Clomid during cycle

I've decided that I'd rather be called a liar than help obnoxious d-bags avoid shutdown on cycle, especially if it means there's a possibility they never breed.

I'm done with this thread and done encouraging SERMs on cycle.

I'm also done contributing to public threads.

People I consider "friends" on here may PM me for advice/discussion and I will answer individually, but this is my last public post. I don't think the majority of the BBing community deserves the knowledge I bring to the table. I'm selective with my clients, and I'm going to apply that same selectivity on here.

Bye.
 
AnabolicGuru said:
I think you just noticed some placebo effects which led you to believe that the clomid was working good, and instead of posting “my balls feel bigger on cycle, clomid definitely works” you figured that claiming to have bloodwork would make people not troll you. That’s my outlook.
Click to expand...

This it true, doesn’t matter how “big your balls” or big your “load” is, it doesn’t indicate where your levels are at.

I thought my balls was “big and heavy” while shooting big “loads”, but I still couldn’t get my wife pregnant, it tuned out that my sperm was “too low to measure”... it’s really no way to know until you get tested.
 
Spurfy said:
I've decided that I'd rather be called a liar than help obnoxious d-bags avoid shutdown on cycle, especially if it means there's a possibility they never breed.

I'm done with this thread and done encouraging SERMs on cycle.

I'm also done contributing to public threads.

People I consider "friends" on here may PM me for advice/discussion and I will answer individually, but this is my last public post. I don't think the majority of the BBing community deserves the knowledge I bring to the table. I'm selective with my clients, and I'm going to apply that same selectivity on here.

Bye.
Click to expand...

Naw, don’t leave, it’s silly to ask for blood test since it can’t be trusted anyway, it’s no way to know if it’s fake or not, after all we’re on a public forum on the internet...
 
Spurfy said:
I withdraw my previous claim on SERMs on cycle.

I was lying.

I never got bloodwork.

I will not be posting bloodwork.

I am a phony.

A big, fat phony.

Here's a picture of me during an encounter I had once when I was being a phony. I'm on the left.

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

I wasn’t even quoting you, quit getting so easily offended.
 
Kratom267 said:
Yeah let me know what you think of the torem from MA if you run it...Ill do the same.
I used torem once before years ago from...a metal-fire breathing/flying lizard if that makes any sense...and it was damn good. Had clomid like effects without the emotional sides, from what i remember. MA is so well respected, surely its going to be a great product but we shall see!
Click to expand...
Yes...sure will! So far, I will say it has kicked off a little differently from my prior sources. Yes, that makes sense...and I found it.
Kratom267 said:
So damn good to hear the good reports on MA's Torem! Anyone able to make any sense of the lab reports that comes with their products? Was looking at mine for the Torem...have no f'n clue! Im used to lab reports for CBD products, where it simply says "97% CBD, .2%THC" etc
Click to expand...
I just toss them out without even looking at them....yet I am glad they are included simply for greater peace of mind. :D
 
Spurfy said:
I don't know about you, but I'm not in the habit of keeping file folders with my medical records, lab results, etc.
Click to expand...

honestly, I have all the bloodwork I've had done in the past 6 years or so saved in my e-mail, since most labs just e-mailed the results.

seems kind weird to me to get bloodwork and NOT hold on it, if for no other reason then to keep a long term log of various health markers.

Spurfy said:
If you don't want to run a SERM on-cycle, then don't. It's really simple. No one is forcing anyone to do anything, this is all just informational
Click to expand...

I find it odd how so many of the people espousing this theory are so offended by their opinions being challenged, when we are simply looking for evidence and not conjecture.
 
CatSnake said:
honestly, I have all the bloodwork I've had done in the past 6 years or so saved in my e-mail, since most labs just e-mailed the results.

seems kind weird to me to get bloodwork and NOT hold on it, if for no other reason then to keep a long term log of various health markers.



I find it odd how so many of the people espousing this theory are so offended by their opinions being challenged, when we are simply looking for evidence and not conjecture.
Click to expand...

