Election of 2012....Who ya got?
- Thread starter AE14
- Start date
Whacked
Well-known member
Little help?
Look fellas, first off let me establish a much-needed disclaimer so I don't get flamed off this board into a black hole. I do not believe any of these people are genuine. I "get it" with all the rampant hippocrisy in politics, etc.
However, educate me here - is it NOT better to have Romney in there (or any Republican in there for that matter) who supports small businesses/lower taxes/not spreading the wealth around thru spurring growth and ceasing with all this entitelment crap that is breeding and begetting more pernicious hand-outs/entitlement mindsets? Even if it's just the on the veneer with which these cats operate, is it still NOT better to eradicate evenb SOME of the nonsense out that Obama is doing?
"I get it" that there is a bigger, larger agenda that we will never have any control over, and that at the end of the day, we are insigificant peasants in this county. However, to "us" our lives still matter and not spreading the wealth around keeping MY hard-earned money beats where things are headed (Obama re-election). Again, I accept that all these cats are phony, isn't a president who's agenda helps this country thrive more help US, the bottom feeders who choose to work and make a life for our families instead of acting like carp/leeches takign a handout ONLY?
How does an Obama re-election = a Romney win. There HAS TO BE some differences, some benefits that trickle down to us (unless you are one that prefers a purely socialist/psuedo-communistic way of life where the gov't feeds you). If Obama had it his way, he'd implement a totalitarian regime. we saw that several times now when he didnt get permission from Congress to go to war and now with his blatant disregard/disrespect for the Judicial branch of gov't (Obamacare is about to get repealed).
Look fellas, first off let me establish a much-needed disclaimer so I don't get flamed off this board into a black hole. I do not believe any of these people are genuine. I "get it" with all the rampant hippocrisy in politics, etc.
However, educate me here - is it NOT better to have Romney in there (or any Republican in there for that matter) who supports small businesses/lower taxes/not spreading the wealth around thru spurring growth and ceasing with all this entitelment crap that is breeding and begetting more pernicious hand-outs/entitlement mindsets? Even if it's just the on the veneer with which these cats operate, is it still NOT better to eradicate evenb SOME of the nonsense out that Obama is doing?
"I get it" that there is a bigger, larger agenda that we will never have any control over, and that at the end of the day, we are insigificant peasants in this county. However, to "us" our lives still matter and not spreading the wealth around keeping MY hard-earned money beats where things are headed (Obama re-election). Again, I accept that all these cats are phony, isn't a president who's agenda helps this country thrive more help US, the bottom feeders who choose to work and make a life for our families instead of acting like carp/leeches takign a handout ONLY?
How does an Obama re-election = a Romney win. There HAS TO BE some differences, some benefits that trickle down to us (unless you are one that prefers a purely socialist/psuedo-communistic way of life where the gov't feeds you). If Obama had it his way, he'd implement a totalitarian regime. we saw that several times now when he didnt get permission from Congress to go to war and now with his blatant disregard/disrespect for the Judicial branch of gov't (Obamacare is about to get repealed).
carpee
Well-known member
I am with your thinking Whacked.
Romney will continue huge government/war/spending but if the "free" market is able to work and the economy can thrive then yes it will be better for us day to day.
the curve ball is occupy wall street, van Jones, bill ayers, Frances fox piven, etc. are coordinating to try to end capitalism..
Romney will continue huge government/war/spending but if the "free" market is able to work and the economy can thrive then yes it will be better for us day to day.
the curve ball is occupy wall street, van Jones, bill ayers, Frances fox piven, etc. are coordinating to try to end capitalism..
Whacked
Well-known member
You obviously understand MY point 
All these anti-capitalistic leaders gaining ground in this country (Obama and his cronies to name a few) are going to turn us into Greece. That's their plight! Anyone watching what's going on over there? Give give give and you breed laziness, make people sloths, and force them to capitulate personally, thus lending itself to a land of unmotivated entitled beggars; the antithesis of what capitalism ":can do" even for us lowly people/common folks!
They WANT us to turn into helpless pond scum begging for food and hand outs. Capitalism offers freedom from this. I get it that we are not as free as we want to belive, I get it! BUT, we are better off than the citizens of Greece who have been mind-raped for years and cannot stand on their own now! If you think things are bad now, one more Obama term and we are going to beg for the state of affairs circa 2012.
