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Dosing Guide for Popular PH/DS

MistrJay said:
So you mean my bulletproof diet of fruit by the foot, poptarts and hot pockets won't be good on cycle? Lol.
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I think you'll be fine. Just remember to add lots of fried bananas, and you'll look like piana in no time:-)
 
oyvind said:
I think you'll be fine. Just remember to add lots of fried bananas, and you'll look like piana in no time:-)
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Sweet that was my goal "so big I can't wipe my own a*s".
 
Wallet55 said:
I found Dienolone acetate on sale on a website. Considering it's a close relative to trenavar, would the dosage/effects be close to be the same? I'd put the powder in a carrier and run it transdermal.
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I've read a few threads about it but I have no real knowledge about it. Perhaps brofessorx knows a thing or two? I've seen dosing relatively close to Trenavar/Trendione. 100 mg looks to be common. You plan on running test as well?
 
MistrJay said:
I've thought about running my first PH cycle as a 1/4/Epi-Andro cycle here in a few months once I get my diet under control and training all squared away. Is halodrol or DMZ good to replace any of them or just stick with the andros for a first cycle?

I will be adding in ar1macare pro for on cycle support.
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Halo is generally suitable for beginners. However, with the availability and improved value of the andros I would choose them. Halo would be more gains but the andros will be less sides. They will give significant gains if everything else is on point. OL UK runs crazy sales often so they can be had for a decent price with no worries about being legit. However, if you can find legit Halo-100 or other good designers that are legit, then snatch em up for future runs!
 
Jebrook said:
Prohormone/Designer Steroid Info


Methylepitiostanol (Epistane)
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol*
Recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 30-45 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Low-Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: ~6 hrs
DHT Based
Typical Uses: Lean bulk, cutting, recomp
Note: Epistane has become notorious for causing rebound gyno in some users. The best preventative measure is to run a suicidal AI after PCT. This compound is very dry and commonly causes joint issues. Thus, it is recommended to use joint support or stack it with an aromatizing compound. Epistane has oft been labeled as anti-estrogenic and offering some protection against gyno whilst on-cycle. However, this is debatable and has no truly substantiating proof to date. Due to it's relatively mild side effects and considerable strength, Epistane is a wildly popular compound for beginners and veterans alike, and is very versatile.

Halodrol
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol
Recommended for beginners
Recommended Dosage: 50-75mgs a day-experienced users can dose 100-150mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle
Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Low-Moderate (Dose Dependant)
Estrogen Conversion: NO
Half-life: 12-16 hrs
Test based
Typical Uses: Bulking, lean bulking, recomp
Note: Halo considered to be a prohormone to Turinabol. This means a portion of this compound will convert into Turinabol. The amount of conversion in Turinabol can only be speculated, but it is believed to be very low(5-8%). The inactive metabolites of Halodrol have very anabolic properties of their own, so even without conversion, this drug is very powerful in it's own right. Halo is also a very popular beginning compound due to it's relatively low side effects, respectable potency, and versatility.

Trenavar/Trendione
Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-Dione
Not recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 60-90 mg daily-many users commonly take 120mg or more daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: No
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6-8 hours
19-Nortestosterone (Nandrolone derivative)
Typical Uses: Stacking, lean bulking, cutting, recomp
Note:Trenavar is a prohormone to the veterinary steroid Trenbolone. Some experts have speculated the conversion into Trenbolone to be 20-30%. Note that the rate at which prohormones convert to the target hormones are only estimations and widely debated. The remainder is a powerful and active compound. Tren is probably one of the harshest of the non-methyls ph's and carries many similar sides to real Trenbolone and also has high likelihood of elevating prolactin levels, thus a cycle support and prolactin control are recommended. Tren sweats, sleeplessness, and blood pressure and lipid level changes are quite common with this pro-hormone.

Methyldiazarinol(Triumph)
3,3-azo-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 30-60mg daily-advanced users may go as high as 100 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: cutting, recomp, lean bulk
Note:


Dimethandrostenol(Dimethadrol)
2,17α-dimethyl-17β-hydroxy-5α-androst-2-ene
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 15-30 mg daily-some users report double that dosage
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6-8 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, Lean bulking, recomp
Note:


Methylstenbolone (M-Sten)
2,17α-dimethyl-5α-androsta-1-en-17β-ol-3-one
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 10-20 mg, although many users commonly take 30 mg or more a day
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 6 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, Lean bulking, recomp
Note:


Dymethazine (DMZ)
2,17-dimethyl-5-androstan-17-ol-3,3'-azine
Many beginners use this but it is not a common recommendation
Recommended dosage: 30-45 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 12-16 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, lean bulking, recomp
Note:


Methyl 1 AD(Alpha 1 or M1AD)
methyl-1-Etiocholenolol-Epietiocholanolone or 17-methyl-1-androstenediol
Not suitable for beginners
Recommended Dosage: 20-40 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 3-4 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate-High(Dosage and user dependant)
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: 5-6 hrs
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength
Note: Like other Diol compounds, M1 Alpha has the possibility to convert in an undetermined amount to Methyl-1-Testosterone but is also an active steroid on it's own.

Methyldrostanalone (Superdrol)
17β-Hydroxy-2α,17α-dimethyl-5α-androstane-3-one
Advanced users only
Recommended Dosage: 10-20 mg daily- some users will attempt 30-40 mg daily
Average cycle length: 2-4 weeks max
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: High
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: ~8 hr
DHT based
Typical Uses: Bulking, lean bulking, strength
Note: SD is very liver toxic and heavy on sides like blood pressure, lipids, etc. A very comprehensive cycle support regimen and TUDCA are highly recommended. This is widely considered one of the harshest and most potent steroids of all. Never use Superdrol as a first cycle. Use is only recommended after completing at least 3 successful methylated cycles.

Methoxygonadiene(Max LMG)
13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)dien-17-one
Recommended Dosage: 50-120mgs a day
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: NO
Toxicity Level: Low
Estrogen conversion: NO *This has been widely debated
Half-life: 48-72 hrs
19-Nor derivative
Typical Uses: Stacking, bulking
Note: Because of the progestational effects, users should avoid stacking this compound with other gyno aggravating compounds. Max LMG can aromatize to estrogen in small amounts, however not to any significant degree, therefore an aromatase inhibitor would provide little protection against this compound's side-effects. Prolactin support is recommended.

Trestolone(MENT)
17β-hydroxy-7α-methylestr-4-en-3-one
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 50-100mg a day-many users experienced users take 150 mg or more daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 8-12 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Low-(Dose Dependant)
Estrogen Conversion: High(This is somewhat dosage and user dependent
Half-life: 2-4 hrs (depends on oral or transdermal administration)
19-Nor derivative
Typical Uses: Stacking, Test base, bulking, lean bulking
Note: This compound makes a great test base for methylated cycles. At lower doses(50-75) conversion to methyl estrogen is low but at 100 mg and higher an AI becomes necessary. Also important to note is that the extremely short half life of Trest requires frequent dosing to maintain stable levels of this anabolic in the bloodstream.

Hexadrone
6a-chloro-androst-4-en-17b-ol-3-one
Recommended for beginners
Recommended dosage: 50-150mgs a day Solo runs can reach 200mgs
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: No
Toxicity Level: Low
Estrogen Conversion: NO (Anti Estrogenic)
Half-life: 6 hrs
Typical Uses: Stacking, lean bulking, cutting, recomp

Furaza
5a-androstanol[2,3]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol
Recommended dosage: 250-350 mg a day stacked. Solo runs can reach 5-600 mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: No
Toxicity Level: Low
Estrogen Conversion: NO (Anti Estrogenic)
Half-life: 2-4 hrs depending upon administration
DHT based
Typical Uses: Stacking, recomp, cutting

M1 4ADD
17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3,17diol
Not recommended for beginners
Recommended Dosage: 30-100mgs a day-some dose as high as 150mg daily
Average Cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate-High(Dosage and user dependent)
Estrogen Conversion: Yes-Low to Moderate (dose dependent)
Half-life: 4-5 hrs
Test based
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength
Note: This is a prohormone to the steroid Dianabol. Conversion is estimated around 15% as well as conversion into dihydroboldenone. Thus sharing characteristics of both steroids. This is a "wet" compound, thus estrogen side effects should be expected. AI and plenty of cycle support are recommended.

Promagnon (P-Mag)
4-chloro-17α-methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17β-diol
Okay for beginners
Recommended dosage: 75-125 mg
Average cycle Length: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Length: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity Level: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half Life: 12 hrs
Typically used for: Bulking, lean bulking, and recomp

Desoxymethytestosterone (Pheraplex)
17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol
Not for beginners
Recommended dosage: 40-60 mg daily
Avg Cycle Duration: 4 weeks
Advanced Cycle Duration: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity:
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life:~9 hrs
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength
Note: DMT does not convert to estrogen, yet gyno and other estrogen related sides can be somewhat common due to it's low androgenic activity.

M1T
(5a, 17b)-17-Hydroxy-17-methylandrost-1-en-3-one
Advanced Users Only
Recommended dosage: 10-20 mg daily.
Avg Cycle Duration: 2-3 weeks
Advanced Cycle Duration: 3-6 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity: High
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half-life: Estimated at 16 hrs or more
Typical Uses: Bulking, strength

Methyl DHT Oxime(The One)
Nomenclature: 17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol-3-hydroxyimine
Okay for beginners
Recommended dosage: 75-125 mg daily
Average Cycle Duration: 4-6 weeks
Advanced Cycle Duration: 6-8 weeks
Methylated: Yes
Toxicity: Moderate
Estrogen Conversion: No
Half life:
Typical Uses: Lean bulking, cutting, and recomp

*The chemical names listed under nomenclature often vary for many compounds but are similiar. I simply put the most common names I've seen.

*To see the list of what is now banned refer to post #154 of this thread.

Advice for Beginners:
-It is recommended to begin cycling with one mild compound at an appropriate dosage. Be patient. You will need experience and longevity to achieve your physique goals, whatever they may be.
- It is best to begin with a single non-methylated compound and eventually progress to stronger methylated compounds and even stacking.
-Too often, new users are hungry for gains and want to jump into stacked cycles or use high risk compounds like Superdrol, for instance.
-It is very important to READ everything you can find about these drugs. And then reread it over and over until you genuinely understand how these compounds affect your body. I'm not referring to the gains they produce but the mechanisms of action they undergo within the body and all possible side effects.
-And last but not least, if you are not at least 21, you are not at an age to use these drugs without running a high risk of irreversible long term damage to your endocrine system and many other related health problems. It is imperative that these compounds only be used by individuals with fully matured endocrine systems. Ideally this means males in their mid twenties or later.

Stacking Guidelines:
-Never stack multiple compounds for a first cycle. This increases the risks and likelihood of adverse side effects and obscures what drug causes which side effect.
- If stacking, it is best two have prior experience with at least one of the two compounds, if not both. For a first stacked cycle, two non-methyls would be a good choice (example: 1 and 4 andro). Then a methyl and a non-methyl(preferably not a 19-Nor derivative). After that, a methyl + a 19 Nor derivative. And finally, two methylated compounds stacked. Stacking more than two methyls is not adviseable and adds serious risk to an already high-risk cycle. All advanced compounds and cycles should only be attempted after running 3+ successful cycles.
-Adequate cycle support and a proper PCT are the keys to successful cycling and minimizing the risks. Always use additional support with methylated compounds.
-Always have support and ancillaries at hand before starting a cycle.
-Choosing the right compounds to stack is also very important. A few examples:
-It is not advisable to stack 2 19-Nor derivatives for example, due to high risk of prolactin and methyl estrogen related sides. It can be done successfully though with the right support plan.

-Another potential pitfall to avoid is stacking two highly androgenic compounds(DHT derivatives for example). This would be very taxing on the hairline, prostate, and several other sides.

Check out these links for additional info on cycle support and proper PCT protocols:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/276620-post-cycle-therapy.html

Cycle Support FAQ-Coming Soon

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http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/270011-sarms-mk-gw.html
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Nice write-up. I will use this for beginners who ask. Thanks
 
Damn had to quote that whole long ass post huh?
Make me scroll down far as hell? Ok I see how it is
 
Jebrook said:
I've read a few threads about it but I have no real knowledge about it. Perhaps brofessorx knows a thing or two? I've seen dosing relatively close to Trenavar/Trendione. 100 mg looks to be common. You plan on running test as well?
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Dosing is pretty similar. You are correct
 
Jebrook said:
I've read a few threads about it but I have no real knowledge about it. Perhaps brofessorx knows a thing or two? I've seen dosing relatively close to Trenavar/Trendione. 100 mg looks to be common. You plan on running test as well?
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I was thinking about adding a test base like 4-andro/epiandro, would that be enough?
 
M1,4ADD dosage

Hi
The recommended dosage of Dianabol is 20-50mg
But If you are doing M1,4ADD at 120mg and conversion rate to Dianabol is around 15-20%, that means 24 mg of Dianabol.
Is M1,4ADD so active by its own so 120 mg can be compared to 50 mg of Dianabol or is it possible to raise the dosage without to much sides?
 
procore said:
M1,4ADD dosage

Hi
The recommended dosage of Dianabol is 20-50mg
But If you are doing M1,4ADD at 120mg and conversion rate to Dianabol is around 15-20%, that means 24 mg of Dianabol.
Is M1,4ADD so active by its own so 120 mg can be compared to 50 mg of Dianabol or is it possible to raise the dosage without to much sides?
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Your conversion rates are just guesses.

Start at 60-90 mg of m14add there is zero need to go that high (over 120)with m1,4ad
 
procore said:
M1,4ADD dosage

Hi
The recommended dosage of Dianabol is 20-50mg
But If you are doing M1,4ADD at 120mg and conversion rate to Dianabol is around 15-20%, that means 24 mg of Dianabol.
Is M1,4ADD so active by its own so 120 mg can be compared to 50 mg of Dianabol or is it possible to raise the dosage without to much sides?
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That 15% figure is only an guesstimation. Nobody knows exactly plus it could be slightly different for different people. The 120mg recommendation comes from the majority of information I've seen about this compound. Also, that is specifically for the hardcore peeps that have used this before. I wouldn't start at that. It is claimed to have some androgenic activity before conversion to Dbol but it isn't considered to be particularly strong before the conversion from my research. I wouldn't try to go over 120mg because of the methylation factor and other sides.
 
I haven't used m1,4ad that was out before it was banned.
But cel's was for most best at 90mg with advanced users going for 120mg.
I'd say stay at the 60-90mg range, and stack it with something like dzine at 30mg.

That combo would be a friggin powerhouse for size and strength
 
I have found some Halo-100 from OL and was wondering if a cycle of Andro1&4 w/ Halo would be alright or stick with Epi-Andro and then do Halo on the next one?
 
Jebrook said:
First cycle?
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First cycle of PH/DS's yeah. Did a cycle of SARMS a year ago.

Edit: I know SARMS aren't PH's, I didn't know if that would change anything.
 
Just started my dimethadrol cycle with an m1t kicker, ready for the gainz!
 
Anybody have any input on a super dmz 2.0 and trenavar stack?

Thinking about running this. Keeping trenavar at 120mgs daily. Super dmz 2.0 at 2 caps daily
 
Yep. Ran tren multiple times. I respond pretty well and experience zero/low sides

I am really contemplating just using sd2.0 pre workout
 
Mrbolt84 said:
Yep. Ran tren multiple times. I respond pretty well and experience zero/low sides

I am really contemplating just using sd2.0 pre workout
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If you're going to run it then split dose 2 caps ed. It's already horribly dosed and imo 1 cap pwo would be a waste.
 