Yup, most of my bloodwork I have paper copies of, as well as pictures.
 
This has to be one if not the best thread I’ve read in years. About to start a megatren cycle and considering torem on cycle for the 4/5 weeks.
 
CatSnake said:
honestly, I have all the bloodwork I've had done in the past 6 years or so saved in my e-mail, since most labs just e-mailed the results.

seems kind weird to me to get bloodwork and NOT hold on it, if for no other reason then to keep a long term log of various health markers.



I find it odd how so many of the people espousing this theory are so offended by their opinions being challenged, when we are simply looking for evidence and not conjecture.
Click to expand...

Maybe it’s the increase in estrogen from running a SERM on cycle - Clomid will do that to you lol.
 
Jinsun said:
Hahaha

This however does not coincide wih the theory proposed in this thread: using a serm saturates all receptors so e2 can't act.
Click to expand...

you're not gonna saturate ALL your receptors with a "normal dose." you will prolly actually increase estrogen receptor density if you don't manage E2 along with the SERM use.
 
AnabolicGuru said:
I think you just claim to have bloodwork so people respect your theory, which isn’t a bad theory, but I don’t believe that you got bloodwork. I think you just noticed some placebo effects which led you to believe that the clomid was working good, and instead of posting “my balls feel bigger on cycle, clomid definitely works” you figured that claiming to have bloodwork would make people not troll you. That’s my outlook.
Click to expand...
You naysayers pick apart every study, claim they are worthless, call Spurfy, me, everyone else who it worked for liars.... What's to say you wont call BS on a legit set of bloods. I mean, anyone call pull blood work of the internet, right?

You just don't want to admit to yourself that you're wrong, because obviously in your mind you're some sort of.........anabolic...guru. LMFAO. Sorry but I don't appreciate being called a liar by some kid behind a keyboard.
 
CatSnake said:
you're not gonna saturate ALL your receptors with a "normal dose." you will prolly actually increase estrogen receptor density if you don't manage E2 along with the SERM use.
Click to expand...

Okay and by receptor density you mean more e2 will bound to one receptor? Meaning that in some places estrogen activity and sides will be more prominent? Do I have to use an ai on my cycle?
 
Jinsun said:
Okay and by receptor density you mean more e2 will bound to one receptor? Meaning that in some places estrogen activity and sides will be more prominent? Do I have to use an ai on my cycle?
Click to expand...

I think he means more estrogen receptors will form in the presence of excess estrogen. I believe this happens to both estrogen and androgen receptors when the receptors become saturated AKA over excited. The bodies response is to create more receptors to accommodate the extra load.

If this is the case though and the receptor is occupied with a SERM and is not being "overworked" I am not sure if it would cause the proliferation of new receptors, my gut tells me no.

I believe SERMS have more binding affinity (you can think of it as more "magnetically" drawn to the receptor) than estrogen so the receptor will "pull" all of the surrounding SERM before it pulls the estrogen. I do not have a great understanding of this so correct me if I am wrong.

What is your cycle again? Main compound(s)
 
It's just a 6 werk 1, 4, epi andro stack . 330, 330, 600.
Then I cross over to 25mg var. Although I might add a bit more, depending on the bloods.
 
Spurfy said:
I've decided that I'd rather be called a liar than help obnoxious d-bags avoid shutdown on cycle, especially if it means there's a possibility they never breed.

I'm done with this thread and done encouraging SERMs on cycle.

I'm also done contributing to public threads.

People I consider "friends" on here may PM me for advice/discussion and I will answer individually, but this is my last public post. I don't think the majority of the BBing community deserves the knowledge I bring to the table. I'm selective with my clients, and I'm going to apply that same selectivity on here.

Bye.
Click to expand...

Don't go bro. We need ya, don't let a couple of guys get to you like that.
 
