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Donald Trump running for president

Aleksandar37 said:
Possibly, but the whole thing is insane. We teach our children that this country was founded by rebels and traitors and yet punish those that do just that. Just shows that it's the same damn thing that has been going on in every country since the beginning and will continue to the end. We just call it a different name.
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you are showing your age....my generation was taught a different 'history'.
 
Misfit28 said:
IMO, it's more about Manning being transgender than about whistleblowing with conservatives. You know, given their track record.
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He/She it or whatever was probably released out of compassion for a mentally ill person being that Manning is a transgender.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
I think he'll find a way himself to take care of not making it back here alive. So you see a difference between Manning and Snowden? I think they're both pretty valid whistle blowers.
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Being that Manning was in the hands of the government, I wonder if there was secret info given up in exchange for the pardon/early release? Its very possible.
 
I find it incredibly stupid that business'/celebrities would take sides on political issues...the country is divided almost 50/50, it seems like really bad business to alienate half of your potential profitability.

if I were on the board of a company and some idiot representing the company started spouting off inflammatory political views, I would send that person to the north pole.:chairshot:
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Extremely possible! I'd be surprised if that didn't happen actually
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Other scenarios possible are that he agreed to work as an undercover....or they decided his IQ is at the right spot where they can let him loose and they track him closely to get into the inside. Being that there is a strong reputation there it can be taken advantaged of. On the other hand Im sure wikileaks is aware of this, but being the size of the organization Im sure holes can be found.
 
ax1 said:
Other scenarios possible are that he agreed to work as an undercover....or they decided his IQ is at the right spot where they can let him loose and they track him closely to get into the inside. Being that there is a strong reputation there it can be taken advantaged of. On the other hand Im sure wikileaks is aware of this, but being the size of the organization Im sure holes can be found.
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Gotta add and Im serious....being in the hands of the government, MKUltra surely could be in the works.
 
thebigt said:
yes, of course...but the only traitor I can remember being taught was benedict Arnold. teachers were more 'pro' America in those days, imo.
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They were still that way in the 80s, but maybe it's just how I interpreted it. The biggest "heroes" were part of a country and government that they disagreed with and revolted for change.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
They were still that way in the 80s, but maybe it's just how I interpreted it. The biggest "heroes" were part of a country and government that they disagreed with and revolted for change.
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yes, in those days they were portrayed as patriots..versus today where they are portrayed as rebels and traitors. also we were taught that the founding fathers were patriotic hero's...versus today where children are taught they were 'irredeemable deplorables' for being slave owners.

I bet if you compared the history books of the 60's-70's to today's history books you would find a remarkable difference.
 
thebigt said:
yes, in those days they were portrayed as patriots..versus today where they are portrayed as rebels and traitors. also we were taught that the founding fathers were patriotic hero's...versus today where children are taught they were 'irredeemable deplorables' for being slave owners.

I bet if you compared the history books of the 60's-70's to today's history books you would find a remarkable difference.
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When I went to high school, we spent so much more time covering the Civil War than the Revolutionary War, Constitution, etc. It's almost like they didn't want to us to know that our country was founded on revolution, or to know exactly what rights we have, and how the Bill of Rights is, essentially, laws for the government to follow to protect the people from another tyrannical government.
 
thebigt said:
yes, in those days they were portrayed as patriots..versus today where they are portrayed as rebels and traitors. also we were taught that the founding fathers were patriotic hero's...versus today where children are taught they were 'irredeemable deplorables' for being slave owners.

I bet if you compared the history books of the 60's-70's to today's history books you would find a remarkable difference.
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The education system was deliberately infiltrated to get the results we have today, a bunch of dumbed down unpatriotic socialist liberal minions.

We need to destroy the Department of Education.

I know Ive posted this before, but here is a whistleblower who was former head of policy under the Reagan administration for the DOE. Daughter of Skull and Bones member, Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt.

 
muscleupcrohn said:
When I went to high school, we spent so much more time covering the Civil War than the Revolutionary War, Constitution, etc. It's almost like they didn't want to us to know that our country was founded on revolution, or to know exactly what rights we have, and how the Bill of Rights is, essentially, laws for the government to follow to protect the people from another tyrannical government.
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And now if you wear an American Flag shirt to school and it offends immigrants the courts tell you that you have to take your shirt off and look at people wearing Mexican flag shirts and feel guilty being white.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
When I went to high school, we spent so much more time covering the Civil War than the Revolutionary War, Constitution, etc. It's almost like they didn't want to us to know that our country was founded on revolution, or to know exactly what rights we have, and how the Bill of Rights is, essentially, laws for the government to follow to protect the people from another tyrannical government.
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what years did you go to high school? my oldest child is 35 and youngest is 28, I could see a difference in what they were being taught, and the difference between what they were being taught and what I was taught was incredible-teachers were putting their personal politics into the history lessons, in my day you never knew what a teachers personal view was....of course I grew up in the Midwest, things might have been much different in liberal states like new York and California.
 
ax1 said:
The education system was deliberately infiltrated to get the results we have today, a bunch of dumbed down unpatriotic socialist liberal minions.

