Donald Trump running for president

[HIT4ME]

On another note, this dicussion has made me think about the voter ID arguments and it is funny that liberals claim they are against it because it "disenfranchises" voters and then they want mail-in voting.

Let's apply the same standards, will the government provide a mailing address to everyone? Where do you mail the ballot to a homeless person? How do you track it? Are they going to be disenfranchised? Is it fair to require poor and homeless to travel to a poll, while everyone else can mail in?

And there IS a history of votes not being counted through mail-in voting because signatures on the ballots did not match with the tracking signature. These votes were thus treated as fraud, but if voter fraud is so non-existent, then all of these voters were effectively disenfranchised by mail-in voting.

*of course I am being a little facetious here...but just thought it was worth bringing up.

 

[Jiigzz]

time to send in SWAT...
Social
Workers
Action
Team

I don't think anyone is suggesting that social workers or mental health workers should be first responders to violent or dangerous criminals. You utilize those services as an adjunct to good policing; namely to reduce strain on police resources for things typically out of their realm. If you have a violent or dangerous criminal, then police should respond.

For example, we deal a lot with family violence as it is the highest per capita in the world. Police will attend instances happening now, or where there is a threat to life, property or potential for threat to life or property. A social worker will then be assigned the case (as are our family harm units) in order to reduce the harm from reoccuring in the future. Police are not social workers, and shouldn't be expected to have that burden. Police defuse the situation, and social workers work over the long term to reduce instances in the future. It's a process, and bound to have relapses, so the cycle repeats. Police attend, defuse and the social worker starts again.

In the case of mental health - this is a bit more complex here in NZ. If the person is a threat to life or property, then police will attend and defuse. But we don't expect our police to invest resources into returning twice a week and put in place a crisis plan and mental health plan. That's for mental health workers to do.

I may be reading to much into this, but it sounds like you are placing the burden of mental health and social work onto the police. They are not resourced or trained in either of those. Placing that expectation on them is setting them up for failure and/ or diminishing the work of mental health and social workers.

 

[Jiigzz]

Oh, see? I was right to question it then!

I wonder how they found out all these people passed, since my grandmother received a $1200 stimulus check when she died in Oct. 2019. And apparently it was a big enough problem that it was in the news.

They can't avoid sending out $1200 to dead people, but I am sure they are catching every ballot, especially since they caught all of these. Especially since, as you point out, thousands of people have been passing away each day. I think you have just pointed out a problem with early mail-in voting I had not considered, which serves to make me see its shortcomings even further.

It is funny how evidence of an issue is accepted as proof the issue is under control.

Unless you really believe they had a 100% success rate on catching all these ballots?

At the time the vote was cast, the vote was legal. Had they gone in in person, the vote would have been cast instantly only for them to die later.

Are you suggesting we also remove votes of those who die after visiting the polls before the election results have been completely tallied? It sounds to me that you are. What is the process in place for that? Or is the fault on mail-in voting because you already disagree with it?

I.e:

Early Voting
Sometimes circumstances make it hard or impossible for you to vote on Election Day. But your state may let you vote during a designated early voting period.

Please note: Your state's rules and voting dates may change in 2020 due to the coronavirus pandemic.

• Most states have early voting. This lets registered voters vote on specified dates before Election Day.
• You don't need an excuse to vote early.

 

[HIT4ME]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that social workers or mental health workers should be first responders to violent or dangerous criminals. You utilize those services as an adjunct to good policing; namely to reduce strain on police resources for things typically out of their realm. If you have a violent or dangerous criminal, then police should respond.

For example, we deal a lot with family violence as it is the highest per capita in the world. Police will attend instances happening now, or where there is a threat to life, property or potential for threat to life or property. A social worker will then be assigned the case (as are our family harm units) in order to reduce the harm from reoccuring in the future. Police are not social workers, and shouldn't be expected to have that burden. Police defuse the situation, and social workers work over the long term to reduce instances in the future. It's a process, and bound to have relapses, so the cycle repeats. Police attend, defuse and the social worker starts again.

In the case of mental health - this is a bit more complex here in NZ. If the person is a threat to life or property, then police will attend and defuse. But we don't expect our police to invest resources into returning twice a week and put in place a crisis plan and mental health plan. That's for mental health workers to do.

I may be reading to much into this, but it sounds like you are placing the burden of mental health and social work onto the police. They are not resourced or trained in either of those. Placing that expectation on them is setting them up for failure and/ or diminishing the work of mental health and social workers.