Jinsun said:
Due to the fact that my injectables are taking FOR EVER to arrive, I've started a different cycle today. It's just comprised of the stuff that I have with me atm, so it's a bit unorthodox maybe. I want the cycle to be over somewhere in the middle of June, so it is what it is. Goal is cut 6 pounds in 6 - 8 weeks and keep all mm. Going to use tamox through the whole cycle, just a question of when to start it and how much to take Spurfy ?

Cycle is based around Sparta Cerberus v2. So it's going to be a really mild one, but just for cutting I don't need more than this... Cerberus dosage, 4 pills, equates to 330 1andro, 330 4andro and 600 epiandro, with cyclosome delivery which is supposedly better then OL's Lypo...

Cerberus (pills): 4/4/4/4/4/4
Tamox (mg): 0/10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10/10
Var (mg): 0/0/0/0/25/25/25/25/12.5/12.5
Cardarine 7mg ED
Aromasin ????
UDCA: 1000mg ED
NAC 1000mg ED

This is based on the theory that tamox should help avoid suppression. I'll have test prop and cyp at hand, in two weeks time, so I can pin if suppression gets out of hand.

I have no idea about Ai usage on this cycle though... So any advice on how and if to dose would be of great help. I wouldn't use it just for the andro stack alone... And I'm kinda sceptical about the tamox saturating all ER receptors and thus eliminating the need for an Ai... :) :) :)

Will do bloods through the cycle and keep you guys in the loop.
Click to expand...

This is it ^^^
 
Jinsun said:
It's just a 6 werk 1, 4, epi andro stack . 330, 330, 600.
Then I cross over to 25mg var. Although I might add a bit more, depending on the bloods.
Click to expand...

SO basically you are just increasing the amount of DHT in your body and freeing up a little testosterone with he epiandro, correct? What is your goal?
 
Jinsun said:
This is it ^^^
Click to expand...
OK so you are just cutting. I guess that is a pretty good cycle for that. Only thing I would change is running the nola throughout and keeping var dosage the same throughout, it will become less effective over time and lowering the dose at the end will further hinder progress. If anything lower it the first couple weeks instead of the last couple if you have a limited supply.
 
Repost
 
RickyBlobby said:
OK so you are just cutting. I guess that is a pretty good cycle for that. Only thing I would change is running the nola throughout and keeping var dosage the same throughout, it will become less effective over time and lowering the dose at the end will further hinder progress. If anything lower it the first couple weeks instead of the last couple if you have a limited supply.
Click to expand...

No, I have 5000mg of it... The reasoning behind lowering it at the end was to help with recovery.
 
I just have to report that I took my morning dose of Ma Torem a few hours ago and things really seemed to kick in for me and feel very similar to my first source. Libido was quite high and I was sporting some wood that just would not quit. That is the Torem I have come to love! I could say more but I don’t want to get too dirty...

Torem will definitely be my SERM of choice to run during my light prohormone cycle which I will start in 1 week or less!

I am currently running about 80-90 mg/day but I am not quite sure how much I will run during cycle. Maybe something like 40-50 mg?
 
RickyBlobby said:
I think he means more estrogen receptors will form in the presence of excess estrogen. I believe this happens to both estrogen and androgen receptors when the receptors become saturated AKA over excited. The bodies response is to create more receptors to accommodate the extra load.

If this is the case though and the receptor is occupied with a SERM and is not being "overworked" I am not sure if it would cause the proliferation of new receptors, my gut tells me no.

I believe SERMS have more binding affinity (you can think of it as more "magnetically" drawn to the receptor) than estrogen so the receptor will "pull" all of the surrounding SERM before it pulls the estrogen. I do not have a great understanding of this so correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...

yup.

but the issue is this: even if the SERM binds to most of the ER's, there is still a ton of circulating E2 floating around that needs to be dealt with (hence part of the reason SERMs actually raise E2).

so yes, you prolly need an AI....
 
CatSnake said:
yup.

but the issue is this: even if the SERM binds to most of the ER's, there is still a ton of circulating E2 floating around that needs to be dealt with (hence part of the reason SERMs actually raise E2).

so yes, you prolly need an AI....
Click to expand...

