Unanswered Compound Solutions Gets Sued

C

crowbar46

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Thought everyone might like to see this:
ThermoLife International Sues Compound Solutions, Alleging VASO6 Is Nothing But Green Tea Extract, VASO6 Is Not Patented, And The Science Is Fake
Published: Mar 05, 2019
PHOENIX, March 5, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- On March 4, 2019, ThermoLife International, LLCfiled suit in Arizona Federal District Court against Compounds Solutions, Inc., the manufacture of VASO6. ThermoLife is a leading technology supplier in the sports nutrition and supplement industry. ThermoLife holds 17 patents with more than 450 claims related to novel uses of nitrates and amino acid nitrate compounds, compositions, and uses in Dietary Supplements and food products, including top-selling Creatine Nitrate.
As alleged in ThermoLife's Complaint, Compound Solutions charges $250 per kilo for VASO6, claiming—among other things—that: VASO6 is a "patented ingredient"; VASO6 is "clinically proven to increase vasodilation by 50%"; that VASO6 is "more powerful and potent than standard green tea extracts"; and that "300mg of VASO6 is clinically proven to be more effective at increasing vasodilation than 7 grams of arginine." However as ThermoLife's complaint alleges all of these claims are lies.
ThermoLife obtained a sample of VASO6 and had it tested by two separate independent laboratories. These tests established that VASO6 is nothing more than every day common green tea extract that should sell for around $30 per kilo. The laboratory tests demonstrated that nothing in VASO6 is a "patented ingredient" as claimed by Compound Solutions. Furthermore, as alleged in the Complaint, after a critical review of the literature that Compound Solutions uses as a smoke-and-mirrors tactic to make outlandish claims that deceive Dietary Supplement companies and consumers, it is obvious (to anyone who actually bothered to read and analyze the studies) that VASO6 is not clinically proven to increase vasodilation by 50%, and that 300mg of VASO6 is not ten times more effective at increasing vasodilation than 7 grams of arginine. According to ThermoLife's Complaint, Compound Solutions made up these lies to fool people, who seek the vasodilation benefits of Dietary Ingredients like those provided by ThermoLife's patented nitrate ingredients.
As alleged in the Complaint, additional laboratory analysis of the green tea extract that Compound Solutions sells as VASO6 revealed the material is composed of 63% regular monomers, i.e., regular EGCG, ECG, and other monomers found in common green tea extract (not [as Compound Solutions claims] only dimers, trimers, tetramers, and pentamers, and not "only the most bioactive oligomeric compounds, making it more powerful and potent than standard green tea extracts"). Monomers like EGCG, ECG, and other monomers that make up 63% of VASO6 are clinically proven to either have no effect on vasodilation or, in fact, cause vasoconstriction (the opposite of vasodilation).
As alleged in detail in ThermoLife's Complaint, Compounds Solution's has knowingly and willfully falsely advertised VASO6. As ThermoLife explains, Compound Solutions claims that VASO6 practices U.S. Patent No 6,706,756B1. Claim 1 of that patent protects "A method of inducing endothelium-dependent relaxation in blood vessels comprising the step of introducing isolated procyanidins having a preponderance of (-)-epicatechins." And Claim 5 of the '756 Patent protects the administration of "isolated epicatechin-(4-8)-epicatechin-(4-8)-epicatechin-gallate (C1-gallate)) (hereinafter, "C-1 gallate")" to cause the same effect. Accordingly, either "procyanidin C1-gallate" or isolated "procyanidins having a preponderance of (-) epicatechins" is necessary to practice the patented claims. However, contrary to Compounds Solutions claims, ThermoLife's research and independent laboratory testing demonstrated that VASO does not include either of these isolated compounds. As alleged, VASO6 is just plain green tea extract.
ThermoLife's Complaint seeks an injunction, barring further false advertising by Compound Solutions and actual damages. As a result of Compound Solutions willfully false advertising, ThermoLife also seeks an order from the court disgorging its profits on VASO6 and an award of treble damages.
ThermoLife is represented in the matter by Gregory B. Collins of Kercsmar & Feltus PLLC.
About ThermoLife International
Founded in 1998, ThermoLife is a world leader in patented ingredients and technology for use in dietary supplements, specializing in sports nutrition. ThermoLife controls a global patent portfolio of 27 patents spanning more than 15 countries including more than 450 valid and issued claims on the use of nitrates in dietary supplements. ThermoLife collaborates with leading manufacturers in the sports nutrition and dietary supplement industry to provide innovative ingredients to help offer superior patent-protected products to end users.
For more information, see www.ThermoLife.com, www.NO3-T.com and www.MaxNox.info
Cision
View original content:http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/thermolife-international-sues-compound-solutions-alleging-vaso6-is-nothing-but-green-tea-extract-vaso6-is-not-patented-and-the-science-is-fake-300806484.html
SOURCE ThermoLife International, LLC
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I've been confused by this myself. I have seen preworkouts with green tea extract in before vaso 6 was a thing. Now I see products listing vaso 6 and others that will say "vaso 6 (as green tea extract)"
 
