Coop's Corner #5: Verbascoside/Lemon Verbena Extract

[Pec.Major]

When will this great compound (Lemon Verbena) be back again PES?
Why was it excluded from AMINO-IV?

 

[kbayne]

When will this great compound (Lemon Verbena) be back again PES?
Why was it excluded from AMINO-IV?

Not sure if/when it will be sold as a solo product.

It was pulled because of flavor and color issues.

 

[dave39]

When will this great compound (Lemon Verbena) be back again PES?
Why was it excluded from AMINO-IV?

Because it was not worth the hype or price.

 

[Afi140]

Because it was not worth the hype or price.

Thanks for the contribution. Evidence to support that or are you just saying words?

 

[dave39]

Experience, reviews, and lack of anyone else bothering with it. Hot ticket items are usually hot for reason, hence why this never heated up

 

[Afi140]

Experience, reviews, and lack of anyone else bothering with it. Hot ticket items are usually hot for reason, hence why this never heated up

Lol. Not quite. That's pretty hilarious though.

Biogro was hot, and well, we all know it's a joke. A large majority of "hot" products are due to marketing and uninformed consumers not because of product effectiveness.

Amino iv was the only product to use it which people LOVED. PES changed the formula due to color and perhaps a taste issue. There is absolutely no way you can claim it was ineffective. Unless it's purely your opinion, which means nothing.

Now a capped or bulk version would be a much better gauge of how effective the product is. Until then your statement means nothing.

 

[dave39]

Lol. Not quite. That's pretty hilarious though.

Biogro was hot, and well, we all know it's a joke. A large majority of "hot" products are due to marketing and uninformed consumers not because of product effectiveness.

Amino iv was the only product to use it which people LOVED. PES changed the formula due to color and perhaps a taste issue. There is absolutely no way you can claim it was ineffective. Unless it's purely your opinion, which means nothing.

Now a capped or bulk version would be a much better gauge of how effective the product is. Until then your statement means nothing.

Well in that case every review on strong supplements means nothing? Please come back when you can prove to the masses that your opinion is any more valid than mine or other reviewers

 

[Afi140]

Because it was not worth the hype or price.

You must have short term memory loss. YOU made the claim. I haven't made a single claim. I am just saying your initial statement is laughable due to the implausibility. It was in a blend of MANY ingredients. Science supports it. If you would like to see science that refutes your opinion, please refer to page 1. So until you try it solo and in a controlled setting, feel free to move along.

 

[Jiigzz]

Well in that case every review on strong supplements means nothing? Please come back when you can prove to the masses that your opinion is any more valid than mine or other reviewers

Epic, pure epic strawman

 

[dave39]

You must have short term memory loss. YOUmade the claim. I haven't made a single claim. I am just saying your initial statement is laughable due to the implausibility. It was in a blend of MANY ingredients. Science supports it. So until you try it solo and in a controlled setting, feel free to move along.

Science "supports" all kinds of things. I'm so tired of hearing about the bullsh1t science and testing behind these products that produce zero to minimal impact on performance. EVERY supplement company has a variety of supplements and guess what... Everyone who takes them wonders to themselves "is this working". There are only a few supplements that are actually worth buying. If you want to spend your money on some lemon herbs than go for it, you're entitled to do what you want with your money. I will do the same and I will share my thoughts and experience in an effort to help people make informed decisions. If you don't agree with my experience than all the power to you, but that doesn't make it any less valuable than anyone else's.
Some of you reps are worse than door to door vacuum salesman. Just swallow and accept the fact that you are a peon in a game where only a select few get to roll around in ferraris. Enjoy your sup samples.

 

[dave39]

Epic, pure epic strawman

Just like so much of the "science" behind certain supplements.

 

[Afi140]

So I guess you prefer anecdotal feedback over science?

I am not a rep for PES and we don't even carry IV. I bought it with my own money.

But if this will help you---based on my anecdotal feedback, IV was a very good product and had a little extra something, which I attribute to the lemon verbena.

Are we good now? Pure anecdotal like you prefer

Have a merry Christmas Dave. No hard feelings

 

[dave39]

So I guess you prefer anecdotal feedback over science?

I am not a rep for PES and we don't even carry IV. I bought it with my own money.

But if this will help you---based on my anecdotal feedback, IV was a very good product and had a little extra something, which I attribute to the lemon verbena.

Are we good now? Pure anecdotal like you prefer

Have a merry Christmas Dave. No hard feelings

And I respect your feedback. I'm happy that it worked well for you
Merry Christmas Afi

 

[Jiigzz]

Just like so much of the "science" behind certain supplements.

