ma70
Well-known member
I've been an Xtend customer for years! The orange flavor is something I can't pass up.
Companies to look out for in 2017??
- Thread starter TrainerTone
- Start date
I've been an Xtend customer for years! The orange flavor is something I can't pass up.
smith_69
Well-known member
Right but put that in a prop blend forget. Especially if I like the company. If I had an option to see how much was there, I'd be more inclined to try it.
Ps I agree about those who read into the reports about props etc.
However there are people who that simply want the information.
It's not an argument towards you or any company it's a simple valid request.
cheftepesh1
Well-known member
For those that like the lighter stim products and more natural sweeteners there's this company.
Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
muscleupcrohn
Legend
They have pure Bacoside A in their focus formula?
cheftepesh1
Well-known member
From my understanding they only use natural, high quality ingredients. They have a free samples offer on focus and someone sent me a discount code if you want to use.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Cit-Mal needs to be at least 8g. BA at 1g? (zero acute effects aside, other than paresthesia). Schisandra whole root (but may be ok?). Choline BT at 100mg does nothing.
I wouldn't dose Vitamin C above 250mg, anywhere near the workout. You'll 99% be consuming actual protein sometime PoWO, so no need for BCAA.
I wouldn't dose Vitamin C above 250mg, anywhere near the workout. You'll 99% be consuming actual protein sometime PoWO, so no need for BCAA.
Danes
Well-known member
Schisandra without proper standardisation is meh..
Jiigzz
Legend
Tell you what, let businesses do what they want to do and you let your sending dictate what you want to spend money on.
You're a broken record on this subject and it grows tiresome. Don't like prop blends? Support those who don't use them and stop whining about those that choose to
Ricky10
Well-known member
Let's not forget that some of the best and unanimous favorites of the past were proprietary blends that also had undisclosed ingredients. Original Stimulant-X, Slim-X, Craze, and Detonate all produced some remarkable results and unmatched feelings of well-being. Is this wrong...sure, but I sure am glad they did it!
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Well I'm not sure about slim-x but the rest were spiked and had nothing to do a prop blend. As even if it was full disclosed it still had ingredients that weren't listed soooo your point is not relevant.
There are other products that I would have agreed with but not those
Ricky10
Well-known member
Proprietary blends and undisclosed ingredients have both been discussed. These products are the standout examples of both and were immensely popular. Not sure how you see that as irrelevant....
Nac
Well-known member
Im a cynic when it comes to human nature.
As long as there is a "demand" for spiked products combined with paltry/lacking investigative capacities and penalties...companies that are prepared to risk it for the $$ will.
All the talk of "letz do sumthing bout this guys!" is chuckle-worthy. Especially when I see companies jumping on the bandwagon or riling the troops.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
They aren't examples of good prop blends (which do exist, I'm not a fan of them but there are good one) they are examples of adulter products and are an exception not a rule
Ricky10
Well-known member
Depends on how you look at it. A majority of people would agree that Craze was the best PWO of all time. After learning the truth, some people were turned off and pissed, others stocked up knowing it would be gone forever. Yes...this is the exception, but an example of a product many would say was a "good proprietary blend" just based on the efficacy.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I think what he was saying was that since they were "spiked," it's irrelevant if they were prop blends or disclosed, as the ingredient that was responsible for the effects wouldn't be listed on the label either way.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
Exactly!!!! Hell I stocked up on craze. Idc. It was a great stim. But it's not relevant here. There are good prop blends but that's not a good example as it was spiked
muscleupcrohn
Legend
It's completely unethical, and dangerous/harmful to spike products. Period. Yeah, some people liked it enough to want more, but surely you think that people have a right to know what strong stimulants they're taking, no? As I said, it's not a good prop blend, and it wouldn't have been a good disclosed label; it would have been a spiked product that only "worked" because it was spiked. Some people take steroids, and would buy an OTC supplement spiked with Dbol, but its completely unethical and dangerous to sneak it unlabeled into a supplement, regardless of how many people would still like it after they found out.
Ricky10
Well-known member
When it come down to ethical issues...you are exactly right that it can be dangerous to be ingesting something without being aware...as it was not disclosed on the label.
ryane87
Well-known member
You are a moron if you are gung-ho about having spiked products across the board. If you want to "live on the edge" in the supplement world, go play a little darker and go take down grams of test and other anabolics a week. People like you are what encourages dishonesty in the supplement industry. Greed, customer ignorance, and customer stupidity. The eventual downfall. Just need a few more dummies.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Chill out dude, to each their own I suppose...
Yeah, I loved Craze and Detonate. Just like everyone else. Get over it!
muscleupcrohn
Legend
But it's not to each his own, as by encouraging spiked products, you are increasing the likelihood that someone else will unknowingly take a spiked product with potentially dangerous products.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
I use the Euphorbia Kansui (a hefty dose) in the Supernova to control cortisol.
