Epi andro gels dosing question

AndShane

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Looking to do one bottle of the epi andro gel. Want to limit side effects as much as possible, what dosing do you recommend that get decent results, not looking for a huge gain, just lean bulk and little strength.
 
Smont

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Sooooo, idk what epiandro gel is but as far as epiandro goes, 300mg of oral is the bare minimum and 150 transdermal is the bare minimum to see results. But, the results are also going to be minimum to non existent running it solo at those doses.

Solo epiandro is kinda silly unless you go 900oral or 450 transdermal.

And even then the results won't be mind blowing.

300mg 4 Andro daily alongside the doses listed above would be much more beneficial and still minimal to no side effects for most people
 

Foxx13

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Sooooo, idk what epiandro gel is but as far as epiandro goes, 300mg of oral is the bare minimum and 150 transdermal is the bare minimum to see results. But, the results are also going to be minimum to non existent running it solo at those doses.

Solo epiandro is kinda silly unless you go 900oral or 450 transdermal.

And even then the results won't be mind blowing.

300mg 4 Andro daily alongside the doses listed above would be much more beneficial and still minimal to no side effects for most people
What’s the purpose of adding in the 4-Andro? How does it compare to something like Dermacrine in this situation?
 
Smont

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What’s the purpose of adding in the 4-Andro? How does it compare to something like Dermacrine in this situation?
Dermacrine would be used to counter the effects of low testosterone or more importantly low estrogen. 4 Andro would do the same except it would add more to the cycle in terms of the ability to build or maintain muscle
 
GQdaLEGEND

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Looking to do one bottle of the epi andro gel. Want to limit side effects as much as possible, what dosing do you recommend that get decent results, not looking for a huge gain, just lean bulk and little strength.
So 2 pumps will give you 150mg and will lasts you 45-50 days

I’ve ran this and loved it but for experienced I would stack this with a 300mg cap of stanoplex

For you .. if u don’t plan on getting anything else run 2 pumps after shower
 
Smont

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What results with 2 pumps? Any side effects?
Side effects are 100% user dependent, no one can tell you what your side effects are going to be. For the large majority of people there should be no side effects of that dose. But your results will be minimal to the point that I personally do not find it worthwhile. You don't want to screw with your hormones for little to no results. Also I hope you have some nolva on hand because this is going to suppress your natural testosterone production.
 
Smont

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Also with all anabolics, your results are largely dependent on your diet
 

AndShane

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Understand , what’s a product that is a transdermal you would recommend for some gains with the side effect profile of epi per say. Don’t really want estrogen conversion
 
KvanH

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I wouldn't use anything under 600 mg oral or 300 mg TD epiandro, if it's the only thing you're running. And even those are the bare minimun doses, imo.

What kind of side effects are you looking to stave away from? The only sides I can think of - from the top of my head - people possibly experiencing with Epiandro are increased BP, dryness of joints and increased anxiety. I don't get any of those sides with Epiandro, so some do some don't. Taking enough of it and you'll get suppressed and suffer from the sides, that come with it.

And in some situations (many), you absolutely do want estrogen conversion. It's the lack of estrogen in many cases, that induce the sides and issues, when running suppressive compounds and nothing, that converts to estrogen.

Anyway, trying to understand what you are looking for, I think Epiandro, Androsterone and 11-KT are the type of compounds you'll want. All mild on sides typically (non for many), relatively easy on hpta and just easy going overall. Iconic Formulations has all of these in TD form.

For TD Epiandro dosing to get decent results - as you ask - I'd say 300 - 600 mg. I'd personally be looking to do 400+ mg.
 

Oliver Kween

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So
So 2 pumps will give you 150mg and will lasts you 45-50 days

I’ve ran this and loved it but for experienced I would stack this with a 300mg cap of stanoplex

For you .. if u don’t plan on getting anything else run 2 pumps after shower
So, you Stack 2 source of Epi ?
 

Oliver Kween

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Nice idea about Dermacrine, but what is the composition ? ( Not notified in PowerMy)
 
KvanH

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Nice idea about Dermacrine, but what is the composition ? ( Not notified in PowerMy)
 
GQdaLEGEND

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So


So, you Stack 2 source of Epi ?
Yup alot of people do .. TD epi andro + stano-plex is pretty awesome

same way i would treat andro's .. TD+caps

main thing why i like it for advance users > you dont have to do full doses ..so if a person was liking 600mg of stano plex .. that one bottle stano plex would last him 2 months when running 300mg pre + full dose of TD
 

Oliver Kween

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+1 KvanH💪🙏
 
cheftepesh1

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Dermacrine would be used to counter the effects of low testosterone or more importantly low estrogen. 4 Andro would do the same except it would add more to the cycle in terms of the ability to build or maintain muscle
This is what I would say. 4 andro is a better option as it adds to the cycle and for most low sides. Dermacrine would have almost no sides and limit lethargy.
 
