Did you know your SAAs are not actually SAAs?

Spaniard said:
My man ;)

Knew you'd be there for me, lol!

Try harder... it lacked pizzazz, wow me, you're just not the same :(
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If you cant handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best.
 
So back on topic, is there an SAA product on the market that contains actual hydrolyzed silk protein with the associated sericin-s peptides?

Because:

-Finaflex
-TrueNutrition
-BPI

appear to not be the material I'm looking for.

Any more obscure online brands selling it perhaps?

Side note: I've got nothing personal against snag, he's just a sales rep doing his job, and he does it well.
 
Is it just me or is De-ebs speaking a lot of sense! Unless I'm mistaken his observation about the SAAs sold and said companies and those used in the study warrants some thought and consideration.
 
saggy321 said:
Is it just me or is De-ebs speaking a lot of sense! Unless I'm mistaken his observation about the SAAs sold and said companies and those used in the study warrants some thought and consideration.
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De_eb will be an asset to this forum with his knowledge base. I hope to see more of him in the advanced discussion section as well
 
What is the benefit of SAA's anyway? Sorry for my ignorance but I haven't really looked into them that much...
 
De__eB said:
Everyone has still constantly some things to learn ;)
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“Wisdom cannot be imparted. Wisdom that a wise man attempts to impart always sounds like foolishness to someone else ... Knowledge can be communicated, but not wisdom. One can find it, live it, do wonders through it, but one cannot communicate and teach it.”-Hermann Hesse
 
"Sadly most have no idea of what faith is because it is counter-intellectual and counter-logical/reasonable and therefore they reject it. Sadly far too many very intelligent people are victims of themselves. They have great intellectual capacity to define and metaphore what a paradox principle is yet are completely and hopelessly powerless to live by it. "-David Dunn
 
mtinsideout said:
What is the benefit of SAA's anyway? Sorry for my ignorance but I haven't really looked into them that much...
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an amino chain unique in nature and sourcing, that may help provide more recovery/anti-oxidant protection/and endurance levels
another form of aminos, to add to the profile matrix you currently consume
 
De__eB said:
So back on topic, is there an SAA product on the market that contains actual hydrolyzed silk protein with the associated sericin-s peptides?

Because:

-Finaflex
-TrueNutrition
-BPI

appear to not be the material I'm looking for.

Any more obscure online brands selling it perhaps?

Side note: I've got nothing personal against snag, he's just a sales rep doing his job, and he does it well.
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Really interested in knowing this as well.
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
an amino chain unique in nature and sourcing, that may help provide more recovery/anti-oxidant protection/and endurance levels
another form of aminos, to add to the profile matrix you currently consume
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Thanks for the info
 
mtinsideout said:
What is the benefit of SAA's anyway? Sorry for my ignorance but I haven't really looked into them that much...
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Animal research shows some increased time to failure, as well as some minor metabolic changes.

Keep in mind that this information hasn't been backed up by any published data in humans yet.

You also probably can't actually buy a supplement with the peptides desired in it at the moment, since it looks like nobody manufacturing SAA products is actually using hydrolyzed silk protein. ;)
 
the first go-round with the start of this thread was "supposedly" to find a product that contain hydrolyzed silk..

now, it is promulgated by the very same individual who claims above, that no such research shows valid effects in humans...

hmmm, was waiting for the other inevitable shoe to drop, as I knew it would
some things are so predictable


in any event: to the forum in general, we are in the process of contacting the ppl involved in the study, for clarification on the text of the published data and what was used..will advise when I find out more information

thanks
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
the first go-round with the start of this thread was "supposedly" to find a product that contain hydrolyzed silk..now, it is promulgated by the very same individual who claims above, that no such research shows valid effects in humans...hmmm, was waiting for the other inevitable shoe to drop, as I knew it wouldsome things are so predictablein any event: to the forum in general, we are in the process of contacting the ppl involved in the study, for clarification on the text of the published data and what was used..will advise when I find out more informationthanks
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Why are you so mad/defensive all the time?

Lots of stuff isn't validated by published data in humans, that doesn't mean it's not worth looking into further. Can't do that without the proper material though. Which is what I'm trying to find.
 
De__eB said:
Why are you so mad/defensive all the time?

Lots of stuff isn't validated by published data in humans, that doesn't mean it's not worth looking into further. Can't do that without the proper material though. Which is what I'm trying to find.
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exogenous androgen perhaps?
 