The Solution

The Solution

Legend
Awards
5
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer

there was a thread made in march on the same subject
 
BCseacow83

BCseacow83

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Assuming true WhyTF would that entitle TL to money? Ron K is such a focker. How about you get off your lazy litigious ass and actually produce products instead of being such a legal scavenger for a living.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
6
  • Best Answer
  • The BigT Award
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
A

alvin1

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
was he a drug dealer before starting thermolife?
 
S

stimtron

Member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • Best Answer
If true this could undermine some to all of the research Compound Solutions has done including theacrine, dynamine, etc.
 
J

Jeremyk1

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
was he a drug dealer before starting thermolife?
Yeah pretty much. I read about it once. He said he would travel around Europe, get some pharma gear, and ship it back to the US.
 
soxbsbll05

soxbsbll05

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
Yeah not sure how anyone can NOT get anything out vaso6. It’s very noticeable.
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Yeah not sure how anyone can NOT get anything out vaso6. It’s very noticeable.
I don't think it's a case of vaso6 being bunk, I think it's more about it being green tea extract yet someone has patented it, called it vaso 6 and is charging 5 times as much for companies to use it. So if vaso6 works for you then just get and green tea extract and it will do the same job.
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Yeah not sure how anyone can NOT get anything out vaso6. It’s very noticeable.
I don't think it's a case of vaso6 being bunk, I think it's more about it being green tea extract yet someone has patented it, called it vaso 6 and is charging 5 times as much for companies to use it. So if vaso6 works for you then just get and green tea extract and it will do the same job.
 
soxbsbll05

soxbsbll05

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
To be fair, many many many people on here said the exact same thing about CEE
Definitely agree. There is always the possible chance it could be placebo. My reasoning behind why I believe it is a great pump product is because I don't dose vaso6 every workout, hell probably only 1-2 times a week, and when I do I can definitely tell the difference in comparison to normal citrulline/glycerol. It is very comparable to nitrates in my personal experience. I know everyone may not react the same way though.
 
soxbsbll05

soxbsbll05

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
I don't think it's a case of vaso6 being bunk, I think it's more about it being green tea extract yet someone has patented it, called it vaso 6 and is charging 5 times as much for companies to use it. So if vaso6 works for you then just get and green tea extract and it will do the same job.
If its proven to be just plain ole green tea extract then I will eat my words but I highly doubt it is. Vaso6 is made from green tea extract (or grape seeds) and uses the most active fractions of it. So based on that, how much exact green tea extract would you need to take to equate to 300-600mg of vaso6? Probably alot. I've also used many epicatechin products, and while they do provide a decent pump, its still not on the same level as straight vaso 6, in my personal opinion.
 
