approx. 2 weeks after my PCT was over...

Only got ALT, TSH and Free T4... (he wanted to run the T tests because he knows I cycle Cytomel...)

ALT was:

ALT, SERUM
Level: 58
Range: <36 U/L

Suffice to say, he never called me, so that means he's ok with that number. That close to the range is actually quite normal...

Anyway, just wanted to update everyone in case anyone sub'ed...
Click to expand...

Good to see, bud! Thanks for the update as well. It looks as though you're moving in the right direction here. Just make sure to take time off now and let your liver rest for a bit. :)
 
GREAT THREAD, its good to see bloodwork threads, thanks trend747 and T1 (a lot of knowledge bro).
I think that one of the lessons to learn is that , the liver needs time to recover, as we can see after 2 weeks of the cycle is over the alt value was still elevated so proper recovery time is needed.
I think that a 3 month rest period its a must but a lot of guys dont wait 1...
 
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