I see, but Spurfy argued that this is not the case... So now I am confused. Is the serm dose to low or do you guys just don't agree with what Spurfy said??
 
Jinsun said:
No, I have 5000mg of it... The reasoning behind lowering it at the end was to help with recovery.
Click to expand...

I don't think var is very suppressive based on the studies I've seen. I would bump up the serm dosage before I lowered the var dosage, that's just me though.
 
CatSnake said:
yup.

but the issue is this: even if the SERM binds to most of the ER's, there is still a ton of circulating E2 floating around that needs to be dealt with (hence part of the reason SERMs actually raise E2).

so yes, you prolly need an AI....
Click to expand...

I agree that an AI should always be handy, and should be used on highly aromatizing cycles to keep estrogel levels reasonable, a little excess is good in my opinion.

Jinsun said:
I see, but Spurfy argued that this is not the case... So now I am confused. Is the serm dose to low or do you guys just don't agree with what Spurfy said??
Click to expand...
I think Spurfy knows more about this than me. But. If it were me......I would have an AI handy always, but only actually use it as needed OR........ During highly aromatizing cycles where you know estrogen will be skyrocketed, like moderate to high dose test, trest, dbol etc.

For your cycle I wou;ldnt worry about it unless you start getting sides like itchy nips or start crying and watching soap operas.
 
Ricky10 said:
I just have to report that I took my morning dose of Ma Torem a few hours ago and things really seemed to kick in for me and feel very similar to my first source. Libido was quite high and I was sporting some wood that just would not quit. That is the Torem I have come to love! I could say more but I don’t want to get too dirty...

Torem will definitely be my SERM of choice to run during my light prohormone cycle which I will start in 1 week or less!

I am currently running about 80-90 mg/day but I am not quite sure how much I will run during cycle. Maybe something like 40-50 mg?
Click to expand...

Better log it!
 
Found this, he talks about Torem use DURING and for PCT purposes...take from it what you will...

Toremifene Dosage During Anabolic Steroid Use
Due to the nature of the compound, it is impossible to categorize Toremifene into the typical three tiers of users (the three tiers being beginners, intermediates, and advanced). These are normally broken down and explained in the majority of profiles concerning the different anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. Toremifene in particular is not normally utilized for the sole (or direct) purpose of physique or performance enhancement, and is instead known as an ancillary support compound. As an ancillary compound, Toremifene is utilized by anabolic steroid users to mitigate various undesirable side effects caused by excessive production of Estrogen when aromatizable anabolic steroids are used. In some ways, Toremifene could be said to enhance performance somewhat as a result of its endogenous Testosterone boosting effects via HPTA stimulation. However, the use of Toremifene doses for this purpose is highly unlikely to produce significant performance or physique enhancing changes. In this instance, a Toremifene dosage protocol is best utilized for the purpose of restoring HPTA and endogenous hormone function during PCT (Post Cycle Therapy).
For the purpose of mitigating gynecomastia (either prevention, treatment, mitigation, or otherwise): the Toremifene dosage required during the use of aromatizable anabolic steroids for the prevention of gynecomastia is that of 30 – 60mg per day. In the event that gynecomastia has already begun to form (or has already formed), it is recommended to utilize a stronger Toremifene dosage of 120mg per day until gynecomastia symptoms subside. If gynecomastia has already developed (or is in the midst of development), it is recommended to run Toremifene alongside an aromatase inhibitor for the greatest possible effects.
An important note to make is that while Nolvadex has demonstrated to negatively impact IGF-1 levels during use, Toremifene has yet to demonstrate this effect in clinical studies. It is for this reason that Nolvadex is not recommended to be utilized on a chronic daily basis while on-cycle, for IGF-1 levels (a very important anabolic hormone) will be drastically reduced, impacting the potential gains during cycle. It should be kept in mind, however, that Toremifene is an almost identical sibling compound to Nolvadex and that it might very well be possible that it exhibits the same activity in the body, and that it is yet to be noticed in clinical studies. It could be possible that Toremifene exhibits far less of an impact on IGF-1 levels than does Nolvadex, but that increasing doses of Toremifene might have the same effect. Furthermore, it is not recommended to run Toremifene more than is minimally necessary during cycles due to the sheer fact that it causes SHBG levels to increase, reducing total free Testosterone in the body[1].

