Epi/Havoc Joints Adding Wet Compound ?

[monsterbox]

Well, I've had some great success with epi gaining a total of 40+lbs of LBM this year with the help of two cycles.

However, I have rough cartlidge and a small bone crack (defect) in my elbow from childhood injury.

I noticed that on my last cycle of havoc I ran 40mgs and my elbow killed. It became so swollen, immobile. I thought it was broken and took x-rays, mri, etc....immediately after stopping epi, within a few days, pain subsided substantially almost rediculous drop in pain. It was so bad on epi that I thought I was messed up for life.

My first cycle barely played with 30mgs and I hadn't as much pain.

So obviously, I hate/love epistane....I can probably only take about 2.5 weeks of it at 40mgs until I can't stand pain anylonger. I love the compound but even with Cissus behind it, the dryness it just way to harsh.

This really points me in the direction of the only legal joint safe powerhouse I can think of.....Phera-plex. I've heard that the water retention properties are almost of that with d-bol even though its aldersterone based and not aromatizing based retention. Regardless, this should be more than joint friendly?! ???

Would it make any sense, for my joint health, to run pheraplex for 3-4 week and bridge into 30-40mg of epi for 2 weeks or so? I really wouldn't be afraid to run say 20pher/30epi for 4 week straight...seems like id get the benifts of epistane and the joint cushion of phera all in one package? I really just don't want to dismiss epistane/havoc from my life...I love the little mofo.

What do you guys think? Similar to how people run winstrol (terrible of joints) with test.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I think there's some good synergy to be had between Phera and Epi in a stack or a bridge.

Personally I don't find Phera to be "wet" i think the wet/dryness is overrated, and it doesn't convert to estrogen anyway. I do think that gains made on Phera tend to be less solid.

I also think Revolt would be a good stacker with Epi. There's a log here that went pretty well. Because revolt is a wet progestin i kind of think of it like Deca. at 50-75mg ed it could be run as a base for an Epi cycle.

Or better yet, just use Superdrol.

 

[WarfareX]

A bud of mine is starting the P-Plex/Epi similar to what you were thinking of. You could also bridge the P-Plex into Tren or M-Drol, unless you're just absolutely sold on Epi.

40+ lbs of gained and retained LBM from 2 cycles? Damn dude, that's excellent.

 

[nattydisaster]

Damn man, 40+ pounds in a year is great! I would say add Revolt, but it's sold out EVERYWHERE. Maybe add some propadrol (both unmethylated and will keep you from getting to dry). If you can't find either of those...they I guess I would go with a LOW DOSE PPlex.

 

[crazyfool405]

I think there's some good synergy to be had between Phera and Epi in a stack or a bridge.

Personally I don't find Phera to be "wet" i think the wet/dryness is overrated, and it doesn't convert to estrogen anyway. I do think that gains made on Phera tend to be less solid.

I also think Revolt would be a good stacker with Epi. There's a log here that went pretty well. Because revolt is a wet progestin i kind of think of it like Deca. at 50-75mg ed it could be run as a base for an Epi cycle.

Or better yet, just use Superdrol.

i agree with the above, but if you choose revolt with it, USE CLOMID pct not nolva for the sake of non leaky nipples.

 

[TheAnimalG]

From what I've read, you can probably just add some DHEA, which will convert to both testosterone and some estrogen. The estrogen should help your joints a great deal. I think that might be perfect for you. It will shut you down slightly more, but at least its not methylated and you can easily find it in lower doses.

Primordial's Dermicrine is probably a good source.

 

[monsterbox]

1st of all, I did use dhea at 100mgs per day with epistane my last cycle...Libido was ANNOYING!!! and mood was good/agressive compared to my first run....it did nothing as far as shutting me down or adding joint support

2nd, how does epi compare to something like superdrol in terms of dryness...id imagine the gynodrol to be way more dry.

3rd...I what do you guys think is a better overall explosive gainer...epi or phera...? I like how epi is mild and you keep all the gains but you really don't feel like you are on top of the world with power.

- I notice phera gives a sh*tload of weight, increases carb sensativity, pumps and strength but alot of people loose alot afterwards (must be from the water)...but if epi was ran with phera...seems like phera would support the joints while epi maintains water levels....

I mean you have a highly androgenic (pheraplex) + highly anabolic (epistane) = ideal? right? isnt this the point of DHEA anyhow...to add an androgenic base? Or the point of test to add androgenity to highly anabolic compounds?

I would probably use Toremifene....I HATE NOLVA...is sucks donkeyballs...doesn't do crap but increase prolactin..make your nipps itch and leak..and make you feel shutdown worse. And I don't want to PMS on clomid.


I mean in general i've answered my own question...I need to stay away from dry compounds and run wet ones like pheraplex. This is probably what I should do...but I just don't want to leave my little epistane buddy out...I want the best of both worlds! epi-phera-stane

 

[UnrealMachine]

Dryness is an overdone term. SD, Epi, didn't notice a difference in terms of "dryness." I was just cutting on Phera, it wasn't "wet." My experience is that those words are way overdone.

I think in retrospect there was no difference at all in "wetness/dryness" between Epi, PP, SD
On all of them i held water weight and my muscles looked fuller but they didn't look leaner, drier, or denser. Certainly not more cut.

Phera is more of an explosive gainer, in that i start weight gain immediately. Epi doesn't really work on me but comparing with what everyone says the gains are more mild and even.

If you want to do a Phera->Epi bridge I think it's a good stack
PP 20/30/30/40
Epi 0/00/00/20/30/40

Or something like that. I think the 4th week on PP is more important than Epi because while Phera is fast with mass gains for me, it is slow with strength gains.

For me i used both Tor and nolva and i've always recovered easy but I feel like nolva worked slightly better. Just for me anyway.

 

[LilPsychotic]

Higher doses of epi wrecked my joints, I've had moderate relief from massive doses of fish oil. I think I'll stick to doses of <40mg, with epi.

 

[monsterbox]

Higher doses of epi wrecked my joints, I've had moderate relief from massive doses of fish oil. I think I'll stick to doses of <40mg, with epi.

any joint experiences with phera?

 

[bubagump]

Higher doses of epi wrecked my joints, I've had moderate relief from massive doses of fish oil. I think I'll stick to doses of <40mg, with epi.

same here, my elbows and knees were killing me and had an overall sick fealing once i hit 40mg a day. Fish oil/flax oil and dhea did nothing to help only time off of it did.

 

[crazilyfter42]

any joint experiences with phera?

My joints felt fine w/ dmt. Not any better or worse but the gains were explosive in weight and strength. Epi was different it dried me out basically no weight gain or strength gain though. H-drol was probably the worst joint wise but I really liked it, good vascularity, strength, but not much weight gain.

 

[monsterbox]

hey another cool question.

I've heard 3-AD is non-methylated Phera. I had extremely bad libido loss on 3-AD, I quit early because of it. Would this mean I'd respond the same if not worse to phera?

 

[monsterbox]

anymore comments on joints and phera guys? DMT hurts em or not?

 

[mixedup]

YOU have another alternative M14ad to Phera it's wet and it's good

 

[Ninjo]

anymore comments on joints and phera guys? DMT hurts em or not?

I've run two phera cycles in the last two years and never had joint issues. Also ran a cycle of Havoc earlier this year and had no problems. Dosing fish oil in the 20g/day range keeps my joints feeling fine. But that's just me...

 

[waynaferd]

If you want to do a Phera->Epi bridge I think it's a good stack
PP 20/30/30/40
Epi 0/00/00/20/30/40

Now I don't wanna derail here, but would that be a good "cutting" or "bulking" stack?