Unanswered DMAA ??

[Megashark]

DMAA/DMHA are both highly catabolic stimulants. I am interested in bulking so obviously they would be worthless to me. But even if I wanted to cut, I wouldn't take it. I am not judging anyone who does, I can see the appeal. You can push yourself harder and longer.. However I used to be a meth/Adderall/cocaine addict(as well as my true love, opiates and benzos), and stimulants for me are synonymous with unhealthy weight loss, lack of sleep, no desire to eat and a burnt out feeling from overactive dopamine release.

That's my two or three cents .

 

[ValiantThor08]

Is DMAA catabolic in and of itself? Or are you saying the sides it gave you were catabolic (bad sleep, low appetite, etc.)?

 

[warriorscode8]

Ahh, fellow benzo/opiate addict here. 5 years off opiates, a year of the benzos...that **** was the hardest to kick out of everything. I was taking anywhere from 5-20mg of clonazepam a day. Ended up in the ICU. Nasty nasty stuff.
I like dmaa once in awhile, but all I need is a cup of coffee.

 

[Zvch]

DMAA/DMHA are both highly catabolic stimulants. I am interested in bulking so obviously they would be worthless to me. But even if I wanted to cut, I wouldn't take it. I am not judging anyone who does, I can see the appeal. You can push yourself harder and longer.. However I used to be a meth/Adderall/cocaine addict(as well as my true love, opiates and benzos), and stimulants for me are synonymous with unhealthy weight loss, lack of sleep, no desire to eat and a burnt out feeling from overactive dopamine release.

That's my two or three cents .

I totally get where you’re coming from - I used to have a problem with every substance you listed lol.

With DMAA/DMHA I really don’t think their “catabolic” and vasoconstriction effects are as detrimental to building muscle as people make them out to be, however. I think that extra boost and extra drive in the gym - the ability to lift harder and longer - about evens it out honestly.

I just came off a pretty solid bulk and I used them for just about every workout. They definitely helped me with the motivation to do that extra little bit of cardio to ensure minimal fat gain. When your tolerance shoots up with them and you barely feel the kick until hours after your workout, your only option is to do a little late night cardio.

 

[Zvch]

DMAA/DMHA are both highly catabolic stimulants. I am interested in bulking so obviously they would be worthless to me. But even if I wanted to cut, I wouldn't take it. I am not judging anyone who does, I can see the appeal. You can push yourself harder and longer.. However I used to be a meth/Adderall/cocaine addict(as well as my true love, opiates and benzos), and stimulants for me are synonymous with unhealthy weight loss, lack of sleep, no desire to eat and a burnt out feeling from overactive dopamine release.

That's my two or three cents .

I totally get where you’re coming from - I used to have a problem with every substance you listed lol.

With DMAA/DMHA I really don’t think their “catabolic” and vasoconstriction effects are as detrimental to building muscle as people make them out to be, however. I think that extra boost and extra drive in the gym - the ability to lift harder and longer - about evens it out honestly.

I just came off a pretty solid bulk and I used them for just about every workout. They definitely helped me with the motivation to do that extra little bit of cardio to ensure minimal fat gain. When your tolerance shoots up with them and you barely feel the kick until hours after your workout, your only option is to do a little late night cardio.

 

[Jeremyk1]

But are they really catabolic? Everyone says that, but I have yet to see anyone give a reference.

 

[TheSuppGuy]

I think they make you get more cortisol

 

[thebigt]

Is DMAA catabolic in and of itself? Or are you saying the sides it gave you were catabolic (bad sleep, low appetite, etc.)?

not just dmaa, all stims will elevate cortisol...Invictus is my friend.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I think they make you get more cortisol

Cortisol is probably the most vital hormone involved in adaptations to resistance training, the stigma on it needs to die.

It is literally a hormone which gets the body from A to B.

 

[Megashark]

But are they really catabolic? Everyone says that, but I have yet to see anyone give a reference.

I don't have any references offhand but this is something I have known before I even knew what the word catabolic meant. DHAA and other stimulants increase your metabolism and decrease your appetite. That in and of itself makes it catabolic in nature. Not sure how they affect testosterone and cortisol levels but here is the Webster's definition.

Catabolic definition; marked by or promoting metabolic activity concerned with the breakdown of complex molecules (such as proteins or lipids) and the release of energy within the organism

 

[Jeremyk1]

not just dmaa, all stims will elevate cortisol...Invictus is my friend.