Smont

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This is what I would say. 4 andro is a better option as it adds to the cycle and for most low sides. Dermacrine would have almost no sides and limit lethargy.
Something I've found that might interest you and a lot of ppl is that guys who blast and cruise for a extended period or have been on trt for years usually start to have problems with dhea, pregnenolone ect. They also may have bottomed out there shbg for too long. Using something like dermacrine along side the trt seems to help bring those things back to normal. A even better approach might to run a course of hcg and then follow up with the dermacrine. Or follow up with some dhea and pregnenolone
 

Oliver Kween

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Just a heads up, you might wanna dose slightly higher then the recommended dose. 5-6 pumps was the Sweet spot for me back when I regularly used thos stuff
Yes, i think should use for start a basic dosage, like 5 for the begining ! Thks

May be too, find an balance with DIM (brocolis)
 
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GrowinBoy36

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Sooooo, idk what epiandro gel is but as far as epiandro goes, 300mg of oral is the bare minimum and 150 transdermal is the bare minimum to see results. But, the results are also going to be minimum to non existent running it solo at those doses.

Solo epiandro is kinda silly unless you go 900oral or 450 transdermal.

And even then the results won't be mind blowing.

300mg 4 Andro daily alongside the doses listed above would be much more beneficial and still minimal to no side effects for most people
Is 8 weeks ok to run the andro the giant plus stanoplex??
 

uncle-rico

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How much mg would I get from 1 pump IF Epiandro and Apex Stanogen?
 
GQdaLEGEND

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uncle-rico

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ok, thanks, so 4-5 pumps of either one would be a good starting dose.
 

GrowinBoy36

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Sooooo, idk what epiandro gel is but as far as epiandro goes, 300mg of oral is the bare minimum and 150 transdermal is the bare minimum to see results. But, the results are also going to be minimum to non existent running it solo at those doses.

Solo epiandro is kinda silly unless you go 900oral or 450 transdermal.

And even then the results won't be mind blowing.

300mg 4 Andro daily alongside the doses listed above would be much more beneficial and still minimal to no side effects for most people
Also, what would you suggest if I run into any gyno issues? And pct?

I've had gyno before but I'm pretty sure it was the 19nors back in the day
 

GrowinBoy36

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8 weeks is standard for an andro cycle
Awesome thanks man.

I'm trying to put together my standard anti gyno regimen now. Would you go real pct and AI? Or AI and natty pct? Or no AI and just real pct ? Still researching. Any help is appreciated!
 
Rad83

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Awesome thanks man.

I'm trying to put together my standard anti gyno regimen now. Would you go real pct and AI? Or AI and natty pct? Or no AI and just real pct ? Still researching. Any help is appreciated!
Have everything on hand before you start.

Exemestane but you will likely not need it.
At least 1 serm for pct.

What’s the cycle layout?….If it’s just 4 andro and epiandro,…I suggest adding 1 andro…Keep searching!
 

Oliver Kween

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I think too something like Ribirth and Viron from BLR

Black Lion Research | Legendary Sports Nutrition


So, my opinion,

So looking for a serm for begining is for me too impacting or impatcfull. Go slowy and care.

Looking for what is good for you. Rad83 is right when he say you must have all what you need before start, that's very important ! No smooth plan, no washing machine

About Exemestane
This medicine belongs to the family of aromatase inhibitors: it blocks an enzyme, called aromatase, necessary for the synthesis of estrogens by the adrenal gland and the fatty tissues of the body after menopause. It thus makes it possible to fight against the development of breast cancers whose growth is stimulated by estrogens.

But, @Rad83 what dosage you advise ? For me I guess 1 andro ( 1 testo ?) must be the less dosing in the stack, and 4-andro up. For Epi no idea but over 1-andro,
 
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Oliver Kween

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Ok, each on their own or with each other?

1-andro : 165 + 4-andro 165 for example ?
 
Rad83

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Typically those two are stacked together.

I ran epiandro and 1 andro, and it was good, but had I added in 4 andro or at least dermacrine it would have been better.

1 andro can be very suppressive and lethargy inducing and 4 andro or dermacrine would combat that, quite a bit. Apex Alchemy makes Hyperion which would work well too, it wasn’t available when I ran 1 andro.
 

Oliver Kween

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Typically those two are stacked together.

I ran epiandro and 1 andro, and it was good, but had I added in 4 andro or at least dermacrine it would have been better.

