Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Clomid during cycle

BBiceps said:
First week of my Var&Clomid cycle, nothing really out of the ordinary to report, more than I been more thirsty than usual. I have lifted really good this week, trying to gain as much strength as possible to get to my goal of 4 plates on all major lifts, I’m in LA until next weekend so I’ll be lifting at Gold’s and you guys know that lifting there makes you 20% stronger so it should be a good week ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah I've noticed people are much bigger there, like Arnold, piana and about every other narcissistic bodybuilder/you tuber out there who wants people to meet them lol. That's the gym one would say, I don't feel that huge today
 
Chados said:
Yeah I've noticed people are much bigger there, like Arnold, piana and about every other narcissistic bodybuilder/you tuber out there who wants people to meet them lol. That's the gym one would say, I don't feel that huge today
Click to expand...

Funny, I saw fake ass Castleberry there today, he walked around, asking random people to spot him on weights that’s farily heavy but no way near as heavy as he claims on his fake YouTube videos. I was on the elliptical for 20 min and he did only 1 weak set during that time. That guy annoys me so bad!
 
BBiceps said:
Funny, I saw fake ass Castleberry there today, he walked around, asking random people to spot him on weights that’s farily heavy but no way near as heavy as he claims on his fake YouTube videos. I was on the elliptical for 20 min and he did only 1 weak set during that time. That guy annoys me so bad!
Click to expand...

Haha yeah you wonder why they don't marry themselves.. Then they act humle but deep within they are just looking for compliments
 
Soooo, forgive me if this has been touched on, I've been reading a few pages back and can't find much besides one small instance, but using nolva over clomid on cycle would, theoretically, work the same. Right?
 
HeavierPlease said:
Soooo, forgive me if this has been touched on, I've been reading a few pages back and can't find much besides one small instance, but using nolva over clomid on cycle would, theoretically, work the same. Right?
Click to expand...

Not really. Clomid doesn’t protect from gyno to the same extent, and Nolva is about 10-15% less stimulating to LH in the studies I’ve seen. Which one (or whether you use both) when you come off is based on the user’s needs. But both will get you restarted in time. Toremifene actually combines some of the best qualities of each. Clomid is still king for LH increase, but Torem is a great second choice if sides are too much on Clomid. And it acts more like Nolva on the chest’s estrogen receptors.
 
BBiceps said:
Funny, I saw fake ass Castleberry there today, he walked around, asking random people to spot him on weights that’s farily heavy but no way near as heavy as he claims on his fake YouTube videos. I was on the elliptical for 20 min and he did only 1 weak set during that time. That guy annoys me so bad!
Click to expand...

Lmao Castleberry is by far the biggest douchebag in fitness. It’s unreal. Hahaha
 
Hyde said:
Not really. Clomid doesn’t protect from gyno to the same extent, and Nolva is about 10-15% less stimulating to LH in the studies I’ve seen. Which one (or whether you use both) when you come off is based on the user’s needs. But both will get you restarted in time. Toremifene actually combines some of the best qualities of each. Clomid is still king for LH increase, but Torem is a great second choice if sides are too much on Clomid. And it acts more like Nolva on the chest’s estrogen receptors.
Click to expand...

I see. Thank you!
 
Yeah I think torem is the way to go, especially if clomid doesn't agree with you. 30mg a day on cycle. Maybe 45-60 if on a 19-nor like trest
 
Hyde said:
Not really. Clomid doesn’t protect from gyno to the same extent, and Nolva is about 10-15% less stimulating to LH in the studies I’ve seen. Which one (or whether you use both) when you come off is based on the user’s needs. But both will get you restarted in time. Toremifene actually combines some of the best qualities of each. Clomid is still king for LH increase, but Torem is a great second choice if sides are too much on Clomid. And it acts more like Nolva on the chest’s estrogen receptors.
Click to expand...
Half way through a var/tore cycle and I'll honestly never try anything else unless tore stops working.
 
I’ve read this entire thread in one go. Holy hell that took a long time and I can’t see straight.

I suppose I’ve got a question that’s not really been directly answered, or maybe I missed it, and at this point is basically theoretical:

What’s the fewest effective mg of clomid to take on cycle to prevent lethargy and/or shutdown?

This may be impossible to answer, but would 25 mg eod be enough on ph or SARMS? What about heavy gear? Given the half-life of clomid, could we even postulate that 25 mg every 3rd day may be sufficient in some cases?
 
flandersguy said:
I’ve read this entire thread at one time. Holy hell that took a long time and I can’t see straight.

I suppose I’ve got a question that’s not really been directly answered, or maybe I missed it, and at this point is basically theoretical:

What’s the fewest effective mg of clomid to take on cycle to prevent lethargy and/or shutdown?