Mrbolt84 said:
No problem really.
Ever encountered fake?

I found 2 bottles of tvar for 90 shipped
Not bad imo
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I got same deal like u , I asked the retailer straight of its bunk they were up front with me and said it's legit
I couldn't find ol tr3n so I got 2 bottles of brawn nutrition tren.
 
hamdysayed said:
I got same deal like u , I asked the retailer straight of its bunk they were up front with me and said it's legit
I couldn't find ol tr3n so I got 2 bottles of brawn nutrition tren.
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Awesomeness I'm excited. I really enjoy tvar.
I use to run it super high dosage. 180mgs towards the end of a 8 week cycle

Now it's a little expensive and harder to get a hold of...so im thinking 120 mgs for 6 weeks
 
Mrbolt84 said:
Awesomeness I'm excited. I really enjoy tvar.
I use to run it super high dosage. 180mgs towards the end of a 8 week cycle

Now it's a little expensive and harder to get a hold of...so im thinking 120 mgs for 6 weeks
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Damn 180? How's the sides ?
also what brand u get?
 
hamdysayed said:
Damn 180? How's the sides ?
also what brand u get?
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I was running Celtic labs celtictren...

Also used ok tr3n before

And lgi tvar

Sides we so tolerable ....just s little lethargic at times

bP was always in normal...my wife constant monitors me...she's a nurse.

I felt awesome, got crazy good results
 
MistrJay said:
First cycle of PH/DS's yeah. Did a cycle of SARMS a year ago.

Edit: I know SARMS aren't PH's, I didn't know if that would change anything.
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Well since its your first ph/DS cycle I would do the 1/4 andro combo for 8 weeks. Halo would be a nice 2nd run. Either is suitable for a beginner but I'm a firm believer in starting with the lighter stuff at reasonable doses and learning how your body reacts and how to pct properly to recover and maintain your gains. Best to save the stronger compounds and heavy stacks until you've accrued so much muscle mass that it is very difficult to add muscle without anabolic assistance. No point in putting your body through extreme stress to get gains you can't maintain when you could do it 10-12 lbs at a time and stand a good chance of maintaining it all.
 
Jebrook said:
Well since its your first ph/DS cycle I would do the 1/4 andro combo for 8 weeks. Halo would be a nice 2nd run. Either is suitable for a beginner but I'm a firm believer in starting with the lighter stuff at reasonable doses and learning how your body reacts and how to pct properly to recover and maintain your gains. Best to save the stronger compounds and heavy stacks until you've accrued so much muscle mass that it is very difficult to add muscle without anabolic assistance. No point in putting your body through extreme stress to get gains you can't maintain when you could do it 10-12 lbs at a time and stand a good chance of maintaining it all.
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Makes sense. I will do that, thank you. Another question I have is, do any of these compounds have a chance of causing infertility?
 
MistrJay said:
Makes sense. I will do that, thank you. Another question I have is, do any of these compounds have a chance of causing infertility?
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Anything hormonal has a chance of that. Some much greater than others but they all will. You're playing with unnatural hormone levels so anything is possible.
 
booneman77 said:
Anything hormonal has a chance of that. Some much greater than others but they all will. You're playing with unnatural hormone levels so anything is possible.
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Thanks for the heads up.
 
Here a good overview over different DHEA derivatives, action, sides and usage:

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Jebrook any idea on how Decabolin stacks up against Trestolone?
 
booneman77 said:
in what aspect? they're totally different...
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Like as far as the stats given. I figured 19 Nor derivatives were all the same when it comes to make up.

Edit: I know assuming all 19 Nor's are the same is naïve of me. I didn't know if it could be used as a Test Base or how good it was when stacked up against Trestolone.
 
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