Election of 2012....Who ya got?

EasyEJL said:
Even given there are issues that they didn't foresee, their model was based on individual states attempting to fix those things, not an overreaching federal government. And when a state in attempting to fix those intruded on the rights (or created bias against products from) another state, that was the point at which the federal government was supposed to become involved.

The larger the country has become, the more valid that point has become rather than the reverse.
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no doubt it was a states rights issue, and the Pres. for years have taken a greater hold than they should. This is not new or surprising. It has been going on since the earliest founding fathers sat in office. Hell, Jefferson took advantage as well.

Bottom line for me E.....both you and Ax talk about these abuses, and yes there are many abuses, but none have led to to some great catastrophe or tinfoil hat laden event. My point is, these things have gone on for generations, and will continue to do so long after we are all gone. Eventually, long down the line, there will be some sort of rebellion....but nothing will happen for a while People are too complacent with life.
 
AE14 said:
dont worry about the run ons :)

alot of the things you mentioned have been done before....hell Lincoln wiped his a$$ with the constitution, yet no one bats an eye. Again, show me the police state that you live in....
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hmm lemee see, warrantless wiretapping, video cameras all over in public, flying drones with video cameras, attempting to get access to all emails and internet activity without warrant, ability to be considered a terrorist for receiving drugs in the mail (Invalid Link Removed), no fly lists for US citizens, ability to detain someone indefinitely without charging them or giving access to a lawyer, etc. The list is pretty freakin long.
 
AE14 said:
dont worry about the run ons :)

alot of the things you mentioned have been done before....hell Lincoln wiped his a$$ with the constitution, yet no one bats an eye. Again, show me the police state that you live in....
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Ive been doing that in one of my other threads all year, lol but we are the most imprisoned country on the planet (officially at least) so we can start there. We just passed yet another police state bill in the senate yesterday to install 30,000 drones over America, and the police force is continuing to be federalized away from local/state. I can go on and on but thats my lifes work (not srs) in my other thread.

I have to research Lincoln more so I cannot comment, but the amendment of 1865 is something I fully support in regards to abolishment of slavery, unfortunately slavery still exists just in different ways.
 
AE14 said:
no doubt it was a states rights issue, and the Pres. for years have taken a greater hold than they should. This is not new or surprising. It has been going on since the earliest founding fathers sat in office. Hell, Jefferson took advantage as well.

Bottom line for me E.....both you and Ax talk about these abuses, and yes there are many abuses, but none have led to to some great catastrophe or tinfoil hat laden event. My point is, these things have gone on for generations, and will continue to do so long after we are all gone. Eventually, long down the line, there will be some sort of rebellion....but nothing will happen for a while People are too complacent with life.
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oh sure. but just like the socialist dude said, america will never accept a doctrine of socialism, but will quietly accept individual elements of it one at a time until all are in places. Similarly we'd never accept totalitarian rule but as our freedoms are eroded a tiny piece at a time and dependence on government continues to grow (up 8% this year) eventually we'll have a totalitarian regime and just not notice that we do.
 
ax1 said:
Ive been doing that in one of my other threads all year, lol but we are the most imprisoned country on the planet (officially at least) so we can start there. We just passed yet another police state bill in the senate yesterday to install 30,000 drones over America, and the police force is continuing to be federalized away from local/state. I can go on and on but thats my lifes work (not srs) in my other thread.

I have to research Lincoln more so I cannot comment, but the amendment of 1865 is something I fully support in regards to abolishment of slavery, unfortunately slavery still exists just in different ways.
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yes....we have the most people in prison, that does not make a prison state to me. Would I like to reanalyze some laws (mainly drugs) yes, but the fools getting busted know the laws and if they dont, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

I am not talking about the emancipation, which was only written after the South was kicking the Norths a$$. Lincoln needed something to galvanize the movement and pull southern soldiers home. Lincoln didnt give a rats butt about the slaves....there are countless speeches of his advocating sending them all to africa, or not freeing them as long as he could save the union.

I was referring to him completely leveling habeas corpus
 
EasyEJL said:
oh sure. but just like the socialist dude said, america will never accept a doctrine of socialism, but will quietly accept individual elements of it one at a time until all are in places. Similarly we'd never accept totalitarian rule but as our freedoms are eroded a tiny piece at a time and dependence on government continues to grow (up 8% this year) eventually we'll have a totalitarian regime and just not notice that we do.
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do you rally think this will happen? I for one do not
 
ax1 said:
Ive been doing that in one of my other threads all year, lol but we are the most imprisoned country on the planet (officially at least) so we can start there. We just passed yet another police state bill in the senate yesterday to install 30,000 drones over America, and the police force is continuing to be federalized away from local/state. I can go on and on but thats my lifes work (not srs) in my other thread.