This may be impossible to answer, but would 25 mg eod be enough on ph or SARMS? What about heavy gear? Given the half-life of clomid, could we even postulate that 25 mg every 3rd day may be sufficient in some cases?
Click to expand...

I think it’s going to vary and it will be hard to say per individual. Best option would be to get bloods prior, run cycle and what you would assume minimally effective clomid dose, and check partially through the cycle to see if it’s keeping your test elevated. Seems that 25mg eod might be a good place to start. I know that is enough to raise my testosterone substantially while not using something that causes shutdown...so maybe it would even out? Also could judge by symptoms and up it if feeling flat I guess
 
flandersguy said:
I’ve read this entire thread in one go. Holy hell that took a long time and I can’t see straight.

I suppose I’ve got a question that’s not really been directly answered, or maybe I missed it, and at this point is basically theoretical:

What’s the fewest effective mg of clomid to take on cycle to prevent lethargy and/or shutdown?

This may be impossible to answer, but would 25 mg eod be enough on ph or SARMS? What about heavy gear? Given the half-life of clomid, could we even postulate that 25 mg every 3rd day may be sufficient in some cases?
Click to expand...

I really can’t answer that. I can tell you that 25mg ed kept my total test around 450 on cycle. So I would assume eod would not be enough. At least on a moderate cycle 750mg/ week
 
I wonder if dosing Clomid or any serm really on cycle with a DHT based prohormone would also help (slightly maybe) reduce severity of hair loss, I cannot explain my thought process properly with writing, but I wonder if anyone has similar thoughts?

Edit; Basically I am thinking of hormone balance and ratios
 
flandersguy said:
I’ve read this entire thread in one go. Holy hell that took a long time and I can’t see straight.

I suppose I’ve got a question that’s not really been directly answered, or maybe I missed it, and at this point is basically theoretical:

What’s the fewest effective mg of clomid to take on cycle to prevent lethargy and/or shutdown?

This may be impossible to answer, but would 25 mg eod be enough on ph or SARMS? What about heavy gear? Given the half-life of clomid, could we even postulate that 25 mg every 3rd day may be sufficient in some cases?
Click to expand...

We haven’t proved anything for one; there’s just some good evidence that Clomid and Toremifene can slow shutdown on milder cycles. So to say there’s a minimum dose is flawed because we can’t establish that it will even always work.

It’s safe to say it will depend on both the user and the cycle. Trenavar is just an oral PH, for example, but it’s a prohormone to trenbolone and is actually very suppressive. So saying Xmg is right for ph’s doesn’t really work either.

The one thing I can say for sure if using a SERM to try to inhibit shutdown on cycle: start it from just before the cycle and take it daily - you will constantly have exogenous hormones signaling for a shutdown, so you definitely want the SERM there to work against that at all times. You want 0 lapse in coverage, if you understand - you are fighting a losing battle the longer and heavier the cycle goes on after all.
 
RickyBlobby said:
I really can’t answer that. I can tell you that 25mg ed kept my total test around 450. So I would assume eod would not be enough. At least on a moderate cycle 750mg/ week
Click to expand...

It’s funny how different it works for people, 25mg of Clomid ed takes my levels from mid 400’s to low 900’s.
 
Of course, it’s all very speculative at this time, but the questions are very interesting.

It seems to me that more peer-reviewed research is required.
 
BBiceps said:
It’s funny how different it works for people, 25mg of Clomid ed takes my levels from mid 400’s to low 900’s.
Click to expand...
I think that is pretty common.
 
Hiddengains tell us about your experience with this method
 
BBiceps said:
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood, my bad. I was reading&typing in my car so I missed that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wasn't very clear. I fixed my post.
 
PCT, was a breeze.. took nolva 20mg initially every other day and then dropped down to 10mg whenever i would remember and aramosin 12.5 every week during the last month of my 3 month LGD cycle (10mg, did 20 for like the last weeks). Got bloods the day after my last LGD dose without taking any nolva.. i got the labwork done around 2-3pm so my test should be lower than if i had gotten bloods in the morning.

Results
Test - 464ng/dl
Lh - 5.1
Fsh - 3.0
Estrogen - 33.5
Prolactin - 12.7
 
Hiddengains said:
PCT, was a breeze.. took nolva 20mg initially every other day and then dropped down to 10mg whenever i would remember and aramosin 12.5 every week during the last month of my 3 month LGD cycle (10mg, did 20 for like the last weeks). Got bloods the day after my last LGD dose without taking any nolva.. i got the labwork done around 2-3pm so my test should be lower than if i had gotten bloods in the morning.

