bump
do you have any info on trenadrol by kilo sports.It's 1,4 Bold. It is the same as 1,4 AD, which was first brought to the market by Molecular Nutrition. I have listed the first company (to my knowledge) that brought the compound to the market. In the case of Havoc/Epistane/Hemaguno, I felt they all hit the market at about the same time, making it a 3 way tie.
see profile for M-TRN. It is a 'clone' of ALRI's Methoxy TRNdo you have any info on trenadrol by kilo sports.
M1T is still the devil.............:smite:what about m1t since a fair amt of ppl use it still
I think it was Methyl-XT = M1AWhere does ESTs Methyl XT fit into this? Ive heard it is similar to M1T, but I haven't really found anything conclusive about it.
It seems that the feedback on Trenadrol is quite different than that of M-TRN. I think there is some debate over what it really is. I have no experience with either, just going by what seems to be the general concensus.see profile for M-TRN. It is a 'clone' of ALRI's Methoxy TRN
Where does ESTs Methyl XT fit into this? Ive heard it is similar to M1T, but I haven't really found anything conclusive about it.I think it was Methyl-XT = M1A
Its methylated 1-AD. It doesn't act like either Methyl 1-T, 1-T, or 1-AD in its effects(Its a Methyl 1-A clone with a few additives). Honestly, this is a great compound for strength gains(to the point where you try and be a bit careful while lifting, so you won't injure yourself). Weight gains are marginal, with the highest repoted gains being 12lbs by a newb(most experienced users net around 5-7lbs). I'm actually involved with EST, so while I haven't ran this one, I'm more than a little familiar with it. Most users experience sides comparable to Pheraplex, but there have been a few that have said it was worse than superdrol for them.
Familiar with it, curious as to the companys rep? I am going to run halodrol or clone (don't think its even available) and ?for info on the tren prohormone, check out the info on finigenX as this is the same ingredient.
I forgot propadrol, also consideredFamiliar with it, curious as to the companys rep? I am going to run halodrol or clone (don't think its even available) and ?
My three choices
Havoc
furaza
?
For the record, my only bad experience was with a progestin, Methyl 1P:rasp:
Awesome sticky btw:thumbsup:for info on the tren prohormone, check out the info on finigenX as this is the same ingredient.
havoc has worked well enough so far, that I am not going to complicate things by adding anything. I will save that for next year:thumbsup:Familiar with it, curious as to the companys rep? I am going to run halodrol or clone (don't think its even available) and ?
My three choices
Havoc
furaza
?
For the record, my only bad experience was with a progestin, Methyl 1P:rasp:
http://www.discountanabolics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7766The difference between "wet" and "dry" steroids/phs is water retention. Water retention is caused by estrogen through aromatase.
Wikipedia: Aromatase is an enzyme of the cytochrome P450 superfamily (EC 1.14.14.1), whose function is to aromatize androgens (that is, to selectively increase their aromaticity), producing estrogens. As such, it is an important factor in sexual development.
Effectively: Aromatase is when excess testosterone converts to estrogen.
WET:
M1,4ADD
Phera
M1T (and subsequent legal variants/clones)
*Superdrol
DRY:
Bold
Epithios
Tren
*Superdrol
Halodrol
Winztrol
Furazadrol
Prop
STRENGTH:
Tren
Superdrol
M1T(and legal clones)
Phera
M14ADD
On the strength category there are probably more, but from what I hear those are the biggies.
Prohormone Classification
Steroids are classified under 2 categories. Class I has a strong binding to the androgen receptor. Class II does not bind to the androgen receptors, rather it works through other means in the body.
Simply put:
Class I = binds to androgen receptor
Class II = does not.
These prohormones classifications are based on thier steroid counterparts. If there are any revisions needed PLEASE message me.
Class I
Boldenone based phs - 1,4AD & Bold
Trenbolone based phs - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
Testosterone based phs - Methyl 1 Testosterone
Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based phs - Epithio & Clones (Havoc/Epistane/so on so forth)
Class II
Masteron (Dromostanolone) based phs - Superdrol & Clones
Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone) based phs - Halodrol & Clones
Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based phs - M1,4ADD etc
Winstrol (stanozolol) based phs - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
Furazabol (miotolan) based phs - Furazadrol etc
Propadrol
Pheraplex & Clones
4-AD
Not Prohormones...