Invalid Link Removed
ryane87
Well-known member
It's not "to each their own". I want to know what I am putting in my body because I am living for more than myself. As a husband and father, the last thing I need is some dickbag fck putting bad shyt into a product and it lays me up for awhile or worse. You can actually solve your need for craze by smoking meth.
BTW, being honest doesn't make me angry or I need to chill. It's just called being honest.
Ricky10
Well-known member
While I agree that ethically, all ingredients should be disclosed to the consumer. There are fully disclosed formulas out there that are much more likely to cause cardiac problems etc with extreme dosages of caffeine and Yohimbe than Craze and Detonate ever were. Craze and Detonate were popular because people were so thrilled to finally not have that jittery, heart racing feeling. It was nice to actually feel good on these products and not like your heart was about to beat out of you chest. I don't recall anyone reporting anything detrimental to their health with these products. They were amphetamine analogs that are actually quite well tolerated, similar to adderall/dexadrine that hit dopamine receptors; hence the relaxed, happy, focused affect.
rtmilburn
Well-known member
They were better than dexedrine closer to desoxyn and chemical closer too! That's why people freaked more with it than other spiked stuff as they heard meth and freaked out. In actuality real methamphetamine is very well tolerated causes very little side effects and isn't that addictive(comparatively especially vs opiates and benzos). Street "Meth" isn't methamphetamine
Ricky10
Well-known member
Yeah; it actually was better. I was just speaking in general terms. Well, sorry that I got this thread even more off track than it already was. Haha! Did not realize I was opening such a huge can of worms..
Peace out!
muscleupcrohn
Legend
But you know what you're getting when you use a non-spiked product. You have no idea when you're using something spiked. If you want amphetamine-like feelings, go take them. Don't encourage people to spike products with them so someone unknowingly takes them. If you actually support companies spiking products, I don't know why I'm even having this discussion. Who is to say that a product won't be spiked with something more dangerous, something that will make someone fail a drug test, or something hormonal?
ryane87
Well-known member
Soooo....caring about my health = needing prozac....ok....have a good night Dr. Ricky. Any interaction I have with you hurts my head.
ryane87
Well-known member
No problem. Anything for you. Sorry if 2 cuss words is every other word. I hope I didn't invade your "safe space"....LOL Anyway, back to new companies!
Ricky10
Well-known member
Haha! This is a discussion forum, I think it is ridiculous how many people get all bent out of shape on here. He is not the only offender. People constantly attack one another on here for no reason. There are tactful ways to state your opinions/comments...then there is the belligerent type. I think this forum could stand to be a bit more respectful of one another in general. I have zero tolerance for the belligerent types.Hugs guys?
ryane87
Well-known member
Look, calling you a moron for wanting more spiked products isn't an attack. It's the truth. Don't you need to go to the new product release thread and whine about how it's protein bars? Quit being a damned baby and make like frozen and "let it go". We all have dumb opinions sometimes. When people call you on it, they aren't being mean or "attacking" you. I just found your opinion in that mind numbingly dumb. Goodnight! *hugs*
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Triggered.
VeinNutrition
Board Sponsor
Hey guys, if I may, thought I'd throw out our current stance on this. Since we're a new company and all give you guys some insight into how we operate.
I think there's a larger and larger population of people who are more knowledgeable and more keen on supplements these days. There's more readily available information, discussion and resources for people to find out more about what ingredients are effective and what aren't. I do not think there are any "secret ingredients" or "secret blends" at this point in time that are truly miles better than the rest. However, I can see the marketing power behind a proprietary blend and that you can theoretically charge more for a proprietary blend because no one else knows the exact ratios.
Our company is full-disclosure because we strive to be a very realistic and receptive company. It's difficult for me a stand behind a product I don't believe it, and it's also difficult for me to ignore overwhelming customer feedback - which right now everyone wants to see full disclosure labels. I think in the supplement industry right now, you can go two directions for branded consumer companies like ours. One direction is to make cheaper product in which you can have larger markup and use that to fuel marketing. Marketing is very very important in the dietary supplement industry. The Anabolic Minds community is a little different than the general population because they are more knowledgeable and investigative, but the general public is very susceptible to marketing. And a proprietary blend can help hide the true cost to manufacture the product. Now that's not to say that every company that uses a prop blend is making low quality product. The other direction you can go is to make higher dosed and quality product but the downside to this is that your profit margins are going to be lower. Who likes to pay $50+ on a bottle of PWO? It's a tougher market because you've got lower profit margins = lower marketing budget = smaller brand awareness. Going this direction, generally companies will have a full-disclosure product because it highlights "yes we're using high dosed, high quality ingredients".
It's commonly held knowledge right now that the supplement industry is beyond saturated. There are new supplement companies being created every single day. A scary statistics for us is that 90% of businesses fail. We stand behind our product 100%, but you could have the best product in the industry and with no marketing your company will die. Marketing will make or break a supplement company. When it comes down to it, the sole reason you run a business is to make money, and you must do what you must for your company to make money. So I ask for those to be more open minded to some of the other supplement companies responding here because oftentimes we do have to make difficult or non-ideal decisions.