VaughnTrue

VaughnTrue

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Definitely agree. There is always the possible chance it could be placebo. My reasoning behind why I believe it is a great pump product is because I don't dose vaso6 every workout, hell probably only 1-2 times a week, and when I do I can definitely tell the difference in comparison to normal citrulline/glycerol. It is very comparable to nitrates in my personal experience. I know everyone may not react the same way though.
I always tell everyone, if you feel it's working for you...then use it. But everyone, myself included, suffers from placebo effects no matter how hard we believe to be scrutinizing an ingredient/product.

I have no clue if Vaso6 is "legit" or not, but always like reminding people that we've all fallen for hype in one way or another.
 
soxbsbll05

soxbsbll05

Active member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
I always tell everyone, if you feel it's working for you...then use it. But everyone, myself included, suffers from placebo effects no matter how hard we believe to be scrutinizing an ingredient/product.

I have no clue if Vaso6 is "legit" or not, but always like reminding people that we've all fallen for hype in one way or another.
Most definitely agree with this. Like I said, everyone reacts differently to products and if vaso6 is proven to be just plain ole green tea extract, I will eat my words. Or I just respond greatly to plain green tea extract 😂
 
TommyTuffGuy

TommyTuffGuy

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
There's no way, I took VASO6 and had the best pump ever on that chit. Vascularity out the ying too.
 
DWeaver

DWeaver

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I don't think it's a case of vaso6 being bunk, I think it's more about it being green tea extract yet someone has patented it, called it vaso 6 and is charging 5 times as much for companies to use it. So if vaso6 works for you then just get and green tea extract and it will do the same job.
I’m not sure how that’s sue worthy. I mean.... wouldn’t it be similar to Carnosyn being just BA?
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I’m not sure how that’s sue worthy. I mean.... wouldn’t it be similar to Carnosyn being just BA?
I guess it's maybe a purity thing. Thing is green tea extract can be broken down into about 5 different extracts.
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Got this off a site



What is VASO6?

VASO6 is an advanced oligomer, in the form of a botanical extract of green tea, specifically characterised by fractions and peaks, which significantly increase the production of Nitric Oxide within the body. This causes vasodilation of the blood vessels which allows you to achieve Arnie’s favourite thing in the world… ‘The Pump’.

Unlike other green tea extracts, VASO6 is a patented proprietary green tea oligomer containing levels of specific vasodilating catechins that have been clinically studied and proven to increase vasodilation by 50% (1). Clinical trials have shown that consuming 300mg of VASO6 can result in up to 50% vasodilation (1), while 7g of Arginine, a well know vasodilating ingredient, only results in 5% vasodilation (2).

Green Tea contains fractions A to G, which were isolated (into phenolic acids, catechins and proanthocyanins), and then tested for their vasodilation properties by separating them further and testing for any peaks in activity. The compounds exhibiting the most vasodilating activity were proanthocyanin trimers, tetramers, pentamers, and polymers and their gallates, as well as a dimer gallate. It is these more influential fractions that have been isolated and harnessed by VASO6, allowing you to create more Nitric Oxide. Similar studies have also shown that short-term ingestion of these extracts improve vasodilation in humans (3).

VASO6 being a gallate-enhanced oligomer really does make it a superior ingredient for use pre-workout. The gallates within it have been clinically shown to promote the greatest vasodilation activity and has even been granted a patent for this result.
 
Luomo88

Luomo88

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
I don't think it's a case of vaso6 being bunk, I think it's more about it being green tea extract yet someone has patented it, called it vaso 6 and is charging 5 times as much for companies to use it. So if vaso6 works for you then just get and green tea extract and it will do the same job.
THIS!!
I purchased a bottle of vaso6 and really loved it. After looking at the ingredient (green tea extract) I decided to get a bottle of plain old GTE and see if there was any difference. Conclusion: they’re the same thing, same great pump but a huge price difference
 
DWeaver

DWeaver

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
THIS!!
I purchased a bottle of vaso6 and really loved it. After looking at the ingredient (green tea extract) I decided to get a bottle of plain old GTE and see if there was any difference. Conclusion: they’re the same thing, same great pump but a huge price difference
So if GTE is as good as V6, why wasn’t GTE a stable in pre workouts before V6 came around?
 
