DMZ stack suggestions

UT_King said:
Damn, well assuming 45mg does me well in the next few days, then I guess I can chalk it up to 30mg just not being an effective dose. Otherwise... it's something I don't want to claim yet.
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Have any side effects or suppression?
 
Day 12 DMZ (45 mg)
Last 2 gym sessions went well but still underwhelming. Really the same type of session I have normally with a good PWO. I have sweated in bed both nights since bumping to 45mg, but that's really the only thing I've noticed. Approaching the 2 week point, pretty bummed with the results. My friend running concurrently (same dosage as me every day) is having the same results.
 
UT_King said:
Looks good but has a major price tag on it. Is 225mg in 5 pumps equivalent to a full oral dose?
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regarding the Alpha Four - 225mg td is probably closer to equal about 450mg orally. considering most oral products cost $50+ and only offer around 100mg daily, I'd consider ours a major value...especially with the current coupon codes.

not to mention the additional benefits of the transdermal androsterone 👍
 
delsolrob said:
regarding the Alpha Four - 225mg td is probably closer to equal about 450mg orally. considering most oral products cost $50+ and only offer around 100mg daily, I'd consider ours a major value...especially with the current coupon codes.

not to mention the additional benefits of the transdermal androsterone 👍
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I’ve always wondered how these TD non-methyl PHs compare on a dose basis with their oral counterparts. Are there any studies/data to show this? I’m thinking of doing a 1/4 DHEA cycle and I’m trying to decide which is more cost effective to get to that +300mg equivalent (oral dose). I don’t want to hijack this thread but I also have some Alpha Four. It seems expensive if people don’t understand the TD vs oral dosage.
 
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delsolrob said:
regarding the Alpha Four - 225mg td is probably closer to equal about 450mg orally. considering most oral products cost $50+ and only offer around 100mg daily, I'd consider ours a major value...especially with the current coupon codes.

not to mention the additional benefits of the transdermal androsterone 👍
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After I have a good idea of how DMZ treats me, I plan on adding the Alpha Four. Unfortunately, not a lot to report so far on the DMZ. Likely will start the Alpha Four in a few more days. What you recommend for initial dosage? 5 pumps applied to upper body?
 
UT_King said:
After I have a good idea of how DMZ treats me, I plan on adding the Alpha Four. Unfortunately, not a lot to report so far on the DMZ. Likely will start the Alpha Four in a few more days. What you recommend for initial dosage? 5 pumps applied to upper body?
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I'd start at 4 pumps and evaluate the need to go up from there - please report back on how you like it!

apply to torso, chest, upper arms and shoulders, upper back. Can also apply to thighs, behind the knees, feet...if you need to be creative due to kids/etc.
 
Fly_boy said:
I’ve always wondered how these TD non-methyl PHs compare on a dose basis with their oral counterparts. Are there any studies/data to show this? I’m thinking of doing a 1/4 DHEA cycle and I’m trying to decide which is more cost effective to get to that +300mg equivalent (oral dose). I don’t want to hijack this thread but I also have some Alpha Four. It seems expensive if people don’t understand the TD vs oral dosage.
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We know the oral bioavailability of non methylated ph's is low.

Couple the transdermal efficiency with the other benefits of TD
1) buffered delivery - generally speaking these steroids and ph's have a relatively short half life. capsuled products attempt to mitigate this issue by using a myriad of esterified flavors of the ph. don't forget that if you have 100mg of active and it's got a long chain fatty ester, you're actually losing a pretty significant amount to the weight of the ester...some times up to 1/3 is ester. Our transdermal gels buffer delivery over 10-12 hours, so you only have to apply once per day. We don't have to use exotic long fatty esters, our 225mg of 4-dhea is an actual 225mg, not 150mg with 75mg of ester (example in my head is undecoanate).

2) the skin has the enzymes to convert the ph's to the target steroids we want - so, not only are you getting a greater efficiency, you're also getting a greater conversion.

I'll see if I can pull some specific data.
 
Day 14 DMZ (45 mg)
Had to swap to nightshift for work for the weekend (luckily my off day from gym) and picked up a large pizza on the way to work. Ate the entire thing and not surprisingly felt lethargic most of the night. Got home and noticed my ankles were swollen. So I'm unsure if it was the combination of food/being on my feet for 12 hours or something more sinister. Upping my water intake and eating cleaner today to see if the swelling resides. Plan on doing legs tonight assuming no ankle pain.
 
