Syr
Hot Italian Goldmember
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Isn't this a bit too broad statement?
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lifted
Well-known member
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I think you're getting GH/IGF-1 and AAS mixed up here. IGf-1/GH can accelerate cancer in some but AAS cannot. If I'm totally wrong here, I'll admit it. But I seriously have never heard this before...at least w/o documented proof.
DR.D
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Guys, with all due respect, AS case cancer. Don't be the type to read the papers on you death bed, and think "OH, WOW, HE WAS RIGHT" Pu12en12g, is partly right and you know it's true. Estradiol, progesterone, Anadrol, tren, just to name a few all can be reasonablely anticipated to cause cancer. Don't fool your self, be smart.
lifted
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Honestly, I don't think it's true....that is why I asked twice.
AAS cannot while IGF-1/GH can. If you still disagree, can you please show me some links? Cause I seriously can't find any literature that expands on this. The main reason I want to know for sure is that prostate cancer "kinda" runs in my family, I wanna know if I need to be expecting a surprise down the road. If so, I'd prefer to get checked on a regular basis. But if you have no backing fo your claims then, I can't take you seriously...no disrespect...I'm just kinda worried now.
DR.D
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Sorry brother, I thought I had developed a more honest rep around here by now. I truely beleive that one day I will stand before Jesus Christ and give an explaination for every word and deed that came from my mouth. I have a stack of books to to top of the roof, I've use dozens of AS steroids in every possible, stupid ass combo you can imagine, and I just have a "feel" for what's toxic, it would take way too long to explain, trust me if you will or find out for your self, but I love you and God bless you. Beleive me, I would not intentionally deceive you friend.Honestly, I don't think it's true....that is why I asked twice.
lifted
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So you're just going by what you "feel"? That just doesn't cut it man. If you would try to explain, I'm sure I could follow along.
I'm not as lay as I seem. I understand that you like to err on the side of caution...I'm the exact same way. But if all you can give me is that you feel this ( I don't even know if that's possible), then I'm going to err on the side of caution and not take any proven advice otherwise.
Again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but for something as serious as this (could be) I'm not willing to listen to a guy on a message board w/o any published findings. But now, I will be popping saw palmetto like there's no tomorrow.
And just for the record, even though you're a god follower, I don't trust anybody but myself. And that's the way it will always be.
pu12en12g
CONTROLLED LABS CONSULTANT
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Lifted,
Remember the emphasis is on ACCELERATE... not cause cancer out of nowhere. At least that is my understanding, that AAS would only accelerate a pre-existing condition.
Remember the emphasis is on ACCELERATE... not cause cancer out of nowhere. At least that is my understanding, that AAS would only accelerate a pre-existing condition.
DR.D
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Yes, you are very right about that, Pu12en12g . Many sex hormones promote pre-existing cancers, the ones I listed earlier (and probably dozens more). If you study the 9'th report on Carcinogens (PB2000-107509,2000) so many are listed as carcinogenic to humans. Not just synthetic steroids like anadrol, but natural hormones like estradiol! So dwell in your ignorant bliss if you like, Mr. Lifted, but I'd rather open my eyes to the truth, which it is. I'm starting to really not give a **** about you anymore fella, I try to help you and you throw it in my face?! Learn it the hard if you must, but don't say I didn't warn you. And I'm not just some guy on a board. I challange any "expert" you want to bring. I'll make you both look very stupid if you force me to flex on this issue. I have years of experience and education too, but my "feel" is my greatest asset, because the Spirit of God guides me. You should look for him too, and you won't need to feel so dumb writing me letters from the hospital one day.
SJA
dead sexy wino
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GEEZ double D....you certainly are getting the smackdown from the kids in here
:icon_lol: :lol: :rofl:
:icon_lol: :lol: :rofl:
Neuromancer
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DR.D
Well-known member
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Your gonna make me cry if you keep on with all that nice talk, you guys are soooo sweet....Yes, you suck Dr. D...
lifted
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What,?? shut up man. You're a joke. I can't believe that people follow you when this board is based on science and all your giving is a feel....lmao. That just shows there own stupidity.
Bro, I remember when you first came here as I've been a lurker here since this site went up back in 02. You're just as clueless then as you are now....lol. I bet you aren't even a real doc. If so, why don't you prive it homes.....yeah, prove it.