Results
Test - 464ng/dl
Lh - 5.1
Fsh - 3.0
Estrogen - 33.5
Prolactin - 12.7
Click to expand...

Wait so..these are the results of your first day of PCT?
 
Nah, I'm saying my PCT was a breeze cause at no point did i feel like shi... lol. Those results were a day after my last LGD dose. I made sure not to take any nolva the day of the test...

Basically for the last month of my LGD cycle i took nolva pretty inconsistently and aramosin at least once a week. I added aramosin because i ended up getting rebound gyno after i used nolva to pct before. In Oct I'll try either Msten, DMZ, or Superdrol with 30mg of Torem instead. I'll get bloods before and hopefully mid cycle, if not the last week of the cycle for sure to see if torem will maintain my HPTA.
 
RickyBlobby said:
Yeah I think torem is the way to go, especially if clomid doesn't agree with you. 30mg a day on cycle. Maybe 45-60 if on a 19-nor like trest
Click to expand...

Curious how a serm helps with 19nor's? Are you talking only i terms of shutdown or also about gyno from prolactin?
 
Jinsun said:
Curious how a serm helps with 19nor's? Are you talking only i terms of shutdown or also about gyno from prolactin?
Click to expand...

It does with Trest most specifically because of the type of estrogen it converts to. It renders AI very ineffective. So, the most breast-specific serms are more helpful, simply for gyno prevention. I honestly don’t know enough to state how it would help with shutdown or water retention etc. But these guys read more science-based articles than I do so they may be able to shed more light on that.
 
Hiddengains said:
PCT, was a breeze.. took nolva 20mg initially every other day and then dropped down to 10mg whenever i would remember and aramosin 12.5 every week during the last month of my 3 month LGD cycle (10mg, did 20 for like the last weeks). Got bloods the day after my last LGD dose without taking any nolva.. i got the labwork done around 2-3pm so my test should be lower than if i had gotten bloods in the morning.

Results
Test - 464ng/dl
Lh - 5.1
Fsh - 3.0
Estrogen - 33.5
Prolactin - 12.7
Click to expand...

huh....

I'm not questioning your integrity or anything, but genuinely doubt that the LGD was legit..... do you happen to have your pre-cycle bloodwork?
 
Precycle bloods were like a couple months prior to my cycle when i got the rebound gyno.

Test was 966ng/dl
prolactin 21
Estrogen 51.8
 
CatSnake said:
huh....

I'm not questioning your integrity or anything, but genuinely doubt that the LGD was legit..... do you happen to have your pre-cycle bloodwork?
Click to expand...

Even if the LGD wasn't legit, my aramosin and nolva is pharmacy grade. So my test would be through the roof like my precycle bloods. So i was definitely taking an anabolic.
 
Hiddengains said:
Even if the LGD wasn't legit, my aramosin and nolva is pharmacy grade. So my test would be through the roof like my precycle bloods. So i was definitely taking an anabolic.
Click to expand...

I'm not really saying you weren't taking an anabolic.... more like what you were taking was something other than LGD.

I would assume that your E2 would have been way, way lower with LGD+Aromasin.
 
CatSnake said:
I'm not really saying you weren't taking an anabolic.... more like what you were taking was something other than LGD.

I would assume that your E2 would have been way, way lower with LGD+Aromasin.
Click to expand...

+1

Lgd doesn't arometise and it shuts you down. Taking aromasin by it self doesn't on an lgd cycle doesn't make any sense and is a bad idea. Why did you take aromasin the last month?
 
You guys aren't reading. After my first cycle i got rebound gyno from nolva. Hence i used a real low dose of exemestane 6.25mg to 12mg every week during the last month when i was taking nolva and LGD.

LGD didn't cause my gyno, nolva did. Rebound gyno is a thing, especially with Nolva. Look it up, it's recommended that you use low dose exemestane one week after PCT.

Regardless what the anabolic was, my total test dropped and my lh, fsh, and estrogen was within range. I'm not sure what else y'all need. I'm like spurfy at this point if you don't think it works try it out for yourself. What's the worst that could happen you'll be out 4wks worth of PCT?
 
Hiddengains said:
Ytest dropped and my lh, fsh, and estrogen was within range. I'm not sure what else y'all need. I'm like spurfy at this point if you don't think it works try it out for yourself. What's the worst that could happen you'll be out 4wks worth of PCT?
Click to expand...

because, I'm trying to isolate the variables to analyze this, especially with SARMs involved. (with all the weird side effects reported from various SARMs, I know a lot of us are very suspicious of the manufacturers of them right now...)