AMS's products - test boosters
Testabolan - ecdysterone
Mass Tabs - test boosters
Superdrol NG - Prasterone = DHEA, Methyl Xanthine = Caffine, Aprodine HCL = Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, ATD - test booster/aromatase inhibitor
If you plan on stacking two prohormones at the same time, the best combinations are class I mixed with a class II. For example SD/Bold, Halo/Tren, M1T/Prop, and so on..
Here's why, effectively when you take a class 1/class 1 stack, you're theoretically limiting your body's ability to suck up the little steroid molecules you're pumping into it. Think of it like a burger joint parking lot at lunchtime. There are no parking spots available, and you're stuck lying in wait for a spot to open up. It's the same situation for a dual class 1 stack.
However, with a class 1/class 2 combination while one pro hormone floats around binding to the androgen receptor, the other little guy is busy attaching itself to other parts of the body to encourage growth.
Mass tabs were not prohormones THEY WERE STERIODS! MethySten (TM) = Methyl Stenbolone. Nice how they play it off as a test booster huh?Not Prohormones...
Mass Tabs - test boosters
A simple google search will come up with much of the products, some can be difficult to locate if discontinued, and our sponsors definately have some of the products listed.i have been cycling on and off for about 20 yrs, have tried just about everything there is, but i just joined this site and after reading of all these designer roids that i have never heard of, how long has most of this stuff been around, and where would i purchase it because right now i just go to Tijuana, since i live in san diego where i get the normal decca, winny, sustenon 250ect. thank u
I am new to this site and was reading some of the threads, i feel like i woke up and am in a different world, i have always used steriods and had incredible, incredible gains and now i come to this site and i read about prohormones, what is that? and 17 methyl bol and m1p and the list is just endless. Are these supplements or what is all this stuff. Is it just the sponsers of this site pushing their product? I mean i have tried so many things from creatine and VO2 and HMB, etc. all this stuff that was supposedly great and i never ever got close to the results i got when i was on the juice.
So my question to all u that are knowlegeable with these products is how comparable are they to being on the juice, maybe they arent as effective but have less side effects i dont know. What would be the most effective stack to take for strength, , muscle gain and at the same time staying relatively cut, i know what i would take if i was on the juice.
thank u for your time and hpefully u can educate me ,
good post!As reiterated all over the board... The compounds that you inquire about are technically and chemically steroids, very few 'pro-hormones' are left on the market. They are different formulations upon and modifications of things that you have probably already had experience with. Many of the products are methylated, so as to compare to 'juice,' one should not and cannot really compare to an injectable steroid, but maybe other orals. There were readily available oil based and transdermal versions of prohormones in past years, but those are gone as well. : (
As compared to HMB, CLA, ZMA, and many others, there is no viable comparisons in terms of strength and muscle aggregation. Creatine suits many well in terms of assistance or aid in a workout program, but by and large is not closely comparable in the fact that you change your lifestyle/ habits (such as eating habits and workout routine) based on a compound you ingest.
All the information in this thread and for the most part on this board is factual and from real world results, no merely marketing hype to sell a product. This board offers ideology to techniques, such as 'pulsing' that if you are unfamiliar with you should read up on; then form your own thoughts regarding if it is something you would want to try.
Is it true that many of the sponsors of AM produce the weightlifting supplements, yes. As do countless other companies. But, the companies of AM are reputable as stated by thousands and you can compare the results of others who take the same product. Many of our sponsors run tests on their products to display their integrity to our world of physical fitness.
Other companies, Nutraplanet being key, is an online retailer that sells various products by various companies at great prices. I have about 10 of their wonderful T-Shirts.
But to answer your question about what you should take. LOL
What's my fee?
Take 11-oxo and Havoc or Epistane (or one of the other clones) for 4-6 weeks or pulse.
:type:
this is the pulsing thread, it has a ton of good info...Well thank u for your time and information, there is nothing worse than to be misinformed or uneducated and harming yourself. So what is the difference between the regular steriods i have taken, and these newer desiger products, they both seem to have side effects? and i looked up pulsing and i got everything from planetary pulsing to arterial pulsing, is there a link u can direct me to.
I have always thought that bodybuilders are like a brotherhood and should share their knowledge and experiences like is being done here, what results should i expect with the stack u recommended, thank u very much for you time and education . Also i keep reading superdrol, gives good results are the side effects not worth it, kind of like Anadrol 50, which is very good but is very toxic on the liver
Well thank u for all your information, i was reading the steriods forum and read u were on your 12th week of test cypionate, so my question is i am a professional wrestler and had a hip replacement and had some other complications so i was away from the gym for a year and had a bunch of medicines that made me gain weiight so now that i am back, i didnt want to get back into anything toxic like anadrol 50, i think 20 yrs of jucing there comes a time when u gotta look into milder things, especially since i already have a foundation and experience.this is the pulsing thread, it has a ton of good info...
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/62121-how-pulse-orals.html
superdrol is good, although you're right, it is liver toxic and does a number on your lipids as well. i experienced a 15lb gain in lbm my first cycle, which was only from 3 weeks of being on. of course those were first cycle gains but i have experienced at least 6-8 lbs lbm each cycle since.
havoc and epistane are the same compound from different manufacturers. these compounds are a bit milder than superdrol. they have both been run and logged quite a lot on this board and the majority of users experience significant increases in strength and size. this one and superdrol both are very popular compounds to pulse btw.
Hey koman,Well thank u for all your information, i was reading the steriods forum and read u were on your 12th week of test cypionate, so my question is i am a professional wrestler and had a hip replacement and had some other complications so i was away from the gym for a year and had a bunch of medicines that made me gain weiight so now that i am back, i didnt want to get back into anything toxic like anadrol 50, i think 20 yrs of jucing there comes a time when u gotta look into milder things, especially since i already have a foundation and experience.
I was going to stack equapoise wth test cyp and some decca, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, no orals, but then i read about all these other things on here, these designer roids, so my question to u since u have used both. Do u use both, one over the other, help for someone who is kind of confused, i dont want to waste my time, if staying on the juice is going to give me better results, but if i can get similar results with less side effects then i will use the designer roids, thank u
well this is my first injectable cycle i'm on right now and have never experienced these types of gains with the oral designer cycles i have ran in the past. but, i think you hit the nail right on the head when you asked if you can get similar results with less side effects. you already know that everything that gives good results is going to have some sort of sides. with that said, i would go with a 5-6 week havoc or epistane (same thing) cycle or a longer pulse cycle if thats what you decide to do. after this test cycle, i am definitely a bigger fan of the longer steady gains rather than the quick sudden 10-15lb gain in a couple weeks so a pulse would be good imo. you could easily get 10-15 lbs out of a longer pulse and it sounds like you've been natural for a little while so you should respond quite well. run some test with a pulse and you'd have great gains with little sides.Well thank u for all your information, i was reading the steriods forum and read u were on your 12th week of test cypionate, so my question is i am a professional wrestler and had a hip replacement and had some other complications so i was away from the gym for a year and had a bunch of medicines that made me gain weiight so now that i am back, i didnt want to get back into anything toxic like anadrol 50, i think 20 yrs of jucing there comes a time when u gotta look into milder things, especially since i already have a foundation and experience.
I was going to stack equapoise wth test cyp and some decca, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, no orals, but then i read about all these other things on here, these designer roids, so my question to u since u have used both. Do u use both, one over the other, help for someone who is kind of confused, i dont want to waste my time, if staying on the juice is going to give me better results, but if i can get similar results with less side effects then i will use the designer roids, thank u
Hey koman,
The majority of the effective designers are methylated and therefore will be the same toxicity wise as if you are taking Anadrol or dbol. I think that if you are wanting to cycle effectively and safely with little or no toxicity, the cycle that you mentioned with test, EQ and Deca would be the way to go. I'm curious however, why you would go 2 weeks on and two weeks off though?? Test cyp and deca are longer lasting esters and cycling this way wouldn't mitigate HTPA shut down. If it were me, I would run 500-600mg test cyp, 400-600mg deca 15 weeks and pulse an effective designer such as Superdrol or Epistane/Havoc on your Workout days for weeks 1-8... Just my $.02 Welcome to AM, by the way.
well this is my first injectable cycle i'm on right now and have never experienced these types of gains with the oral designer cycles i have ran in the past. but, i think you hit the nail right on the head when you asked if you can get similar results with less side effects. you already know that everything that gives good results is going to have some sort of sides. with that said, i would go with a 5-6 week havoc or epistane (same thing) cycle or a longer pulse cycle if thats what you decide to do. after this test cycle, i am definitely a bigger fan of the longer steady gains rather than the quick sudden 10-15lb gain in a couple weeks so a pulse would be good imo. you could easily get 10-15 lbs out of a longer pulse and it sounds like you've been natural for a little while so you should respond quite well. run some test with a pulse and you'd have great gains with little sides.
Yeah. I don't know what I was thinking about when I had typed that up. Fixed that one.I don't think 11-OXO binds to the corticosteroid receptor, it simply blocks the 11HSD1R enzyme that converts cortisone to cortisol.
Any methyl will have a significant liver toxicity as the methylation makes the steroid unable to form a ketone at 17. The amount of damage it does is correlated slightly by androgenic ratio; therefore, there's a signficant difference between the amount of damage done by dbol versus anadrol.Hey koman,
The majority of the effective designers are methylated and therefore will be the same toxicity wise as if you are taking Anadrol or dbol. I think that if you are wanting to cycle effectively and safely with little or no toxicity, the cycle that you mentioned with test, EQ and Deca would be the way to go. I'm curious however, why you would go 2 weeks on and two weeks off though?? Test cyp and deca are longer lasting esters and cycling this way wouldn't mitigate HTPA shut down. If it were me, I would run 500-600mg test cyp, 400-600mg deca 15 weeks and pulse an effective designer such as Superdrol or Epistane/Havoc on your Workout days for weeks 1-8... Just my $.02 Welcome to AM, by the way.
I've seen some old protocols for 2ON, 4OFF, repeat, repeat. However, there were more fast acting less toxic legal options out there when this was popular. I'm not sure your choices for this strategy run any deeper than superdrol clones. And, the gains would likely be disappointing for someone who already has experience with gear IMO.Well i have never done two weeks on and two weeks off, but i have a couple of friends in my business who do it like that and look great, and its almost similar to the "pulsing" method i was just introduced to, in that u dont need to have so much **** in u all the time, spread it out a little and u can use it longer with good results and very little side effects, so thats why i was going to try it. 2 questions better to use superdrol or epistane/havoc, i know the latter are milder, but which gives better results? And what post cycle therapy would be good after using these products, thank u for your time
So i think my question would be if u get better gains using gear why would someone use stuff like superdrol because according to what i have been told it also can be toxic on the liver, is it because its legal. Also i want to take a testosterone creme from mexico called lowtiyel, anybody had an experience with it. Probably one of the few things i have never tried but i have heard test cremes are goodI've seen some old protocols for 2ON, 4OFF, repeat, repeat. However, there were more fast acting less toxic legal options out there when this was popular. I'm not sure your choices for this strategy run any deeper than superdrol clones. And, the gains would likely be disappointing for someone who already has experience with gear IMO.
superdrol gives extremely good results man. i would say its definitely right there with dbol. not as 'wet' of a compound, its actually rather dry. but the strength and mass increases are definitely up there.So i think my question would be if u get better gains using gear why would someone use stuff like superdrol because according to what i have been told it also can be toxic on the liver, is it because its legal. Also i want to take a testosterone creme from mexico called lowtiyel, anybody had an experience with it. Probably one of the few things i have never tried but i have heard test cremes are good
Dude, your post sounds like you are a Federal agent or something. You have been cycling on and off for 20 years and never heard of PH's. You are comparing creatine to roids? I do not want to welcome you by bashing but if you are not a Fed, then you spend way too much time reading the NY Times.I am new to this site and was reading some of the threads, i feel like i woke up and am in a different world, i have always used steriods and had incredible, incredible gains and now i come to this site and i read about prohormones, what is that? and 17 methyl bol and m1p and the list is just endless. Are these supplements or what is all this stuff. Is it just the sponsers of this site pushing their product? I mean i have tried so many things from creatine and VO2 and HMB, etc. all this stuff that was supposedly great and i never ever got close to the results i got when i was on the juice.
So my question to all u that are knowlegeable with these products is how comparable are they to being on the juice, maybe they arent as effective but have less side effects i dont know. What would be the most effective stack to take for strength, , muscle gain and at the same time staying relatively cut, i know what i would take if i was on the juice.
thank u for your time and hpefully u can educate me ,