Coop's Corner #4: Alpha-2 Antagonism? Yes Please.

[luckylefty811]

would yohimbine help someone with high body fat such as my self 19% or should i keep cutting and wait.

 

[mtinsideout]

would yohimbine help someone with high body fat such as my self 19% or should i keep cutting and wait.

I believe it would but the effect would not be as noticeable... If men at 10%bf are losing 2% after a month of yohimbine usage then someone at closer to 20%bf will probably only lose 1%bf. Hopefully Coop or someone can confirm this though?

 

[kissdadookie]

would yohimbine help someone with high body fat such as my self 19% or should i keep cutting and wait.

Keep cutting through activity and diet. When you reach down low enough where you come close to or hit up against a wall, then introduce a fat cutting stack.

 

[kbayne]

Keep cutting through activity and diet. When you reach down low enough where you come close to or hit up against a wall, then introduce a fat cutting stack.

This. At 19% BF, you can lose quite a bit of that through diet and exercise alone.

 

[ion26]

Took all 15 mg this morning preworkout along with my alphamine. Felt fine. I'm at 8% bf at the moment. Hopefully I can get down to 5% in a month on this stuff

 

[Mikeyjd]

would yohimbine help someone with high body fat such as my self 19% or should i keep cutting and wait.

From what I understand the Yohimbine may help with areas that have a higher concentration of A2 receptors which tend to be the areas that lose fat last. It's better to focus on what can be lost without the inhibitors, then use it when needed. You probably wouldn't notice much if any increase in fat lost at your bf%.

 

[sina]

What other things do most add with Y. HCL to make it more effective I would imagine: 1. Erase Pro 2. Forskoliin95%, 3. ECA anything else.

 

[Mikeyjd]

What other things do most add with Y. HCL to make it more effective I would imagine: 1. Erase Pro 2. Forskoliin95%, 3. ECA anything else.

I usually see guys mention ECA with Y, then someone else mentions to be very careful with this combination. So.. be careful if you run those together.

For me running ALCAR with stims seems to help with focus and jitters.

 

[aaronuconn]

What other things do most add with Y. HCL to make it more effective I would imagine: 1. Erase Pro 2. Forskoliin95%, 3. ECA anything else.

From Coop's OP:

"Alpha-2 antagonists synergize with anything that potentiates catecholamine release. This means caffeine, exercise, forskolin, and beta-agonists all work exceptionally well with alpha-2 antagonists."

 

[kbayne]

Took all 15 mg this morning preworkout along with my alphamine. Felt fine. I'm at 8% bf at the moment. Hopefully I can get down to 5% in a month on this stuff

Be careful with that. 15mg of Y.HCL along with the SA2-A (yohimbine extract). I am sure you know that already though.

 

[Rhfarris]

I usually see guys mention ECA with Y, then someone else mentions to be very careful with this combination. So.. be careful if you run those together. For me running ALCAR with stims seems to help with focus and jitters.

I've been doing YC first thing in the morning and then eca 4 hours later and have been fine. I wouldn't take them together but 4 to 5 hours apart should be fine to let the yohimbine die down. Also taking Forskolin 95 which not only helps with the fat burning but lowering blood pressure as well. Yeah the alcar is great too with it.

 

[Whacked]

Kudos for the "thinking man's" info

I like this approach/idea

Also taking Forskolin 95 which not only helps with the fat burning but lowering blood pressure as well. Yeah the alcar is great too with it.

 

[kissdadookie]

I've been doing YC first thing in the morning and then eca 4 hours later and have been fine. I wouldn't take them together but 4 to 5 hours apart should be fine to let the yohimbine die down. Also taking Forskolin 95 which not only helps with the fat burning but lowering blood pressure as well. Yeah the alcar is great too with it.

Add some artichoke to that and you will be gtg!

I've never tried that by the way, just heard of artichoke extract + forskolin ='s brain blown. The amount of forskolin we use for fat burning and ergogenic benefits however could be way too much to use in such a combo though

 

[Rhfarris]

Add some artichoke to that and you will be gtg! I've never tried that by the way, just heard of artichoke extract + forskolin ='s brain blown. The amount of forskolin we use for fat burning and ergogenic benefits however could be way too much to use in such a combo though

I've never used artichoke and I hope the forskolin isn't too much cause I'm running 100mg for 12 weeks up until show time. I've ran it before and seemed fine though.

 

[kissdadookie]

I've never used artichoke and I hope the forskolin isn't too much cause I'm running 100mg for 12 weeks up until show time. I've ran it before and seemed fine though.

Supposedly artichoke extract + forskolin makes your mind focus razor sharp. Supposedly, I never tried it myself Was just kidding around more than anything else (but artichoke is a PDE4 inhibitor as well as some other PDEs, so theoretically this makes sense as it would synergize with the forskolin's cAMP promoting qualities, and PDE4 inhibition would be pro-cognitive).

 

[Whacked]

Kissadookie: You have me interested in this artichoke

Can anyone else provide some anecdotal or empirical insight for this stuff?

Supposedly artichoke extract + forskolin makes your mind focus razor sharp. Supposedly, I never tried it myself Was just kidding around more than anything else (but artichoke is a PDE4 inhibitor as well as some other PDEs, so theoretically this makes sense as it would synergize with the forskolin's cAMP promoting qualities, and PDE4 inhibition would be pro-cognitive).