If science is valuable, I hope you dont ever need to rely on it.



Oh wait

While I can see your point, your ignorance of science and protocols doesnt serve you any favors

 

[dave39]

If science is valuable, I hope you dont ever need to rely on it.



Oh wait

I'm assuming you meant to say "if it's not valuable"?
In which case yes it is very valuable, just not the way certain supplement companies use it to create false hope for consumers looking for products that actually produce noticeable benefits.

 

[Woody]

Because it was not worth the hype or price.

You did this in the Olympus Labs release thread. If you are so against supplements why are you on a supplement forum?

 

[T-Bone]

You did this in the Olympus Labs release thread. If you are so against supplements why are you on a supplement forum?

He is stating his opinion, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean he should keep silent. I for one like reading differences of opinion on supplements. What annoys me is constant hype of certain companies and products, and then when someone doesn't agree or has a difference of opinion all of a sudden it's a problem. Sort of like this.

 

[dave39]

You did this in the Olympus Labs release thread. If you are so against supplements why are you on a supplement forum?

I'm not against all supps Woody. I just have an opinion on certain ones that I've experienced. At the end of the day it's just my opinion but as I consumer I trust fellow reviewers to be honest more than the companies producing these products. They do it to make money - consumers try to educate other consumers with their experiences so we aren't all just blinded by the false promises that come along with most supplements.

 

[dave39]

He is stating his opinion, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean he should keep silent. I for one like reading differences of opinion on supplements. What annoys me is constant hype of certain companies and products, and then when someone doesn't agree or has a difference of opinion all of a sudden it's a problem. Sort of like this.

That herd mentality is exactly what makes so many people emotional when someone steps outside the box and disagrees.
Example: Some people on here talk about things like soy lethin granules as being this amazing bodybuilding discovery yet everyone who crams this stuff down sees little to no body comp change... Yet people continue to choke it down hoping to look like Arnold. It's like watching bugs fly into the light zapper right after watching others get zapped before them

 

[bighulksmash]

That herd mentality is exactly what makes so many people emotional when someone steps outside the box and disagrees.
Example: Some people on here talk about things like soy lethin granules as being this amazing bodybuilding discovery yet everyone who crams this stuff down sees little to no body comp change... Yet people continue to choke it down hoping to look like Arnold. It's like watching bugs fly into the light zapper right after watching others get zapped before them

This absolutely made my night . I had some rookie try to stand me up earlier today lol kids on his 3rd cycle im well past 35 cycles. Edited for the credit critics itchy finger

 

[muscleupcrohn]

That herd mentality is exactly what makes so many people emotional when someone steps outside the box and disagrees.
Example: Some people on here talk about things like soy lethin granules as being this amazing bodybuilding discovery yet everyone who crams this stuff down sees little to no body comp change... Yet people continue to choke it down hoping to look like Arnold. It's like watching bugs fly into the light zapper right after watching others get zapped before them

Whenever I take PA (concentrated or otherwise), I gain strength and size at a noticeably quicker rate (tracked via weight lifted, scale weight, body measurements, and pictures).

Is it magic? No. Will it fix a bad diet or training program? No. Can it help, especually for the price? I'd say so (especially compared to some of the other crap people use).

 

[bighulksmash]

Whenever I take PA (concentrated or otherwise), I gain strength and size at a noticeably quicker rate (tracked via weight lifted, scale weight, body measurements, and pictures).

Is it magic? No. Will it fix a bad diet or training program? No. Can it help, especually for the price? I'd say so.

Is this a natty supp ?

 

[kboxer7]

Whenever I take PA (concentrated or otherwise), I gain strength and size at a noticeably quicker rate (tracked via weight lifted, scale weight, body measurements, and pictures).

Is it magic? No. Will it fix a bad diet or training program? No. Can it help, especually for the price? I'd say so.

Exact same for me.

I take full measurements, weight, etc. Its legit.

Tr1umph is going to do wonders ; )

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Is this a natty supp ?

Yeah. PA is short for Phosphatidic Acid. It's the stuff in PhosphaMuscle and King, as well as in soy lecithin granules. PhosphaMuscle is convenient for sure, but the lecithin works just as well for me, and it's a lot cheaper. I've had good results with PhosphaMuscle, King V1, and lecithin granules (Fearn, Optima, and Natural Factors). OL's PA product should be good too. I've been saying it was only a matter of time before a company used powdered soy lecithin in a PA product for a while now, and I've been grinding the granules and mixing them with my pre-workout (mixing the powdered pre with the powdered granules before blending/mixing them in water) as my go-to PA source for a while.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

This absolutely made my night . I had some rookie try to stand me up earlier today lol kids on his 3rd cycle im well past 300.

