Does glutamine and/or BCAAs cause an insulin response?

[alphanik]

Does glutamine and/or BCAAs cause an insulin response?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Yes, a massive one at that. Thankfully, it's short-lived too.

 

[alphanik]

Thanks mate

 

[alphanik]

Yes, a massive one at that. Thankfully, it's short-lived too.

Have you read about the meat and nuts breakfast? I was thinking about employing this in an upcoming cut,but i would assume as it is used to keep insulin release controlled for longer and therefore it is only appropriate if u workout after breakfast..,I tend to workout first thing on an empty stomach and use breakfast as my post workout meal, so it would make that kind of meal inappropriate for my training schedule right??

 

[Clemenza]

Everyone needs to stop worrying so much about raising insulin.

Insulin is extremely anabolic and should be taken advantage of at the right times.

Insulin also blocks and reduces cortisol spikes.

Fear the reaper... Not insulin

 

[alphanik]

Everyone needs to stop worrying so much about raising insulin.

Insulin is extremely anabolic and should be taken advantage of at the right times.

Insulin also blocks and reduces cortisol spikes.

Fear the reaper... Not insulin

I couldn't agree more,that's why I supplement maltodextrin and vitargo often when I workout...however I'm not to keen on spiking insulin first thing when I wake up if I'm not gonna workout for another 10 hours...sound reasonable?

 

[Jiigzz]

Everyone needs to stop worrying so much about raising insulin.

Insulin is extremely anabolic and should be taken advantage of at the right times.

Insulin also blocks and reduces cortisol spikes.

Fear the reaper... Not insulin

This.

Insulin secretion is important; it gets a bad rap for storing fat yet this will not occur in a calorie deficit. Also, it helps to attenuate protein breakdown and preserve muscle mass whilst in a deficit.

 

[RecompMan]

Yes, a massive one at that. Thankfully, it's short-lived too.

From all I've read it's in the presence of glucose. Atleast leucine is

 

[Jiigzz]

I couldn't agree more,that's why I supplement maltodextrin and vitargo often when I workout...however I'm not to keen on spiking insulin first thing when I wake up if I'm not gonna workout for another 10 hours...sound reasonable?

You can control the spike by combining insulinogenic foods with fats and/ or proteins. If you do wish to limit insulin spike then consume foods that do not promote insulin secretion.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Everyone needs to stop worrying so much about raising insulin.

Insulin is extremely anabolic and should be taken advantage of at the right times.

Insulin also blocks and reduces cortisol spikes.

Fear the reaper... Not insulin

Well, insulin release is beneficial. Insulin spiking is probably suboptimal for bodybuilders. For instance, data shows that 20g protein adequately maximizes MPS postworkout in an insulin-dependent fashion...adding carbs or whatnot has no further effect on MPS and may contribute to fat gain (along with glycogen restoration, of course).

 

[Clemenza]

Well, insulin release is beneficial. Insulin spiking is probably suboptimal for bodybuilders. For instance, data shows that 20g protein adequately maximizes MPS postworkout in an insulin-dependent fashion...adding carbs or whatnot has no further effect on MPS and may contribute to fat gain (along with glycogen restoration, of course).

I agree. I should reiterate I am not saying its beneficial to suck down 100g dextrose upon waking / post workout.

But like I said I think people should try and take advantage of insulin's anabolic effects and not abuse them or fear them.

 

[JudoJosh]

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/5/2853.long

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jnsv/57/1/57_1_114/_pdf

 

[chedapalooza]

I'm confused... Today I'm not training so I won't be using a pre fasted workout dose of bcca/ea. prior to taking this dose I use one cap of AP ~25 mins before.. Is the insulin rise from aminos inhibiting the fat loss and GH effects of training fasted?

On off days, should I be consuming a serving of amino IV during my fast window (like two - three hours before breaking the fast with food)? I guess when it comes down to it, I feel like since adding in pre workout aminos, my fat loss has halted.

Would appreciate any feedback. Yes I've read many studies.

 

[breezy11]

I'm confused... Today I'm not training so I won't be using a pre fasted workout dose of bcca/ea. prior to taking this dose I use one cap of AP ~25 mins before.. Is the insulin rise from aminos inhibiting the fat loss and GH effects of training fasted?

On off days, should I be consuming a serving of amino IV during my fast window (like two - three hours before breaking the fast with food)? I guess when it comes down to it, I feel like since adding in pre workout aminos, my fat loss has halted.

Would appreciate any feedback. Yes I've read many studies.

Hey ched. If you're in a caloric deficit, I wouldn't worry about pre-workout aminos halting your progress. I'd be more concerned with limiting muscle protein breakdown while training and holding on to as much muscle as possible. You still have the rest of the day to create an environment favorable for fat loss as well.

Here's a quick story . During my last prep, I often trained fasted, my workouts and energy were awful, and I lost more muscle than I would've liked. Throughout my current prep, I've had a pre-workout meal, intra drink, and a well balanced meal about an hour after training. At six weeks out, I'm just as lean, dropping fat at a great pace, my workout intensity and strength haven't slipped whatsoever, and I'm still holding more weight than when I started last prep. The difference has been night and day.