Oh, and btw, I REALLY, HIGHLY, doubt that your old ass would call me a punk in person...lmao. I'd break you in half. But I'll let you feel cool in front of all your internet friends. This really shows your true immature personality since I repeated twice that I wasn't be disrespectful and only asking for back-up of your claims since I was extra interested in the topic. But you resort to name calling and the like/././classic.
I used to send sledge at least $100/month on a regualr basis, but now since your so full of oyurself and resort to bashing when you're wrong, thanks to you, sledge won't be seeing ANY deniro ever gain from myself. I hope he'll get to thank you in person...
OH yeah, does anybody else notice that when DR. D gets backied into a corner about a topic, (since he thinks he knows everything) he ALWAYS changes the subject and starts talking about god? LMAO...yeah that's a cool way to try and make people quit pickin on ya, old man...lmao.
seeya in hell Dr. D...lmao!!
Alpha Dog
Obese Member
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Dr. D, lifted, you guys have both been of great help to me and others on this board. Please try to bury the hatchet. If you feel that the other person is being insulting, elevate yourslef above it! Afterall, take example from the AM motto above....learn, teach, lead
Ironic that I have posted this study twice now in the last 24 hrs. Anyway, vhe study directly relates to prostate cancer. It concludes that by both limitinig androgen receptor transcription and taking an anti-androgen could benefit prostate cancer. Thus, you can extrapoalte from this study that anything that activates the AR is not going to be benefial when trying to avoid prostate cancer.
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ROCHESTER, N.Y.--Researchers from the University of Rochester reported they may know how vitamin E may benefit prostate cancer in a study that appears in the May 28 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (99, 11:7408-13, 2002).
Using vitamin E in the form of alpha-tocopheryl succinate, researchers found that the nutrient suppressed the expression of prostate-specific antigen, a marker for the progression of prostate cancer. They also found that vitamin E suppresses androgen receptor expression through transcriptional (reducing the amount of messenger RNA available to androgen receptor expression) and post-transcriptional modulation (directly impacting androgen receptor expression).
In terms of cell growth, vitamin E inhibited the growth of the prostate cancer cells, LNCaP. Comparatively, the pharmaceutical anti-androgen--hydroxyflutamide--commonly used in prostate cancer patients was shown to only slightly inhibit the growth of LNCaP cells. The researchers noted that, interestingly, simultaneous administration of the drug with vitamin E resulted in a more significant inhibitory effect on LNCaP cell growth.
The study's authors reported this finding may help establish new therapies in preventing and treating prostate cancer. "As we have found that vitamin E reduced the amount of androgen receptor, a key factor for the progression of prostate cancer, this could be the base to concert different therapy strategies," said Shuyuan Yeh, a study author and an assistant professor in the department of urology and pathology at the university. "For example, anti-androgen will prevent androgen's bind on androgen receptor and vitamin E would reduce the amount of androgen receptor. The combination of anti-androgen and vitamin E would possibly elicit better therapy effects.
Ironic that I have posted this study twice now in the last 24 hrs. Anyway, vhe study directly relates to prostate cancer. It concludes that by both limitinig androgen receptor transcription and taking an anti-androgen could benefit prostate cancer. Thus, you can extrapoalte from this study that anything that activates the AR is not going to be benefial when trying to avoid prostate cancer.
.........................................................................................................................................................................
ROCHESTER, N.Y.--Researchers from the University of Rochester reported they may know how vitamin E may benefit prostate cancer in a study that appears in the May 28 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (99, 11:7408-13, 2002).
Using vitamin E in the form of alpha-tocopheryl succinate, researchers found that the nutrient suppressed the expression of prostate-specific antigen, a marker for the progression of prostate cancer. They also found that vitamin E suppresses androgen receptor expression through transcriptional (reducing the amount of messenger RNA available to androgen receptor expression) and post-transcriptional modulation (directly impacting androgen receptor expression).
In terms of cell growth, vitamin E inhibited the growth of the prostate cancer cells, LNCaP. Comparatively, the pharmaceutical anti-androgen--hydroxyflutamide--commonly used in prostate cancer patients was shown to only slightly inhibit the growth of LNCaP cells. The researchers noted that, interestingly, simultaneous administration of the drug with vitamin E resulted in a more significant inhibitory effect on LNCaP cell growth.