That aint cycling bruv

 

[bighulksmash]

Yeah. PA is short for Phosphatidic Acid. It's the stuff in PhosphaMuscle and King, as well as in soy lecithin granules. PhosphaMuscle is convenient for sure, but the lecithin works just as well for me, and it's a lot cheaper. I've had good results with PhosphaMuscle, King V1, and lecithin granules (Fearn, Optima, and Natural Factors). OL's PA product should be good too. I've been saying it was only a matter of time before a company used powdered soy lecithin in a PA product for a while now, and I've been grinding the granules and mixing them with my pre-workout (mixing the powdered pre with the powdered granules before blending/mixing them in water) as my go-to PA source for a while.

Im very interested in this.

 

[Pec.Major]

Not sure if/when it will be sold as a solo product.

It was pulled because of flavor and color issues.

Okey. Hopefully we can see the product as a stand alone in the future.

 

[Woody]

He is stating his opinion, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean he should keep silent. I for one like reading differences of opinion on supplements. What annoys me is constant hype of certain companies and products, and then when someone doesn't agree or has a difference of opinion all of a sudden it's a problem. Sort of like this.

There's a difference between herd mentality and bashing companies and people who purchase supplements.

 

[ELROCK]

Whenever I take PA (concentrated or otherwise), I gain strength and size at a noticeably quicker rate (tracked via weight lifted, scale weight, body measurements, and pictures).

Is it magic? No. Will it fix a bad diet or training program? No. Can it help, especually for the price? I'd say so (especially compared to some of the other crap people use).

Same here! I think he used a bad example or he is just looking to get too much out of a natty supplement.

 

[ELROCK]

This absolutely made my night . I had some rookie try to stand me up earlier today lol kids on his 3rd cycle im well past 300.

Umm.... Well past 300 cycles?

 

[LEATHERFACE]

I'm not against all supps Woody. I just have an opinion on certain ones that I've experienced. At the end of the day it's just my opinion but as I consumer I trust fellow reviewers to be honest more than the companies producing these products. They do it to make money - consumers try to educate other consumers with their experiences so we aren't all just blinded by the false promises that come along with most supplements.

On this one I have to agree with you kid, the pes hype is really too much, a few mg of differents herbs is not gonna make you gain more muscles. If you don't agree with them? you are a hater.

 

[saggy321]

On this one I have to agree with you kid, the pes hype is really too much, a few mg of differents herbs is not gonna make you gain more muscles. If you don't agree with them? you are a hater.

Same here. Recently the hype and the bias has become somewhat ridiculous.

 

[Woody]

Same here. Recently the hype and the bias has become somewhat ridiculous.

There are a few posters that take the fan boy thing too far. But there are also some posters that take the opposite view too far.

Excluding Protein, Creatine, Fishoil/Joint Supp, and Multi V, I can count on my fingers how many supplements I've used more than once.

 

[T-Bone]

There's a difference between herd mentality and bashing companies and people who purchase supplements.

Sure there is. Disagreeing though, isn't bashing people who purchase supplements.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

300 cycles haha .

Can you show your workings to how you came up with this number?

 

[bighulksmash]

Can you show your workings to how you came up with this number?

It was a joke i have just under 40 cycles . Ill go back and edit the post so no ones hemorrhoids throb over it.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

It was a joke i have just under 40 cycles . Ill go back and edit the post so no ones hemorrhoids throb over it.

LOL no need my man, just wouldn't put it past you to actually have used that many different compounds hahahaah

 

[bighulksmash]

LOL no need my man, just wouldn't put it past you to actually have used that many different compounds hahahaah

I was being sarcastic lol !!! I have 37 legit cycles but with multiple compounds in the range from 4 weeks to 12 months haha .


Iam going to tag you in natty log iam going off aas for 1 yr and i know you know the best natty supps . Itll be up new years !!!!

Cheers lmao! !! :rocketwhore:

 

[kboxer7]

I was being sarcastic lol !!! I have 37 legit cycles but with multiple compounds in the range from 4 weeks to 12 months haha .


Iam going to tag you in natty log iam going off aas for 1 yr and i know you know the best natty supps . Itll be up new years !!!!

Cheers lmao! !! :rocketwhore:

BigHulkSmash going natty is like me switching to decaf for a year lol

 

[NoAddedHmones]

BigHulkSmash going natty is like me switching to decaf for a year lol

Which is basically impossible. Decaf is the pitts.