Day 19 DMZ (45 mg)
Day 5 Alpha Four (4 squirts)
Finally had a couple workouts that I couldn't match naturally. Leg pump yesterday was skin splitting. Strength is going up slightly but not as pronounced as when I used Msten. One of the most noticeable effects so far is being able to "feel" the muscles working. I weigh in every morning when I first wake and I'm up about 7lbs.

Side effects: I sweat for the first couple hours every night going to sleep. Limbs falling asleep more. Blood pressure is slightly high but nothing concerning.
 
UT_King said:
Day 19 DMZ (45 mg)
Day 5 Alpha Four (4 squirts)
Finally had a couple workouts that I couldn't match naturally. Leg pump yesterday was skin splitting. Strength is going up slightly but not as pronounced as when I used Msten. One of the most noticeable effects so far is being able to "feel" the muscles working. I weigh in every morning when I first wake and I'm up about 7lbs.

Side effects: I sweat for the first couple hours every night going to sleep. Limbs falling asleep more. Blood pressure is slightly high but nothing concerning.
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I would sweat like crazy some nights when I was on PHs. Anyone know the cause of this? I’m just guessing it’s harder for the body to cool down for REM sleep when your androgens are going crazy.
 
Fly_boy said:
I would sweat like crazy some nights when I was on PHs. Anyone know the cause of this? I’m just guessing it’s harder for the body to cool down for REM sleep when your androgens are going crazy.
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What PH? Any PH related to tren or dienolone?
 
Fly_boy said:
I would sweat like crazy some nights when I was on PHs. Anyone know the cause of this? I’m just guessing it’s harder for the body to cool down for REM sleep when your androgens are going crazy.
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All androgens raise my body temp, especially noticeable will be orals or anything fast-acting since you will feel the surge after administration (usually 30-60 min after an oral I am noticeably hotter). Then you have to consider how much individual compounds improve nutrient utilization & glucose turnover (they all do to varying degrees). You eat carbs especially and you can expect more warmth after meals.

Also, if you are getting heavier, especially from muscle mass, that’s going to be a larger surface area to trap heat against the bed as well.
 
UT_King said:
Also considering Epiandro, specifically OL Sup3r Epi. Would love some experienced feedback on something synergistic with DMZ.
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Epi andro is great for energy and I used to always use it as a test base along with 4 andro, however Androtest is about as good as it gets as far as prohormones bc it's not 4 andro, it's 4 adiol, which has up to a 75 percent higher conversion rate of test. I would recommend throwing another prohormone in the mix. DMZ alone never really gave me results. Also, Epi andro gives me less results, it just helps me feel good on cycle. But if you're going with epi, sup3r epi elite is the way to go.
 
Megashark said:
Epi andro is great for energy and I used to always use it as a test base along with 4 andro, however Androtest is about as good as it gets as far as prohormones bc it's not 4 andro, it's 4 adiol, which has up to a 75 percent higher conversion rate of test. I would recommend throwing another prohormone in the mix. DMZ alone never really gave me results. Also, Epi andro gives me less results, it just helps me feel good on cycle. But if you're going with epi, sup3r epi elite is the way to go.
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Also, whoever was asking about the liver support, you are SUPPOSED TO take liver support with any methylated PH/DS
 
UT_King said:
Day 19 DMZ (45 mg)
Day 5 Alpha Four (4 squirts)
Finally had a couple workouts that I couldn't match naturally. Leg pump yesterday was skin splitting. Strength is going up slightly but not as pronounced as when I used Msten. One of the most noticeable effects so far is being able to "feel" the muscles working. I weigh in every morning when I first wake and I'm up about 7lbs.

Side effects: I sweat for the first couple hours every night going to sleep. Limbs falling asleep more. Blood pressure is slightly high but nothing concerning.
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Glad you are starting to feel enhanced
 
Fly_boy said:
OG Halodrol
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It's the first time I hear about this side with Halodrol. It's a common side with tren and dienolone, but I've never had it with other PH or DS. I've done mechabol twice (another 4-chloro compound) and I had no trouble sleeping.
 
Day 28 DMZ (45 mg)
Day 14 Alpha Four (5 squirts)

So it took a solid 3 weeks for the DMZ to give me results that I was expecting. The last week has had some great workouts. The pumps are flat out phenomenal (sometimes painful) and the strength gains are good, but not on par with M-sten. My diet has been clean with a few exceptions and I'm up 8-10 lbs. Going to run 32 days to the end of the bottle.

Side effects: Still sweating every night for a couple hours (AC @ 66). Slight ankle swelling every now and again, usually coincides with a high sodium/cheat day. Blood pressure has been mostly normal. Other than that, sides have been at a minimum.
 