All these anti-capitalistic leaders gaining ground in this country (Obama and his cronies to name a few) are going to turn us into Greece. That's their plight! Anyone watching what's going on over there? Give give give and you breed laziness, make people sloths, and force them to capitulate personally, thus lending itself to a land of unmotivated entitled beggars; the antithesis of what capitalism ":can do" even for us lowly people/common folks!
They WANT us to turn into helpless pond scum begging for food and hand outs. Capitalism offers freedom from this. I get it that we are not as free as we want to belive, I get it! BUT, we are better off than the citizens of Greece who have been mind-raped for years and cannot stand on their own now! If you think things are bad now, one more Obama term and we are going to beg for the state of affairs circa 2012.
Conagher
Active member
A 22LR can do a lot of damage.Definitely has to be in the lineup.
Whacked
Well-known member
Does it not bother anyone that the leader of our freaking nation has aligned himself with self-avowed, proud, admitted, terroristic and devoutly Anti-American, Pro-Communism, Pro-Marxism, Pro-Socialism, punks?
Egomaniac-Obama's pals are America-hatingReverend Wright, Van Jones, Saul Alinski, Bill Ayers, Frank Davis (his communist mentor), George Soros, Valerie Jarritt, amongst other INTERESTING characters that would gladly urinate on the flag, the Constitution, George Washington, and Abe Lincoln if given the chance. Throw Christianity and our allegiance to Israel in the mix for that matter (but I will leave religion out of this).
Again, many of you engaged in this discussion are uber intelligent and well-versed at politics and God bless ya for it......but to tell me Obama is EQUALLY as ROMNEY is flat out LUDICROUS.
I refuse to subscribe to this notion.
It wasn't Mitt Romney, George Bush Jr or Sr, or John McCain for that matter who got an endorsement from the Communist Party either. It was out America-loathing President ... Obama.
It isn't ANY President in our history that happens to be best friends with Islamic (coincidence?) President of communist Kenya either!
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...........
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Egomaniac-Obama's pals are America-hatingReverend Wright, Van Jones, Saul Alinski, Bill Ayers, Frank Davis (his communist mentor), George Soros, Valerie Jarritt, amongst other INTERESTING characters that would gladly urinate on the flag, the Constitution, George Washington, and Abe Lincoln if given the chance. Throw Christianity and our allegiance to Israel in the mix for that matter (but I will leave religion out of this).
Again, many of you engaged in this discussion are uber intelligent and well-versed at politics and God bless ya for it......but to tell me Obama is EQUALLY as ROMNEY is flat out LUDICROUS.
I refuse to subscribe to this notion.
It wasn't Mitt Romney, George Bush Jr or Sr, or John McCain for that matter who got an endorsement from the Communist Party either. It was out America-loathing President ... Obama.
It isn't ANY President in our history that happens to be best friends with Islamic (coincidence?) President of communist Kenya either!
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...........
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Whacked
Well-known member
Just calling it like I see it. People can sit around an deny it and play this stupid game of avoidance, or politics or whatever you choose to label it but I chose to see this loser for what he is.
Admitting his desire to "Fundamentally change this country" (paraphrasing his words) sound like a joke to any of you?
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Admitting his desire to "Fundamentally change this country" (paraphrasing his words) sound like a joke to any of you?
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Whacked
Well-known member
Amen to that brother
PS: More calling it like I see it........
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PS: More calling it like I see it........
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EasyEJL
Never enough
see the critical part here is will romney's policies as passed "supports small businesses/lower taxes/not spreading the wealth around thru spurring growth and ceasing with all this entitelment crap that is breeding and begetting more pernicious hand-outs/entitlement mindsets"? You have to wonder, more or less everyone talks smaller government/lower taxes/whatever till they get elected. Then they play the blame game as to why they can't do it.
Rahl
Well-known member
Whacked said:
They mean what they say. They just haven't been told what they are going to do until they are actually elected.
The hatred towards Obama honestly amazes me. He is no worse than Bush was. Most of his "bailout" policy is a continuation of Bush. I'm not saying I agree with the guy but to say Bush was better or supported small government when he expanded Medicare, created a domestic spy agency (DHS), TSA, Started 2 wars and crippled the country in debt? I don't think so. That's no small government conservative. That's a big government fascist.
I won't start with Israel other than to say as a christian I believe God will decide
What happens to Israel not the president of the untied states or any other man.