I have to research Lincoln more so I cannot comment, but the amendment of 1865 is something I fully support in regards to abolishment of slavery, unfortunately slavery still exists just in different ways.
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Lol you're imprisoned? Dear god man....
 
AE14 said:
yes....we have the most people in prison, that does not make a prison state to me. Would I like to reanalyze some laws (mainly drugs) yes, but the fools getting busted know the laws and if they dont, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

I am not talking about the emancipation, which was only written after the South was kicking the Norths a$$. Lincoln needed something to galvanize the movement and pull southern soldiers home. Lincoln didnt give a rats butt about the slaves....there are countless speeches of his advocating sending them all to africa, or not freeing them as long as he could save the union.

I was referring to him completely leveling habeas corpus
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yeah, even more comically, the confederates didn't care about slaves either. The issue was the removal of states rights more than slavery. they would probably have accepted a constitutional amendment giving slaves full rights if all the rest of what went along with it wasn't a part of what lincoln wanted.

But those damn liberals running our education system rewrote it to suit themselves ;)
 
EasyEJL said:
hmm lemee see, warrantless wiretapping, video cameras all over in public, flying drones with video cameras, attempting to get access to all emails and internet activity without warrant, ability to be considered a terrorist for receiving drugs in the mail (Invalid Link Removed), no fly lists for US citizens, ability to detain someone indefinitely without charging them or giving access to a lawyer, etc. The list is pretty freakin long.
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take a look at the abuses of the 1860's. again a long list....
 
EasyEJL said:
yeah, even more comically, the confederates didn't care about slaves either. The issue was the removal of states rights more than slavery. they would probably have accepted a constitutional amendment giving slaves full rights if all the rest of what went along with it wasn't a part of what lincoln wanted.

But those damn liberals running our education system rewrote it to suit themselves ;)
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I think you are being a little overly optimistic. There was a strong sentiment in the south that was anti-slave and wanted to be left alone (as a states rights issue). The two issues are mutually dependent. It is totally visible through the response to reconstruction.
 
AE14 said:
do you rally think this will happen? I for one do not
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well, as I said before I've noticed the difference in my own freedoms (be it even just slight) over the last 30 years. Its been in a constant trend in that direction, with the addition of the revolving door between government officials leaving for private industry positions they had jurisdiction over, etc. I'm not saying that outcome is likely to happen in my lifetime, but I'm pretty sure it will eventually. If you in general asked someone whether water could ever dig a hole a mile deep and 277 miles long they'd think you were crazy, but given enough time the grand canyon was created.

Even something as stupid as portions of the health care bill. Now an employer can no longer choose to offer a cheap low priced catastrophic only coverage health insurance. There is freedom lost.

The one in five Americans who now rely on federal assistance costs the government $2.5 billion annually, and the average recipient collects $32,748 in benefits, about $300 more than the country’s average disposable personal income. About 70 percent of the federal budget goes to individual assistance and nearly half of the population does not pay a dime in income taxes.
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The more dependent people are on the government for their day to day life and standard of living, the less likely they are to rise up even if things become more of a police state. You get that government dependency number to double and the government could get away with anything. Note that the rate of government dependency is up 23% since obama started. Not claiming that as fault, just mentioning it is up by that much in the last 3ish years.
 
southpaw23 said:
Lol you're imprisoned? Dear god man....
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Yes, I have pay tax on the fruits on my labor, so I spend 25% of my labor life as a slave to the government.

Also my protections under the bill of rights no longer exist. As of New Years Eve I can be arrested, detained, with no right to lawyer or fair trial for an indefinite amount of time, that to me is a totalitarian police state.

Ultimately my politics arent primarily of personal concern and I feel its my duty as a citizen to be politically involved in any way I can (not just posting on a board.) I cannot feel good about myself by not being involved with my country in one way or another, its a part of my way forcing myself to contribute that adds to my daily contentment.
 
AE14 said:
I think you are being a little overly optimistic. There was a strong sentiment in the south that was anti-slave and wanted to be left alone (as a states rights issue). The two issues are mutually dependent. It is totally visible through the response to reconstruction.
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yeah, probably I am. still it wasn't solely the slavery issue, as the confederacy was willing to allow non-slave holding states to join.
 
AE14 said:
do you rally think this will happen? I for one do not
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Considering how far we've already transformed from a natural rights country to a socialist nation, yes. It's not something that happens all at once. Carl Marx got it right when he said socialism was the post-capitalism stage and pre-communist stage of political philosophy. He made us a target in the beginning and since has slowly transformed us, election by election, decade by decade, into Carl Marx society...
 
EasyEJL said:
yeah, probably I am. still it wasn't solely the slavery issue, as the confederacy was willing to allow non-slave holding states to join.
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Ron Paul stated one that the Civil War shouldnt even have been fought. It would have been far, far more cost effective with far less suffering if the government would have just bought the slaves and just freed them. He used a model that they used in Britain (?? forgot exactly where or when) where they did in fact end slavery by buying and freeing them.
 
ax1 said:
Yes, I have pay tax on the fruits on my labor, so I spend 25% of my labor life as a slave to the government.

Also my protections under the bill of rights no longer exist. As of New Years Eve I can be arrested, detained, with no right to lawyer or fair trial for an indefinite amount of time, that to me is a totalitarian police state.

Ultimately my politics arent primarily of personal concern and I feel its my duty as a citizen to be politically involved in any way I can (not just posting on a board.) I cannot feel good about myself by not being involved with my country in one way or another, its a part of my way forcing myself to contribute that adds to my daily contentment.
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you will also be paying for contraceptives
 
fueledpassion said:
Considering how far we've already transformed from a natural rights country to a socialist nation, yes. It's not something that happens all at once. Carl Marx got it right when he said socialism was the post-capitalism stage and pre-communist stage of political philosophy. He made us a target in the beginning and since has slowly transformed us, election by election, decade by decade, into Carl Marx society...
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Its really a wall street society, you really have to look into Marx's associations and financing, which came from wall street its ultimatly a propaganda piece to make a few at the top money.

Im not against socialist ideas, I just dont trust a government that consistently lies over and over again to implement them. Then there is an issue that in order for socialism to work you have to forcefully take something from somebody else in order to give it to someone else which is not the idea of a free man, not necessarily fair at all.
 
Liberal Checklist

1) Received a university level education.
2) Never once received any form of entitlements.
3) Self reliant as a person who immigrated to this country as a child, eventually went on to become a citizen and earn an education, with an area of expertise.
4) Has not seen any of my freedoms taken away, or erode, be it in the form of new laws or a "policed" state.
5) Believes everyone should have a right to quality health care.
6) Believe that if you outsource labor you should not receive any type of tax benefit.
7) If you invest most of your monies into foreign markets, then you should not receive the benefits of cap gains. (since you're not reinvesting in US markets)
8) Believe higher education is required in order to govern a state and/or federally. In other words not two years at community college.
9) Believes that if you lead by way of a "social agenda", example attempting to defund planned parenthood, then you should have limited power/influence.

Checklist is much longer, but proudly and unabashedly sticking to it.
 
The deal with freedom and healthcare is this: we require you to have healthcare through various means because of one pre-existing thing.

No matter if you have insurance or not, you WILL be treated in an emergency room. Who pays? The government. So the government says that as long as the government lacks the freedom to let you die, they are going to take away your freedom to suckle off of them for makeshift healthcare. Most people are in favor of treating anyone that is dying without checking for insurance, so the contrary evil is that the government wants to cover their ass for that cost.
 
That's an oversimplified approach to healthcare, if you're a diabetic, sure you can walk into a hospital and get treated for a specific complication, but it doesn't take into account, the ongoing patient care and prescription costs that are associated with these types of conditions.
 
D3Baseball said:
No matter if you have insurance or not, you WILL be treated in an emergency room. Who pays? The government.
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from what I recall, that isn't true. the hospital eats the expense and charges the rates to people who do pay to make up for the losses. hence the $4 asprin
 
carpee said:
you will also be paying for contraceptives
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Oh great...reminds me I need to get onto my wifes insurance plan from her job soon, or the newly created IRS expansion (16,000 fully armed and combat trained) will be knocking on my door.

Just another way of being in a prison state forced to buy products.

D3Baseball said:
The deal with freedom and healthcare is this: we require you to have healthcare through various means because of one pre-existing thing.

No matter if you have insurance or not, you WILL be treated in an emergency room. Who pays? The government. So the government says that as long as the government lacks the freedom to let you die, they are going to take away your freedom to suckle off of them for makeshift healthcare. Most people are in favor of treating anyone that is dying without checking for insurance, so the contrary evil is that the government wants to cover their ass for that cost.
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The whole system is messed up, its to complicated for a simple post for sure. There used to be a day where you can go to certain doctors or a hospital for no money or just pay a small amount and they didnt turn you down. Of course, if you have cancer they wouldnt be able to do anything about it financially, but they never have in the emergency room either (did they?.)

Government is progressively involved with medicine we will all see costs go up, just like it has with education.

EasyEJL said:
from what I recall, that isn't true. the hospital eats the expense and charges the rates to people who do pay to make up for the losses. hence the $4 asprin
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Some hospitals have been caught simply getting patients in a taxi and having them sent to another hospital even if it seems to be an emergency. They will just be dropped off on the ground.
 
southpaw23 said:
Difference is some are flexible with respect to their positions, while others are nothing more than mere ideologues.
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Really? Oh you mean the ones you support you feel that way about. I don't feel that way even about the ones I support. I haven't seen any politicians who aren't ideologues probably ever, at the very least not for the last few decades.
 
EasyEJL said:
Really? Oh you mean the ones you support you feel that way about. I don't feel that way even about the ones I support. I haven't seen any politicians who aren't ideologues probably ever, at the very least not for the last few decades.
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Cantor, Boehner, Brewer, Gingrich (even worse) just to name a few are all prominent ideologues. They have a position and their sticking to it, no matter how outdated or antiquated those positions may be.
 
southpaw23 said:
Cantor, Boehner, Brewer, Gingrich (even worse) just to name a few are all prominent ideologues. They have a position and their sticking to it, no matter how outdated or antiquated those positions may be.
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Obama, Pelosie, Reid and Waxman are all just as much ideologues, but since you agree with their ideology, you don't see it.
 
southpaw23 said:
Liberal Checklist

1) Received a university level education.
2) Never once received any form of entitlements.
3) Self reliant as a person who immigrated to this country as a child, eventually went on to become a citizen and earn an education, with an area of expertise.
4) Has not seen any of my freedoms taken away, or erode, be it in the form of new laws or a "policed" state.
5) Believes everyone should have a right to quality health care.
6) Believe that if you outsource labor you should not receive any type of tax benefit.
7) If you invest most of your monies into foreign markets, then you should not receive the benefits of cap gains. (since you're not reinvesting in US markets)
8) Believe higher education is required in order to govern a state and/or federally. In other words not two years at community college.
9) Believes that if you lead by way of a "social agenda", example attempting to defund planned parenthood, then you should have limited power/influence.

Checklist is much longer, but proudly and unabashedly sticking to it.
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southpaw23 said:
Cantor, Boehner, Brewer, Gingrich (even worse) just to name a few are all prominent ideologues. They have a position and their sticking to it, no matter how outdated or antiquated those positions may be.
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EasyEJL said:
Obama, Pelosie, Reid and Waxman are all just as much ideologues, but since you agree with their ideology, you don't see it.
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anyone that actually believes this is a "party" issue is deluding themselves.
 
The only ideology I see in >90% majority of these politicians is corporitism.

There is no difference between Obama, Boehner, Pelosie, or Gingrich.

Welcome to the land of the Republicrats where we create our own competition to monopolize control and give the illusion of choice.
 
AE14 said:
anyone that actually believes this is a "party" issue is deluding themselves.
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It's an ideology issue that happens to be directly tied into to both political parties, that's not delusional, that's a fact. In any event, I promised myself I wouldn't enter back into one of these threads and I was lured back in, by the ever factual treasure trove otherwise known as a youtube video. I've said my peace and I stand by it. Peace to all.
 
southpaw23 said:
It's an ideology issue that happens to be directly tied into to both political parties, that's not delusional, that's a fact. In any event, I promised myself I wouldn't enter back into one of these threads and I was lured back in, by the ever factual treasure trove otherwise known as a youtube video. I've said my peace and I stand by it. Peace to all.
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It's not more one party vs another. They are both the same. The are both for more spending and big government.
 
southpaw23 said:
It's an ideology issue that happens to be directly tied into to both political parties, that's not delusional, that's a fact. In any event, I promised myself I wouldn't enter back into one of these threads and I was lured back in, by the ever factual treasure trove otherwise known as a youtube video. I've said my peace and I stand by it. Peace to all.
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Everything is tied to the republicrats. Just follow the money and you see they are all founded by the same people and you will realize they are 1 single party, its called a "Duopoly" where you just create your own competition and give people the illusion of choice and establishing permanent powers.