UT_King said:
Day 28 DMZ (45 mg)
Day 14 Alpha Four (5 squirts)

So it took a solid 3 weeks for the DMZ to give me results that I was expecting. The last week has had some great workouts. The pumps are flat out phenomenal (sometimes painful) and the strength gains are good, but not on par with M-sten. My diet has been clean with a few exceptions and I'm up 8-10 lbs. Going to run 32 days to the end of the bottle.

Side effects: Still sweating every night for a couple hours (AC @ 66). Slight ankle swelling every now and again, usually coincides with a high sodium/cheat day. Blood pressure has been mostly normal. Other than that, sides have been at a minimum.
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Glad it's kicked in for you!
 
So you were expecting to gain 10lbs on an oral-only cycle in less than 3 weeks? I think you should have applied for a fairy godmother, not steroids
 
Hyde said:
So you were expecting to gain 10lbs on an oral-only cycle in less than 3 weeks? I think you should have applied for a fairy godmother, not steroids Invalid Link Removed
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Well 4 weeks, but you're right the weight gain has been good. Also, I've been at +600-800 calories which is considerable for my 165 starting weight. The lesson learned for me was <45mg was not an effective dose, in hindsight, I should have went to 45 earlier or stacked with something else.
 
With my PCT coming up, this is what I planned on. Any thoughts?

Nolva 20/20/10/10
Clomid 25/25/25eod/25eod
M-Test (2 bottle run out)

Also, I have Aromasin on hand.
 
UT_King said:
With my PCT coming up, this is what I planned on. Any thoughts?

Nolva 20/20/10/10
Clomid 25/25/25eod/25eod
M-Test (2 bottle run out)

Also, I have Aromasin on hand.
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Would begin the Mtest the last week of SERM use. As the SERMs clear, the ingredients in Mtest will build up to stable levels, and you will reap the benefits of the natural ingredients.
 
UT_King said:
With my PCT coming up, this is what I planned on. Any thoughts?

Nolva 20/20/10/10
Clomid 25/25/25eod/25eod
M-Test (2 bottle run out)

Also, I have Aromasin on hand.
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I'm interested in this, is it a good idea to add some Aromasin at the end of the PCT to lower circulating estrogen?
 
ValiantThor08 said:
Also, think about peptides or MK. Will make PCT easier to retain muscle.
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These aren’t without cost. You are looking at elevated blood glucose levels now, worsening insulin sensitivity and promoting fat gain as well, as well as elevated prolactin which can compound libido issues already present in PCT and even promote gyno if that and/or estrogen isn’t lowered by time Nolva is done.

So now you have to add Berberine or Metformin, and Inhibit-P or use more AI. The cost goes up significantly for a few lbs of muscle that will be returned next cycle. Which should be at least 3 months away so you are going to lose some no matter what being off that long.

Just considerations. If you need to stay as big as possible it’s a great option. But it ain’t free and won’t produce the sexiest look.

UNX said:
I'm interested in this, is it a good idea to add some Aromasin at the end of the PCT to lower circulating estrogen?
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It can help recovery if you use a lot, but it’s often not necessary unless using a lot of HCG or you tend to have high estrogen. And creating a low estrogen environment can have it’s own drawbacks like joint discomfort, low libido and failure to restore HDL. My advice is dose on feel and don’t use more than you need to prevent gyno - let the body sort itself out while on Nolva.
 
Hyde said:
These aren’t without cost. You are looking at elevated blood glucose levels now, worsening insulin sensitivity and promoting fat gain as well, as well as elevated prolactin which can compound libido issues already present in PCT and even promote gyno if that and/or estrogen isn’t lowered by time Nolva is done.

So now you have to add Berberine or Metformin, and Inhibit-P or use more AI. The cost goes up significantly for a few lbs of muscle that will be returned next cycle. Which should be at least 3 months away so you are going to lose some no matter what being off that long.

Just considerations. If you need to stay as big as possible it’s a great option. But it ain’t free and won’t produce the sexiest look.



It can help recovery if you use a lot, but it’s often not necessary unless using a lot of HCG or you tend to have high estrogen. And creating a low estrogen environment can have it’s own drawbacks like joint discomfort, low libido and failure to restore HDL. My advice is dose on feel and don’t use more than you need to prevent gyno - let the body sort itself out while on Nolva.
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All good points. P5P seems to mitigate prolactin issues for me, and I'm fairly insulin sensitive.
 