StangBanger
Well-known member
yes everyone seems to forget that Obama inherited 50% of the sh*t he is being blamed for... but thats another story - its just easy for those who dont understand how govt works to say "its all Obamas fault"...
Obama sucks... Bush sucked.. I actually liked Clinton because during his regime, my money - was mine, jobs were plentiful and things were good.
steppinRazor
Well-known member
def non violent. and agreed, its complete bull****.
word.. ima look into that. repped..
well actually i cant rep u again..haha
Whacked
Well-known member
For the most part, I agree. At the end of the day, they all stink. My disgust is based on his ANTI-AMERICAN agenda! He's on a whole different playing field as a result!
With respect to Israil - Nail on head buddy!!
Did he think he wouldnt inherit the debt when he ran? Was he unaware? LOL Also, when exactly does this debt become his? He TRIPLED IT with his failed billion dollar bail outs + job creations along with Obamacare which will also bleed us bone dry! LOLOLOL. I think it's officially HIS now
Agreed- they all stink!
LOL all good
Rahl
Well-known member
Whacked said:For the most part, I agree. At the end of the day, they all stink. My disgust is based on his ANTI-AMERICAN agenda! He's on a whole different playing field as a result!
With respect to Israil - Nail on head buddy!!
Did he think he wouldnt inherit the debt when he ran? Was he unaware? LOL Also, when exactly does this debt become his? He TRIPLED IT with his failed billion dollar bail outs + job creations along with Obamacare which will also bleed us bone dry! LOLOLOL. I think it's officially HIS now
Agreed- they all stink!
LOL all good
I remember talking to my brother in 07 about the election and saying, "what ****in idiot would want to inherit this mess, it can't be fixed in 4 years".
I'm honestly glad he hasn't bitten the austerity carrot yet. It's killed europe. And it would kill us too. We need to reign in our budget but that didn't mean immediate cuts. It means getting your house in order but not selling your doors and windows. Lol
My problem with every republican running except Paul is that they want to increase the defense budget. It's already been massively increased since 9/11 and that's not counting the "off budget" wars. Lobbyist control the defense budget more than any other part of the budget. It's so easy to terrify people into justifying the spending. What color is the "terror alert" today? Lol
I think if Obama wins he will let all of the Bush tax cuts expire which IMO is a good thing because it will bring down the long term deficit. I don't really want to pay more taxes either but if we're going to keep spending I'd rather stop borrowing it. You can cut taxes when you can offset them with some spending cuts. Both wings are so entrenched in special interest that they are not allowed to compromise. Remember those "mandatory" defense cuts? Already working on undoing them and my congressman is ready to vote to repeal just the spending cut part.
I laugh when I get my emails from him about how Ocare was supposed to cut cost but it hasn't yet. That's because it wasn't designed to yet. None of the cost control measures takes effect until 2014! Lol whether the supreme court knocks it down or not doesn't really matter. Only the cost control measures will get nixed. The "benefits" will stay and there will be no way to pay for it. Insurance companies= win. Tax payers= lose.
Conagher
Active member
From what I have read about him,he would probably be the ultimate socialist.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
You are correct. Socialism could in fact work perfectly if:
1) the pie is eternal and
2) the leader that facilitates is also perfect in character
Both of which Jesus could provide. Socialism isn't evil but it's the men who facilitate it that are. I can't see how Karl Marx missed this exact flaw in human society.
ax1
Legend
Karl Marx was funded by Wallstreet bankers, as well as Rothschild. Its intent isnt what it is on paper
In order for socialism to work as well, you would have to trust goverment in the long run, even if the leader was perfect with good intent, his/her powers are only temporary. Handing over powers to government will be a catastrophe in the long run, its inevitable.
We can have a democratic socialist government but democracy obviously did not work in America either. Nothing will, its always going to be a constant battle between people vs. the elite but if we can keep power away from government and military powers off our own soil (which those constitutional laws are officially extinct in the USA now) the people will have a better chance.
Conagher
Active member
Agreed.The inherent flaw is in man himself.I find it amusing that our society has recreated Jesus into a material seeking capitalist.
Whacked
Well-known member
Socialism is all about what you can get. Jesus is all about what you can give.
Socialism breeds laziness and handouts. Jesus was always an advocate of hard work.
Socialism is about dependence on the gov't. Jesus taught man to be independent and focus on God, even if that meant leaving your mother, father, sister, or brother and that every man stood alone on Judgement Day.