1 andro can be very suppressive and lethargy inducing and 4 andro or dermacrine would combat that, quite a bit. Apex Alchemy makes Hyperion which would work well too, it wasn’t available when I ran 1 andro.

Ok it's my soon cycle too. I have Hyperion and Demacrine.

But i guess if i should use Helladrol ( he have 4-andro and epi, but boldenone too). Or just Brutal force + 1 andro ( lg science ) + stanogen
 

GrowinBoy36

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Im 31. 5'11" 220. I plan on running topical 4 andro and stanogen for sure. 600mg stano. 300mg 4 andro.

Now I'm interested in 300 mg 1 andro as well.
I've never heard of exemestane. I will look into. I've heard of some other AIs.

Do we think Nolva 20 20 10 10 would be sufficient?

I may have low T. I'm currently 7 weeks into AE Mtest and Epiplex and BYLD and I recently noticed less libido. Even though I don't get how this natty stack would be suppressive.

Of course I will also have some cycle assist, would I need any other precautionary supps?
 

Oliver Kween

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Okay,

So as @Smont would say, be careful with the TD , they are sometimes X2 than the orals. 300 for 4-andro is a good dose. I'll take it twice less , like 200. But it depends on the user. Others will tell you that you can fit a little more PPE. But I won't find it necessary given the amount of the stack. 1 Andro I do not master too much. I just heard he's there to complete 4-andro, maybe EPI is the fuel and 1-andro + 4-andro the mustang.

That's why I stay on values on @BLR ( VIRON ET RIBIRTH ) and @sns, also M-TEST.

In leverage, I use

Where

But I'm sure that at SNS if I look closely, I can find as well

For the precautions

I am thinking of the supplement for the liver, etc.

For your libido

For the base:
May be arginine, Vitamin D, Gaba, L-glutamine
Then, for safety see at SNS Optimize T , Horny G -weed

I wonder why that why this stack become suppressive, ( epi ??? )

Either something is missing or you add something extra.

Be careful if you crush your estrogens TOO MUCH, you will have a lot of annoyance just like the lack of libido

Maybe you should stop for a while, do a cleanse rinse for liver, porostat and all. (sometimes the lack of libido comes from a damaged porostat, too big).


Then the last step would be the blood test.
 
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KvanH

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Im 31. 5'11" 220. I plan on running topical 4 andro and stanogen for sure. 600mg stano. 300mg 4 andro.

Now I'm interested in 300 mg 1 andro as well.
I've never heard of exemestane. I will look into. I've heard of some other AIs.

Do we think Nolva 20 20 10 10 would be sufficient?

I may have low T. I'm currently 7 weeks into AE Mtest and Epiplex and BYLD and I recently noticed less libido. Even though I don't get how this natty stack would be suppressive.

Of course I will also have some cycle assist, would I need any other precautionary supps?
I would definitely add the 1-Andro myself (or other anabolic). 300 mg may not be enough. It's a good place to start, but I would recommend having enough on hand to be able to up the dose, if felt like it. I prefer topicals for all andros myself.

Nolva 20/20/10/10 should be fine for an 8 week andro run in most cases. Only bloodwork would tell the whole story though.

You may have heard Exemestane called by it's brand name of Aromasin? It's a pharma/RC AI and probably the best choice for many cases.

Libido can swing and there could be a host of different reasons for it to change. Mental aspects not being the least common of reasons. I wouldn't try to estimate test production based on libido. None of those supps should suppress your T production. M-Test is designed to improve hormonal balances, but responses vary individually. So it's possible for it to affect your libido negatively, but typically people report the opposite effect.

SERM PCT is the main 'accessory'. Cycle support supps are never a bad idea. Everything else is extra nice to have stuff. Like a cortisol control supp in PCT, T-booster in PCT..
 
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Oliver Kween

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J’ajouterais certainement le 1-Andro moi-même (ou un autre anabolisant). 300 mg peuvent ne pas suffire. C’est un bon point de départ, mais je recommanderais d’en avoir assez sous la main pour pouvoir augmenter la dose, si vous en avez envie. Je préfère les topiques pour tous les andros moi-même.

Nolva 20/20/10/10 devrait être bien pour une course andro de 8 semaines dans la plupart des cas. Seules les analyses de sang raconteraient toute l’histoire.

Vous avez peut-être entendu Exemestane appelé par son nom de marque Aromasin? C’est une IA pharmaceutique / RC et probablement le meilleur choix pour de nombreux cas.