 

[Sean1332]

Breezy, riddle me this. So for me following CBL with a slight caloric surplus, and training midday for the most part and carbs introduced in the evening, where would BCAA/EAAs play an optimal role, if any?

I've also been taking in 5g Leucine pre/intra as well.

 

[chedapalooza]

Breezy, riddle me this. So for me following CBL with a slight caloric surplus, and training midday for the most part and carbs introduced in the evening, where would BCAA/EAAs play an optimal role, if any?

I've also been taking in 5g Leucine pre/intra as well.

Exactly this. I do IF with CBL on a slight surplus. On non training days I condone significantly less carbs. I train any time between 2-5 pm. I usually stop eating around 9-10pm and don't eat until after my workout.. So I feel like the pre workout aminos are important obviously for this reason. I'm wondering if taking bcaa with meals is necessary/beneficial or just overkill.

To your point Sean- I feel like aminos are still necessary to preserve muscle/begin MPS and the carbs from your backload are used to fuel the workout- with total calories on the day being the factor determining fat loss/muscle gain/etc

 

[bolt10]

Breezy, riddle me this. So for me following CBL with a slight caloric surplus, and training midday for the most part and carbs introduced in the evening, where would BCAA/EAAs play an optimal role, if any? I've also been taking in 5g Leucine pre/intra as well.

I'd still argue given type of training and level of training they'd have an impact. Based on your workouts I'd say it would still be beneficial and I know I still do it (and add additional carbs).

 

[Sean1332]

I'd still argue given type of training and level of training they'd have an impact. Based on your workouts I'd say it would still be beneficial and I know I still do it (and add additional carbs).

Thanks for that, Bolt. I'm still contemplating adding some sort of carb, 30gramsish, around the workouts that are way before the backload.

 

[breezy11]

I'm with bolt on the type and level of training being a factor, and that it would be beneficial in your case. I like the idea of adding some carbs to your peri-workout nutrition as well. Not a ton, but enough to support your training. I believe that you'd be able to take advantage of exercise-induced GLUT4 translocation, which should help ensure that the carbs get driven into muscle. You could then limit carbs until the evening.

 

[Sean1332]

That pleases me bigtime lol Thanks, man.

Now I'm on the hunt for carb powders. Woo.

 

[breezy11]

That pleases me bigtime lol Thanks, man.

Now I'm on the hunt for carb powders. Woo.

Lol no problem, Sean. You can use my discount code, if interested.

 

[raekwonse]

Would it be bad to stack BCAAs with alphamine? The insulin response with blunt the yohimbine right?

 

[chedapalooza]

Would it be bad to stack BCAAs with alphamine? The insulin response with blunt the yohimbine right?

Many have said it isn't strong enough.. Hypothetically u take your alphamine 30minutws to an hour pre workout and use your bcaa directly pre or intra, so combining them at the same moment really wouldn't be a frequent occurrence.. But like I said, I was told its no big deal.. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny this

 

[bolt10]

Would it be bad to stack BCAAs with alphamine? The insulin response with blunt the yohimbine right?

Your fine with that during the pre-workout window. Alphamine + Amino IV ftw

 

[cbsharpe]

Your fine with that during the pre-workout window. Alphamine + Amino IV ftw

This is what I do before I workout. Take BCAAs pre workout and Amino IV intra.

 

[ma70]

I always thought there was no need to dose BCAA with Alphamine because Alphamine already has Leucine in it (or some derivative of it), but either way, I am pretty sure the BCAA insulin spike is so short that it doesn't matter and you'll still get the fat burning effects of Yohimbe and it's derivatives (I always dose BCAA with Norco+AT2)

 

[bolt10]

Ya Alphamine has HICA in it. If your taking that and Amino IV I really dnt see a need for any extra BCAAs/Leucine.

 

[kpeaceoutbye]

Yes, a massive one at that. Thankfully, it's short-lived too.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but how short-lived? Is there a general timeframe?

For example, I want to train first thing in the morning but I have to choose between taking BCAAs pre-workout or taking my yohimbine pre-workout. How can I get the effects of both? Take BCAAs, lift for about 30 minutes, then pop the yohimbine? Or the other way around?

 

[ma70]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but how short-lived? Is there a general timeframe?

For example, I want to train first thing in the morning but I have to choose between taking BCAAs pre-workout or taking my yohimbine pre-workout. How can I get the effects of both? Take BCAAs, lift for about 30 minutes, then pop the yohimbine? Or the other way around?

You won't get an answer from him.

It's not a biphasic insulin response. 30 minutes is probably plenty of time between it.

 

[kpeaceoutbye]

You won't get an answer from him.

It's not a biphasic insulin response. 30 minutes is probably plenty of time between it.

Cool. So take BCAAs (along with soy lecithin granules if this is okay), lift for 30 minutes, then I'm good to go to take yohimbine and receive its effects?

Thanks!

 

[Distilled Water]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but how short-lived? Is there a general timeframe?