Socialism is about speading the wealth. Jesus is about spreading the Word.
Socialism not only implies "sharing", it also implies ''taking'', perhaps even unwillingly (aka 'theft') from those that have it. Jesus wasn't a thief nor did he espouse forcing any man to do anything his heart was not convicted about. He merely preached and provided examples/rationales as to why certain actions or non actions would be/could be harmful either short term or long term (eternity).
Socialism is essentially about the totalitarian authority of the gov't. Jesus is about the authority of God over all.
Jesus encouraged men not to prioritize their riches over Him b/c at the end the day, you can't take it with you when you die.
Jesus very rarely got involved with Politics, Bog Government, and Taxes and even suggested to simply follow the rules of the land ("render unto Caesars what is Caesar's"). Jesus was concerned with men's souls, not their pockets.
Socialism breeds laziness and handouts. Jesus was always an advocate of hard work.
Socialism is about dependence on the gov't. Jesus taught man to be independent and focus on God, even if that meant leaving your mother, father, sister, or brother and that every man stood alone on Judgement Day.
Socialism is about speading the wealth. Jesus is about spreading the Word.
Socialism not only implies "sharing", it also implies ''taking'', perhaps even unwillingly (aka 'theft') from those that have it. Jesus wasn't a thief nor did he espouse forcing any man to do anything his heart was not convicted about. He merely preached and provided examples/rationales as to why certain actions or non actions would be/could be harmful either short term or long term (eternity).
Socialism is essentially about the totalitarian authority of the gov't. Jesus is about the authority of God over all.
Jesus encouraged men not to prioritize their riches over Him b/c at the end the day, you can't take it with you when you die.
Jesus very rarely got involved with Politics, Bog Government, and Taxes and even suggested to simply follow the rules of the land ("render unto Caesars what is Caesar's"). Jesus was concerned with men's souls, not their pockets.
ax1
Legend
Keep in mind, the military doesnt go by the constitution anymore, their masters are the world goverment. They go to the UN and NATO for authority. The military goes to congress merely for ceremonial purposes, but congress cannot tell the military what to do anymore.
This is coming from military top brass telling congress this very recently.
I wouldnt worry about the republicans and dems "divides" what they do behind closed doors is usually shake hands.
ax1
Legend
Just want to say more to this.
Obama is a "democrat" who goes to war without congressional approval, and has signed executive orders to let the military arrest American citizens on American soil and allow to detain permanently without trial or access to lawyer, basically permanently vanish as well as allowing for killing of Americans.
This is under powers of the new National Defense Authorization Act.
Also, Obama recently signed another executive order, the National Defense Resources Preparedness. This Allows the military to seize any Americans private property, control ALL natural resources (including your garden and solar power), and also they basically re-instituted the draft as the act allows the military to take any American and force them to labor for the military (making bullets, bunkers, etc..)
So you see, dems play a good talking game but their policies are Bush/Cheney on Steroids.
America is officially a Military Dictatorship under Obama.
Conagher
Active member
Yes,that is why I find it amusing that man equates a big house,expensive automobiles and a lot of toys as the fruits of leading a righteous life.The scriptures I was taught said that man`s reward lays waiting in Heaven,not on Earth,yet many churches teach greed as a matter of doctrine.
Hard labor does not equivocate to having a lot of money.For the most part,those that work the hardest have always been on the low end of the pay scale.
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Whacked
Well-known member
Help me out here as I don't understand it on that level. Why wouldnt austerity be a good thing? Wouldnt't tightening the belt be wise......All this spending is beyond out of control. Decreased spending and government entitlement programs are killing us.
2013 stands to be ONE SCARY YEAR.
If he lets tax cuts exprie (which Obama certainly will), and then we add Obama's INCREASED capital gains taxes to the mix (he already stated he would implement this) and the economy is going to plummet.
Keep taking money out of the people who create jobs in this country and we are all screwed from the trickle down. Let's not forget - with Obama, the GREEN ENERGY dork, gas prices will continue to soar to unheard of levels as he also refuses to TAP into our own reserves and supplies (Alaska).
We are already on the verge of a double dip recession, as the next few months look grim (the gains are crap and short-lived as analysts are saying that business' forecasts are grim) ...I can't imagine another 4 years of "Obamanation" = Abomination = coincidence?