 

[MonteRXS]

Kissadookie: You have me interested in this artichoke Can anyone else provide some anecdotal or empirical insight for this stuff?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-science/234782-forskolin-long-term-post4137449.html

I use AS F95 and from time to time add a PDE4 inhibitor. I haven't tried artichoke extract yet, but have used a Resveratrol. It's hard saying how much of the Resv. is actually acting as a PDE4-i.

I'd say it helps a bit (for me) with concepts while I'm studying. But it's not making me have a "beautiful mind" all of the sudden.

Coop touches on it in the link above... There might be better options that I need to explore.

 

[kissdadookie]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-science/234782-forskolin-long-term-post4137449.html

I use AS F95 and from time to time add a PDE4 inhibitor. I haven't tried artichoke extract yet, but have used a Resveratrol. It's hard saying how much of the Resv. is actually acting as a PDE4-i.

I'd say it helps a bit (for me) with concepts while I'm studying. But it's not making me have a "beautiful mind" all of the sudden.

Coop touches on it in the link above... There might be better options that I need to explore.

Artichoke extract is apparently a pretty good PDE4 inhibitor(for the purpose of what is currently called a CILTEP stack) but there is also Zembrin which is Kanna extract, that one is supposedly very strong for a natural PDE4 inhibitor.

For ref: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/51732-chemically-induced-ltp/

 

[mr.cooper69]

Supposedly artichoke extract + forskolin makes your mind focus razor sharp. Supposedly, I never tried it myself Was just kidding around more than anything else (but artichoke is a PDE4 inhibitor as well as some other PDEs, so theoretically this makes sense as it would synergize with the forskolin's cAMP promoting qualities, and PDE4 inhibition would be pro-cognitive).

Artichoke extract is something of a joke for that purpose compared to Lodhra in ABE, which is incidentally why they are in the same formula

 

[Whacked]

Artichoke extract is something of a joke for that purpose compared to Lodhra in ABE, which is incidentally why they are in the same formula

From some guy named Coop (lol)...,

Lodhra Bark Extract Aka Symplocos Racemosa Extract Phosphodiesterase (PDE) Inhibition PDE inhibitors are used clinically for erectile dysfunction (PDE5i like Viagra), weight loss, and bronchodilation/asthma treatment. Symplocos Racemosa is one of nature's most well-documented phosphodiesterase inhibitors. Phosphodiesterase is the enzyme responsible for breaking down cyclic-AMP (cAMP). cAMP is a second messenger that has beneficial effects like improved fat loss, increased muscle mass, improved thyroid function, and improved steroidogenesis. Indeed, the very reason forskolin works is because it increases levels of cAMP in the body by increasing levels of the enzyme that creates cyclic AMP. A simplified model: Enzyme A -> cAMP pool of the body -> Enzyme B Enzyme A is creating more cAMP for the aforementioned benefits. This is the enzyme that forskolin increases, resulting in the well-documented effects on human body composition. Enzyme B is breaking down cAMP and working against enzyme A. Enzyme B is known as phosphodiesterase (PDE). Symplocos racemosa contains PDE inhibitors, so levels of Enzyme B decrease and levels of cAMP increase. The net result is increased levels of cAMP. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15643556 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hlca.200490018/abstract;jsessionid=54CCC309026FF57634160162876F542D.f03t02?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/12711144/reload=0;jsessionid=Gtf7Bx1tVmR5GtJexNnE.4 The specific PDE they tested against in these studies was PDE1, but this does not mean that Lodhra bark is not active against other PDE isoforms. PDE1 inhibition is a mechanism shared by selegiline (Deprenyl), but its main documented role is enhanced pulmonary function, improved energy levels, and increased vasodilation in response to nitric oxide (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2650605/). Hormonal Effects Aside from increasing cAMP which increases steroidogenesis, Lodhra also increases LH/FSH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15261983) and was effective in treating a murine model analogous to secondary infertility. In males, LH is known to stimulate testosterone production while FSH nourishes developing sperm. Complementary Effects with Arachidonic Acid (ArA) ArA has three primary metabolites: prostaglandins (associated with muscle accretion and vasodilation), thromboxanes (associated with blood clotting; inhibited by carnitines or aspirin), and leukotrienes (associated with constriction of smooth muscle, such as bronchoconstriction). The latter two effects are typically considered unfavorable. Lodhra Bark is a lipoxygenase inhibitor, preventing the conversion of ArA to leukotrienes. This leaves more ArA available to be converted to prostaglandins or thromboxanes, the latter of which can be inhibited by methods stated above. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15938197

 

[kissdadookie]

Artichoke extract is something of a joke for that purpose compared to Lodhra in ABE, which is incidentally why they are in the same formula

Specifically for PDE4 inhibition? The write up for Lodhra wasn't very clear as to which of the PDEs it was good at inhibiting apart from PDE1 which they tested for.

 

[luckylefty811]

kiss you know i got 4 bottles of norco !! that should help speed up the process

 

[kissdadookie]

kiss you know i got 4 bottles of norco !! that should help speed up the process

I think some of you are confused. LoL. Yesterday the thread took a slight detour into how forskolin + a PDE4 inhibitor could be used as a cognitive booster. Lulz.

 

[Grayson]

By how much does the dose decrease if stacking with caffeine?

 

[mr.cooper69]

By how much does the dose decrease if stacking with caffeine?

No one knows for sure, but I'd surmise quite a bit

 

[ion26]

Would either glycergrow or a 10 calorie (3 carb) energy drink mess up yohimbe's effects?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Would either glycergrow or a 10 calorie (3 carb) energy drink mess up yohimbe's effects?

No and no. Again, especially if you're training after