There are a lot of people using the fact that police are not social workers as a justification that they have too much power and should be defended. Yes, they should have a narrow focus and support from other systems, but a lot of people are naive to how much they are needed.

 

[HIT4ME]

At the time the vote was cast, the vote was legal. Had they gone in in person, the vote would have been cast instantly only for them to die later.

Are you suggesting we also remove votes of those who die after visiting the polls before the election results have been completely tallied? It sounds to me that you are. What is the process in place for that? Or is the fault on mail-in voting because you already disagree with it?

I.e:

Early Voting
Sometimes circumstances make it hard or impossible for you to vote on Election Day. But your state may let you vote during a designated early voting period.

Please note: Your state's rules and voting dates may change in 2020 due to the coronavirus pandemic.

• Most states have early voting. This lets registered voters vote on specified dates before Election Day.
• You don't need an excuse to vote early.

The vote is not legal until election day. They can mail it in early, but it cannot be counted until it is cast on their behalf on election day.

If someone casts the vote early and passes before election day, their vote should not be counted. This is obviously agreed, since they invalidated these votes for this very reason.

The example in Michigan, where about 20% of the votes were cast by mail, highlights how big this problem could become if higher percentages of voters start using mail-in.

 

[thebigt]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that social workers or mental health workers should be first responders to violent or dangerous criminals. You utilize those services as an adjunct to good policing; namely to reduce strain on police resources for things typically out of their realm. If you have a violent or dangerous criminal, then police should respond.

For example, we deal a lot with family violence as it is the highest per capita in the world. Police will attend instances happening now, or where there is a threat to life, property or potential for threat to life or property. A social worker will then be assigned the case (as are our family harm units) in order to reduce the harm from reoccuring in the future. Police are not social workers, and shouldn't be expected to have that burden. Police defuse the situation, and social workers work over the long term to reduce instances in the future. It's a process, and bound to have relapses, so the cycle repeats. Police attend, defuse and the social worker starts again.

In the case of mental health - this is a bit more complex here in NZ. If the person is a threat to life or property, then police will attend and defuse. But we don't expect our police to invest resources into returning twice a week and put in place a crisis plan and mental health plan. That's for mental health workers to do.

I may be reading to much into this, but it sounds like you are placing the burden of mental health and social work onto the police. They are not resourced or trained in either of those. Placing that expectation on them is setting them up for failure and/ or diminishing the work of mental health and social workers.

my friend what happens when there are no police? senior police are taking early retirements, younger cops are choosing alternative careers, and very few young people want to be cops...the BLM/democrat war on cops is succeeding.

 

[thebigt]

The vote is not legal until election day. They can mail it in early, but it cannot be counted until it is cast on their behalf on election day.

If someone casts the vote early and passes before election day, their vote should not be counted. This is obviously agreed, since they invalidated these votes for this very reason.

The example in Michigan, where about 20% of the votes were cast by mail, highlights how big this problem could become if higher percentages of voters start using mail-in.

if states want to have mail in voting are they paying for the postage cost?

 

[Jiigzz]

There are a lot of people using the fact that police are not social workers as a justification that they have too much power and should be defended. Yes, they should have a narrow focus and support from other systems, but a lot of people are naive to how much they are needed.

100% agree. People grossly underestimate the stuff they attend to. They will find out pretty quick if their visions of de-establishing the police continue. Police need adequate resources. I dont know about specifics of US policing, but one family harm episode can tie up 2 Icars for a few hours. We are far less inclined to arrest on family harm because neither the victim (usually also the caller) or the offender (for obvious reasons) provide statements. Typically we could only defuse, and if it wasn't sufficient for a K9, protection order or police safety order, then we would have to leave it at that. We'd probably get another call in a few hours, which again will tie up a few Icars for hours.

On some nights, you might have 10 Icars, a few Qcars, a few sergeants out on patrol. we simply dont have resources to pour into social work or mental health work as well.

 

[thebigt]

'new zealand to delay election until october, citing coronavirus resurgence'

@Jiigzz care to comment?

 

[Jiigzz]

The vote is not legal until election day. They can mail it in early, but it cannot be counted until it is cast on their behalf on election day.

If someone casts the vote early and passes before election day, their vote should not be counted. This is obviously agreed, since they invalidated these votes for this very reason.

The example in Michigan, where about 20% of the votes were cast by mail, highlights how big this problem could become if higher percentages of voters start using mail-in.

Yeah I get that, but my point is that if you vote early by any means, there is a chance that person will die before election day, regardless of how they voted.