C

crowbar46

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Just keep in mind these are allegations so far, not proven. However, if two (2) samples were analyzed and found to be nothing more than plain green tea extract we have a problem.

I'll say that for me, Vaso6 is rather hit and miss. Sometimes it does seem to produce a very nice pump, other times, not so much (always used under the same conditions). To further complicate things, MANY factors determine the pump you get from training: carb intake, style of training, degree of recovery, just to name a few.

Crowbar
 
DEVANS89

DEVANS89

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Who actually analysed the two samples?

It’s just fishy that a company that has a patent on nitrates suddenly comes out with all this especially after nitrates aren’t as popular in pre’s and vaso6 was everywhere


Like others have said if it works for you then take it

Who cares what Kramer thinks because anything he’s got to say it’s going to be bias
 
The Solution

The Solution

Legend
Awards
5
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
Who actually analysed the two samples?

It’s just fishy that a company that has a patent on nitrates suddenly comes out with all this especially after nitrates aren’t as popular in pre’s and vaso6 was everywhere


Like others have said if it works for you then take it

Who cares what Kramer thinks because anything he’s got to say it’s going to be bias
Nitrates are not popular in Pre's?
C4
C4 Ultimate
C4 Ultimate Power
Cellucor CN3
Cellucor N03
BFF Fullblitz
BFF VasoBlitz
PES High Volume
MTS Ruckus
APS Mesomorph
VMI Nitratest
VMI Pump XR
Purus Labs Condense
Purus Labs Noxygen
Purus Labs Muscle Marinade
Scivation Quake 10.0
Nutrex Outlift Concentrate
Prosupps Mr. Hyde

I would beg to differ that nitrates are not popular in pre's. These are just the ones off the top of my head that I can think of with plenty more I am sure I could dig up.
 
J

jamesm11

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Who actually analysed the two samples?

It’s just fishy that a company that has a patent on nitrates suddenly comes out with all this especially after nitrates aren’t as popular in pre’s and vaso6 was everywhere


Like others have said if it works for you then take it

Who cares what Kramer thinks because anything he’s got to say it’s going to be bias
The complaint states two independent labs. Either way, litigation will likely he resolved with an agreed upon independent expert/lab. If Compound refuses to submit to an independent expert than they're hiding something.
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Nitrates are not popular in Pre's?
C4
C4 Ultimate
C4 Ultimate Power
Cellucor CN3
Cellucor N03
BFF Fullblitz
BFF VasoBlitz
PES High Volume
MTS Ruckus
APS Mesomorph
VMI Nitratest
VMI Pump XR
Purus Labs Condense
Purus Labs Noxygen
Purus Labs Muscle Marinade
Scivation Quake 10.0
Nutrex Outlift Concentrate
Prosupps Mr. Hyde

I would beg to differ that nitrates are not popular in pre's. These are just the ones off the top of my head that I can think of with plenty more I am sure I could dig up.
I remember trying outbreak nutrition serum due to the vaso6 ingredient that was bigged up by price plow.
 
DEVANS89

DEVANS89

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
@The Solution

Calm down buckaroo, I was saying vaso6 was everywhere and in everything


Jeeeeez I bet your phone screen is still hot after typing all those out!


You don’t really hear much about nitrates in pre’s like you did vaso6
 
The Solution

The Solution

Legend
Awards
5
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
@The Solution

Calm down buckaroo, I was saying vaso6 was everywhere and in everything


Jeeeeez I bet your phone screen is still hot after typing all those out!