FWIW, I've taken Nolva along with my TRT, and my LH and FSH didn't budge. that's obviously not the same, but it's clear that a SERM along with exogenous androgens will not reverse HPTA shutdown.
 
Hiddengains said:
Regardless what the anabolic was, my total test dropped and my lh, fsh, and estrogen was within range. I'm not sure what else y'all need. I'm like spurfy at this point if you don't think it works try it out for yourself. What's the worst that could happen you'll be out 4wks worth of PCT?
Click to expand...

Thats the point right there. If what you were taking is really lgd at 20mg ed this would have been great news. But lgd at 20mg shutts ypu down hard, it does so at much much lower doses. Lots of sarms are also actually serms or they contain them.

But yeah, not much to lose if you just try. I did and it did nothing for me...
 
Jinsun said:
Thats the point right there. If what you were taking is really lgd at 20mg ed this would have been great news. But lgd at 20mg shutts ypu down hard, it does so at much much lower doses. Lots of sarms are also actually serms or they contain them.

But yeah, not much to lose if you just try. I did and it did nothing for me...
Click to expand...

LGD at 20mg doesn't make a lot of sense. If you want to run more SARMS, run OSTARINE alongside LGD for healing, OR run MK-677 alongside LGD.
 
Jinsun said:
Thats the point right there. If what you were taking is really lgd at 20mg ed this would have been great news. But lgd at 20mg shutts ypu down hard, it does so at much much lower doses. Lots of sarms are also actually serms or they contain them.

But yeah, not much to lose if you just try. I did and it did nothing for me...
Click to expand...

Whats the sarms being serms thing about?
I haven't heard about that.
 
CatSnake said:
because, I'm trying to isolate the variables to analyze this, especially with SARMs involved. (with all the weird side effects reported from various SARMs, I know a lot of us are very suspicious of the manufacturers of them right now...)

FWIW, I've taken Nolva along with my TRT, and my LH and FSH didn't budge. that's obviously not the same, but it's clear that a SERM along with exogenous androgens will not reverse HPTA shutdown.
Click to expand...

The theory isn’t to reverse HTPA shut down is it ? But rather minimize the shutdown?
 
CatSnake said:
because, I'm trying to isolate the variables to analyze this, especially with SARMs involved. (with all the weird side effects reported from various SARMs, I know a lot of us are very suspicious of the manufacturers of them right now...)

FWIW, I've taken Nolva along with my TRT, and my LH and FSH didn't budge. that's obviously not the same, but it's clear that a SERM along with exogenous androgens will not reverse HPTA shutdown.
Click to expand...

.. so the whole point is to see if Serms can maintain HPTA while "on" per se. It's not going to work on all cycles, if that isn't clear to you by now I'm not sure what else to say. In the study, the Test dosages were far below TRT. If you're on a mild cycle without test, a SERM preferably Torem should work. For most of the cycles on this forum who are taking mild pro-hormones a SERM throughout should help.

Your example was horrible, too many variables. You seem intelligent, so clearly you know this. How long were you on TRT prior to taking Nolva? I'm sure the length of time your HPTA has been dormant matters, hence why some people have difficulty restarting their HPTA. Are you on TRT permanently, if so you may have to take a SERM for quite some time before seeing any Lh, Fsh changes. Are you willing to take a SERM for 3+ to find out?
 
Yeah lemme state clearly it’s naive to expect a restart while on anabolics if already shut down. It may be possible but shouldn’t be expected at all. The goal is to attempt to slow/limit shutdown by taking from the very start. Just trying to spend less time fully suppressed if possible, essentially.
 
Hiddengains said:
.. so the whole point is to see if Serms can maintain HPTA while "on" per se. It's not going to work on all cycles, if that isn't clear to you by now I'm not sure what else to say. In the study, the Test dosages were far below TRT. If you're on a mild cycle without test, a SERM preferably Torem should work. For most of the cycles on this forum who are taking mild pro-hormones per a SERM throughout should help.

Your example was horrible, too many variables. You seem intelligent, so clearly you know this. How long were you on TRT prior to taking Nolva? I'm sure the length of time your HPTA has been dormant matters, hence why some people have difficulty restarting their HPTA. Are you on TRT permanently, if so you may have to take a SERM for quite some time before seeing any Lh, Fsh changes. Are you willing to take a SERM for 3+ to find out?
Click to expand...
Can confirm with var and torem. I am like 30+ days into a cycle if 50-70var/30torem with zero side effects except for back pumps. Balls and sex drive feel no different.
 
Some people just wont believe no matter what information you give them.