La libido peut basculer et il pourrait y avoir une foule de raisons différentes pour qu’elle change. Les aspects mentaux n’étant pas la moindre des raisons. Je n’essaierais pas d’estimer la production de tests en fonction de la libido. Aucun de ces supps ne devrait supprimer votre production de T. M-Test est conçu pour améliorer les équilibres hormonaux, mais les réponses varient individuellement. Il est donc possible que cela affecte négativement votre libido, mais généralement les gens rapportent l’effet inverse.

SERM PCT est le principal « accessoire ». Les supps de support de cycle ne sont jamais une mauvaise idée. Tout le reste est très agréable d’avoir des trucs. Comme un supp de contrôle du cortisol dans le PCT, T-booster dans le PCT.
[/CITATION]


you Faire
I would definitely add the 1-Andro myself (or other anabolic). 300 mg may not be enough. It's a good place to start, but I would recommend having enough on hand to be able to up the dose, if felt like it. I prefer topicals for all andros myself.

Nolva 20/20/10/10 should be fine for an 8 week andro run in most cases. Only bloodwork would tell the whole story though.

You may have heard Exemestane called by it's brand name of Aromasin? It's a pharma/RC AI and probably the best choice for many cases.

Libido can swing and there could be a host of different reasons for it to change. Mental aspects not being the least common of reasons. I wouldn't try to estimate test production based on libido. None of those supps should suppress your T production. M-Test is designed to improve hormonal balances, but responses vary individually. So it's possible for it to affect your libido negatively, but typically people report the opposite effect.

SERM PCT is the main 'accessory'. Cycle support supps are never a bad idea. Everything else is extra nice to have stuff. Like a cortisol control supp in PCT, T-booster in PCT..

Do you think that PROVIRON is a Option too ?
 

GrowinBoy36

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I would definitely add the 1-Andro myself (or other anabolic). 300 mg may not be enough. It's a good place to start, but I would recommend having enough on hand to be able to up the dose, if felt like it. I prefer topicals for all andros myself.

Nolva 20/20/10/10 should be fine for an 8 week andro run in most cases. Only bloodwork would tell the whole story though.

You may have heard Exemestane called by it's brand name of Aromasin? It's a pharma/RC AI and probably the best choice for many cases.

Libido can swing and there could be a host of different reasons for it to change. Mental aspects not being the least common of reasons. I wouldn't try to estimate test production based on libido. None of those supps should suppress your T production. M-Test is designed to improve hormonal balances, but responses vary individually. So it's possible for it to affect your libido negatively, but typically people report the opposite effect.

SERM PCT is the main 'accessory'. Cycle support supps are never a bad idea. Everything else is extra nice to have stuff. Like a cortisol control supp in PCT, T-booster in PCT..
Appreciate the help fellas!

I just put the order in for 3 bottles of TD 4andro and 2 bottles of TD 1andro. I'll try 600 stano oral. 300 1andro topical. and 300 4andro topical.

I'll go ahead and put in the order for Nolva and Aromasin! Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

So my accessories will be CEL cycle assist, vitamin D, preworkout, creatine, multi. (maybe BYLD)

I'll see how Im feeling and use aromasin if necessary. For PCT i'll run nolva, Mtest, AE, and SNS cortisol supp. (maybe BYLD)

I'll go ahead and get the bloodwork done here soon. Or maybe toward the end of the andro run. But eventually i'll be responsible and get the bloodwork.

I'm excited, thanks again everyone
 
Smont

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Appreciate the help fellas!

I just put the order in for 3 bottles of TD 4andro and 2 bottles of TD 1andro. I'll try 600 stano oral. 300 1andro topical. and 300 4andro topical.

I'll go ahead and put in the order for Nolva and Aromasin! Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

So my accessories will be CEL cycle assist, vitamin D, preworkout, creatine, multi. (maybe BYLD)

I'll see how Im feeling and use aromasin if necessary. For PCT i'll run nolva, Mtest, AE, and SNS cortisol supp. (maybe BYLD)

I'll go ahead and get the bloodwork done here soon. Or maybe toward the end of the andro run. But eventually i'll be responsible and get the bloodwork.

I'm excited, thanks again everyone


Code: smont

15% off nolva and adex
 
KvanH

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Appreciate the help fellas!

I just put the order in for 3 bottles of TD 4andro and 2 bottles of TD 1andro. I'll try 600 stano oral. 300 1andro topical. and 300 4andro topical.

I'll go ahead and put in the order for Nolva and Aromasin! Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

So my accessories will be CEL cycle assist, vitamin D, preworkout, creatine, multi. (maybe BYLD)

I'll see how Im feeling and use aromasin if necessary. For PCT i'll run nolva, Mtest, AE, and SNS cortisol supp. (maybe BYLD)

I'll go ahead and get the bloodwork done here soon. Or maybe toward the end of the andro run. But eventually i'll be responsible and get the bloodwork.

