Epicatechin

TheIronAsylum

Active member
are people still taking this ? is it working? I heard its bad for tendons and ligaments?




whats the next big supp to come out
 
It's good stuff. CEL epi(-) is great. We also just released CEL M Test which is one of the best profiles I've seen in a long time.
 
Yes, Folidrone 2.0 is the most advanced product of this nature on the market - bar none. Tons of logs and reviews on AM. I am not a rep btw...just want to see you get the most value for your money brother...
 
Love me some Epicatechin .. ive ran it twice .. once solo and other with Xgels .. I love it

cel epi-plex is non prop blend and at great dosages .. im actually going to run it again in dec.
 
Daycrawler said:
It's good stuff. CEL epi(-) is great. We also just released CEL M Test which is one of the best profiles I've seen in a long time.
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Mtest looks great, feedback in a week has been awesome
 
bigsmall said:
Yes, Folidrone 2.0 is the most advanced product of this nature on the market - bar none. Tons of logs and reviews on AM. I am not a rep btw...just want to see you get the most value for your money brother...
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Could've fooled me...Mighty kind of you.

OP: -epi has several benefits like myostatin inhibition, strength, endurance, BP regulation. To realize these benefits a good absorption enhancer is critical. OL uses PhytoFuse technology in EP1C UNLEASHED which is the best I've tried.
 
bigsmall said:
Yes, Folidrone 2.0 is the most advanced product of this nature on the market - bar none. Tons of logs and reviews on AM. I am not a rep btw...just want to see you get the most value for your money brother...
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I have tried all the epicatechin products as I respond very well too it so I obviously look for the best bang for my buck. Follidrone 2.0 has treated me the best so far as well. It is hard to find any negative reviews on it. People seem to love it across the board.
 
TheIronAsylum said:
are people still taking this ? is it working? I heard its bad for tendons and ligaments?




whats the next big supp to come out
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No tendon or ligament issues. It is not strong enough to have the kind of side effect. I even ran YK-11 for a month which is theorized to destroy joints. Oddly enough, mine never felt better.
 
I've run 400mg before with no problem. Some people epi works great.. others it will have a small effect. For me, strength sky rockets on epi. Doing another 400mg during pct
 
coltonwalker said:
I've run 400mg before with no problem. Some people epi works great.. others it will have a small effect. For me, strength sky rockets on epi. Doing another 400mg during pct
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Which product ?
 
It's a company called divided labs. They make a great, simple product called diverge max. 30 day cycle will give 100mg laxosterone and 200mg epicat. I pare it with their standalone epicatechin for 100mg laxo 400mg epi. Awesome combo, especially in pct with the laxo for cortisol. I can honestly tell a difference when on it
 
Yeah I used it at 600mg and it was awesome

Cel epiplex gives you 300mg + 20 piperine

Haven't given lax a shot yet
 
GQdaLEGEND said:
Yeah I used it at 600mg and it was awesome

Cel epiplex gives you 300mg + 20 piperine

Haven't given lax a shot yet
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I've heard mixed reviews on laxo in general. Some love some say it's crap. I personally love it, and have said that before. Great product for me
 
Yes. EPI rocks!!! At least for me. I know there are some non-responders. But for me it is the best natural supplement by far, with plain old creative being second. I respond very well to it.

I have tried almost every version of it from different companies. I'll give you a list of the 3 most effective.

3. Cel EPI plex. Straight forward non prop blend that works.

2. Ep1c unleashed. Absorption enhancement with phytophuse and egcg. Product kicks ass.

1. Follidrone 2. A different beast all together. Best natty supp I've ever used.
 
is there any epi supps that are straight up epicatechi nothing else

i was using optimum alpha epi plus Ep1c unleashed but it seems the optimum alpha is no longer around
 
TheIronAsylum said:
is there any epi supps that are straight up epicatechi nothing else

i was using optimum alpha epi plus Ep1c unleashed but it seems the optimum alpha is no longer around
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That would be CEL EPI-Plex. No prop blend and you know exactly how much epi you are getting.
 
In regards to Myostatin suppression only:

OP, read this - I wouldn't buy it if you think it increases lean body mass through Myostatin decrease / Follistatin increase. Even if it did, it would be useless muscle making you more prone to injury, and you'd have to buy and use the product forever -

Dr. Stephen Welle over at Rochester University of Medicine published a study that may be the single most important paper since the discovery of Myostatin by Dr. Se Jin Lee.