Okay, so they elevate cortisol (still haven’t seen a reference for that). I could also say that because they increase dopamine via reuptake inhibition, they decrease prolactin and increase testosterone and are actually anabolic. For the record though, I don’t have a reference for that either.

 

[Jeremyk1]

...but this is something I have known before I even knew what the word catabolic meant.

Based on... what exactly?

You should probably read the definition you quoted. “Catabolic” isn’t exclusive to muscle tissue, and cortisol is actually beneficial in aiding fat loss. One of its primary functions is to increase energy availability via breakdown of fat stores.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Based on... what exactly?

You should probably read the definition you quoted. “Catabolic” isn’t exclusive to muscle tissue, and cortisol is actually beneficial in aiding fat loss. One of its primary functions is to increase energy availability via breakdown of fat stores.

And increase amino acid pool for to aid protein synthesis...

 

[Megashark]

Basically I just mean it's not good for building muscle because it eats fat but it also eats muscle. But some like the extra drive it gives them..for some, the pros outweigh the cons. Not for me personally though. And if you think stimulants are anabolic..well, power to ya brother! Lol

 

[Jeremyk1]

I don’t actually think they’re anabolic. I was making a point. The point is, they aren’t inherently catabolic. There’s simply no evidence saying so, unless I’m missing something.

 

[thebigt]

Okay, so they elevate cortisol (still haven’t seen a reference for that). I could also say that because they increase dopamine via reuptake inhibition, they decrease prolactin and increase testosterone and are actually anabolic. For the record though, I don’t have a reference for that either.

higher cortisol=lower testosterone....testosterone actually lowers cortisol....this is why a anti-cortisol product is used in pct-to counter rebound cortisol.

 

[Megashark]

I don’t actually think they’re anabolic. I was making a point. The point is, they aren’t inherently catabolic. There’s simply no evidence saying so, unless I’m missing something.

Honestly, I don't know. Stims for me just FEEL like they are eating away at me. Then again, I used to smoke/shoot meth for days and didn't eat a damn thing. I am aware there is a big difference between DHAA as a preworkout and shooting crystal..
But I am glad to be off all that ****!

 

[Rad83]

Worrying if Dmaa and high stim pre’s are catabolic, is way overthinking things....Fact is, they take your training to another level...But can throw your sleep/circadian rhythm off, which is crucial to recovery...These days im a coffee guy pre workout...

If you have previous addictions, I totally agree with avoiding the advanced pre workouts!! ...A very basic pre or coffee can put you in a nice mental space to train though!

 

[ValiantThor08]

Worrying if Dmaa and high stim pre’s are catabolic, is way overthinking things....Fact is, they take your training to another level...But can throw your sleep/circadian rhythm off, which is crucial to recovery...These days im a coffee guy pre workout...

If you have previous addictions, I totally agree with avoiding the advanced pre workouts!! ...A very basic pre or coffee can put you in a nice mental space to train though!

With work schedule, taking the stims before 6am, does me good. Much better than taking later in afternoon.

 

[Rad83]

With work schedule, taking the stims before 6am, does me good. Much better than taking later in afternoon.

Perfect,...Puts ya in a good state all day

 

[Jeremyk1]

Honestly, I don't know. Stims for me just FEEL like they are eating away at me.

Well if you don’t feel good, don’t do it! Case closed.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, I did search around a little and found some info that’s new to me. Hope the link works.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mehis_Viru/publication/8367555_Cortisol_-_Essential_Adaptation_Hormone_in_Exercise/links/5448da0d0cf22b3c14e336b4.pdf

Direct quote:

“In resting conditions, administration of glucocorticoids results in pronounced catabolic changes in various tissues, including skeletal muscle. However, during exercise the catabolic effects of administered glucocorticoids are inhibited in skeletal muscle.”

Cortisol doesn’t have any catabolic effect on muscle during exercise. Stim junkies rejoice!

 

[Jeremyk1]

After reading through more of the link I posted, there’s lots of interesting information in there.
For example:
“Actually, in a number of studies the decreased ratio [of free testosterone to cortisol] was associated with improved performance of athletes.”

Cortisol is actually a performance enhancer.

 

[Megashark]

Well if you don’t feel good, don’t do it! Case closed.

Seeing as how in the OP I was stating an opinion rather than inquiring about anything, case closed indeed. I am well aware of how stimulants affect me and my mind has been made up not to do them for several years now.
Regardless, I love me some C4 every now and again.