 

[T-Bone]

Which is basically impossible. Decaf is the pitts.

Decaff, like "Stimulant breaks" are for ladies and girly men.

 

[bighulksmash]

BigHulkSmash going natty is like me switching to decaf for a year lol

Gotta do it bros .... i want to do it as well. Been doin AAS for 15 yrs straight its time to give natty a shot . Ill be logging and probably end up tagging half of AM in it .

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Gotta do it bros .... i want to do it as well. Been doin AAS for 15 yrs straight its time to give natty a shot . Ill be logging and probably end up tagging half of AM in it .

Well this thread is thoroughly derailed anyway...

...what training protocol you looking at doing?

 

[bighulksmash]

Well this thread is thoroughly derailed anyway...

...what training protocol you looking at doing?

Im doing 4 days of 75% 1rm bodybuilding isolation. Then 3 days cardio no full rest days . Just 10 to 12 hrs sleep on the days i dont work . So its a 1 bb 1 c type routine .
Every 4 weeks ill increase the weights and cardio times . Going for the best shape of my life iam maybe 18 % bf going for 12 % as a final resting marker. Not focused on mass gain rather toning and endurance. I figured in 365 of consistent motion with a healthy diet would allow me to get back to my weight of 170lbs . Iam 231 now , its its mostly water from the ridiculous cycles i did so a few rounds of diuretics may piss out most of the chub chub . Nothing set in stone but this is the basic idea of which ill be working on my goals .
Pissing out chub chub was a joke anyone with common sense would know that 60lbs of water is impossible. IT WAS A JOKE , obviously I LEARNED NOT TO MAKE JOKES ANYMORE ... a few post up in post 138 i was cracking jokes im naturally a jokester . Like i said Ill be 100% serious and not enjoy anything on this site all business from now on sorry for trying to make people smile.

 

[xhrr]

Im doing 4 days of 75% 1rm bodybuilding isolation. Then 3 days cardio no full rest days . Just 10 to 12 hrs sleep on the days i dont work . So its a 1 bb 1 c type routine .
Every 4 weeks ill increase the weights and cardio times . Going for the best shape of my life iam maybe 18 % bf going for 12 % as a final resting marker. Not focused on mass gain rather toning and endurance. I figured in 365 of consistent motion with a healthy diet would allow me to get back to my weight of 170lbs . Iam 231 now , its its mostly water from the ridiculous cycles i did so a few rounds of diuretics may piss out most of the chub chub . Nothing set in stone but this is the basic idea of which ill be working on my goals .

So 231 - 170 = 61 lbs and most of it is water weight? I mean lets be realistic. Unless you have anasarca that is in which case carry on.

 

[bighulksmash]

So 231 - 170 = 61 lbs and most of it is water weight? I mean lets be realistic. Unless you have anasarca that is in which case carry on.

Did u read thats for 365 days not 4 weeks ? Im not evem sure what your trying to say here.

 

[Dma378]

Wow some serious nonsense right here. It's easy to see what he's talking about. He pretty much summarized your exact words. 231 down to 170, most of which is water. From 15 years of cycling. Bro this isn't even a shred believable. Or credible. And probably impossible.

15 years of constant cycling and you couldn't figure out how not to hold *cough cough* 50+ lbs. of water? Explain

 

[xhrr]

Did u read thats for 365 days not 4 weeks ? Im not evem sure what your trying to say here.

I don't care if it's a year or 4 weeks nobody holds fifty plus pounds of water weight unless like I said you have anasarca. It's physically impossible that even the majority of a 61 lb weight gain is primarily water. I'm not sure what the confusion is this is common sense.

 

[bighulksmash]

Wow some serious nonsense right here. It's easy to see what he's talking about. He pretty much summarized your exact words. 231 down to 170, most of which is water. From 15 years of cycling. Bro this isn't even a shred believable. Or credible. And probably impossible.

15 years of constant cycling and you couldn't figure out how not to hold *cough cough* 50+ lbs. of water? Explain

Ok ill rephrase my self ... there was alot of water probably most of which has been depleted 5 or so lbs not 50 . No i didn't mean 50 lbs of water come on dma seriously? Im not going to argue over a messed up phrase.

 

[bighulksmash]

I don't care if it's a year or 4 weeks nobody holds fifty plus pounds of water weight unless like I said you have anasarca. It's physically impossible that even the majority of a 61 lb weight gain is primarily water. I'm not sure what the confusion is this is common sense.

I never said i was what the fuk?