A good specific example to investigate is the financing of both Romney and Obama. When you look at things they are a perfect carbon copy of eachother although nonsense labeling and branding they are marketed by the financers as being totally different. Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse Group, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, USB, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Citigroup, Barclays, Bain Capital just to name a few. This is just a tip of the iceberg. You can call Liberal Obama George Bush's 3rd term and Conservative Romney (assuming he wins) George Bush's 4th term and nothing will ever change.
 
ax1 said:
Everything is tied to the republicrats. Just follow the money and you see they are all founded by the same people and you will realize they are 1 single party, its called a "Duopoly" where you just create your own competition and give people the illusion of choice and establishing permanent powers.

A good specific example to investigate is the financing of both Romney and Obama. When you look at things they are a perfect carbon copy of eachother although nonsense labeling and branding they are marketed by the financers as being totally different. Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse Group, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, USB, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Citigroup, Barclays, Bain Capital just to name a few. This is just a tip of the iceberg. You can call Liberal Obama George Bush's 3rd term and Conservative Romney (assuming he wins) George Bush's 4th term and nothing will ever change.
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I think when it comes to election day, i'm going to stand outside the local polling place with a sign and chanting "no more years", but I doubt anyone will get it.
 
EasyEJL said:
I think when it comes to election day, i'm going to stand outside the local polling place with a sign and chanting "no more years", but I doubt anyone will get it.
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:rofl:
 
I always find it funny that i'm pegged as a hardcore catholic or minimally christian republican in (outside of here) online conversations. I'm not. I'm a fiscally conservative non-religious constitutionalist. George Bush sucked, just slightly less than Gore or Kerry would have. McCain would have sucked less than Obama. But they still would have sucked. Social issues? I could give a crap less, let people live their own lives the way they want with minimal government involvement. I'm personally willing to fund abortions in the inner city, but don't think government should, or that insurance companies should be forced to provide it (or contraceptives). Let the damn insurance company decide. But when I voice the view of "the obamacare provision that forces religious based organizations or any insurance company at all to provide birth control" somehow everyone "knows" i'm an antiabortion catholic republican.

Funny world it is.
 
EasyEJL said:
I think when it comes to election day, i'm going to stand outside the local polling place with a sign and chanting "no more years", but I doubt anyone will get it.
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Nobody is going to fall for the education you had primarily received from the treasure trove of youtube video's you have been watching on your Amazon Kindle.

The Wall Street Journal reported clinical study that people who hold signs are suffer from "Bipolar Disorder" and are usually homeless with no job and fall victim to conspiracy theories. Also, in most cases they are just counter revolutionary, anti-American and often chew on beef jerky.
 
EasyEJL said:
I always find it funny that i'm pegged as a hardcore catholic or minimally christian republican in (outside of here) online conversations. I'm not. I'm a fiscally conservative non-religious constitutionalist. George Bush sucked, just slightly less than Gore or Kerry would have. McCain would have sucked less than Obama. But they still would have sucked. Social issues? I could give a crap less, let people live their own lives the way they want with minimal government involvement. I'm personally willing to fund abortions in the inner city, but don't think government should, or that insurance companies should be forced to provide it (or contraceptives). Let the damn insurance company decide. But when I voice the view of "the obamacare provision that forces religious based organizations or any insurance company at all to provide birth control" somehow everyone "knows" i'm an antiabortion catholic republican.

Funny world it is.
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Getting back to srs now, lol

Im personally tired with this whole idea of labeling everybody. Personally, Im not anything or want to be anything, I just seek knowledge and have personal, and flexible opinions on things.

It seems people like to categorize everybody and society is whole class of races outside of just black and white. This leads to blind support when it comes to candidates, such as liberals sticking with liberals even though they turned out to be more evil than George Bush (Obama for example).
 
ax1 said:
Getting back to srs now, lol

Im personally tired with this whole idea of labeling everybody. Personally, Im not anything or want to be anything, I just seek knowledge and have personal, and flexible opinions on things.

It seems people like to categorize everybody and society is whole class of races outside of just black and white. This leads to blind support when it comes to candidates, such as liberals sticking with liberals even though they turned out to be more evil than George Bush (Obama for example).
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Yeah I'm right there with you and Easy. My point-of-view has been developed purely on education and research. My parents didn't influence me, heck, my mother was asking me the other day who she should support in the race lol...kinda scary that my opinion could dictate her allegiance but the sad fact is many, many people are just the same. They leave it up to others to decide for them..