Me, spurfy, hiddengains, (and at least one other person) all had bloodwork. K3 and about 3 other people in this thread report normal ball size and no signs of suppression. Every instance was met with doubt. Which is understandable. But if you look at the collective evidence the overwhelming majority show evidence that SERMs protect your HTPA. COmplete shutdown and permanent atrophy of your leydig cells should be avoided at all costs and it seems clear to me that SERMs do protect your HTPA in the vast majority of instances.

With all the data provided in this thread I would not run a cycle without a SERM (or HCG) again, unless on TRT.
 
Jinsun said:
Curious how a serm helps with 19nor's? Are you talking only i terms of shutdown or also about gyno from prolactin?
Click to expand...

Edit shutdown and gyno from methyl estrogen
 
Hiddengains said:
.. so the whole point is to see if Serms can maintain HPTA while "on" per se. It's not going to work on all cycles, if that isn't clear to you by now I'm not sure what else to say. In the study, the Test dosages were far below TRT. If you're on a mild cycle without test, a SERM preferably Torem should work. For most of the cycles on this forum who are taking mild pro-hormones a SERM throughout should help.

Your example was horrible, too many variables. You seem intelligent, so clearly you know this. How long were you on TRT prior to taking Nolva? I'm sure the length of time your HPTA has been dormant matters, hence why some people have difficulty restarting their HPTA. Are you on TRT permanently, if so you may have to take a SERM for quite some time before seeing any Lh, Fsh changes. Are you willing to take a SERM for 3+ to find out?
Click to expand...

I'm not making my point clear here....

my issue is with the legitimacy of SARMs in general, and in this case, I would assume your E2 to be really low.

I'm not really arguing about the SERM on cycle thing anymore (geez, me and RickyBlobby are finally getting along, afterall!).

I think my point is detracting from this discussion.
 
THOR 70 said:
The theory isn’t to reverse HTPA shut down is it ? But rather minimize the shutdown?
Click to expand...

no, you're right.

but I guess it does show the strength of the compounds... a SERM added in does not raise my LH or FSH, or reverse testicular atrophy on cycle/TRT. however, HCG added in does reverse the atrophy, thereby reversing testicular shutdown. I've stopped HCG a couple times while on TRT, and seen the atrophy occur, and the ensuing reversal when adding it back in. I've also dabbled with a SERM (nolva and ralox) while on TRT, and not seen any noticeable affect in this area.

if you're looking to avoid suppression, then I would argue that HCG is mandatory. but if you're looking to avoid shutdown and can handle a little suppression, then a SERM could work, especially if HCG is hard to source or something.... (but I don't think this is being argued, that a SERM is comparable to HCG)
 
CatSnake said:
I'm not making my point clear here....

my issue is with the legitimacy of SARMs in general, and in this case, I would assume your E2 to be really low.

I'm not really arguing about the SERM on cycle thing anymore (geez, me and RickyBlobby are finally getting along, afterall!).

I think my point is detracting from this discussion.
Click to expand...

Clearly it is detracting. As nobody here really cares about how you feel in regards to the legitimacy of SARMs. They're here to see if SERMs will help maintain their HPTA.

CatSnake said:
no, you're right.

but I guess it does show the strength of the compounds... a SERM added in does not raise my LH or FSH, or reverse testicular atrophy on cycle/TRT. however, HCG added in does reverse the atrophy, thereby reversing testicular shutdown. I've stopped HCG a couple times while on TRT, and seen the atrophy occur, and the ensuing reversal when adding it back in. I've also dabbled with a SERM (nolva and ralox) while on TRT, and not seen any noticeable affect in this area.

if you're looking to avoid suppression, then I would argue that HCG is mandatory. but if you're looking to avoid shutdown and can handle a little suppression, then a SERM could work, especially if HCG is hard to source or something.... (but I don't think this is being argued, that a SERM is comparable to HCG)
Click to expand...

You seem to have a lot of questions in general, which is great. How about answering some? How long have you been on TRT? How far into being on TRT did you try to use a SERM? How long did you take said SERM to see if it would help bounce back your dormant testicles?
 
Hiddengains said:
Clearly it is detracting. As nobody here really cares about how you feel in regards to the legitimacy of SARMs. They're here to see if SERMs will help maintain their HPTA.



You seem to have a lot of questions in general, which is great. How about answering some? How long have you been on TRT? How far into being on TRT did you try to use a SERM? How long did you take said SERM to see if it would help bounce back your dormant testicles?
Click to expand...

if you're going to insult me and say I'm detracting from the post, then it's quite laughable that you ask me more questions.
 
I always have to lol at all the mini fights on AM that are just bound to happen over text and the fact that a lot of us are high testosterone alphas
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top