De__eB said:
Lots of stuff isn't validated by published data in humans, that doesn't mean it's not worth looking into further.
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exactly my point

assuming a hydrolyzed protein was indeed used for this study (we are not too sure of this yet, as there is mention of both free form and hydrolyzed in there), why are you so convinced that our product will NOT provide equivalent results to a hydrolyzed source when we are utilizing same sourcing/same profile % of aminos, just different form?

please explain
 
De__eB said:
Why are you so mad/defensive all the time?

Lots of stuff isn't validated by published data in humans, that doesn't mean it's not worth looking into further. Can't do that without the proper material though. Which is what I'm trying to find.
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1. It appears to be his natural psyche

2. This is why I NEVER jump on the bandwagon of ANY new product, it seems that everything is now the over-hyped "Holy Grail" of supps. I wait for a while for anecdotal evidence as well, and there are particular members whom I trust as valid sources of information.
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
exactly my point

assuming a hydrolyzed protein was indeed used for this study (we are not too sure of this yet, as there is mention of both free form and hydrolyzed in there), why are you so convinced that our product will NOT provide equivalent results to a hydrolyzed source when we are utilizing same sourcing just different form?

please explain
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Because, a hydrolyzed protein would contain Sericin-S peptides where as utilizing just free form amino acids would not.

Peptides are biologically active in a huge number of body processes. Peptides are the target of a massive amount of pharmaceutical research.

--

As for why I don't think that the free form amino acids would have the same affects, I really think the best way to explain is to redirect your question back at you.

If you assume that the effects shown in the studies are solely based off of the effects of the free form amino acids, then why silkworm cocoons? Why not just any other amino acids, since an individual amino acid is exactly the same regardless of source.

A free form amino acid is a free form amino acid. A molecule of free form alanine from silk is the exact same thing as a molecule of free form alanine from beef.

Why would they behave in some different way due to source when a molecule has no memory or knowledge of source? Why would they behave any differently than BPI or TrueNutritions "SAA"s that are just regular free form aminos in the ratios found in silk protein?

Therefore the assumption in much of the published research is that it is the peptide content of silk protein that is responsible for its differing effects compared to general free form amino acids.

--
 
I will not speak on other companies and what formulation they choose to use..that is their business and no concern of mine
what I will say however: we have chosen to not use a synthetic amino derivative that is not from silkworm, as it does not present a complete chain, in comparison

we are the only company in existence (to my knowledge) that utilizes this source for such a product
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
I will not speak on other companies and what formulation they choose to use..that is their business and no concern of minewhat I will say however: we have chosen to not use a synthetic amino derivative that is not from silkworm, as it does not present a complete chain, in comparison
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Do you understand the science you're trying to discuss? It really feels like you don't, and I'm not saying that trying to be rude.

What is the 'complete chain' are you talking about? A chain of amino acids would be a peptide or protein.

An individual amino acid would be no different regardless of if it's synthetic or from silkworm. The only thing intrinsic to silk protein with regards to a 'complete chain' would be a chain of amino acids in the form of a peptide (Sericin) that isn't found in other protein sources, and wouldn't exist in a batch of mixed synthetic aminos.
 
a complete chain reference would be identical to ff as indicated used in the study..and yes (again) derived from silkworm

as to the sericin reference from peptide - yes you are correct there, and explicitly why we do not advertise that we have it in our product..i have never disputed this point

as stated, we are awaiting communication from the ppl involved in the study, for further clarification
no need to discuss further, will report back with our findings
 
I have faith in our product. So much so that me and the rest of the guys are gonna give some away. Check it out.

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iparatroop said:
I have faith in our product. So much so that me and the rest of the guys are gonna give some away. Check it out.

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And that's how you do that!
 
DIRECT FROM THE MANUFACTURER OF THE SAAs

copy of excerpt from the manufacturer, to the owner of our company:



Basically I believe there is no peptides of different sizes involved, however this could be custom made

in case you feel peptides of different sizes is what you prefer for the SAA, this is not difficult for us



Sericin and Fibroin are only the names of different form of silk protein, so it is impossible for SAA to

contain Sericin or Fibroin, actually SAA are hydrolysate of sericin or fibroin
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thank you all for your patience in this matter
we continue to strongly support our product, and believe it is simply the best of a unique idea of formulation that only a handful of companies are attempting to explore at this time..we will continue to Redefine the industry with ground-breaking products :)
 
Nice work Snags and Finaflex :)
 
Yes, obviously an amino acid is the hydrolysate of peptides, which are the hydrolysates of whole protein. That's what hydrolysis is...breaking a protein into peptides and peptides into amino acids.
 
Snags had it covered from the get-go. If a product contains amino acids (of any form) then why would it contain silk protein?.