Full article link:
Invalid Link Removed
 
God info.

Personally I would rather have reduced IGF-1 levels, which should be able to be negated by using, say, MK during the cycle.....Than permanently damaging your HTPA. HTPA damage does occur every single cycle, whether it be 1%, 5%, 15% depends on the length of the cycle.

In short, your IGF levels will come back to baseline, your HTPA will not. The goal is maximum gains AND minimum damage. I'd rather sacrifice 1/2 lb of muscle if it meant keeping my HTPA safe...
 
Hopefully people will note that the article i posted was written from someone with an educational background in all this stuff...And I'm sure 99% of the posts on forums are from guys that work construction...****, myself included!
 
Kratom267 said:
Hopefully people will note that the article i posted was written from someone with an educational background in all this stuff...And I'm sure 99% of the posts on forums are from guys that work construction...****, myself included!
Click to expand...
Spurfy supports SERMS on cycle and he apparently has a degree in pharmacology and toxicology. I don't think he has a reason to lie about that either, as he seems to know the particulars quite well.
 
RickyBlobby said:
Spurfy supports SERMS on cycle and he apparently has a degree in pharmacology and toxicology. I don't think he has a reason to lie about that either, and he seems to know the particulars quite well.
Click to expand...

haha that 1%

On a side note, Spurfy (and of course you sir) helped me make up mind on if/when i will run torem during my cycle...so, hats off to you two fellas!
 
CatSnake said:
yup.

but the issue is this: even if the SERM binds to most of the ER's, there is still a ton of circulating E2 floating around that needs to be dealt with (hence part of the reason SERMs actually raise E2).

so yes, you prolly need an AI....
Click to expand...
No because if there is no receptors for it to bind to it can not do anything.
 
rowz4broz said:
Better log it!
Click to expand...

I will definitely give it some thought. At the very least...I will give some feedback.

Like I said, we are talking mild. Cynostane ..which is rarely mentioned but I really enjoy it (no laughing)
I will be throwing in Androsterone and Epi-Andro as well.

Gotta get in beach shape somehow! It’s been hard the past 6 weeks with my elbow tendinitis severely limiting my workouts. It’s really coming along though now and I anticipate being 100% within 2 more weeks.
 
rtmilburn said:
No because if there is no receptors for it to bind to it can not do anything.
Click to expand...

Exactly. This is what we were debating 15 pages back in this thread. We have now done a full circle. Could we please make up our minds, or get some literature to support one or the other claim:

a) "with the use of tamox/torem on cycle you need an Ai"
b) "with the use of tamox/torem on cycle you don't need an Ai"

For f**k sakes... The sheer amount of broscience is getting to me slowly...:smashfreakB:
 
I'll definitely be logging my DMZ cycle (with 15mg to 30mg Torem DURING the cycle), for those interested. Ill try to be as thorough as possible with details concerning the addition of Torem.

Keep in mind that I have run a DMZ cycle before, but the details are hazy. It was from at least 5yrs ago, and sadly I was also prescribed the evil drug Klonapin for 10yrs and after finally beating the addiction, my mind has been completely shot! From what little I do recall concerning DMZ, my side effects were low and muscle strength was insanely high! I didn't run a SERM during the cycle either, and noticed testicular shrinkage and zero libido during the cycle...so this time should be interesting! Last time, I ran only Clomid and a cheap OTC test booster...This go around will be Torem (haven't decided on dosage during PCT), Rebirth, and Kings Blood...hoping for a full recovery!

*Torem used will be from MAresearch
 
I don't think there will be any literature out there where they gave a group of people 500mg a week of testosterone and verified receptor saturation with SERMs. Sorry.