We need to destroy the Department of Education.

I know Ive posted this before, but here is a whistleblower who was former head of policy under the Reagan administration for the DOE. Daughter of Skull and Bones member, Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt.

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trump has a hard road ahead of him if he wants to change the educational system in this country. the teachers union is very strong and democrats are dedicated to supporting them.


btw-I just heard that the united states ranks 25th in reading/arithmetic/science!!! if this is true it is disgraceful with as much money as we spend on educating our children!!!
 
thebigt said:
what years did you go to high school? my oldest child is 35 and youngest is 28, I could see a difference in what they were being taught, and the difference between what they were being taught and what I was taught was incredible-teachers were putting their personal politics into the history lessons, in my day you never knew what a teachers personal view was....of course I grew up in the Midwest, things might have been much different in liberal states like new York and California.
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I'm 22, so I graduated HS in 2013 I think. I remember having a very left-leaning civics teacher in middle school that I didn't realize seemed to be pushing her political ideologies until I was in high school an some friends and I became more libertarian-leaning. Luckily, I had a very good economics and history teacher senior year who didn't let the BS run the classroom. He was a hippie who went to Woodstock and was pretty anti-establishment, and I think called some of the school's administration Nazis, and didn't listen to all of the standardized, monotonous nonsense that the state/federal government was pushing into the classroom. His favorite word was apathy, haha. I remember that the administration wanted the students to raise 1-5 fingers every so often in class to show the teacher how well they are understanding the topic, so he told us to raise one finger (guess which one). He also took the entire class on a "field trip" to stand in the hallway by the restroom after some uptight hall monitor chastised a student because the hallpass wasn't up to date. He was pretty anti-gun himself, but said he knows it's peoples' right to own them, and said that his daughter did, but he just didn't want to. We would have good debates about gun control all the time, which seems like it'd be almost impossible in 2017 with all the shootings and paranoia going on. He was definitely one of my favorite teachers, but of course the school's administration hated him.
 
thebigt said:
yes, in those days they were portrayed as patriots..versus today where they are portrayed as rebels and traitors. also we were taught that the founding fathers were patriotic hero's...versus today where children are taught they were 'irredeemable deplorables' for being slave owners.

I bet if you compared the history books of the 60's-70's to today's history books you would find a remarkable difference.
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It depends also what part of the country you attend school in, but this doesn't have to be limited to US history. Any history is full of these people and my point is that your point of view is what determines if they are patriots or traitors. World history is full of stories of people that just sat around and did wht they were supposed to lol
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I'm 22, so I graduated HS in 2013 I think. I remember having a very left-leaning civics teacher in middle school that I didn't realize seemed to be pushing her political ideologies until I was in high school an some friends and I became more libertarian-leaning. Luckily, I had a very good economics and history teacher senior year who didn't let the BS run the classroom. He was a hippie who went to Woodstock and was pretty anti-establishment, and I think called some of the school's administration Nazis, and didn't listen to all of the standardized, monotonous nonsense that the state/federal government was pushing into the classroom. His favorite word was apathy, haha. I remember that the administration wanted the students to raise 1-5 fingers every so often in class to show the teacher how well they are understanding the topic, so he told us to raise one finger (guess which one). He also took the entire class on a "field trip" to stand in the hallway by the restroom after some uptight hall monitor chastised a student because the hallpass wasn't up to date. He was pretty anti-gun himself, but said he knows it's peoples' right to own them, and said that his daughter did, but he just didn't want to. We would have good debates about gun control all the time, which seems like it'd be almost impossible in 2017 with all the shootings and paranoia going on. He was definitely one of my favorite teachers, but of course the school's administration hated him.
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that is an incredible difference between the 'WAY' you were taught and how I was taught....my history class was more about facts-dates and events and everything came straight from the book...I don't know if they chose not to or weren't allowed to, but my teachers never gave their personal views...of course you could tell that the younger teachers were more liberal by how they dressed and acted, but they were kept in check by the 'old school' teachers and school administration. I am sure things were much more liberal on college campuses back then-no doubt, but liberalism had not really reached elementary/high school-as far as teachers curriculum was concerned ....we as students had changed a great deal as we were the 'sex drugs and rock and roll' generation, but teachers plans and rules were still very much old school values.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
It depends also what part of the country you attend school in, but this doesn't have to be limited to US history. Any history is full of these people and my point is that your point of view is what determines if they are patriots or traitors. World history is full of stories of people that just sat around and did wht they were supposed to lol
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I don't think teachers were supposed to express a point of view in those days, that is my point...unlike today.
 