It is also not voter fraud because they had voted with the intent of being alive. Fraud is intentional deceit, not just someone voting then dying before it can be counted.

 

[Jiigzz]

'new zealand to delay election until october, citing coronavirus resurgence'

@Jiigzz care to comment?

The Opposition parties asked our sitting government for a delay, and she accepted. I'm OK with that, as long as the majority of parties agree to the delay (Labour, National, NZ First, Greens and Act have agreed to it).

 

[HIT4ME]

Yeah I get that, but my point is that if you vote early by any means, there is a chance that person will die before election day, regardless of how they voted.

It is also not voter fraud because they had voted with the intent of being alive. Fraud is intentional deceit, not just someone voting then dying before it can be counted.

Gotcha. We are on the same page there....more agreement. No fun at all.

 

[Jiigzz]

my friend what happens when there are no police? senior police are taking early retirements, younger cops are choosing alternative careers, and very few young people want to be cops...the BLM/democrat war on cops is succeeding.

Then you're in trouble. It sucks and I feel for those states and cities involved. Police ARE essential. I'd be backing them 100%.

 

[jswain34]

Then you're in trouble. It sucks and I feel for those states and cities involved. Police ARE essential. I'd be backing them 100%.

Well, you must be racist then?

 

[Jiigzz]

Gotcha. We are on the same page there....more agreement. No fun at all.

FWIW, I personally can see the points you are making and can 100% understand the concerns. I'm just not sure how you guys go about finding a middle ground that both protects the vulnerable voters on both sides and ensures a credible election.

Ideally, what would you suggest or deem reasonable? I have been thinking about it, and I think early voting is pretty solid. Just beat the crowds and only mail-in IF there is genuine concerns for health. What do you guys think?

 

[Jiigzz]

Well, you must be racist then?

Haha, not a chance. I back the Police as an enitity, not necessarily all the individual officers who break trust and confidence. I know of Police Officers who have used secure databases to stalk people they found attractive. I also know of officers who spoke out against them. I don't trust the first officer, but I trust the organisation for the way its handled 'bad' cops.

 

[HIT4ME]

FWIW, I personally can see the points you are making and can 100% understand the concerns. I'm just not sure how you guys go about finding a middle ground that both protects the vulnerable voters on both sides and ensures a credible election.

Ideally, what would you suggest or deem reasonable? I have been thinking about it, and I think early voting is pretty solid. Just beat the crowds and only mail-in IF there is genuine concerns for health. What do you guys think?

These are good questions, without easy answers, and probably more of what we should be focused on than on how the other side won't work.

Plus, these debates are teaching me a lot, so I am not sure I have thought about it enough. I will have to get back to you on these qusstions.

 

[HIT4ME]

More disenfranchising:

Business Insider: Nearly 17% of mailed ballots in a Nevada county were never delivered - Business Insider.

A Nevada county mailed out 1.3 million ballots for its primary election but 1 in 5 were never delivered

The June primary was Nevada's first election conducted fully through mail-in ballots due to the coronavirus pandemic but 223,000 were never delivered.

www.businessinsider.com

And now Pelosi has called congress back from break. Really highlights that they could care less about anything but gaining as much power as possible. People are unemployed and suffering, well they can wait until we are back from vacation.

The post office is threatening our ability to stuff the blot box. Well we better cut our vacation short for that!

What a scumbag.

 

[Jiigzz]

More disenfranchising:

Business Insider: Nearly 17% of mailed ballots in a Nevada county were never delivered - Business Insider.

A Nevada county mailed out 1.3 million ballots for its primary election but 1 in 5 were never delivered

The June primary was Nevada's first election conducted fully through mail-in ballots due to the coronavirus pandemic but 223,000 were never delivered.

www.businessinsider.com

And now Pelosi has called congress back from break. Really highlights that they could care less about anything but gaining as much power as possible. People are unemployed and suffering, well they can wait until we are back from vacation.

The post office is threatening our ability to stuff the blot box. Well we better cut our vacation short for that!

What a scumbag.

That's significant. I saw some of it was outdated voter rolls.

Can see now there are plenty of issues. 1 in 5 isnt good enough.

Good luck

 

[sammpedd88]

time to send in SWAT...
Social
Workers
Action
Team

 

[thebigt]

Then you're in trouble. It sucks and I feel for those states and cities involved. Police ARE essential. I'd be backing them 100%.

the large cities are in trouble.

 

[thebigt]

The Opposition parties asked our sitting government for a delay, and she accepted. I'm OK with that, as long as the majority of parties agree to the delay (Labour, National, NZ First, Greens and Act have agreed to it).