Dr. Welle elucidated in his study that a reduction in active, unbound Myostatin of anything short of a minimum of 60% is basically useless in producing muscle hypertrophy. In fact the growth curve begins at under 40% circulating unbound active Myostatin.

The “Sweet Spot” of Myostatin suppression’s fabled extreme anabolic effects occur when total unbound active Myostatin levels drop to 10% or below!!

Up to 60% suppression cause no muscle hypertrophy over the controls but the mice that had 60% and above suppression began to grow.

The greatest muscle gains were seen in the mice with 90% to 95% suppression. These mice put on an astonishing 25% pure lean muscle weight in 3 months or less.

While these results are promising there were a couple glitches. First of all there appears to be a change in collagen production that leads to more brittle muscle tendons that occurred along with the muscle growth. Welle’s group is investigating this now and it appears that the muscle gains seen with Myostatin inhibition may come at the price of greater risk of injury.

Also something that was elucidated in earlier studies on Myostatin suppression played out here as well. Namely, a reduction in force development. The larger Myostatin-suppression-induced muscle gains do not come with an equal increase in strength and in fact may actually impair the contractile force of the muscle.

I asked Dr. Welle to speculate if Myostatin was to return to normal would the muscle gains remain? Welle said that he felt the gains would reverse if Myostatin was to return to baseline levels because as far as he could see, Myostain inhibition in adult muscle gains were solely from increased sarcoplasmic uptake by the muscle fibers.

This means that if you use a Myostatin inhibitor that gets your circulating Mysotatin down below 90% and you see fabled muscle gains…. You’ll have to keep supplementing with what ever you’re using to keep them for the long term.
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It's a healthy compound that may be good for other things like endurance, etc... but I would ask any manufacturer if their product suppresses Myostatin to 90% or more, and for how many hours per day - if you are after direct muscle increase (and the risks associated with the type).
 
bigsmall said:
Yes, Folidrone 2.0 is the most advanced product of this nature on the market - bar none. Tons of logs and reviews on AM. I am not a rep btw...just want to see you get the most value for your money brother...
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I am sure there a lots of good brands out there, I had great results with Folidrone 2.0 also !!
 
I'm a big fan of natty supps like anafuse, follidrone, ep1c unleashed etc. I'd use them on and off year round.
 
Daycrawler said:
It's good stuff. CEL epi(-) is great. We also just released CEL M Test which is one of the best profiles I've seen in a long time.
Click to expand...

We? Are you a CEL rep also or are SNS and CEL owned by the same company? I looked at M-Test and was considering possibly picking up a bottle. Reasonably priced, not that prop blend BS, and has the DHT blockers - which some of us still appreciate.
 
210LBS said:
We? Are you a CEL rep also or are SNS and CEL owned by the same company? I looked at M-Test and was considering possibly picking up a bottle. Reasonably priced, not that prop blend BS, and has the DHT blockers - which some of us still appreciate.
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So far feedback on mtest has been great. Many stores are doing it at a great discount so now is the time to pick up a few.
 
TheIronAsylum said:
are people still taking this ? is it working? I heard its bad for tendons and ligaments?
whats the next big supp to come out
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I have taken Anafuse, Legendary, & FD2 (and some others, but I can't remember them).

Each person is different, but from my experience the best results came from Anafuse first, then FD2. Both were good, but I think Anafuse is better on a bulk, and FD2 is better on a recomp/cut. I was honestly disappointed with C&P Legendary. I literally took 5 bottles of the stuff at the highest dose, which lasted about 2 1/2 months, and it really didn't do anything. I haven't taken CEL, but am surprised to see such high promotion since all I have read online is fairly low reviews.
 
GNO said:
Could've fooled me...Mighty kind of you.

OP: -epi has several benefits like myostatin inhibition, strength, endurance, BP regulation. To realize these benefits a good absorption enhancer is critical. OL uses PhytoFuse technology in EP1C UNLEASHED which is the best I've tried.
Click to expand...