Snags and iparatroop handled it well :D
 
Jiigzz said:
Snags had it covered from the get-go. If a product contains amino acids (of any form) then why would it contain silk protein?.

Snags and iparatroop handled it well :D
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That's what my very first [serious] post said too...it doesn't say "hydrolyzed silk protein," therefore it has to be just free form amino acids
 
Been a while since I had read a whole thread comment by comment oO De__eb is smart...I don't like his methods though, but nice information :) thanks. So in a way to understand this...

-The name SAA "Silk-Amino-Acids" is the name the company labeled it's Free Amino Acid product, because the source of those amino acids are from SILK WORK, hence "SAA" , a semantics game if you may?

and so...

-Sericin-S is a Peptide derived from Hydrolizing Silk Protein?

Alas SAA =/= Sericin-S...and SAA=Free form aminos FROM Silk worms. And since no company has come hence forth to claim they have Sericin-S in their products, it was just a misunderstanding from a creative Semantic use of the name...This does not mean Finaflex's product isn't good, it just means it does not contain the Peptides De__eb "accidentally" thought they had because he did not understand where the name came from.

Point being...Finaflex has a good product, just not the product he is looking for ;)! And he has another hidden agenda perhaps trying to call out a NEW product coming to the market...why do it this way? Who knows...smart man, but damn that was a kind of mean way to put things De__eb :/
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
copy of excerpt from the manufacturer, to the owner of our company:

Basically I believe there is no peptides of different sizes involved, however this could be custom made

in case you feel peptides of different sizes is what you prefer for the SAA, this is not difficult for us



Sericin and Fibroin are only the names of different form of silk protein, so it is impossible for SAA to

contain Sericin or Fibroin, actually SAA are hydrolysate of sericin or fibroin




thank you all for your patience in this matter
we continue to strongly support our product, and believe it is simply the best of a unique idea of formulation that only a handful of companies are attempting to explore at this time..we will continue to Redefine the industry with ground-breaking products :)
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This is simply...not true...your manufacturer seems to lack basic understanding of what's going on here...

Sericin = protein

Sericin-L & Sericin-S = peptides

These peptides are demonstrated to both exist and show increased potency in both of the following studies:

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Both of these studies validate the existence and absorption of Sericin-S peptides hydrolyzed from the protein sericin within silk amino acid preparations.
 
De__eB said:
This is simply...not true...your manufacturer seems to lack basic understanding of what's going on here...

Sericin = protein

Sericin-L & Sericin-S = peptides

These peptides are demonstrated to both exist and show increased potency in both of the following studies:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Both of these studies validate the existence and absorption of Sericin-S peptides hydrolyzed from the protein sericin within silk amino acid preparations.
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Whoa, you're telling me Sericin will create the michael jackson effect?
 
De__eB said:
This is simply...not true...your manufacturer seems to lack basic understanding of what's going on here...

Sericin = protein

Sericin-L & Sericin-S = peptides

These peptides are demonstrated to both exist and show increased potency in both of the following studies:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Both of these studies validate the existence and absorption of Sericin-S peptides hydrolyzed from the protein sericin within silk amino acid preparations.
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Can I just ask yah why keep up with it? In a polite way that is...you already got your point across. Now , what's the REAL intent of this thread? You know none of this companies have Sericin-C or Hydrolized Silk peptides...so what are you REALLY after?

Or are you just bored...and wanted to come in and say: "Hey guys, the sky is blue and grass is green, but you hadn't noticed! So here's the info!" I doubt that :D! Cut to the case hombre ;)!
 
mr.cooper69 said:
That's what my very first [serious] post said too...it doesn't say "hydrolyzed silk protein," therefore it has to be just free form amino acids
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Exactly. From what I've seen around and about De_eB stirs the pot a little to see how companies and reps are able to answer questions and how well they understand their products. Makes for interesting reading.
 
De__eB said:
This is simply...not true...your manufacturer seems to lack basic understanding of what's going on here...

Sericin = protein

Sericin-L & Sericin-S = peptides

These peptides are demonstrated to both exist and show increased potency in both of the following studies:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Both of these studies validate the existence and absorption of Sericin-S peptides hydrolyzed from the protein sericin within silk amino acid preparations.
Click to expand...

Peptides are small groups of amino acids yes? Silk Amino Acids have the amino profile of a silk protein but not in the form of peptide chains therefore they can claim to be silk amino acids as that is what they are.

If someone made a product called beef amino acids then I would expect an amino acid profile (not in protein or peptide form) of that of beef.
 
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