I'm excited, thanks again everyone
The 300 mg minimun doses are for oral Andros. For TD's you can halve the starting dose. More is many times better with Andros, but I wouldn't start with 300 mg TD 1-Andro. Rather 150-200 mg and see how things go and be ready to up the dose. I've done fine running suppressive compounds with 150 mg of 4-Andro TD. It was better for me, than 300 mg oral. But 300 mg of TD 4-Andro is not crazy or anything, just not necessary. With 1-Andro you may run in to some not so fun sides with 300 mg TD.

If you want to check hormonal values and how you've recovered via blood test, then you need to draw blood before the start of your cycle, so you have baseline values to compare to after the run.
 
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KvanH

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Do you think that PROVIRON is a Option too ?
Option for what? In this Andro stack -scenario, if you want to replace something with it, it would be Epiandro. Both work via increasing DHT, but the effects are still quite different.

It wouldn't replace the anabolism of 1-Andro. It wouldn't replace the sex hormone conversion of 4-Andro. I wouldn't rely on it as an estrogen control back up. I wouldn't add it to PCT.
 

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The 300 mg minimun doses are for oral Andros. For TD's you can halve the starting dose. More is many times better with Andros, but I wouldn't start with 300 mg TD 1-Andro. Rather 150-200 mg and see how things go and be ready to up the dose. I've done fine running suppressive compounds with 150 mg of 4-Andro TD. It was better for me, than 300 mg oral. But 300 mg of TD 4-Andro is not crazy or anything, just not necessary. With 1-Andro you may run in to some not so fun sides with 300 mg TD.

If you want to check hormonal values and how you've recovered via blood test, then you need to draw blood before the start of your cycle, so you have baseline values to compare after the run.
Ok yeah I read the suggested use wrong. So IML says 100mg twice daily. and IML 4andro says 75mg 2-4 times daily. So yeah i'll likely start on the lower end and see how that does.

And touche' on the bloodwork. I'll get it done before hand as well. Here in about 5 weeks i'll get starter bloodwork done.
 

Oliver Kween

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Option for what? In this Andro stack -scenario, if you want to replace something with it, it would be Epiandro. Both work via increasing DHT, but the effects are still quite different.

It wouldn't replace the anabolism of 1-Andro. It wouldn't replace the sex hormone conversion of 4-Andro. I wouldn't rely on it as an estrogen control back up. I wouldn't add it to PCT.
Yep i mean Proviron during the PCT ?
Ok that's useless

And for what he is necessary so ?
 
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KvanH

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No Proviron during the PCT ?
I wouldn't use it myself. It's an exogenous androgen and can be / is midly suppressive to test production.

I've heard guys using it on PCT sometimes though, so they have estimated the positives to outweigh the negatives for them. I have tried it once myself in the first 2 weeks of PCT to combat low libido and mood and I think the PCT went fine. But on a theoretical level, it's not a good addition, when you're trying to get your endogenous test production back up asap. But I guess in practice the positives can outweigh the negatives. All I'm saying is I wouldn't add it to PCT myself. But I'm not strongly against it either.
 

Oliver Kween

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I wouldn't use it myself. It's an exogenous androgen and can be / is midly suppressive to test production.

I've heard guys using it on PCT sometimes though, so they have estimated the positives to outweigh the negatives for them. I have tried it once myself in the first 2 weeks of PCT to combat low libido and mood and I think the PCT went fine. But on a theoretical level, it's not a good addition, when you're trying to get your endogenous test production back up asap. But I guess in practice the positives can outweigh the negatives. All I'm saying is I wouldn't add it to PCT myself. But I'm not strongly against it either.

OK

I was asking because I've seen guys talk about it positively, especially after a turinabol cycle.
 

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I also have some Ursa Major that I've never used. Stack with the Andro stack? or wait for down the road?
 
KvanH

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I also have some Ursa Major that I've never used. Stack with the Andro stack? or wait for down the road?
You already have quite a bit of TD's to apply and Ursa shines on a cut. So I would personally save it for your next cut or add it to PCT to help minimize fat gain. Be sure to eat enough and train your a$$ off on PCT, so you'll keep as much of the gains as possible made on cycle.
 
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You already have quite a bit of TD's to apply and Ursa shines on a cut. So I would personally save it for your next cut or add it to PCT to help minimize fat gain. Make sure to eat enough and train your a$$ off on PCT, so you'll keep as much of the gains as possible made on cycle.
Will do man. Appreciate all of the tips.
 

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