Rahl
Well-known member
Wish I could multi quote on mobile. Lol
Ax: you are correct about Obamas continuations of warmongering and even worse IMO the expansion of home front militarization. I was speaking more to general philosophy than actual practice. I do believe that we will go to war with Iran in the next 3 years.
Ax: you are correct about Obamas continuations of warmongering and even worse IMO the expansion of home front militarization. I was speaking more to general philosophy than actual practice. I do believe that we will go to war with Iran in the next 3 years.
EasyEJL
Never enough
can you explain the difference between those two? I don't see it honestly.
ax1
Legend
I think he was referring to what their philosphy is supposed to be, which doesnt exist anymore.
Whacked
Well-known member
True True True DAT!
Reps
QUOTE=Conagher;3334367]Yes,that is why I find it amusing that man equates a big house,expensive automobiles and a lot of toys as the fruits of leading a righteous life.The scriptures I was taught said that man`s reward lays waiting in Heaven,not on Earth,yet many churches teach greed as a matter of doctrine.
Hard labor does not equivocate to having a lot of money.For the most part,those that work the hardest have always been on the low end of the pay scale.[/QUOTE]
Reps
QUOTE=Conagher;3334367]Yes,that is why I find it amusing that man equates a big house,expensive automobiles and a lot of toys as the fruits of leading a righteous life.The scriptures I was taught said that man`s reward lays waiting in Heaven,not on Earth,yet many churches teach greed as a matter of doctrine.
Hard labor does not equivocate to having a lot of money.For the most part,those that work the hardest have always been on the low end of the pay scale.[/QUOTE]
Rahl
Well-known member
Whacked said:
As to austerity simply look to Europe. It hasn't worked. They are in worse shape than us and the European union is on the verge of collapse. The only successful economy in Europe right now is Germany and the German citizens are tiring of bailing out the rest of Europe. You think we're mad about bailouts? Imagine if we were spending that money to bail out Mexico. That's the equivalent of what is happening in Europe. Yet for all the austerity Greece is in worse shape than they were 2 years ago and so are Spain and Portugal. Remove the politics and examine the economics. The austerity measures certainly brought down spending but the also crushed revenue. The human psychy plays a part here too as people are paralyzed by fear and stop spending even if they can afford it. That's what happened here in 2008. Long term we NEED to control spending. Short term it would kill us unless those spending cuts came all from over seas operation and there aren't enough of those costs to make a dent.
German is a highly unionized nearly socialist society that is doing quite well right now. Not saying that would work for us but it's simply true for them.
Entitlements cost money but many return more than they cost to the economy. Medicare and social security aside, unemployment and food stamps have a 4:1 return ratio. Locally our state cut mental health spending by 16 million this year. Sounds great. However, statewide programs that were cut have already caused 100's to be intitutionalized rather than housed in programs that the state was subsidizing. Total savings? The cost to institutionalize is nearly triple the existing programs and are funded 100% by taxes. Savings lose. It's easy to over simplify and only look at the savings but you have to measure the cost of those savings to understand whether you've actually saved anything or spent more.
Whacked
Well-known member
EasyEJL
Never enough
still don't see it. The only reason they can remove my rights economically is because they have the military. And on the other side, the military won't be directly used to strip our rights, it still will be the courts and economical stripping of them. the two are so close it doesn't feel like a meaningful difference.
ax1
Legend
Paying? You meant surrender, right slave?
ax1
Legend
OK, I admit it, I dont get it
I imagine you are making a corollary or reference to shared positions at/between these two enterprises?
You can read this, this may help explain.
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Rahl
Well-known member
EasyEJL said:
I wouldn't be so sure the military isn't directly
Used to strip out rights in the future. Predator drones are being sold to law enforcement right now. DHS, DEA, and the IRS raided oakstradam in Oakland CA last week to crush a perfectly legal (under state law) medical marijuana distribution center. Notice DHS was there?
And Easy, as usual in arguing on the surface with you. I agree we are screwed with both. I'm mostly arguing against the "anyone but Obama" crowd. Romney will be no better on the whole. Worse in some ways. Slightly better in others. I do fear he will succumb to pressure to cut too heavily too quickly and kill our flagging Economy. Ill probably be voting libertarian anyway.
Conagher
Active member
Man that is a lot of tax money.I would be pissed,too.That is roughly 2/3 of my yearly earnings.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
ax1
Legend
I wonder how much $866 billion would really be worth in 2020?