Yep, i live in Canada. I am not a rep. I have run EPIC, EPIC Unleashed and Folidrone 1.0. Personally, Folidrone 1.0 worked better than EPIC Unleashed. And Folidrone 2.0 is light years ahead of Folidone 1.0. Have you tried Folidrone 2.0?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
In regards to Myostatin suppression only:

OP, read this - I wouldn't buy it if you think it increases lean body mass through Myostatin decrease / Follistatin increase. Even if it did, it would be useless muscle making you more prone to injury, and you'd have to buy and use the product forever -



Invalid Link Removed

It's a healthy compound that may be good for other things like endurance, etc... but I would ask any manufacturer if their product suppresses Myostatin to 90% or more, and for how many hours per day - if you are after direct muscle increase (and the risks associated with the type).
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Interesting read. I had no idea it could be bad for tendons if inhibited too much.
 
bigsmall said:
Yep, i live in Canada. I am not a rep. I have run EPIC, EPIC Unleashed and Folidrone 1.0. Personally, Folidrone 1.0 worked better than EPIC Unleashed. And Folidrone 2.0 is light years ahead of Folidone 1.0. Have you tried Folidrone 2.0?
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Placebo?

I have ran ALL kind of Epicatechin products and the best one was high dose of Epiplex or Ep1c Unleashed.
Follidrone v1. Was like sugarpills.

As I said from the beginning (when folli v1 came out),

1.Epicatechin will NEVER inhibit Myostatin so much which will lead to size/strength.

2.epicatechin SHALL be taken on empty stomach and bioavailability/absorption enhancing compounds should be added!

3. It has good N.O boosting effect which can lead to better endurance, pumps etc.

4.good and strong antioxidant with many health properties
 
Danes said:
Placebo?

I have ran ALL kind of Epicatechin products and the best one was high dose of Epiplex or Ep1c Unleashed.
Follidrone v1. Was like sugarpills.

As I said from the beginning (when folli v1 came out),

1.Epicatechin will NEVER inhibit Myostatin so much which will lead to size/strength.

2.epicatechin SHALL be taken on empty stomach and bioavailability/absorption enhancing compounds should be added!

3. It has good N.O boosting effect which can lead to better endurance, pumps etc.

4.good and strong antioxidant with many health properties
Click to expand...

Just curious, what dosing are you talking about when you say high dose of epiplex?
 
Danes said:
Placebo?

I have ran ALL kind of Epicatechin products and the best one was high dose of Epiplex or Ep1c Unleashed.
Follidrone v1. Was like sugarpills.

As I said from the beginning (when folli v1 came out),

1.Epicatechin will NEVER inhibit Myostatin so much which will lead to size/strength.

2.epicatechin SHALL be taken on empty stomach and bioavailability/absorption enhancing compounds should be added!

3. It has good N.O boosting effect which can lead to better endurance, pumps etc.

4.good and strong antioxidant with many health properties
Click to expand...

I guess its Placebo for a ton of people as per the tons of positive AM feedback and the fact that folks keep buying more and more. Its working great for me. I have been running it for 5 months...just keeps getting better and better.
 
bigsmall said:
I guess its Placebo for a ton of people as per the tons of positive AM feedback and the fact that folks keep buying more and more. Its working great for me. I have been running it for 5 months...just keeps getting better and better.
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Definitely NOT placebo. EPI straight up works. I guess some people are just non responders. Because me and a bunch of people I know in real life have had incredible results from it.

Also if you check some of these people's post histories that trash EPI. They seem to pop up in every thread related to it possible to force their opinions on others.

A lot of people on these forums that have high reputations and long post histories are the last people you want to listen to because with high reputation comes ego. And their egos over time will blind them from truth.

I rarely post here because for the most part I find bodybuilding "bro" types to be some of the lowest forms of human consciousness on the planet.

Yet I lift myself and do find that there are some highly intelligent flowers growing in between the weeds.

Anyway if you know what you are doing in the gym(which a good 90 percent do not, in regards to strict mechanical form, tempo tension , workout structure and rest times), EPI will make a marked difference in your results.
 
210LBS said:
We? Are you a CEL rep also or are SNS and CEL owned by the same company? I looked at M-Test and was considering possibly picking up a bottle. Reasonably priced, not that prop blend BS, and has the DHT blockers - which some of us still appreciate.
Click to expand...

Yep to the SNS/CEL question. Hence why CEL and SNS have a long track record of quality products.

It's $30 before any coupon codes on a handful of board sponsors. Most are $27 after their respective 10% code.
 
Danes said:
Placebo?

I have ran ALL kind of Epicatechin products and the best one was high dose of Epiplex or Ep1c Unleashed.
Follidrone v1. Was like sugarpills.