You don’t really hear much about nitrates in pre’s like you did vaso6
Besides the fact that Nitrates have far more research and science behind them then VASO6 does . But you just may be biased to VASO6 that’s fine. Have an open mind and realize if Nitrates were not popular companies would not invest or put them on their labels.

For expletive way back when cooper posted here there is over a dozen studies done on Nitrates you can’t say that for Vaso 6


Welcome to the industry in a monkey see monkey do environment like everyone is hoping on s7 since VASO6 is in a lawsuit.

You don’t need to have the latest ingredients to make a good pre workout.
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Besides the fact that Nitrates have far more research and science behind them then VASO6 does . But you just may be biased to VASO6 that’s fine. Have an open mind and realize if Nitrates were not popular companies would not invest or put them on their labels.

For expletive way back when cooper posted here there is over a dozen studies done on Nitrates you can’t say that for Vaso 6


Welcome to the industry in a monkey see monkey do environment like everyone is hoping on s7 since VASO6 is in a lawsuit.

You don’t need to have the latest ingredients to make a good pre workout.
You don't need to take any supplements at all to have a good preworkout.
 
nostrum420

nostrum420

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I think this may come down to the testing methodology.

I'll elaborate more after talking to a couple friends.
 
The Solution

The Solution

Legend
Awards
5
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
You don't need to take any supplements at all to have a good preworkout.
Of course.
But the matter of the fact is the general gym goer thinks they need a powder or pill to solve an underlying issue (diet, sleep, stress) in order to have a good workout. And this is where you see the common trend of people taking more then what is necessary or trying to supplement a lacking area for optimizing their progress.
 
thebigt

thebigt

Legend
Awards
6
  • Best Answer
  • The BigT Award
  • Established
  • Legend!
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
Of course.
But the matter of the fact is the general gym goer thinks they need a powder or pill to solve an underlying issue (diet, sleep, stress) in order to have a good workout. And this is where you see the common trend of people taking more then what is necessary or trying to supplement a lacking area for optimizing their progress.
I grew up in the 70's, people used drugs for recreation back then...today people are looking for a edge in a very competitive world.
 
Wobmarvel

Wobmarvel

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Of course.
But the matter of the fact is the general gym goer thinks they need a powder or pill to solve an underlying issue (diet, sleep, stress) in order to have a good workout. And this is where you see the common trend of people taking more then what is necessary or trying to supplement a lacking area for optimizing their progress.
Lol yes, and I am one of those people. I was just sayin'.
 
StatePlan1425

StatePlan1425

Member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Thanks for this very timely. I was doing some reading on Arginine’s stimulation of mTOR and the conclusion was NO may be the real driver.

I miss Coop... :-(
 
The Solution

The Solution

Legend
Awards
5
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
Lol yes, and I am one of those people. I was just sayin'.
At least you admit to a fault diet, adequate sleep, or underlying factors that need adressed.
Most people just add more pills or powders and hope to "Supplement" Something that is broken.
That is why they are called "Suppelments" if your diet, training, nutrition, and everything else that should be taken care of first is not in check it won't give you the optimal progress you are looking for.
 
R

Resolve10

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Nice to see how long this stayed on topic.
 
mbonheur

mbonheur

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
THIS!!
I purchased a bottle of vaso6 and really loved it. After looking at the ingredient (green tea extract) I decided to get a bottle of plain old GTE and see if there was any difference. Conclusion: they’re the same thing, same great pump but a huge price difference
What type of green tea extract? I don't have a clear opinion on this. Nice to have, but personally I did not see a lot more effects than from a grape seed extract or pine bark extract for instance
 
The Solution

The Solution

Legend
Awards
5
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • Best Answer
Nice to see how long this stayed on topic.

This subject was already covered months ago back in March when this came up in a separate thread. A lot of reps from multiple companies chimed in with their thoughts.

 
Last edited:

Similar threads


Top