 

[LeanEngineer]

With work schedule, taking the stims before 6am, does me good. Much better than taking later in afternoon.

Same for me! Starts my day off right if I get some stims in me to get me going!

 

[N2ofusion]

Yeah, personal preference. Stims have their role, especially for those who need motivation to get going in the gym.

 

[Ari Gold]

DMAA/DMHA are both highly catabolic stimulants. I am interested in bulking so obviously they would be worthless to me. But even if I wanted to cut, I wouldn't take it. I am not judging anyone who does, I can see the appeal. You can push yourself harder and longer.. However I used to be a meth/Adderall/cocaine addict(as well as my true love, opiates and benzos), and stimulants for me are synonymous with unhealthy weight loss, lack of sleep, no desire to eat and a burnt out feeling from overactive dopamine release.

That's my two or three cents .

Ahh, fellow benzo/opiate addict here. 5 years off opiates, a year of the benzos...that **** was the hardest to kick out of everything. I was taking anywhere from 5-20mg of clonazepam a day. Ended up in the ICU. Nasty nasty stuff.
I like dmaa once in awhile, but all I need is a cup of coffee.

I totally get where you’re coming from - I used to have a problem with every substance you listed lol.

With DMAA/DMHA I really don’t think their “catabolic” and vasoconstriction effects are as detrimental to building muscle as people make them out to be, however. I think that extra boost and extra drive in the gym - the ability to lift harder and longer - about evens it out honestly.

I just came off a pretty solid bulk and I used them for just about every workout. They definitely helped me with the motivation to do that extra little bit of cardio to ensure minimal fat gain. When your tolerance shoots up with them and you barely feel the kick until hours after your workout, your only option is to do a little late night cardio.

While a little off topic, I'd really just like to congratulate each of you for getting off of all of these and getting clean. GREAT JOB!

 

[Old Witch]

Meth, adderall, and cocaine aren’t ergogenic aids the way dmaa is.

DMAA has twice the pressor activity of adrenaline. It will make you lift more for sure.

 

[thebigt]

After reading through more of the link I posted, there’s lots of interesting information in there.
For example:
“Actually, in a number of studies the decreased ratio [of free testosterone to cortisol] was associated with improved performance of athletes.”

Cortisol is actually a performance enhancer.

link to this study..


if you get 8-10 hours sleep very night
if you consume little to no caffeine
if you have little to no stress

then you are fine....

 

[TheSuppGuy]

link to this study..


if you get 8-10 hours sleep very night
if you consume little to no caffeine
if you have little to no stress

then you are fine....

U sure little to no caffeine is good?

 

[thebigt]

U sure little to no caffeine is good?

it is if you want cortisol in 'normal' range. higher amounts of caffeine will raise cortisol.

 

[TheSuppGuy]

it is if you want cortisol in 'normal' range. higher amounts of caffeine will raise cortisol.

Damn. I try to get 300mg+

 

[ValiantThor08]

it is if you want cortisol in 'normal' range. higher amounts of caffeine will raise cortisol.

And caffiene constricts capillaries.

 

[thebigt]

Damn. I try to get 300mg+

I am waay over that...but since I rep for iron legion I stay on Invictus most of the year.

 

[The Express 42]

I could use DMAA and DMHA daily and if I’m in a caloric surplus I’d still gain muscle. Fact

 

[Jeremyk1]

I could use DMAA and DMHA daily and if I’m in a caloric surplus I’d still gain muscle. Fact

I don’t even know why this discussion is still going. Acute increases in cortisol increase performance and it’s not catabolic in exercised muscle. I posted a link earlier. Of course you can still gain.

 

[Zvch]

Anybody else experience withdrawals from DMAA/DMHA after discontinuing prolonged use? I only used them pre-workout, but a good 5-6 days a week for about the last 6-8 weeks.

Not sure if I can pinpoint the extreme lethargy I’ve been experiencing to those directly but I’ve come off of amphetamines before after abusing them daily and this feels pretty similar just not to the same degree.

 

[TheSuppGuy]

Anybody else experience withdrawals from DMAA/DMHA after discontinuing prolonged use? I only used them pre-workout, but a good 5-6 days a week for about the last 6-8 weeks.

Not sure if I can pinpoint the extreme lethargy I’ve been experiencing to those directly but I’ve come off of amphetamines before after abusing them daily and this feels pretty similar just not to the same degree.