As I said from the beginning (when folli v1 came out),

1.Epicatechin will NEVER inhibit Myostatin so much which will lead to size/strength.

2.epicatechin SHALL be taken on empty stomach and bioavailability/absorption enhancing compounds should be added!

3. It has good N.O boosting effect which can lead to better endurance, pumps etc.

4.good and strong antioxidant with many health properties
Click to expand...

210LBS said:
Just curious, what dosing are you talking about when you say high dose of epiplex?
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I'd like to know his dosing as well.
 
Woody said:
It's Danes so I would say > 1,000 mg lol
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You know me very well sir haha :)
I have been taking up to 1500mg. My endurance was nothing than amazing. Huge difference when on and off.
I also tried epiplex (3 caps)daily which is 900mg and it was also very good.
 
bigsmall said:
I guess its Placebo for a ton of people as per the tons of positive AM feedback and the fact that folks keep buying more and more. Its working great for me. I have been running it for 5 months...just keeps getting better and better.
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Ton of people? Who is ton of people. Come.on.
Epicatechin was overhyped when it came out. Claimed to be best natural anabolic, give sick strength gains and ton of people believed that. Sad but true. But after some.months people realized it is not so good as claimed.

So my question for you is:
How can Follidrone v1 (which is a blend of Epi and Rice flour and you have no clue how much actually it is pure Epi in each cap) be better than Epiplex (300mg epicatechin in each cap with piperine) or Ep1c Unleashed which is "advanced" epicatechin bonded to Phosphatidylcholine for superior bioavailability and absorprion?

I personaly have got many PM where people said they felt nothing from follidrone v1 but after running epiplex or Ep1c U. their endurance really improved and some guys reported blood pressure lowering effect. It is definitely due to boosted N.O
 
Surprised no one here me tions Epic Gainz.

350mg micronzied epicatechin in a liquid SEDDS delivery system, with 60 doses.

Little bit pricier than some others but without a doubt the best on the market IMHO. I really enjoyed my two runs with it.

EDIT: Looks like a bottle comes out to $53.
 
What is this stuff? I've seen it around. Any explanation / breakdown about it on this forum? I hear u can get it from bulk coco? similar to Lecithin granules providing PA? What does it do for you, in intrigued
 
drejb said:
What is this stuff? I've seen it around. Any explanation / breakdown about it on this forum? I hear u can get it from bulk coco? similar to Lecithin granules providing PA? What does it do for you, in intrigued
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It will boost N.O which gives better endurance and has plenty of health benefits. Thats it.
It does lower myostatin but it is not enough to give any gains at all.
Increased endurance and capacity lets you workout harder and it can help with strength gains due to increased endurance. Indirectly it may give you more size because you can push harder (but this part need a solid food intake, rest etc).

I mean it is worth running and having as a stample for overall health benefits but taking it believing it is a best natural anabolic, then dream on
 
ttortman78 said:
Definitely NOT placebo. EPI straight up works.
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Define "Works"? Are you saying that the man who discovered Myostatin, and other white coats like Welle who are doing research on it, are wrong - and that swallowing some -(-)epi will give you bigger muscles? If so, are you saying that they are further incorrect and that it will be functional muscle mass with no greater chance of Ligament/Tendon injury?

Also if you check some of these people's post histories that trash EPI. They seem to pop up in every thread related to it possible to force their opinions on others. A lot of people on these forums that have high reputations and long post histories are the last people you want to listen to because with high reputation comes ego. And their egos over time will blind them from truth. I rarely post here because for the most part I find bodybuilding "bro" types to be some of the lowest forms of human consciousness on the planet. Yet I lift myself and do find that there are some highly intelligent flowers growing in between the weeds. Anyway if you know what you are doing in the gym (which a good 90 percent do not, in regards to strict mechanical form, tempo tension, workout structure and rest times)...
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This was just entertaining to read, no reply necessary.

EPI will make a marked difference in your results.
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How "Marked" and in what parameters? It's healthy and can improve endurance and NO related functions - but it does not suppress 95% of your Myostatin for at least 20 hours a day, leading to increases in poorly functioning and injury prone muscle/ligaments/tendons.
 
Dosing 6 caps for a week. This week will be Dosing 8 for workout days. I want to test out this increment. Third bottle.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Define "Works"? Are you saying that the man who discovered Myostatin, and other white coats like Welle who are doing research on it, are wrong - and that swallowing some -(-)epi will give you bigger muscles? If so, are you saying that they are further incorrect and that it will be functional muscle mass with no greater chance of Ligament/Tendon injury?