5 parties agreed...can't get 2 to agree on anything here. sad but true.

 

[Jiigzz]

5 parties agreed...can't get 2 to agree on anything here. sad but true.

If National had disagreed (although they were the main driving force of postponement), and Labour pushed it out anyway, I would absolutely have an issue with that.

TBH it works more in Nationals favour to push it out because they recently appointed a new leader and this gives her more time to stabilise the voting base and instill confidence in the party. If anything, its probably a bad move for Labour, but it's the right thing to do

 

[ax1]

Geez, anybody even hear about this? I ran into by accident, and this is saddening that it was only by accident.

Photos: Mauritius oil spill in the Indian Ocean | CNN

The island of Mauritius is facing an environmental emergency as a wrecked ship is leaking tons of diesel and oil into the Indian Ocean.

www.cnn.com

 

[Jiigzz]

Geez, anybody even hear about this? I ran into by accident, and this is saddening that it was only by accident.

Photos: Mauritius oil spill in the Indian Ocean | CNN

The island of Mauritius is facing an environmental emergency as a wrecked ship is leaking tons of diesel and oil into the Indian Ocean.

www.cnn.com

Yeah, this stuff is sad.

You guys heard of VetPaw? Those are some awesome people

 

[HIT4ME]

That's significant. I saw some of it was outdated voter rolls.

Can see now there are plenty of issues. 1 in 5 isnt good enough.

Good luck

Yeah, like anything, I don't think it's probably the entire story - you have good points as well. I'm not saying we're talking "widespread" fraud here. And part of this is me playing devil's advocate as well of course, but I do think this is a power play on the part of the liberals and the media has made it out like Trump is just being a dictator and trying to retain power. Of course, he doesn't help with his statements, but I guess that he is being honest that he has motivations as well - something the democrats haven't tried.

The democrats want to use Covid as a way to expand mail-in voting, which they see as a means of skewing voting in their favor. I am not sure how anyone is missing the irony that the party that supposedly fights for public support programs goes on vacation without reaching any agreement and leaves the people in the country hanging - but then cuts that vacation short when they think they may not be able to skew the voting in their favor. And the media clearly has a 6th grade target audience and is preaching this narrative.

Now they are hanging on the argument that, "We made an offer, they made an offer, we wanted to meet in the middle and they wouldn't budge!" - accept I negotiate every day. It's a bush league game they played. They started off 3X the conservative's offer and then acted like we should settle on 2X and that would be fair. But fair isn't a measure of where you started, it's a measure of the situation and the factors involved. Taking an unreasonable stance and then moving toward a slightly more reasonable stance is not being fair and compromising.

So, instead of being realistic and trying to get SOMETHING for the people, they would rather stand ground and make demands that limit the presidents authority and gain more power for themselves and let the people get nothing until they get the power they want.

And I can agree - conservatives do this too! All career politicians do this! It's their JOB. And it shouldn't be a job, it should be service to the country.

Fraud, miscounts, lost votes - the post office just isn't run well enough to pull it off on a large scale. The majority of the states in the US have less than 20% of their votes through absentee ballots, and these issues are already on a scale that could impact a close election. Granted, if anything, this may actually be a case FOR the electoral college setup - since a state that is off 1000 votes only sways their number of votes and not an actual 1000 votes in the entire system - but I don't know.

We also live in a country where you can get pulled over for an expired registration, pay your fine, not have it recorded, and then unknowingly have your license revoked and and get arrested the next time you pull over because the database is flawed. Databases are rarely accurate to begin with.

Sorry for the rant! haha. You get me thinking....

Geez, anybody even hear about this? I ran into by accident, and this is saddening that it was only by accident.

Photos: Mauritius oil spill in the Indian Ocean | CNN

The island of Mauritius is facing an environmental emergency as a wrecked ship is leaking tons of diesel and oil into the Indian Ocean.

www.cnn.com

I did not hear about this. Strangely, when I saw the headline and clicked on it, I went in with the idea that I wouldn't be emotionally upset about it - just that it would be something that logically upset me. But seeing all those people working to contain it, the destruction - it really is sad and was emotional.

 

[ax1]

Speaking of oil and precious wildlife, Dump just announced turning Alaska into Saudi Arabia!

Trump administration announces plans to drill in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge | CNN Politics

Interior Secretary David Bernhardt on Monday announced plans for an oil and gas leasing program in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, clearing the way for drilling in the remote Alaskan area.

www.cnn.com

Nice job Dump! Sure the Eskimos love ya'll!

 

[manifesto]

 

[dixonk]

Speaking of oil and precious wildlife, Dump just announced turning Alaska into Saudi Arabia!

Trump administration announces plans to drill in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge | CNN Politics

Interior Secretary David Bernhardt on Monday announced plans for an oil and gas leasing program in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, clearing the way for drilling in the remote Alaskan area.

www.cnn.com

Nice job Dump! Sure the Eskimos love ya'll!

You would prefer we keep our tongue in Saudis ass?

 

[ax1]

You would prefer we keep our tongue in Saudis ass?

If rather buy it from Venuzuela, their economy really needs it. Id even buy it from Iran if the price was right. Let competition and the market flourish and end all these nonesense sanctions.

 

[dixonk]

If rather buy it from Venuzuela, their economy really needs it. Id even buy it from Iran if the price was right. Let competition and the market flourish and end all these nonesense sanctions.

I would rather we use our own and let the other evil empires sit on it and spin.

 

[HIT4ME]

I always wonder what people think will happen when we have used up all of the oil around the world and the only place left to get it is in the US? All I can say is, we had better have a strong military if that happens.

 

[dixonk]

If rather buy it from Venuzuela, their economy really needs it. Id even buy it from Iran if the price was right. Let competition and the market flourish and end all these nonesense sanctions.

I would rather we use our own and let the other evil empires sit on it and spin.

 

[ax1]

I would rather we use our own and let the other evil empires sit on it and spin.

I think we have a limited amount no matter what, it would be smart to also consider our independent future reserves and continue to buy or trade with other countries while we transition into better technologies.

 

[dixonk]

I think we have a limited amount no matter what, it would be smart to also consider our independent future reserves and continue to buy or trade with other countries while we transition into better technologies.

It will be better to be the country looking for it when it runs out rather than the country having it whenever everyone else runs out.

 

[ax1]

It will be better to be the country looking for it when it runs out rather than the country having it whenever everyone else runs out.

If you run out of oil, with the current tech as is you have limited defense, in some ways of course. Keep the nukes filled we are ok blowing the planet up into smithereens, lol

Wouldnt you rather be in a kicking ass position when it comes to national defense?

 

[dixonk]

If you run out of oil, with the current tech as is you have limited defense, in some ways of course. Keep the nukes filled we are ok blowing the planet up into smithereens, lol

Wouldnt you rather be in a kicking ass position when it comes to national defense?

Offense is more advantageous than defense.

 

[thebigt]

seattle police officer tells black lives protester he's resigning 'you guys won'.

what did they win?

 

[sammpedd88]

seattle police officer tells black lives protester he's resigning 'you guys won'.

what did they win?

Did you watch the video? Seems like the BLM guy thought the cop was going to quit and join them in the protest. I got a kick out of it.

 

[thebigt]

BLM protesters demand white people give up their homes...lol

 

[thebigt]

Did you watch the video? Seems like the BLM guy thought the cop was going to quit and join them in the protest. I got a kick out of it.

i want to see ALL cops in NYC, Seattle, Portland and Chicago quit....give the morons what they want!!!

 

[sammpedd88]

i want to see ALL cops in NYC, Seattle, Portland and Chicago quit....give the morons what they want!!!

Me too man!

 

[thebigt]

Me too man!

did you see that video of the kid pulled from his truck and beaten in portland?

if that were my son those animals did that to i would be the resurgence of charles bronson!!!

 

[Jiigzz]

i want to see ALL cops in NYC, Seattle, Portland and Chicago quit....give the morons what they want!!!

Imagine that. Chaos

 

[Jiigzz]

BLM protesters demand white people give up their homes...lol

This is just getting ridiculous.

 

[thebigt]

This is just getting ridiculous. View attachment 196752

you racist!!!

 

[thebigt]

portland protest turns violent, brutal assault caught on video----this made me sick to watch---protest my ass!!!

ted wheeler the mayor of portland is on record saying he supports protesters.

 

[thebigt]

Imagine that. Chaos

no need to imagine...you want to spend a week in downtown portland?

 

[dixonk]

 

[sammpedd88]

BLM protesters demand white people give up their homes...lol

I’ve also see where BLM wants reparations for slavery, free housing and free utilities for all black people, not just the low income ones. It sickens me to think that a race or nationality, hell anymore for that matter thinks that they deserve something for nothing. I’m FED THE **** UP WITH THE SOCIALIST BULLSHIT!!!!