The study's authors reported this finding may help establish new therapies in preventing and treating prostate cancer. "As we have found that vitamin E reduced the amount of androgen receptor, a key factor for the progression of prostate cancer, this could be the base to concert different therapy strategies," said Shuyuan Yeh, a study author and an assistant professor in the department of urology and pathology at the university. "For example, anti-androgen will prevent androgen's bind on androgen receptor and vitamin E would reduce the amount of androgen receptor. The combination of anti-androgen and vitamin E would possibly elicit better therapy effects.
lifted
Well-known member
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Finally!! Thank you bow, that's all i wanted to see. And now I can admit that I'm wrong. However, I've actually seen these studies before. And I know that exposing the prostate to supraphysiological amounts of androgens DOES have some effect on the cancer cells, but HOW or WHY still isn't known,...and that's what I really wanted/needed to know. Guess I should've expanded on that a bit more, eh?Dr. D, lifted, you guys have both been of great help to me and others on this board. Please try to bury the hatchet. If you feel that the other person is being insulting, elevate yourslef above it! Afterall, take example from the AM motto above....learn, teach, lead
Ironic that I have posted this study twice now in the last 24 hrs. Anyway, the study directly relates to prostate cancer. It concludes that by both limitinig androgen receptor transcription and taking an anti-androgen could benefit prostate cancer. Thus, you can extrapoalte from this study that anything that activates the AR is not going to be benefial when trying to avoid prostate cancer.
.........................................................................................................................................................................
ROCHESTER, N.Y.--Researchers from the University of Rochester reported they may know how vitamin E may benefit prostate cancer in a study that appears in the May 28 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (99, 11:7408-13, 2002).
Using vitamin E in the form of alpha-tocopheryl succinate, researchers found that the nutrient suppressed the expression of prostate-specific antigen, a marker for the progression of prostate cancer. They also found that vitamin E suppresses androgen receptor expression through transcriptional (reducing the amount of messenger RNA available to androgen receptor expression) and post-transcriptional modulation (directly impacting androgen receptor expression).
In terms of cell growth, vitamin E inhibited the growth of the prostate cancer cells, LNCaP. Comparatively, the pharmaceutical anti-androgen--hydroxyflutamide--commonly used in prostate cancer patients was shown to only slightly inhibit the growth of LNCaP cells. The researchers noted that, interestingly, simultaneous administration of the drug with vitamin E resulted in a more significant inhibitory effect on LNCaP cell growth.
The study's authors reported this finding may help establish new therapies in preventing and treating prostate cancer. "As we have found that vitamin E reduced the amount of androgen receptor, a key factor for the progression of prostate cancer, this could be the base to concert different therapy strategies," said Shuyuan Yeh, a study author and an assistant professor in the department of urology and pathology at the university. "For example, anti-androgen will prevent androgen's bind on androgen receptor and vitamin E would reduce the amount of androgen receptor. The combination of anti-androgen and vitamin E would possibly elicit better therapy effects.
So if you REALLY want to get technical (which I like to do) this still doesn't prove that AAS can speed up cancer cells in the prostate. Only by reverse clinical trials if you will, this *hypothesis* still isn't proven yet, but OTOH, it looks as though it probably is correct due to the opposite effect (taking androgen away from prostate) is beneficial to treating cancer.
lifted
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edited last post.
Alpha Dog
Obese Member
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Agreed. That's why indicated that if you "extrapolated" from the study, you could make the presumption.
lifted, being that you may be genetically predisposed to prostate cancer, are you taking vitamin E?
DR.D
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That's really cruel of you bro. Nevertheless, I do believe in Christ and am not ashamed to say it. I am so busy these days that I just don't have time to give you ref's right now. But just for the record, you would not be breaking **** in half if you and my 'old ass' (33) went toe to toe. I'd humble you proper like, help you up, wipe off your blood and give you a big hug. Then maybe I'd have gained a friend. My father was my high school and middle principal, so if it's one thing I can do well, I can fight like nobody you've ever known. Anyway, forgive me for offending you and I will stay away from you in the future. I don't think I deserved all that you said though.
lifted
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Yeah, okay toughguy....
You started with the attacks and continued to call me a *punk*. When all I was trying to do was get some more info. Along with saying *twice* that I was not being disrespectful. Yet you still continued to try and make me out to be a "punk as kid". Yeah, that's real mature for a 33 yr. old. I have 16 yr. old cousins that are much more mature than you.
And just so you know, just because you have a good "rep" at a forum on the internet, doesn't give you the right to not back up your claims...which you still haven't done btw.
I still don't like you, so I'll just continue to ignore....end of discussion.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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THat is completely uncalled for.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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You both are to blame. What a sad thread. Take that kind of **** somewhere else.
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