This was just entertaining to read, no reply necessary.



How "Marked" and in what parameters? It's healthy and can improve endurance and NO related functions - but it does not suppress 95% of your Myostatin for at least 20 hours a day, leading to increases in poorly functioning and injury prone muscle/ligaments/tendons.
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There are other growth factors which are nessesary to get most of follistatin (decreasing myostatin). It is not just like increasing follistatin and then you have power building effect. So even injecting follistatin, it would not give you any WOW effect
 
ttortman78 said:
Definitely NOT placebo. EPI straight up works. I guess some people are just non responders. Because me and a bunch of people I know in real life have had incredible results from it.

Also if you check some of these people's post histories that trash EPI. They seem to pop up in every thread related to it possible to force their opinions on others.

A lot of people on these forums that have high reputations and long post histories are the last people you want to listen to because with high reputation comes ego. And their egos over time will blind them from truth.

I rarely post here because for the most part I find bodybuilding "bro" types to be some of the lowest forms of human consciousness on the planet.

Yet I lift myself and do find that there are some highly intelligent flowers growing in between the weeds.

Anyway if you know what you are doing in the gym(which a good 90 percent do not, in regards to strict mechanical form, tempo tension , workout structure and rest times), EPI will make a marked difference in your results.
Click to expand...

Who say Epicatechin does not work? Define "works" like The_Old_Guy asked.
It does, but not like its claimed.It is definitely one of better N.O boosters providing good pump, endurance and work capacity. You can push harder, ++. (Not to mention tons of health benefits).
But it will not pack on muscles due to follistatin/myostatin levels.

Some guys here who ran Epi changed Diet and workout routine while on it. That is just wrong way to test a product!
Ofcourse you will get stronger and bigger without any supps if you change crappy diet and poor workout plan to any better.

You wrote:
"A lot of people on these forums that have high reputations and long post histories are the last people you want to listen to because with high reputation comes ego. And their egos over time will blind them from truth."

First of all, I am not here to chase rep power. I give a .... in rep power.
I am not here to be loved/liked either.
I am here to help people picking up the right supplements for their goals etc.
They will get honest opinions and the FACTS. Not hype and made up claims.
 
Danes said:
Who say Epicatechin does not work? Define "works" like The_Old_Guy asked.
It does, but not like its claimed.It is definitely one of better N.O boosters providing good pump, endurance and work capacity. You can push harder, ++. (Not to mention tons of health benefits).
But it will not pack on muscles due to follistatin/myostatin levels.

Some guys here who ran Epi changed Diet and workout routine while on it. That is just wrong way to test a product!
Ofcourse you will get stronger and bigger without any supps if you change crappy diet and poor workout plan to any better
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To further your line of answers, Re: "Endurance" - becoming a Beast at HIIT and LISS builds "cardiovascular endurance". Sodium Bicarb and Beta-Alanine are proven "muscular endurance" builders. And Nitrates (either from Vegetables or pills/powders), along with L-Cit/Cit-Mal and Agmatine are good N.O. producers.

So the $$ value of even -(-)epi is questionable - but that's a personal decision for each to make.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
To further your line of answers, Re: "Endurance" - becoming a Beast at HIIT and LISS builds "cardiovascular endurance". Sodium Bicarb and Beta-Alanine are proven "muscular endurance" builders. And Nitrates (either from Vegetables or pills/powders), along with L-Cit/Cit-Mal and Agmatine are good N.O. producers.

So the $$ value of even -(-)epi is questionable - but that's a personal decision for each to make.
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Totaly agree
 
so i enjoyed all the answers but is there a product that is just epi- nothing else similar to how the optimum alpha product was?? need something to add onto the Ep1c unleashed to prolong the bottle
 
The_Old_Guy said:
To further your line of answers, Re: "Endurance" - becoming a Beast at HIIT and LISS builds "cardiovascular endurance". Sodium Bicarb and Beta-Alanine are proven "muscular endurance" builders. And Nitrates (either from Vegetables or pills/powders), along with L-Cit/Cit-Mal and Agmatine are good N.O. producers.

So the $$ value of even -(-)epi is questionable - but that's a personal decision for each to make.
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My personal experience is -epi boosts my HIIT capacity more than anything else, within days. Only the TD application however, fwiw.
 
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