And as far a religious beliefs go, I've not once in my life found an instance where my religious beliefs supported something that is controversial to the left. My religion supports freedom to choose for oneself, and my education also supports this. How is freedom ever a bad thing? Government really just needs to leave these things up to us -- not some super committee or panel of judges.
 
there's a great lesson here.

around the time of valley forge, George Washington started allowing slaves to be enlisted in return for their freedom.

he embraced those who embraced the ideals of liberty and were willing to fight for it, regardless of race, religion, profession, or even nationality.
 
ax1 said:
Getting back to srs now, lol

Im personally tired with this whole idea of labeling everybody. Personally, Im not anything or want to be anything, I just seek knowledge and have personal, and flexible opinions on things.

It seems people like to categorize everybody and society is whole class of races outside of just black and white. This leads to blind support when it comes to candidates, such as liberals sticking with liberals even though they turned out to be more evil than George Bush (Obama for example).
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I am with you....the labels are silly and entirely inaccurate. TO most people, they assume that I am left leaning as a result of my profession. However, I lean more "right" fiscally, and that is always my biggest concern. However, when you compare me to Santorum on the Social scale, I couldnt be more far left....heck Hitler my be more liberal :lol:
 
Conagher said:
Questionaire that determines your ideal candidate.


Invalid Link Removed
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This is funny because we all know most if not all politicians are full of it once power is established. I went along with it for fun though and this is what came up for me,

1. Ideal Theoretical Candidate "This candidate adamantly endorses all of your political views. The problem is that they may not exist, unless you write-in your own name on your ballot."
2. Ron Paul


but the funny part is this made my list

5. Barrack Obama, 10. Rick Perry, 11. Newt, 14. Romney wtf ???

How the hell does Obama make my list or is on the same list is Ron Paul only 4 slots away? Even in the top million along with Newt, Satanoram, Cain, Trump, etc...lol Id rather die than vote for just about everybody on the list.
 
Whats interesting is that even after these closed elections are done with, Ron Paul can still win the states delegates.

Maddow: Does Ron Paul’s Delegate ‘Sneak Attack’ Strategy Undermine Voter Will?


Even with one hand tied behind his back (media blackout), Ron Paul damned for trying to beat them by their own party rules.

Ron Paul advisor Doug Wead on The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC 2/10/12

[video=youtube;9x28_I9oIVg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9x28_I9oIVg#![/video]
 
ax1 said:
This is funny because we all know most if not all politicians are full of it once power is established. I went along with it for fun though and this is what came up for me,

1. Ideal Theoretical Candidate "This candidate adamantly endorses all of your political views. The problem is that they may not exist, unless you write-in your own name on your ballot."
2. Ron Paul


but the funny part is this made my list

5. Barrack Obama, 10. Rick Perry, 11. Newt, 14. Romney wtf ???

How the hell does Obama make my list or is on the same list is Ron Paul only 4 slots away? Even in the top million along with Newt, Satanoram, Cain, Trump, etc...lol Id rather die than vote for just about everybody on the list.
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This is how it ranked me 1-10
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Ideal Theoretical Candidate [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](100%) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]2. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Barack Obama* [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](58%) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]3. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Joseph Biden [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](58%) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]4. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Kent Mesplay* [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](50%) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]5. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Jill Stein* [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](42%) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]6. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Newt Gingrich* [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](42%) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]7. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Rick Santorum* [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](41%) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]8. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Mitt Romney* [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](38%) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]9. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Ron Paul* [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica](37%) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]10. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Robby Wells[/FONT]

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Funny enough....
1. Romney
2. Obama
3. Newt

Paul all the way at 7.

The funny part was Romney was only approximately 53%.
 
1. Ideal Theoretical Candidate (100%)

2. Ron Paul* (77%)

3. Rick Santorum* (57%)

4. Newt Gingrich* (53%)

5. Gary Johnson* (53%)

6. Robby Wells* (53%)

7. Barack Obama* (49%)

8. Mitt Romney* (47%)

9. Buddy Roemer* (38%)

10. Joseph Biden (37%)

11. Kent Mesplay* (36%)

12. Stewart Alexander* (36%)

13. Tim Pawlenty (34%)

14. Michele Bachmann (34%)

15. Rick Perry (33%)

16. Rocky Anderson* (32%)

17. Herman Cain (31%)

18. Jon Huntsman (28%)

19. Jill Stein* (24%)

20. Michael Bloomberg (20%)

21. Donald Trump (16%)
 
Why the hell is Donald Trump even a part of this? Why dont they throw in Bill Gates too while they are at it.
 
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