I think spurfy is onto something. But The thought of having 2-3x the amount of normal estrogen still doesn't sit right with me., Which is why I think it is a good idea to use it AS NEEDED OR on HIGHLY aromatizing cycles just as a precaution.
 
Jinsun said:
Exactly. This is what we were debating 15 pages back in this thread. We have now done a full circle. Could we please make up our minds, or get some literature to support one or the other claim:

a) "with the use of tamox/torem on cycle you need an Ai"
b) "with the use of tamox/torem on cycle you don't need an Ai"

For f**k sakes... The sheer amount of broscience is getting to me slowly...:smashfreakB:
Click to expand...

Why would you need to run an AI if you use Tamox/Torem during cycle? Seems like that would only be a problem during PCT, as with most any cycle...
 
Mike Arnold


What are your thoughts about SERMs on cycle to limit suppression?
 
rtmilburn said:
No because if there is no receptors for it to bind to it can not do anything.
Click to expand...

Excessively high estrogen can absolutely do things, you just won’t get gyno on enough SERM (provided prolactin isn’t becoming excessive as well). Water retention, increased bp, negative effects on lipid profile, potential libido issues.

No AI is necessary on cycles THE WAY SPURFY RUNS THEM FOR HIS BODY (300 Test/wk, 30mg Var/day).

Jinsun said:
Exactly. This is what we were debating 15 pages back in this thread. We have now done a full circle. Could we please make up our minds, or get some literature to support one or the other claim:

a) "with the use of tamox/torem on cycle you need an Ai"
b) "with the use of tamox/torem on cycle you don't need an Ai"

For f**k sakes... The sheer amount of broscience is getting to me slowly...:smashfreakB:
Click to expand...

On your cycle, tamoxifen and the episndro would be enough for me to prevent gyno and keep e2 levels acceptable to me (and I am gyno-prone).

But cycles with wet compounds in larger amounts should definitely be looking at an AI. Some don’t get gyno on 1g test, but their estro can still be high enough it’s impacting health.
 
May as well take advantage of his knowledge while he's around :)
 
Hyde said:
Excessively high estrogen can absolutely do things, you just won’t get gyno on enough SERM (provided prolactin isn’t becoming excessive as well). Water retention, increased bp, negative effects on lipid profile, potential libido issues.
Click to expand...

This was argued before and the answer was that e2 can't act if all ER are taken by a serm. So does e2 increase water, bp and worsens lipids even if it can't bind to any ER's? IMO a serm wont block all ER's with a low dosage of let's say 10mg nolva, or even a bigger one but that's just my pessimism... :)
 
On a side not, Spurfy has advocated this excact protocol not long ago in his own thread about the same topic:

Invalid Link Removed

Funny thing is he quit that topic the same as he did this one and he also didn't post his bloods. Not insinuation anything, just finding it funny.

What's more funny IMO is that he gave an explanation for his khm... not politically correct demeanour.

Spurfy said:
I have my methods for a reason -- I find that people don't respond well to new ideas unless you really challenge them, offend their sensibilities, and generally piss them off, first. It's like make-up sex...

If that means I look like a dbag, so be it.
Click to expand...


:hail: :clap2: :laugh:
 
Hyde said:
Excessively high estrogen can absolutely do things, you just won’t get gyno on enough SERM (provided prolactin isn’t becoming excessive as well). Water retention, increased bp, negative effects on lipid profile, potential libido issues.

No AI is necessary on cycles THE WAY SPURFY RUNS THEM FOR HIS BODY (300 Test/wk, 30mg Var/day).



On your cycle, tamoxifen and the episndro would be enough for me to prevent gyno and keep e2 levels acceptable to me (and I am gyno-prone).

But cycles with wet compounds in larger amounts should definitely be looking at an AI. Some don’t get gyno on 1g test, but their estro can still be high enough it’s impacting health.
Click to expand...
Tell me how!!!! Please!! if the receptors are saturated with a serm, how is it supposed to bind to cause those side effects?
 
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