Do you stand for the National Anthem?

[muscleupcrohn]

You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans don’t take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didn’t take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties don’t take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans don’t take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, “one nation, under God, indivisible.” Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

Those who kneel can’t have it both ways. They can’t seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesn’t mean these actions should be applauded.

If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change people’s minds and attitudes.

The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.

I’d say I see it in a way that I’m trying to DEpeogram myself. I think someone has every right to kneel during the anthem on their own time (not at work) and I don’t care if they do or don’t, it’s just that as a whole, employees don’t have a right to do it against their employer’s wishes at work (federal law, as state laws may differ). It’s not so much a political/patriotic issue for me as it is a legal one, and we’re having some good conversation about if it’s legal or not in this particular instance.

 

[Yomo]

It’s unlikely. If that were the case the president could essentially tell employers to do something and essentially force them to be unable to do it, which would be an insanely dangerous precedent to set.

Can you at least concede that the First Amendment doesn’t protect political speech at work if it’s against your employer’s wishes? Putting aside POTUS’ involvement of course?

yea...you cant just dismiss 45's involvement...it doesn't really work like that...

...just like you can't dismiss the fact that NFL owners know they can't just fire NFL players for kneeling, albeit having the ability to do, regardless of them protesting while on the clock, because the owners themselves don't fill the stadium seats...

 

[Aleksandar37]

You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans don’t take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didn’t take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties don’t take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans don’t take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, “one nation, under God, indivisible.” Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

Those who kneel can’t have it both ways. They can’t seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesn’t mean these actions should be applauded.

If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change people’s minds and attitudes.

The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.

We get your point of view; we just don't agree with it. First, you go off on this entire thing about first responders doing their job without regards for race which is complete bull**** and one of the main points of the protest you're talking about. I grew up south side of Chicago and I'm white, so yes, I could rely on the cops. I had friends that couldn't and some that would never call the police.

And you keep talking about military, but you're ignoring the one in this very thread. Everything you say makes me believe that you have no true pride in standing and are just parroting and going through the motions.

We all hear your point and took the time to read and understand your post. Apparently, you were expecting everybody here to be a robot too and be like **** those who won't stand. You want citizens of this nation to be forced to stand and mindlessly sing a song. That is what you're asking to be done. That doesn't sound like America to me.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

yea...you cant just dismiss 45's involvement...it doesn't really work like that...

...just like you can't dismiss the fact that NFL owners know they can't just fire NFL players for kneeling, albeit having the ability to do, regardless of them protesting while on the clock, because the owners themselves don't fill the stadium seats...

You’re confusing all sorts of motives and legalities now...

Owners are not not firing players for kneeling because they don’t have the legal grounds to, but, as you said, because it probably wouldn’t be a good economic decision, as you don’t want to go THAT far to alienate any significant portion of your customer base.

Are you even keeping up with the discussion? We’re not even sure if what Trump said actually violates the letter of the law or just the spirit of it.

That is why I asked if you will admit that, had Trump not given his inappropriate two cents, would the owners have a right to prohibit political protests/speech at work? If you say no, I say that you need to reread the First Amendment. If you say yes, then we can move on, accepting that premise, and attempt to determine if what Trump did violates the letter of the law or just the spirit.

One step at a time.

 

[Yomo]

You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans don’t take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didn’t take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties don’t take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans don’t take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, “one nation, under God, indivisible.” Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

Those who kneel can’t have it both ways. They can’t seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesn’t mean these actions should be applauded.

If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change people’s minds and attitudes.

The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.

...have you served in either the military or Law Enforcement, or have been directly involved with the loss of a First Responder?


Because I can claim both, while understanding that protesting during the raising of a flag and the singing of a song in order to bring attention to a very real issue on a national level, on a national stage, defines the very right that all of those lives lost represent...and in the same breath, recognize that not everyone will agree.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

...have you served in either the military or Law Enforcement, or have been directly involved with the loss of a First Responder?


Because I can claim both, while understanding that protesting during the raising of a flag and the singing of a song in order to bring attention to a very real issue on a national level, on a national stage, defines the very right that all of those lives lost represent...and in the same breath, recognize that not everyone will agree.

Again, there is no inherent right to protest on a national stage when said stage is your place of work when you’re on the clock if it’s against your employer’s wishes.

Trump may have gone and ****ed it up for the owners by getting involved, but employees have no right to freedom of speech at work on a federal level. That is my sole point.

 

[Yomo]

You’re confusing all sorts of motives and legalities now...

Owners are not not firing players for kneeling because they don’t have the legal grounds to, but, as you said, because it probably wouldn’t be a good economic decision, as you don’t want to go THAT far to alienate any significant portion of your customer base.

Are you even keeping up with the discussion? We’re not even sure if what Trump said actually violates the letter of the law or just the spirit of it.

That is why I asked if you will admit that, had Trump not given his inappropriate two cents, would the owners have a right to prohibit political protests/speech at work? If you say no, I say that you need to reread the First Amendment. If you say yes, then we can move on, accepting that premise, and attempt to determine if what Trump did violates the letter of the law or just the spirit.

One step at a time.

there is absolutely no confusion, other than your own....

I simply stated, our day to day jobs can't compare to the NFL...if I got fired for protesting on the clock, my employer would simply fill my spot...it doesn't work like that in the NFL...not sure how you don't understand this.

my freedom of speech referenced his disapproval of protests of any kind during the Anthem...I never claimed legality of anything, until after you misinterpreted my post, claiming I stated First Amendment rights were being violated, which I never did, simply stated 45s influence in the matter...re read my original post.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

there is absolutely no confusion, other than your own....

I simply stated, our day to day jobs can't compare to the NFL...if I got fired for protesting on the clock, my employer would simply fill my spot...it doesn't work like that in the NFL...not sure how you don't understand this.

my freedom of speech referenced his disapproval of protests of any kind during the Anthem...I never claimed legality of anything, until after you misinterpreted my post, claiming I stated First Amendment rights were being violated, which I never did, simply stated 45s influence in the matter...re read my original post.

That is supply and demand, an economic principle, not a legal one my friend. I’m only concerned with the legal basis. I agree with your economic reference and points.

If you’re not claiming that NFL players have a First Amendment right to political speech at work, then I have no real qualms or disagreements with you.

If I misunderstood something before, I apologize. No hard feelings.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Again, there is no inherent right to protest on a national stage when said stage is your place of work when you’re on the clock if it’s against your employer’s wishes.

Trump may have gone and ****ed it up for the owners by getting involved, but employees have no right to freedom of speech at work on a federal level. That is my sole point.

We're all in agreement on what the first amendment says. Reality is much more complicated than that.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

We're all in agreement on what the first amendment says. Reality is much more complicated than that.

You’d be surprised what some people think it means. Some people legitimately think it means you can say whatever you want whenever and wherever you want and not be penalized for it, which is insane.

If I work at CVS, I can’t tell everyone who buys condoms that premarital sex is a sin and expect to keep my job haha. It’s an extreme example, sure, but it illustrates that free speech is no unlimited, and really, on a federal level, pertains only to penalty from the government, not private individuals/companies. As you said, state laws may change things though, and Trump getting involved was stupid and may muddy the legal waters.

 

[Aleksandar37]

You’d be surprised what some people think it means. Some people legitimately think it means you can say whatever you want whenever and wherever you want and not be penalized for it, which is insane.

If I work at CVS, I can’t tell everyone who buys condoms that premarital sex is a sin and expect to keep my job haha. It’s an extreme example, sure, but it illustrates that free speech is no unlimited, and really, on a federal level, pertains only to penalty from the government, not private individuals/companies. As you said, state laws may change things though, and Trump getting involved was stupid and may muddy the legal waters.

Why are you repeating back to me the same things I said in this thread lol? We're on the same page.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Why are you repeating back to me the same things I said in this thread lol? We're on the same page.

My bad. I may have confused you with the other guy, as I don’t really know what he’s trying to say yet, as he keeps bringing up the supply and demand / economic perspective of it, which is not what any of us have been discussing.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans don’t take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didn’t take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties don’t take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans don’t take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, “one nation, under God, indivisible.” Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

Those who kneel can’t have it both ways. They can’t seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesn’t mean these actions should be applauded.

If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change people’s minds and attitudes.

The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.

Actually your job as an American Citizen is to obey the Constitution, and under the 2nd Amendment to bear arms so that at anytime you are needed to take up arms against US enemies to include your own tyrannist government if so needed. The US military can not act on its own soil. Only the Coast Gaurd which actually falls under the Department of Homeland Security and not the Department of Defense can act on US Soil. Therefore, all Americans whether you chose to or not is required to act as a militia and protect our Country.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans don’t take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didn’t take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties don’t take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans don’t take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, “one nation, under God, indivisible.” Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

Those who kneel can’t have it both ways. They can’t seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesn’t mean these actions should be applauded.

If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change people’s minds and attitudes.

The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.

Every opinion you just expressed stems from the idea that kneeling during the national anthem is disrespecting the flag. I wonder, can you imagine how kneeling during the anthem for a pwerful cause might be in service of the flag?

 

[rascal14]

People destroying Nike gear are full blown retards. You've already given them your money, they couldn't care less whether you actually wear it anymore. You'll just go buy more when you get over your tantrum.

I also didn't realize people stood for the national anthem at home. That is very peculiar to me. Lol

I stand for the most part, but rarely put my hand over my heart, and if I'm tired I stay seated. I don't need to stand attention to prove to anyone that I love America or the troops. Kneel, stand, sit down, whatever. I don't see kneeling as disrespectful at all, they have an opinion and they can do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone around them.

As far as the whole NFL thing goes, you have to follow rules at work whether you want to or not. If you want to protest it, don't be on the field. It literally will make no difference either way.

I went to a baseball game the other day and was mindblown when people stood and put their hands over their hearts for God Bless America, and I got strange looks for saying I wasn't going to do that. Since when is that a thing? Lol we are living in bizzaro world now.

 

[ax1]

I absolutely stand to the flag during the Anthem....it is my home, my country and that flag belongs to me in any image I want the flag to be. You dont have to love your government to love your home, and when people are in your home you at least want the same common respect as you would in their home.

As far as Gaypernick, that dude worked for a private company and when you hurt the product you hurt other peoples livelihoods...not just NFL players but all the way down to the people making a living taking care of the stadium. Gaypernick has the right to kneel, and I support that right but the owners of the NFL should have every right to bury his azz if he is hurting their business while the employee is on the clock.

 

[ax1]

You are not looking deep enough into this. People died because they defended this flag. It isnt about justice or police brutality. The flag represents the men and women who came before us to be patriotic and serve in our military willing to die for it. Only a buffoon would think it was ok to choose to kneel when we should stand with a hand over our heart respecting the flag during its national anthem and also showing respect to those who DIED for us to have the freedom to STAND on Sundays watching football and being AMERICANS. They also served so people could be pro athletes. If those pro athletes were not free they wouldn’t be able to be on that field!!! Stand and show some ****ing respect!

I think whats more important than the people dying to defend the flag is that people died to defend their right to protest under that flag. They didnt die to defend the freedom to stand, but the freedom to stand, kneel, shyt, light on fire, whatever they want as long as these people arent infringing on the liberties of others while not putting limits to their own decisions of thoughts and actions which is what the flag is really supposed to represent. And thanks to all the troops for that!

 

[rascal14]

If people actually had half a brain, they would be donating their Nike gear to the homeless and poor veterans that they love oh so much, instead of destroying it.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

If people actually had half a brain, they would be donating their Nike gear to the homeless and poor veterans that they love oh so much, instead of destroying it.

I've seen some people with at least half a brain recommending this, and it makes sense, and it's an action indicative of an actual good citizen, not just someone who claims to be one. I have several pieces of Nike clothing, shoes, etc, and I certainly won't be burning them, but I probably won't be buying more in the near future, unless they go on sale haha.

I do get what Kaepernick (spelling?) protested about, and he brings up some legitimate points that should be addressed and we should attempt to remedy, but he's just not exactly the best face for social justice IMO. Does no one remember the Castro shirt he wore IN MIAMI, where so many people, of multiple generations, fled Cuba and Castro's dictatorship and cruelty? It was just beyond tone-deaf, and also really undermined his whole message. He wont' stand for the US anthem because of corrupt/racist police officers, but he'll wear a shirt with Castro on it? Castro, who is irrefutably worse and more corrupt than the US is today.

From Florida Reporter George Diaz, whose family fled Cuba under Castro:

There is no question that racial inequality needs to be a topic of conversation in the United States. But that gets us back to Cuba, where such conversations can get you in prison.

My family left there in 1961. We left our home, our furniture, most of valuables and our relatives behind because we were seeking freedom. It wasn’t for money, nor the opportunity to visit Disney and Universal.

We wanted to be free, and the United States, bless its soul, gave us that opportunity.

So yes, I find it personally insulting that Kaepernick is oblivious to the fact that Castro is one of the most vile dictators of modern times with extensive human rights violations.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Stand. Every. ****ing. Time.

Thanks Comrade! Just kidding, but as someone who comes from a family of vets, no one who knew why Colin was kneeling (protesting racism and unchecked police brutality) would think this is disrespectful to troops... Troops who are fighting with the intent of protecting right like free speech and peaceful protesting.

So yeah I think anyone who was not distracted by Trump "misdirection play" here knows this was a valid use of 1A and peaceful protesting. And I'm a life long conservative, before Trump ever came

Just saying...

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Thanks Comrade! Just kidding, but as someone who comes from a family of vets, no one who knew why Colin was kneeling (protesting racism and unchecked police brutality) would think this is disrespectful to troops... Troops who are fighting with the intent of protecting right like free speech and peaceful protesting.

So yeah I think anyone who was not distracted by Trump "misdirection play" here knows this was a valid use of 1A and peaceful protesting. And I'm a life long conservative, before Trump ever came

Just saying...

No, it is not. On a federal level, employees have no legal right to free speech at work, or, more accurately, freedom from repercussion (from their employers) from political speech/protests at work against the employer's wishes. The First Amendment protects people's right to free speech from THE GOVERNMENT, not from private employers. So what Trump did was out of line, and if he acted on it it'd be undoubtedly illegal, but a private employer has the right to penalize or prohibit political speech at work. This may vary depending on state laws, but the federal laws is relatively clear on this matter, and has been confirmed in numerous cases, including some where employees were fired for much less divisive and public political protests/statements. Have you even read the First Amendment?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I've seen some people with at least half a brain recommending this, and it makes sense, and it's an action indicative of an actual good citizen, not just someone who claims to be one. I have several pieces of Nike clothing, shoes, etc, and I certainly won't be burning them, but I probably won't be buying more in the near future, unless they go on sale haha.

I do get what Kaepernick (spelling?) protested about, and he brings up some legitimate points that should be addressed and we should attempt to remedy, but he's just not exactly the best face for social justice IMO. Does no one remember the Castro shirt he wore IN MIAMI, where so many people, of multiple generations, fled Cuba and Castro's dictatorship and cruelty? It was just beyond tone-deaf, and also really undermined his whole message. He wont' stand for the US anthem because of corrupt/racist police officers, but he'll wear a shirt with Castro on it? Castro, who is irrefutably worse and more corrupt than the US is today.

From Florida Reporter George Diaz, whose family fled Cuba under Castro:

Courtesy of Human Rights Watch, regarding Castro, who Kaepernick praised and defended:

During his nearly five decades of rule in Cuba, Fidel Castro built a repressive system that punished virtually all forms of dissent, a dark legacy that lives on even after his death...

Many of the abusive tactics developed during his time in power – including surveillance, beatings, arbitrary detention, and public acts of repudiation – are still used by the Cuban government...

The denial of fundamental freedoms throughout Castro’s decades in power was unrelenting, and marked by periods of heightened repression, such as the 2003 crackdown on 75 human rights defenders, journalists, trade unionists, and other critics of the government. Accused of being “mercenaries” of the United States government, the individuals were summarily tried in closed hearings. Many served years in inhumane prisons, where they were subjected to extended solitary confinement and beatings, and denied basic medical care for serious ailments...

Under Fidel Castro, the Cuban government refused to recognize the legitimacy of Cuban human rights organizations, alternative political parties, independent labor unions, or a free press. He also denied international monitors such as the International Committee of the Red Cross and international nongovernmental organizations like Human Rights Watch access to the island to investigate human rights conditions.

Yes, that's so much better than what anyone in the US does, right? He undermined his entire platform when he praised and defended Castro.

 

[rascal14]

I've seen some people with at least half a brain recommending this, and it makes sense, and it's an action indicative of an actual good citizen, not just someone who claims to be one. I have several pieces of Nike clothing, shoes, etc, and I certainly won't be burning them, but I probably won't be buying more in the near future, unless they go on sale haha.

I do get what Kaepernick (spelling?) protested about, and he brings up some legitimate points that should be addressed and we should attempt to remedy, but he's just not exactly the best face for social justice IMO. Does no one remember the Castro shirt he wore IN MIAMI, where so many people, of multiple generations, fled Cuba and Castro's dictatorship and cruelty? It was just beyond tone-deaf, and also really undermined his whole message. He wont' stand for the US anthem because of corrupt/racist police officers, but he'll wear a shirt with Castro on it? Castro, who is irrefutably worse and more corrupt than the US is today.

From Florida Reporter George Diaz, whose family fled Cuba under Castro:

I didn't know anything about him doing that, I can see how people could disagree with him for that. But, I think most people who hate him probably don't even know he did that or would understand what it actually meant.

I probably won't go out of my way to buy Nike either, but that is just because I don't care to spend that much money for clothes. Lol

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

No, it is not. On a federal level, employees have no legal right to free speech at work, or, more accurately, freedom from repercussion (from their employers) from political speech/protests at work against the employer's wishes. The First Amendment protects people's right to free speech from THE GOVERNMENT, not from private employers. So what Trump did was out of line, and if he acted on it it'd be undoubtedly illegal, but a private employer has the right to penalize or prohibit political speech at work. This may vary depending on state laws, but the federal laws is relatively clear on this matter, and has been confirmed in numerous cases, including some where employees were fired for much less divisive and public political protests/statements. Have you even read the First Amendment?

Yep and I disagree wholeheartedly with your interpretation of the power of private corporations to limit free speech. They can attempt to discharge the employee, but that's about it.

And i know federal employees, having been one twice... Have volunteered to limit their free speech for period of time. Your point there? Most vets who fight for free speech would support this type of protest, or prayer?

Hit a nerve, I see.. it's crazy to see so many people misinterpret a peaceful protest.

How about a picture of Tim Tebow... Since when was kneeling a disprectful thing?

((Hint when he became black and saying something political))

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I didn't know anything about him doing that, I can see how people could disagree with him for that. But, I think most people who hate him probably don't even know he did that or would understand what it actually meant.

I probably won't go out of my way to buy Nike either, but that is just because I don't care to spend that much money for clothes. Lol

I try to be consistent haha. I try not to form opinions without doing research, and sometimes I’m not always right at first haha.

That whole Castro deal just really soured me to Kaepernick, as Castro was far worse than any USPD, and he actually defended him IN MIAMI TO CUBANS. It’s just really inconsistent with his message of equality, justice, and anti-corruption.

Also, I think that the NFL players who are convicted domestic abusers should be the ones people hate more than people who protest. Beating a woman is way more un-American than kneeling for the anthem. But not many people are upset about the many domestic abusers still playing.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Defending Castro to Cubans because he improved education (while stepping on basic liberty and freedom, jailing people without cause, beating them, etc.) is almost analogous to defending slavery to an African American by telling them that it helped America become a successful country. It’s offensive, tone-deaf, and trying to justify heinous crimes/actions that cannot be justified.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yep and I disagree wholeheartedly with your interpretation of the power of private corporations to limit free speech. They can attempt to discharge the employee, but that's about it.

And i know federal employees, having been one twice... Have volunteered to limit their free speech for period of time. Your point there? Most vets who fight for free speech would support this type of protest, or prayer?

Hit a nerve, I see.. it's crazy to see so many people misinterpret a peaceful protest.

How about a picture of Tim Tebow... Since when was kneeling a disprectful thing?

((Hint when he became black and saying something political))

Post your legal support man. I posted an article by the American Bar Association that said in no uncertain terms that private employers have a right to silence and/or penalize political speech by their employees. I’m not talking about federal employees, I’m talking about federal LAW. Federal employees are employed by the government, and therefore do have more freedom of speech in the workplace than private employees do. Tebow’s kneeling wasn’t a political statement, so it’s not really relevant here, as the topic of conversation is POLITICAL SPEECH AT SORK AGAINST AN EMPLOYER’S WISHES. You may as well bring up players kneeling when someone is injured, as it’s just as irrelevant, but you had to take a shot at a white Christian and make it about race, right? I’m talking from a LEGAL perspective, and never even said I disagreed with the message behind the protests. But I’m a racist, right?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Really, if you haven't read this article, do read it.
https://www.americanbar.org/publications/insights_on_law_andsociety/15/winter-2015/chill-around-the-water-cooler.html

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Post your legal support man. I posted an article by the American Bar Association that said in no uncertain terms that private employers have a right to silence and/or penalize political speech by their employees. I’m not talking about federal employees, I’m talking about federal LAW. Federal employees are employed by the government, and therefore do have more freedom of speech in the workplace than private employees do. Tebow’s kneeling wasn’t a political statement, so it’s not really relevant here, as the topic of conversation is POLITICAL SPEECH AT SORK AGAINST AN EMPLOYER’S WISHES. You may as well bring up players kneeling when someone is injured, as it’s just as irrelevant, but you had to take a shot at a white Christian and make it about race, right? I’m talking from a LEGAL perspective, and never even said I disagreed with the message behind the protests. But I’m a racist, right?

Why is one kneel political the other not? How do you determine the intent of the kneel?

I'll post when I get time and never said you are a racist? Everyone on the internet so defensive...

And just for reference the 1A covers political and religious speech... Granted Congress is not making a law here, but NFL takes public money... So yeah...

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Why is one kneel political the other not? How do you determine the intent of the kneel?

I'll post when I get time and never said you are a racist? Everyone on the internet so defensive...

And just for reference the 1A covers political and religious speech... Granted Congress is not making a law here, but NFL takes public money... So yeah...

Because one is during a political activity (the anthem). And given that the anthem itself is inherently political, I do think that players should have the right to abstain from participating in it by staying in the locker room, but they don't have a right to engage in a counter-political-activity during it. The new policy is a win-win really. Kaepernick aslo explicitly stated that his was political. Perahps more importantly, it comes down to if the employer opposes it. If the owner is ok with Kaepernick kneeling, then there's no issue. The same goes for Tebow. An employer may be a Democrat and allow pro-Democrat comments at work, but not allow pro-Republican comments. It's not that no political speech is allowed at private workplaces, it's that the employer can essentially decide what political speech is and isn't allowed.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't get into the technical nuances of taking money from the public, or the impact of Trump's statements, and even actual lawyers disagree on the impact of said statements, but, AS A GENERAL RULE, there is no FEDERAL protection to FREEDOM OF SPEECH AT WORK FOR A PRIVATE COMPANY regarding ramifications from the employer.

 

[ax1]

Why is one kneel political the other not? How do you determine the intent of the kneel?

I'll post when I get time and never said you are a racist? Everyone on the internet so defensive...

And just for reference the 1A covers political and religious speech... Granted Congress is not making a law here, but NFL takes public money... So yeah...

Tebow was praying, he is very religious and its something he does on a personal level. Kapernick was trying to bring attention to a political cause to the public by making a statement during a patriotic moment. You really cant see the difference there?

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Tebow was praying, he is very religious and its something he does on a personal level. Kapernick was trying to bring attention to a political cause to the public by making a statement during a patriotic moment. You really cant see the difference there?

I can see the difference, but both are protected forms of speech/expression (political and religious). Capernick already lost his job, since it's not illegal for a private company to fire him for it.

The point is a whole lot of white folks are burning their Nike's (despite the fact Nike already has their cash) because they errantly think his political kneel was disrespectful to troops and therefore allowing Capernick to be sponsored is a shot at the troops or anti patriotic somehow.

The whole thing is sad really. How issues get twisted and hijacked anymore.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I can see the difference, but both are protected forms of speech/expression (political and religious). Capernick already lost his job, since it's not illegal for a private company to fire him for it.

The point is a whole lot of white folks are burning their Nike's (despite the fact Nike already has their cash) because they errantly think his political kneel was disrespectful to troops and therefore allowing Capernick to be sponsored is a shot at the troops or anti patriotic somehow.

The whole thing is sad really. How issues get twisted and hijacked anymore.

Yeah, protected from the government. But you did concede that the private company could penalize him for it, so I guess I don't even have any disagreement with you haha. But wasn't his contract just not renewed? I don't recall him actually being fired. The lawsuit in progress I think claims the teams colluded to keep him out of the league by not re-hiring him with a new contract.

I still think Kaepernick's Castro thing in Miami of all places really was a bad look and undermined a lot of what he claims to stand for though, but we all make mistakes. Unfortunately he seemed to double down on it, and I don't recall him apologizing or saying he was wrong since.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Yeah, protected from the government. But you did concede that the private company could penalize him for it, so I guess I don't even have any disagreement with you haha. But wasn't his contract just not renewed? I don't recall him actually being fired. The lawsuit in progress I think claims the teams colluded to keep him out of the league by not re-hiring him with a new contract.

I still think Kaepernick's Castro thing in Miami of all places really was a bad look and undermined a lot of what he claims to stand for though, but we all make mistakes. Unfortunately he seemed to double down on it, and I don't recall him apologizing or saying he was wrong since.

So we should just allow cops to keep killing innocent minorities because you didn't like that one time one person wore one t-shirt? You're a smart guy, you have to know what a straw man is, no? Kaepernick is drawing attention to a social issue that affects others. He's not the leader or the spokesperson. The point of the protest is to draw attention to a serious issue. Like him, hate him, it doesn't matter; but if you're focusing on him and what he wears as any indication of whether this is a worthy issue, then you're missing the point.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

So we should just allow cops to keep killing innocent minorities because you didn't like that one time one person wore one t-shirt? You're a smart guy, you have to know what a straw man is, no? Kaepernick is drawing attention to a social issue that affects others. He's not the leader or the spokesperson. The point of the protest is to draw attention to a serious issue. Like him, hate him, it doesn't matter; but if you're focusing on him and what he wears as any indication of whether this is a worthy issue, then you're missing the point.

What? I'm not even close to saying that the Castro ordeal invalidates the issues Kaepernick was bringing up, only that I disagree with the people portraying him as the next MLK, or the next Ali, or some hero of justice and equality. That is ALL I am saying. It's just a bad look for someone to say that the US police are corrupt while defending Castro. Of course, just because Kaepernick isn't entirely consistent, and Castro is worse than the US Police doesn't mean that the US Police don't often/sometimes do really bad/racist things. If you thought that's what I meant, that Kaepernik's inconsistencies invalidate the issues he brings up, then I apologize, as that is not what I'm saying at all. That would be straw man, but that's not what I'm saying.

 

[Aleksandar37]

What? I'm not even close to saying that the Castro ordeal invalidates the issues Kaepernick was bringing up, only that I disagree with the people portraying him as the next MLK, or the next Ali, or some hero of justice and equality. That is ALL I am saying. It's just a bad look for someone to say that the US police are corrupt while defending Castro. Of course, just because Kaepernick isn't entirely consistent, and Castro is worse than the US Police doesn't mean that the US Police don't often/sometimes do really bad/racist things. If you thought that's what I meant, that Kaepernik's inconsistencies invalidate the issues he brings up, then I apologize, as that is not what I'm saying at all. That would be straw man, but that's not what I'm saying.

I'm not saying he's going to be the next MLK or Ali either, but think about those two if they were protesting today. MLK wasn't MLK as he's known now when it was actually happening. It's easy to look back and think he was always seen as a hero. When he marched through Chicago's East Side, it was not a happy time. I know because my mother has told me of the stories how the older white men (my grandfather included) were throwing rocks as he marched. If MLK was alive today and marching for civil rights, Trump and his followers would be tweeting and making memes about him. And if we had a draft and Ali was alive and young enough to evade that draft today?!?! A sports figure who embraced Islam?!?!

So again, not saying Kaepernick is the next anything, but I think those others would be grouped together with him if they were doing what they did in the past, today. Just something to think about.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I'm not saying he's going to be the next MLK or Ali either, but think about those two if they were protesting today. MLK wasn't MLK as he's known now when it was actually happening. It's easy to look back and think he was always seen as a hero. When he marched through Chicago's East Side, it was not a happy time. I know because my mother has told me of the stories how the older white men (my grandfather included) were throwing rocks as he marched. If MLK was alive today and marching for civil rights, Trump and his followers would be tweeting and making memes about him. And if we had a draft and Ali was alive and young enough to evade that draft today?!?! A sports figure who embraced Islam?!?!

So again, not saying Kaepernick is the next anything, but I think those others would be grouped together with him if they were doing what they did in the past, today. Just something to think about.

Yeah, racists would likely mock MLK and be dicks to him today, but I think MLK handled himself infinitely better than Kaepernik has, but that’s why MLK is remembered as MLK, not because everyone loved him at the time, because they didn’t, but because of how well he handled himself when he was hated and treated poorly. He wouldn’t have defended Castro in Miami, or worn socks with cop-pigs on them, or said he doesn’t vote. You can say that Kaep has or will have a net positive impact of social justice, but a MLK he is not. Do Kaep’s inconsistencies make his points any less valid? No, but in reality, they make people less likely to hear them and take him seriously. Is it right? Probably not, but it’s reality, and it’s not doing him any favors. Am I explaining myself alright?

 

[Aleksandar37]

Yeah, racists would likely mock MLK and be dicks to him today, but I think MLK handled himself infinitely better than Kaepernik has, but that’s why MLK is remembered as MLK, not because everyone loved him at the time, because they didn’t, but because of how well he handled himself when he was hated and treated poorly. He wouldn’t have defended Castro in Miami, or worn socks with cop-pigs on them, or said he doesn’t vote. You can say that Kaep has or will have a net positive impact of social justice, but a MLK he is not. Do Kaep’s inconsistencies make his points any less valid? No, but in reality, they make people less likely to hear them and take him seriously. Is it right? Probably not, but it’s reality, and it’s not doing him any favors. Am I explaining myself alright?

Yep. Straw man Miami, straw man socks, straw man voting. I hear ya. If those don't matter, than why do you keep bringing them up?

MLK wasn't a perfect person. He was human like anybody else. Just because he was an adulterer doesn't make his message any less meaningful because it wasn't about him. It's about the message.

 

[ax1]

I can see the difference, but both are protected forms of speech/expression (political and religious). Capernick already lost his job, since it's not illegal for a private company to fire him for it.

The point is a whole lot of white folks are burning their Nike's (despite the fact Nike already has their cash) because they errantly think his political kneel was disrespectful to troops and therefore allowing Capernick to be sponsored is a shot at the troops or anti patriotic somehow.

The whole thing is sad really. How issues get twisted and hijacked anymore.

Its all hypocrisy.

People want to burn Nike shoes due to their support of some stupid ignorant protest that got attention all because they decided to put the Cameras on Gaypernick during the Anthem (they really didnt have to, could have pretended like he wasnt even there,) but they are ok with Nike using little Vietnamese slave labor children sewing their Jordans together in the first place all so they can eat a few grains of rice.

Its worse than a double standard, much worse.

 

[ax1]

So we should just allow cops to keep killing innocent minorities because you didn't like that one time one person wore one t-shirt? You're a smart guy, you have to know what a straw man is, no? Kaepernick is drawing attention to a social issue that affects others. He's not the leader or the spokesperson. The point of the protest is to draw attention to a serious issue. Like him, hate him, it doesn't matter; but if you're focusing on him and what he wears as any indication of whether this is a worthy issue, then you're missing the point.

Gaypernick could have done much more for his cause (whether we agree on this "cause" is another issue) on his own time, and maybe even asked the NFL headquarters or his team to possibly help back him and start a movement that could have been far more effective and not divide and alienate him from both the public and business core. I think he made a mistake that set his agenda back, and his BLM girlfriend isnt helping much either imo. He is young, he is not a "trained" politician, it is what it is of course and hopefully he can better his strategy in the long run if it is a concern for him, unfortunately he may have potentially hurt is long run money train (great NFL salary) which is needed in marketing and leveraging a cause.

 

[kisaj]

Are you trying to be creative or funny by calling him gay? Your entire point becomes invalid when you start with a 6th grade level mentality.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yep. Straw man Miami, straw man socks, straw man voting. I hear ya. If those don't matter, than why do you keep bringing them up?

MLK wasn't a perfect person. He was human like anybody else. Just because he was an adulterer doesn't make his message any less meaningful because it wasn't about him. It's about the message.

If you want to be technical, these would be ad hominem fallacies, not straw man fallacies, no? You say I’m using Kaep’s flawed character to discredit his views; that’s textbook ad hominem. Except that I’ve already told you that he brings up good points and there is a lot of injustice, so his protests have meaning and do serve a purpose. All I am saying, and it’s actually not fallacious logic, because I’m not using to to try to disprove his message, is that I personally do not feel that he is a very ideologically consistent man, and I do not think that he would be a good face of the movement. Yes, people hated MLK, mostly the racists, but I don’t recall him going out of his way to upset other people that he could have had on his side. Why alienate and insult a ton of Cubans, who are also minorities, in Miami? Why wear socks with cop-pigs on them to alienate any law enforcement officers that may have agreed with his message? Why say you don’t vote?

Again, his message is legit, and his cause is a valid one, it’s just his inconsistent actions and beliefs make me feel that he would not be an ideal face of a movement, as he has a way of alienating people unnecessarily by some silly moves.

But you never said that you think he should be the face or leader, so I’m just trying to explain why I keep mentioning these things. I don’t dislike his message, it’s something that needs to be addressed in the US, but I don’t like Kaep for the above-mentioned reasons.

I hope this makes sense haha.

 

[bigsmall]

Stand. Have respect people ...for the right people.

 

[ax1]

Again, his message is legit, and his cause is a valid one, it’s just his inconsistent actions and beliefs make me feel that he would not be an ideal face of a movement, as he has a way of alienating people unnecessarily by some silly moves.

Is Colon's message really "legit" though? Are police statistically really the primary cause of this black oppression and death?

 

[CultiVader]

I dunno, I have had a hard time over the years calling most celebrities and politicians especially ones I dont support by their real name. I cant do it and not interested in changing. 6th grade it is, which is a grade level higher than an average level Obama speech.

So ignorant. I’d like to know specifically why any of Obama’s speeches are of a 6th grade level.

I can tell you why Trump’s are. His over use of adjectives, and how he’s always bashing someone. “So and so is very very dumb.” “So and so has a really really low IQ.” Really bro? This is presidential material? This is good representation of America?

And this whole Nike thing is ridiculous. Why do you give a damn if someone wants to kneel or stand or sit or whatever? Look into the crowd at any sporting event. Thousands of people are sitting, eating hot dogs, whatever. Where’s the outrage for them? Where’s the outrage for priests raping kids? Where’s the outrage for all the real injustices happening every day? You’re butthurt because someone is kneeling during the anthem to expose these injustices?

As previously stated, soldiers are dying for your right to kneel. Or stand. Or (freedom) to do whatever the hell you want. Get over the flag. It’s a piece of dyed cloth. America is a melting pot of races. Racism and inequality is real and I see some of you clearly can’t see that it exists and is prevalent in America. America is broken. Change is necessary.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Is Colon's message really "legit" though? Are police statistically really the primary cause of this black oppression and death?

They do sometimes act in a racist manner, and other corrupt manners that may not even have anything to do with race, so even if it’s not the primary cause, that doesn’t mean it’s not a real issue.

Obesity may kill more people than smoking, but does that mean we shouldn’t try to stop smoking?

 

[ax1]

Are you trying to be creative or funny by calling him gay? Your entire point becomes invalid when you start with a 6th grade level mentality.

I dunno, I have had a hard time over the years calling most celebrities and politicians especially ones I dont support by their real name. I cant do it and not interested in changing. 6th grade it is, which is a grade level higher than an average level Obama speech so its not so bad.

I really dont see what the big deal is, you are welcome to skip my posts.

And Im not anti-gay btw, not sure if that was an alarm for you but.... I support more freedoms and liberties for gay people than ALL lefties and even most gay people.

 

[ax1]

They do sometimes act in a racist manner, and other corrupt manners that may not even have anything to do with race, so even if it’s not the primary cause, that doesn’t mean it’s not a real issue.

Obesity may kill more people than smoking, but does that mean we shouldn’t try to stop smoking?

It should only be taken on a case by case, individual by individual basis then, and it cant be 1 side and 1 skin color. Blacks, spanish, etc....have racists too. I just feel this race issue is just one sided and when people like Gaypernick choose a cause by selective skin color he is alienating another group of people especially when its really not bad in the USA (my view of course) anymore. Its not the 1950's anymore. All lives matter, thats my motto. Selectively picking color/race sides breeds division and separatism these days here imo.

 

[ax1]

So ignorant. I’d like to know specifically why any of Obama’s speeches are of a 6th grade level.

I can tell you why Trump’s are. His over use of adjectives, and how he’s always bashing someone. “So and so is very very dumb.” “So and so has a really really low IQ.” Really bro? This is presidential material? This is good representation of America?

And this whole Nike thing is ridiculous. Why do you give a damn if someone wants to kneel or stand or sit or whatever? Look into the crowd at any sporting event. Thousands of people are sitting, eating hot dogs, whatever. Where’s the outrage for them? Where’s the outrage for priests raping kids? Where’s the outrage for all the real injustices happening every day? You’re butthurt because someone is kneeling during the anthem to expose these injustices?

As previously stated, soldiers are dying for your right to kneel. Or stand. Or (freedom) to do whatever the hell you want. Get over the flag. It’s a piece of dyed cloth. America is a melting pot of races. Racism and inequality is real and I see some of you clearly can’t see that it exists and is prevalent in America. America is broken. Change is necessary.

Its actually between an 8th grade and 9th grade level. His Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level is statistically at an 8th grade level which is rather insulting coming from the last Puppet in Chief. http://editions.lib.umn.edu/smartpolitics/2010/01/29/professor-obama-presidents-sta/
I do remember he had given at least one on a 5th grade which stuck to my head and he has used teleprompters to talk to 2nd grade classrooms before which is absolutely comical.

Why do you bring Dump into this? What does that have to do with Obama's offensively low context speeches? Was I defending Dump here? Are you using Dump as an excuse to justify Obama's also insultingly low but maybe slightly higher level of speech?

If you read my posts you would see that I support Gaypernicks right to kneel, where is your outburst coming from at me? I simply said I disagree with him, but I will go to the death to both support his right to kneel and for his employers having the right to fire him when he is doing so on their time hurting their product and other peoples livelihoods. Im also supporting how he or others can learn from their mistakes can better succeed with their politics no matter what the cause.

America is most likely the least racist and open minded country on the planet. Nobody here I saw is saying it doesnt exist.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

You guys do know that politicians will often tailor their language to their target audience. If they’re speaking to the general public, which often includes some not-very-educated people, you don’t want to go over their heads with terribly complex vocabulary and sentence structure. This goes for Obama and Trump.