I used several tubs of it before in the past. DMAA pre workouts. Def can be true what you are saying, but I'm not sure. I don't see any benefits of it for gains. You want to MINIMIZE cortizol to maximize testosterone and optimal growth

 

[TheSuppGuy]

It's not about how much more you are able to push with a pre workout. You train to tear the muscle down, and the rest of the 22-23 hours you recover from the training. Everything needs to be optimal and training ALREADY puts the body on stress and increases cortisol. Why take a stim that tenfolds it and takes away sleep from you, while it may ALSO have some undocumented effects on health and act as amphetamines do... Just my thoughts!

 

[thebigt]

Anybody else experience withdrawals from DMAA/DMHA after discontinuing prolonged use? I only used them pre-workout, but a good 5-6 days a week for about the last 6-8 weeks.

Not sure if I can pinpoint the extreme lethargy I’ve been experiencing to those directly but I’ve come off of amphetamines before after abusing them daily and this feels pretty similar just not to the same degree.

what goes up must come down, let the spinning wheel go round...

BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS-SPINNING WHEEL

 

[NoAddedHmones]

It's not about how much more you are able to push with a pre workout. You train to tear the muscle down, and the rest of the 22-23 hours you recover from the training. Everything needs to be optimal and training ALREADY puts the body on stress and increases cortisol. Why take a stim that tenfolds it and takes away sleep from you, while it may ALSO have some undocumented effects on health and act as amphetamines do... Just my thoughts!

Guess what Hormone plays a vital part in those 22-23 hours? It begins with C

 

[Ricky10]

So studies and theories aside regarding the impact of cortisol being catabolic or not...

I think most of us would agree that we feel and look as though we are in a more anabolic state when we run cortisol control products such as Invictus, Reduce-XT, 7-KT, etc..

 

[Jeremyk1]

So studies and theories aside regarding the impact of cortisol being catabolic or not...

I think most of us would agree that we feel and look as though we are in a more anabolic state when we run cortisol control products such as Invictus, Reduce-XT, 7-KT, etc..

Chronic cortisol can absolutely have a negative impact on body composition. Acute increases are actually highly beneficial. Cortisol response to training is highly beneficial to performance, and glucocorticoid induced catabolism in muscle is blocked during training. Cortisol helps energy mobilization, but when you leave it chronically elevated, particularly without physical activity to burn the fuel it’s mobilized, it can deposit all that into fat tissue.

Chronic stress/cortisol=not so good

Acute cortisol=normal, even beneficial

 

[TheSuppGuy]

Guess what Hormone plays a vital part in those 22-23 hours? It begins with C

Vitamin C..?

 

[ValiantThor08]

Vitamin C..?

Not a hormone lol

 

[TheSuppGuy]

Not a hormone lol

Haha I know.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Haha I know.

Now you know

Just messing with you

 

[TheSuppGuy]

Now you know

Just messing with you

Hahahaha

 

[Ricky10]

Chronic cortisol can absolutely have a negative impact on body composition. Acute increases are actually highly beneficial. Cortisol response to training is highly beneficial to performance, and glucocorticoid induced catabolism in muscle is blocked during training. Cortisol helps energy mobilization, but when you leave it chronically elevated, particularly without physical activity to burn the fuel it’s mobilized, it can deposit all that into fat tissue.

Chronic stress/cortisol=not so good

Acute cortisol=normal, even beneficial

Nicely summarized there!

I am definitely chronically stressed from my job, it’s terrible. Everyone is burned out. We are all doing the work of up to 2.5 people on a regular basis according to our company labor plan. Not even time to eat during a 12.5 hr shift. They don’t care though because the work is still getting done, even though we are all physically and mentally cooked. Stims are the only way I can manage..

Everyone steer clear of the healthcare field if you value your own well being!

 

[stimtron]

Chronic cortisol can absolutely have a negative impact on body composition. Acute increases are actually highly beneficial. Cortisol response to training is highly beneficial to performance, and glucocorticoid induced catabolism in muscle is blocked during training. Cortisol helps energy mobilization, but when you leave it chronically elevated, particularly without physical activity to burn the fuel it’s mobilized, it can deposit all that into fat tissue.

Chronic stress/cortisol=not so good

Acute cortisol=normal, even beneficial

What's the consensus just PS for high cortisol?

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

I imagine a world where DMAA is legal, but also gets your dink hard instead of completely destroying your sex drive.