For example, I want to train first thing in the morning but I have to choose between taking BCAAs pre-workout or taking my yohimbine pre-workout. How can I get the effects of both? Take BCAAs, lift for about 30 minutes, then pop the yohimbine? Or the other way around?

You're over complicating things. Take your yhcl and sip the BCAA during training. Unless you're in single digits body fat wise you won't touch any lean muscle while training.

 

[Lynks8]

I don't think anyone definitively knows if the insulin response from BCAAs will have a measurable impact on Yohimbine's efficacy.

However...

Points in favor of dosing Yohimbine pre-workout/BCAAs:
1. The insulin response from BCAAs is monophasic and thus short-lived (as ma70 already mentioned).
2. Exercise signals the adrenals to release epinephrine, which should significantly blunt the insulin response (assuming your workouts are intense).
3. Having Y in your system prior to exercising is going to be more beneficial than afterwards.

With the above in mind, I dose my Y first thing upon waking. ~15 minutes later I mix up my amino drink and start sipping it as I begin my fasted cardio.

Still, it's hard to say. Hopefully the knowledgeable individuals of this board will continue to contribute on the subject. As a lay-person/outside-observer, I'm not convinced that the aforementioned points conclusively demonstrate that one shouldn't worry about the insulinogenic effect of BCAAs in regards to maximizing Y's efficacy.

 

[kpeaceoutbye]

I don't think anyone definitively knows if the insulin response from BCAAs will have a measurable impact on Yohimbine's efficacy.

However...

Points in favor of dosing Yohimbine pre-workout/BCAAs:
1. The insulin response from BCAAs is monophasic and thus short-lived (as ma70 already mentioned).
2. Exercise signals the adrenals to release epinephrine, which should significantly blunt the insulin response (assuming your workouts are intense).
3. Having Y in your system prior to exercising is going to be more beneficial than afterwards.

With the above in mind, I dose my Y first thing upon waking. ~15 minutes later I mix up my amino drink and start sipping it as I begin my fasted cardio.

Still, it's hard to say. Hopefully the knowledgeable individuals of this board will continue to contribute on the subject. As a lay-person/outside-observer, I'm not convinced that the aforementioned points conclusively demonstrate that one shouldn't worry about the insulinogenic effect of BCAAs in regards to maximizing Y's efficacy.

Great, thanks for this information. It seems like that BCAAs don't have much of an impact and even if so the exercise blunts it.

My biggest concern is having a meal about 4-5 hours before yohimbine; that is, eat a big meal, 4 hours later lift, then an hour into lifting take yohimbine and continue to lift then do cardio.

I'm wondering if this is more effective OR if just taking in the morning fasted with NO cardio after is better.

 

[Lynks8]

Great, thanks for this information. It seems like that BCAAs don't have much of an impact and even if so the exercise blunts it.

My biggest concern is having a meal about 4-5 hours before yohimbine; that is, eat a big meal, 4 hours later lift, then an hour into lifting take yohimbine and continue to lift then do cardio.

I'm wondering if this is more effective OR if just taking in the morning fasted with NO cardio after is better.

Without knowing what said meal is comprised of, or your personal rate of gastric emptying, it's difficult to say. It's my understanding that gastric emptying generally takes 4-6 hours on average, but again, this will vary based on the individual and the type of food.

Here's an example from one study:

That said, from what i've read, the insulin response seems to last ~2-3 hours assuming an average meal in an individual with an average metabolism, so you're probably more than fine if you're waiting ~5 hours, especially if you're taking your Y an hour into lifting, given the epinephrine blockade.

However, I'm assuming you probably eat right after the workout, which wouldn't give the Y much time in your system.

If I were you, I'd do a small dose in the morning on an empty stomach, and then a larger dose ~4 hours after eating, right before you start lifting. Coincidentally, that is essentially my routine.

 

[kpeaceoutbye]

Without knowing what said meal is comprised of, or your personal rate of gastric emptying, it's difficult to say. It's my understanding that gastric emptying generally takes 4-6 hours on average, but again, this will vary based on the individual and the type of food.

Here's an example from one study:
View attachment 137119

That said, from what i've read, the insulin response seems to last ~2-3 hours assuming an average meal in an individual with an average metabolism, so you're probably more than fine if you're waiting ~5 hours, especially if you're taking your Y an hour into lifting, given the epinephrine blockade.

However, I'm assuming you probably eat right after the workout, which wouldn't give the Y much time in your system.

If I were you, I'd do a small dose in the morning on an empty stomach, and then a larger dose ~4 hours after eating, right before you start lifting. Coincidentally, that is essentially my routine.

Thank you so much!!

Basically, my meal is going to be a sufficient amount of protein from chicken (~45g), veggies, a banana, grapes, and some other carby food. So a ton of carbs, moderate protein, and not so much fat usually. It's a large meal so anywhere from 800-1000 calories.

So basically, this would be my schedule: eat big meal @ 2, lift @ 5:30-6, take Y @ 7-7:30, then cardio half hour after that.

Should give me about 5 hours until I even take my Y (1-1.5 hours of that being lifting for epinephrine blockade) which seems like it is good enough.

Thanks for the actual study and an informational response!