Day 12 PCT
Nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 25mg ED

I am on day 12 of PCT, but after finishing my run, 3 days later my wife had our son premature. So needless to say it's been chaotic and working out was put on the back burner. Not really going to talk about my evaporating gains, but I do have one issue I'd like some advice on.

On day 8 of PCT while laying on my back on the wooden "dad bed" in the hospital, I noticed a lump/knot above, not really under, both nipples. The left is larger and more elongated, the right is smaller and like a pea size. My nipples haven't been puffy or itchy at all, and only minor soreness to the touch. Any ideas on what this is? Initial formation of gyno? Should I up my Nolva dose to 40? I also have Aromasin, but haven't used it yet. One other thing is my diet has been total **** since I've been at the hospital for a week.

Any help/ideas/suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!
 
UT_King said:
Day 12 PCT
Nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 25mg ED

I am on day 12 of PCT, but after finishing my run, 3 days later my wife had our son premature. So needless to say it's been chaotic and working out was put on the back burner. Not really going to talk about my evaporating gains, but I do have one issue I'd like some advice on.

On day 8 of PCT while laying on my back on the wooden "dad bed" in the hospital, I noticed a lump/knot above, not really under, both nipples. The left is larger and more elongated, the right is smaller and like a pea size. My nipples haven't been puffy or itchy at all, and only minor soreness to the touch. Any ideas on what this is? Initial formation of gyno? Should I up my Nolva dose to 40? I also have Aromasin, but haven't used it yet. One other thing is my diet has been total **** since I've been at the hospital for a week.

Any help/ideas/suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!
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Any tenderness or sensitivity?
 
UT_King said:
Very minor, maybe a 2 out of 10.
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Well, I couldn't say for sure (long distance), but it sounds like a little gyno starting.

If it were me, I'd up the Nolva to 40mg for a while (can't hurt), and start Aromasin.
 
UT_King said:
Day 12 PCT
Nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 25mg ED

I am on day 12 of PCT, but after finishing my run, 3 days later my wife had our son premature. So needless to say it's been chaotic and working out was put on the back burner. Not really going to talk about my evaporating gains, but I do have one issue I'd like some advice on.

On day 8 of PCT while laying on my back on the wooden "dad bed" in the hospital, I noticed a lump/knot above, not really under, both nipples. The left is larger and more elongated, the right is smaller and like a pea size. My nipples haven't been puffy or itchy at all, and only minor soreness to the touch. Any ideas on what this is? Initial formation of gyno? Should I up my Nolva dose to 40? I also have Aromasin, but haven't used it yet. One other thing is my diet has been total **** since I've been at the hospital for a week.

Any help/ideas/suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!
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What is brand name of the Nolva? Are you positive it is legit?
 
Renew1 said:
Well, I couldn't say for sure (long distance), but it sounds like a little gyno starting.

If it were me, I'd up the Nolva to 40mg for a while (can't hurt), and start Aromasin.
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100% this. No reason not to. Nolva is dirt cheap if you need to order more to finish PCT proper.
 
UT_King said:
How would you dose the Aromasin?
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I would dose it at 12.5mg per day.
(Individual results vary).

Or you could run it at 25mg for 2 days, and then go to 12.5.
.... Either way, the concern will be the same (crashing Estrogen).
Do you think you'd recognize low E symptoms, so you could stop the AI for a while, if necessary?
 
Renew1 said:
I would dose it at 12.5mg per day.
(Individual results vary).

Or you could run it at 25mg for 2 days, and then go to 12.5.
.... Either way, the concern will be the same (crashing Estrogen).
Do you think you'd recognize low E symptoms, so you could stop the AI for a while, if necessary?
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I think so, any tell-tale signs should I be watching for? Already my gas tank is running on empty from no sleep and stress.

Think I'll go 12.5 and up the Nolva to 40. Do you have a brand recommendation?

Really appreciate the help by the way. Horrible timing for me with no exercise, limited sleep, stress, poor diet right as I was getting into PCT.
 
UT_King said:
I think so, any tell-tale signs should I be watching for? Already my gas tank is running on empty from no sleep and stress.

Think I'll go 12.5 and up the Nolva to 40. Do you have a brand recommendation?

Really appreciate the help by the way. Horrible timing for me with no exercise, limited sleep, stress, poor diet right as I was getting into PCT.
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Achy joints, feeling "crappy", (normally) low libido .....

Mike is great:

Invalid Link Removed

Don't mention it brother.
We try to look out for each other.
 
Mann I followed this thread and was glad to see when it ‘kicked in’ for ya finally....Hate to see this now....These other pros’ have covered ya...Keep us informed
 
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