thebigt said:
that is an incredible difference between the 'WAY' you were taught and how I was taught....my history class was more about facts-dates and events and everything came straight from the book...I don't know if they chose not to or weren't allowed to, but my teachers never gave their personal views...of course you could tell that the younger teachers were more liberal by how they dressed and acted, but they were kept in check by the 'old school' teachers and school administration. I am sure things were much more liberal on college campuses back then-no doubt, but liberalism had not really reached elementary/high school-as far as teachers curriculum was concerned ....we as students had changed a great deal as we were the 'sex drugs and rock and roll' generation, but teachers plans and rules were still very much old school values.
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Oh, we were taught plenty of dates/names/facts in history/government courses, but rarely any substance (critical thinking, motivation for these events/actions, etc). It does seem like the American Revolution and the Constitution was brushed over relatively quickly, while memorizing a plethora of names/dates/battles in the Civil War was much more important than the context in which our country was founded and the document(s) that are the backbone of our government, for some strange reason. Speaking of college campuses, I've had a few very liberal professors in government/culture/society (general electives) courses, and some of them did inject their own views into the courses, often by presenting only one side of an issue, or giving us half of a picture, or using fallacious logic, etc. I remember one professor saying how bad the US is because of our "high income inequality," even saying how it's greater than some third-world countries on a graph, so I asked to see absolute numbers on wealth, such as how much do the "poor" people make in each country. I told him that if the rich people make $2,500 a year, and the poor people make $2,000 a year, you have almost no income inequality, but if the poor people make $20,000 a year, and the rich people make $200,000 a year, you have huge income inequality, but the "poor" people in the second country still make 10x the poor people in the first country, and likely have a much higher quality of life. Would it be better to have everyone be equal in poverty to eliminate income inequality? Of course, I didn't get a real response.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Oh, we were taught plenty of dates/names/facts in history/government courses, but rarely any substance (critical thinking, motivation for these events/actions, etc). It does seem like the American Revolution and the Constitution was brushed over relatively quickly, while memorizing a plethora of names/dates/battles in the Civil War was much more important than the context in which our country was founded and the document(s) that are the backbone of our government, for some strange reason. Speaking of college campuses, I've had a few very liberal professors in government/culture/society (general electives) courses, and some of them did inject their own views into the courses, often by presenting only one side of an issue, or giving us half of a picture, or using fallacious logic, etc. I remember one professor saying how bad the US is because of our "high income inequality," even saying how it's greater than some third-world countries on a graph, so I asked to see absolute numbers on wealth, such as how much do the "poor" people make in each country. I told him that if the rich people make $2,500 a year, and the poor people make $2,000 a year, you have almost no income inequality, but if the poor people make $20,000 a year, and the rich people make $200,000 a year, you have huge income inequality, but the "poor" people in the second country still make 10x the poor people in the first country, and likely have a much higher quality of life. Would it be better to have everyone be equal in poverty to eliminate income inequality? Of course, I didn't get a real response.
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What state did you go to school? I went to grade school in Illinois while my girlfriend went to grade school in Mississippi. We definitely had different amounts of time dedicated to covering the civil war...also what we were taught about it lol.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Oh, we were taught plenty of dates/names/facts in history/government courses, but rarely any substance (critical thinking, motivation for these events/actions, etc). It does seem like the American Revolution and the Constitution was brushed over relatively quickly, while memorizing a plethora of names/dates/battles in the Civil War was much more important than the context in which our country was founded and the document(s) that are the backbone of our government, for some strange reason. Speaking of college campuses, I've had a few very liberal professors in government/culture/society (general electives) courses, and some of them did inject their own views into the courses, often by presenting only one side of an issue, or giving us half of a picture, or using fallacious logic, etc. I remember one professor saying how bad the US is because of our "high income inequality," even saying how it's greater than some third-world countries on a graph, so I asked to see absolute numbers on wealth, such as how much do the "poor" people make in each country. I told him that if the rich people make $2,500 a year, and the poor people make $2,000 a year, you have almost no income inequality, but if the poor people make $20,000 a year, and the rich people make $200,000 a year, you have huge income inequality, but the "poor" people in the second country still make 10x the poor people in the first country, and likely have a much higher quality of life. Would it be better to have everyone be equal in poverty to eliminate income inequality? Of course, I didn't get a real response.
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I think you are brighter/smarter than the average college student and as such are capable of critical thinking on your own...unfortunately I think many in college today have no business being there and just follow what is popular or cool....20 years ago the u.s ranked number 1 in high school and college education, in 2009 we were 18th out of 36 industrialized nations....according to historynet.com.
 
thebigt said:
btw-I just heard that the united states ranks 25th in reading/arithmetic/science!!! if this is true it is disgraceful with as much money as we spend on educating our children!!!
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It has dropped because education system here is not designed for those purposes in mind. The purpose of education is to change the thoughts, actions, and feelings of students along with challenging the students fixed beliefs. This is the educational philosophy of Professor Benjamin Bloom who implemented the education system here as we know it now.
 
It's seems like the government doesn't want to count up the people signing for this petition Invalid Link Removed
 
ax1 said:
We just need a petition to bring back 1776.
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Make the horse and carriage great again?

A Canadian's view on the education topic:

EU education systems are dusting the US and Trump will not be the guy to fix that. I hope I'm wrong but that ranking may continue dropping.

It's so much more than the teachers and curriculum. It's the students' mentality. The Eastern world accels at producing discipline, and a disciplined mind will always learn and retain more.

Thankfully America is still the "place to be" for the elite graduates so you win big on skilled immigrants. For now anyways, we'll see how much ignorance Trump can muster to close doors and burn bridges in his time in office.
 
Driven2lift said:
Make the horse and carriage great again?

A Canadian's view on the education topic:

EU education systems are dusting the US and Trump will not be the guy to fix that. I hope I'm wrong but that ranking may continue dropping.

It's so much more than the teachers and curriculum. It's the students' mentality. The Eastern world accels at producing discipline, and a disciplined mind will always learn and retain more.

Thankfully America is still the "place to be" for the elite graduates so you win big on skilled immigrants. For now anyways, we'll see how much ignorance Trump can muster to close doors and burn bridges in his time in office.
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The system is messed up because of government intervention. Creating a centralized learning system without central funding doesn't work or the system itself doesn't work. Privately funded schooling with a 0$ minimum wage would work better. Creating a median income level for schooling within area for certain people, others can also choose what schools their kids can go to for whatever reason. Schooling competing for private funding would be huge as long as they know how to go about it.
 
Driven2lift said:
Make the horse and carriage great again?

A Canadian's view on the education topic:

EU education systems are dusting the US and Trump will not be the guy to fix that. I hope I'm wrong but that ranking may continue dropping.

It's so much more than the teachers and curriculum. It's the students' mentality. The Eastern world accels at producing discipline, and a disciplined mind will always learn and retain more.

Thankfully America is still the "place to be" for the elite graduates so you win big on skilled immigrants. For now anyways, we'll see how much ignorance Trump can muster to close doors and burn bridges in his time in office.
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lol...it seems for every skilled immigrant we get there are probably 10,000 unskilled illegals...it is estimated that 12 million illegals are in the U.S and it may be closer to 20 million. illegal immigrants enroll and go to school, many of whom are not literate in English, it seems rational to me that this could be one reason for the drop in the U.S's ranking of education

0ne of the differences between illegals in Canada and the U.S is that most illegals in Canada obtained entry legally and outstayed their welcome, at least Canada had the chance to vet them before entry.

as far as the EU and education goes, I look to see a huge drop in their ranking with the huge influx of refugees from what is basically a third world nation[Syria]....my prediction is that Germany in particular is going to suffer a massive drop in ranking!!!
 
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I know I post a lot of Mises articles but all different people write these articles lol the only bias is that they are capitalists.
 
thebigt said:
lol...it seems for every skilled immigrant we get there are probably 10,000 unskilled illegals...it is estimated that 12 million illegals are in the U.S and it may be closer to 20 million. illegal immigrants enroll and go to school, many of whom are not literate in English, it seems rational to me that this could be one reason for the drop in the U.S's ranking of education

0ne of the differences between illegals in Canada and the U.S is that most illegals in Canada obtained entry legally and outstayed their welcome, at least Canada had the chance to vet them before entry.

as far as the EU and education goes, I look to see a huge drop in their ranking with the huge influx of refugees from what is basically a third world nation[Syria]....my prediction is that Germany in particular is going to suffer a massive drop in ranking!!!
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All payed by out tax dollars of course, in which this country is 20 trillion dollars broke and the education system as a whole is in a financial deficit. Then people wonder why we want people to stop illegally coming here and also want to control the amount/who comes here legally. If we dont control the situation there wont be an America anymore.
 
CJNator said:
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I know I post a lot of Mises articles but all different people write these articles lol the only bias is that they are capitalists.
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I did a quick google to see how education[teachers]were paid in the old west in the 1800's, but couldn't come up with much.
 
thebigt said:
I did a quick google to see how education[teachers]were paid in the old west in the 1800's, but couldn't come up with much.
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I ran into a old high school math teacher a few months back (92 freshman year) who was one of the best, strict and most disciplined teachers I ever had. He pushed me further than 90% of all other teachers. I asked him if he still teaches and he said in 98 he retired. I told him, he still was young and I was surprised he had retired so soon. He told me that they offered him and other teachers a nice retirement package so he and others can retire very early and the school board can replace them with new young teachers they can better control and a far lower cost. I can imagine this hasnt been happening only in NY but many other places.
 
Here something out of topic -but a hilarious "must see", stumbled upon this gem a minute ago:

[video=youtube;6filPCtrt0c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6filPCtrt0c[/video]
 
hairygrandpa said:
Here something out of topic -but a hilarious "must see", stumbled upon this gem a minute ago:

[video=youtube;6filPCtrt0c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6filPCtrt0c[/video]
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Haha, I've heard several versions of that story, some dating back quite a long time. I don't remember if any of them actually happened though. It reminds me of this book:
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I love that it's the second edition too. Clearly there have been recent advances, likely technological, in the field of avoiding huge ships.
 
There is another old but classic dialogue between a US destroyer and a lighthouse.

They radio repeatedly for the lighthouse to change course
 
hairygrandpa said:
Here something out of topic -but a hilarious "must see", stumbled upon this gem a minute ago:

[video=youtube;6filPCtrt0c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6filPCtrt0c[/video]
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'fake news'...a captain in the u.s. navy would never reveal his intended destination and reason for going there....loose lips sink ships, lol.

this is one of the reasons mail is addressed to fpo and apo addresses....
 
thebigt said:
lol...it seems for every skilled immigrant we get there are probably 10,000 unskilled illegals...it is estimated that 12 million illegals are in the U.S and it may be closer to 20 million. illegal immigrants enroll and go to school, many of whom are not literate in English, it seems rational to me that this could be one reason for the drop in the U.S's ranking of education

0ne of the differences between illegals in Canada and the U.S is that most illegals in Canada obtained entry legally and outstayed their welcome, at least Canada had the chance to vet them before entry.

as far as the EU and education goes, I look to see a huge drop in their ranking with the huge influx of refugees from what is basically a third world nation[Syria]....my prediction is that Germany in particular is going to suffer a massive drop in ranking!!!
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You're kidding me right?

Illegal immigrants are the reason that America is lagging in education?

Give me a break.
 
Misfit28 said:
You're kidding me right?

Illegal immigrants are the reason that America is lagging in education?

Give me a break.
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The education system is financially in a deficit which having illegals attend surely doesnt help, but I do know the reason education is lagging is due to the Department of Education which needs to be abolished for good. Illegals just become victims in part of the DEP's brainwashing program.
 
ax1 said:
The education system is financially in a deficit which having illegals attend surely doesnt help, but I do know the reason education is lagging is due to the Department of Education which needs to be abolished for good. Illegals just become victims in part of the DEP's brainwashing program.
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Families and the children need to start taking responsibility as well. I went to a **** high school just south of Chicago and I now hold a PhD in neuroscience. My father was unemployed most of my life with only my mother working to raise 3 kids and him. Some of my friends never finished high school and most didn't go on to college. School is what you make of it. The system sucks and has always sucked and change is needed, but in the meantime people need to stop using a failed system as an excuse. Not everybody is going to get into Harvard or Yale even if you have perfect test scores and grades, but you can still bust your ass and study and get into an alright college and work your way up.
 
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