I think there's a larger and larger population of people who are more knowledgeable and more keen on supplements these days. There's more readily available information, discussion and resources for people to find out more about what ingredients are effective and what aren't. I do not think there are any "secret ingredients" or "secret blends" at this point in time that are truly miles better than the rest. However, I can see the marketing power behind a proprietary blend and that you can theoretically charge more for a proprietary blend because no one else knows the exact ratios.
Our company is full-disclosure because we strive to be a very realistic and receptive company. It's difficult for me a stand behind a product I don't believe it, and it's also difficult for me to ignore overwhelming customer feedback - which right now everyone wants to see full disclosure labels. I think in the supplement industry right now, you can go two directions for branded consumer companies like ours. One direction is to make cheaper product in which you can have larger markup and use that to fuel marketing. Marketing is very very important in the dietary supplement industry. The Anabolic Minds community is a little different than the general population because they are more knowledgeable and investigative, but the general public is very susceptible to marketing. And a proprietary blend can help hide the true cost to manufacture the product. Now that's not to say that every company that uses a prop blend is making low quality product. The other direction you can go is to make higher dosed and quality product but the downside to this is that your profit margins are going to be lower. Who likes to pay $50+ on a bottle of PWO? It's a tougher market because you've got lower profit margins = lower marketing budget = smaller brand awareness. Going this direction, generally companies will have a full-disclosure product because it highlights "yes we're using high dosed, high quality ingredients".
It's commonly held knowledge right now that the supplement industry is beyond saturated. There are new supplement companies being created every single day. A scary statistics for us is that 90% of businesses fail. We stand behind our product 100%, but you could have the best product in the industry and with no marketing your company will die. Marketing will make or break a supplement company. When it comes down to it, the sole reason you run a business is to make money, and you must do what you must for your company to make money. So I ask for those to be more open minded to some of the other supplement companies responding here because oftentimes we do have to make difficult or non-ideal decisions.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I'll tell you what, when these yahoos (and the people that support them) quit trying to BS the consumer with indefensible reasons why they are hiding something, I'll stop too. How's that sound? There was whining in your post, but it wasn't in the quoted portion. If exposing BS is a banning offense, I guess you'll get your way some day. Until then, I'm going to "broken record" the shjt out of this topic, every time a shill opens their mouth. There's a block feature if you don't like reading it.
Lighten up Francis
pulsefit
Board Sponsor
Marketing is #1. I don't think C4 is a revolutionary pre workout but it is marketed well and I'm pretty sure it dominates the preworkout market. I do like C4 ultimate which is a great pump product.
Danes
Well-known member
Good read for sure.
Personaly, I dont trust Prop blend products
Lets say I make Testosterone Booster which is 2g prop blend of:
-PrimaVie
-KSM66
-LJ100
-Tribulus
People see 3 patent pended ingredients such as Primavie,KSM 66 and LJ100 so people automatically believe this product will be good. But lets say in 2g prop blend I just use 100mg primavie,100mg ksm66, 50mg LJ100 and rest cheap tribulus powder. Then I will introduce it with introduction price (24.99$).
Would this be good product? Definitely not!
But it may sell and I could earn money on it.
Prop blend is effective way to hide the dose of each ingredients and it would be VERY naive to believe supplement companies are not doing stuff like this !
Its not my business what people spend their money on but people should be aware of those ****ty sale/marketing tactics many companies are serving
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Yeah, and I've seen something similar with nootropics that have 500mg of a "choline blend" of choline bitartrate, CDP-Choline, and Alpha-GPC. You could definitely split that up between the three and get a good dose of choline, but you could also have 480mg of choline bitartrate, and 10mg each of CDP and GPC, but the average customer, even a somewhat educated one who knows "what ingredients to look for" will see CDP-Choline and Alpha-GPC, and think it's going to be great. Of course, there are some prop-blend supplements that have good doses and are effective, but often times it is used to conceal low doses. On the other hand, I've seen many fully disclosed supplements with terrible doses, so you will have some under-dosed supplements either way. I know there's a nootropic supplement in PricePlow's top 10 that lists 30mg of 90% Alpha-GPC, another has 300mg of choline bitartrate, I see 300-500mg of NALT all the time, etc. You'll see good and bad prop and disclosed blends all the time.
It seems many would throw the baby out with the bathwater. The assumption of guilt is interesting.
ma70
Well-known member
Guys, the argument is never gonna end. No point in trying to convince others as they already have their viewpoint/opinion and will likely not change. If I see a prop blend, I immediately avoid it. I don't care about the companies reputation or anything. Supplements are already questionable/crapshoot, so I could do with one less variable. The end! Just my opinion.
Logical viewpoint.
I guess I tend to look at things form a company owner standpoint as well as a consumer and some are just locked into the consumer side.
Danes
Well-known member
I need to admit, not sure what you mean with "many would throw the baby out with the bathwater."
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Fighten up, Lancis
Danes
Well-known member
Any of you homo's touch my stuff...
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed