Celtic Labs Ostabol Mini-Log (Bloodwork)

[jarhead]

Test is exactly that. Just a number.If you were gaining mass normally with exercise, weren't tired, had good libido, felt great, etc, and you tested your testosterone and found it to be 250, what would that mean? Conversely, if you were feeling tired, lethargic, had erectile dysfunction, low libido, couldn't put on muscle mass, depressed, etc, tested your test and it was 1000, what would that mean?The value is much less important than how you're actually feeling. If the OP hadn't drawn bloods, he'd have no idea his test was suppressed.As far as using it in PCT, the rationale is that the suppression you get from osta is overcome by hpta stimulation from the serm. Is it possible you'll recover slower than without the osta? Absolutely. IMO the benefits of not losing muscle mass off cycle outweigh the risks. Furthermore, my own labs have shown recovery for me even with high dose osta. Others might have different experiences. No one is forcing them to use it, though.

That sounds nice and all but the reality of it is that people aren't going to the doc with test levels of 1000 complaining of libido problems (unless there is an estrogen issue) and they aren't going to be treated for s deficiency at that level. On the same note if a person is around 200, they generally feel like ****. While he may not feel bad right at the moment, he also just wrapped up his cycle. Feeling fine with a test level below normal is not the norm, it is the exception.

 

[JD261985]

A little more suppression with this guys bloods http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=131819913

 

[JD261985]

Blah more suppression not helping my mentality here

http://www.prohormoneforum.com/prohormone-forum/47327-ostarine-bloodwork-results-suppression.html

 

[Grayson]

Who wants to buy my two bottles?

 

[funkd0c]

Who wants to buy my two bottles?

Depends on the deal. But, yeah I loved ostabol, so I'd take them if you wanna get rid of them

 

[JD261985]

Chef Joey it would be great to see your bloods in a few weeks to see if you bounced back. Also I've always used osta with formeron. Within 3 days of being off osta my libido comes back at an insane rate. Not sure why but that's just what happens to me

 

[Grayson]

Depends on the deal. But, yeah I loved ostabol, so I'd take them if you wanna get rid of them

How was suppression/recovery?

 

[funkd0c]

How was suppression/recovery?

In my first week of PCT now. Did 4 weeks of osta at 20/30/30/30. Libido didn't drop till the last week of cycle. But already coming back almost to normal. Started PCT last Saturday.

 

[jarhead]

In my first week of PCT now. Did 4 weeks of osta at 20/30/30/30. Libido didn't drop till the last week of cycle. But already coming back almost to normal. Started PCT last Saturday.

Have you tried osta from any of the research companies and if so how does it compare?

 

[Mystere3]

That sounds nice and all but the reality of it is that people aren't going to the doc with test levels of 1000 complaining of libido problems (unless there is an estrogen issue) and they aren't going to be treated for s deficiency at that level. On the same note if a person is around 200, they generally feel like ****. While he may not feel bad right at the moment, he also just wrapped up his cycle. Feeling fine with a test level below normal is not the norm, it is the exception.

Actually most ppl I've seen in clinic who come in complaining of symptoms consistent with low T who think they might have low t have normal to high normal T. Most of the time the cause is not due to test or estrogen. Insulin resistance, psych issues like depression/anxiety, drug side effects and vascular disease are by far the most common causes I've seen. Low T and high estrogen do become more of an issue in much older men or those on androgen deprivation therapy but in the 20-55 age group it's less common than you'd think.

 

[funkd0c]

Have you tried osta from any of the research companies and if so how does it compare?

I have not. Ostabol was my first experience with a SARM. 30mg felt similar if not better than 75mg of Halo. Less blood pressure issues on osta than halo as well. But, I'd like to hear what someone says on their experience with the research osta.

 

[Mystere3]

I have not. Ostabol was my first experience with a SARM. 30mg felt similar if not better than 75mg of Halo. Less blood pressure issues on osta than halo as well. But, I'd like to hear what someone says on their experience with the research osta.

I've used a couple of them. I've also used iml and Celtic. I think Celtic is comparable with the best of the RC osta in terms of effects and much easier to dose. Some of the rc osta is bunk or underdosed.

 

[jarhead]

Actually most ppl I've seen in clinic who come in complaining of symptoms consistent with low T who think they might have low t have normal to high normal T. Most of the time the cause is not due to test or estrogen. Insulin resistance, psych issues like depression/anxiety, drug side effects and vascular disease are by far the most common causes I've seen. Low T and high estrogen do become more of an issue in much older men or those on androgen deprivation therapy but in the 20-55 age group it's less common than you'd think.

Other factors can obviously contribute or have similar symptoms but I think that saying MOST of the time people with those symptoms have normal to high test is a pretty questionable claim. Most younger guys also don't first assume they have a test issue. I sure didn't when I started treatment. My endocrinologist also would disagree that it is not common in the 20-55 age group. In fact, I've had 2 tell me it is increasingly more common in younger men. And how many guys do you see with test levels around 200 that feel great? This is all beside the point, which is that in my opinion recommending the use of a suppressive compound during pct is bad advice.

 

[Mystere3]

Ppl aren't going to be referred to an endo without documented endocrine abnormalities. My point is that most ppl who think they have low t really don't.

My T is probably undetectable right now after 3 weeks of high dose dmz yet I feel great.

You don't have to take ostarine in pct if you don't want to. Like I said before; prior to sarms many of us took low dose anavar in pct, which is obv suppressive, along with high dose clomid and novla, and recovered. Is that optimal? Fck no. We still felt it was better than losing 30% of our on-cycle gains in pct. Now that's not necessary with the development of sarms, and high dose serm pcts aren't necessary either. I've run osta in pct after the most suppressive cycles imaginable (m1t kicker, test, tren, eq, with SD finisher) and recovered fine. If you don't want to take that risk, it's up to you. I'd rather keep my gains I spent 16 weeks on cycle earning even if it means recovering more slowly even though that hasn't been an issue to date.

 

[ChefJoey]

Blah more suppression not helping my mentality here

http://www.prohormoneforum.com/prohormone-forum/47327-ostarine-bloodwork-results-suppression.html

I looked at a ton if bloods before starting and it seem to vary quite a bit on how suppressive it was. Some not much at all, some quite a bit.

I knew it was somewhat of a gamble when I started.

As far as somebody requesting I get bloods soon to see if I bounce back, I have some scheduled for the end of the summer in a few months. Mind you I probably will have run Epi at some point in the next 3-4 months.

 

[Mystere3]

You should just run it now. That's essentially what sauce did and his cycle has been great.

 

[ChefJoey]

You should just run it now. That's essentially what sauce did and his cycle has been great.

That's the plan. SERM and supplies are on their way.

I'll probably start next week.

 

[jarhead]

Ppl aren't going to be referred to an endo without documented endocrine abnormalities. My point is that most ppl who think they have low t really don't.

My T is probably undetectable right now after 3 weeks of high dose dmz yet I feel great.

You don't have to take ostarine in pct if you don't want to. Like I said before; prior to sarms many of us took low dose anavar in pct, which is obv suppressive, along with high dose clomid and novla, and recovered. Is that optimal? Fck no. We still felt it was better than losing 30% of our on-cycle gains in pct. Now that's not necessary with the development of sarms, and high dose serm pcts aren't necessary either. I've run osta in pct after the most suppressive cycles imaginable (m1t kicker, test, tren, eq, with SD finisher) and recovered fine. If you don't want to take that risk, it's up to you. I'd rather keep my gains I spent 16 weeks on cycle earning even if it means recovering more slowly even though that hasn't been an issue to date.

You are on dmz. It doesn't matter that your test is undetectable. Of course it is. I feel great on superdrol too and my test is in the ****ter-because I'm on superdrol. I don't understand your point at all. A guy with test levels in the 200's while not taking anything else is going to feel like garbage 99% of the time. Running a proper pct means you aren't losing a significant amount of the gains made on a cycle. That is the whole point of pct. How exactly does a person hpta recover while continuing to take a drug that suppresses it? You are just extending a cycle. This is the same bro science that is all over the net about ostarine. If it works for you, great. But it doesn't make much sense scientifically. IThe word on sarms is all over the board. There are plenty of people with bloodwork showing they were significantly suppressed while taking it. I haven't seen bloodwork showing no suppression. I have heard people say that it is not. Maybe it is a sourcing issue and people aren't taking what they think, who knows. But that is also another problem. I'm also curious what you consider to be "recovered" if your claim is that test is just a number. Is a person recovered if his test level is around 200 but he thinks he feels "ok"? How would that person feel if his test level were at a more normal 700?

 

[Grayson]

You are on dmz. It doesn't matter that your test is undetectable. Of course it is. I feel great on superdrol too and my test is in the ****ter-because I'm on superdrol. I don't understand your point at all. A guy with test levels in the 200's while not taking anything else is going to feel like garbage 99% of the time. Running a proper pct means you aren't losing a significant amount of the gains made on a cycle. That is the whole point of pct. How exactly does a person hpta recover while continuing to take a drug that suppresses it? You are just extending a cycle. This is the same bro science that is all over the net about ostarine. If it works for you, great. But it doesn't make much sense scientifically. IThe word on sarms is all over the board. There are plenty of people with bloodwork showing they were significantly suppressed while taking it. I haven't seen bloodwork showing no suppression. I have heard people say that it is not. Maybe it is a sourcing issue and people aren't taking what they think, who knows. But that is also another problem. I'm also curious what you consider to be "recovered" if your claim is that test is just a number. Is a person recovered if his test level is around 200 but he thinks he feels "ok"? How would that person feel if his test level were at a more normal 700?

Agreed 100% and anything else just flies in the face of logic.

Although, I've seen logs on RC osta at EF (I don't think I can post links to other forums) showing no suppression whatsoever countless of times.

 

[Mystere3]

That's not correct. The purpose of pct is to restart the hpta and prevent the actions of estrogen on target tissues. I'll try to put this in simple terms so it's easy to understand.

1) you lose gains in pct because you've created a very catabolic state by ceasing to take exogenous androgens when your body isn't yet producing endogenous test. The partitioning effects of Anabolics are gone and you'll add fat preferentially and catabolize muscle. SERMs, AIs, test boosters, w/e won't stop this, at least not initially. Sure after a couple weeks your endogenous test will increase but in the interim you will lose muscle.

2) Taking low dose ostarine prevents this by having a mild anabolic effect while maintaining partitioning. Is it suppressive? At low dose it is a bit, but the suppressive effects are not as strong as the hpta stimulating effects of novla or clomid. Therefore most ppl will recover even with ostarine in pct.

3) I've drawn bloods with osta in pct on two occasions and osta solo once. The first (solo) run of osta caused my test to drop from high normal (800) to middle of the road normal (500). I didn't notice this change at all. The second occasion, I took 20 mg (RC) in pct with the cycle I mentioned before and torem, and my morning test 2 weeks after pct was 700. The third time, I took 20 mg IML osta rx after a epi/hexadrone cycle and my test 2 weeks after pct was 600.

4) Test itself isn't the only factor that affects its effects. People have different receptor affinities and receptor density. This is why people might feel great with "low" test values and not great with high test values. The most extreme examples are those with androgen insensitivity syndrome who look like women, including genitalia, but have testes (internal) and extremely high testosterone, but it does nothing because their receptors don't allow it to bind.

You are on dmz. It doesn't matter that your test is undetectable. Of course it is. I feel great on superdrol too and my test is in the ****ter-because I'm on superdrol. I don't understand your point at all. A guy with test levels in the 200's while not taking anything else is going to feel like garbage 99% of the time. Running a proper pct means you aren't losing a significant amount of the gains made on a cycle. That is the whole point of pct. How exactly does a person hpta recover while continuing to take a drug that suppresses it? You are just extending a cycle. This is the same bro science that is all over the net about ostarine. If it works for you, great. But it doesn't make much sense scientifically. IThe word on sarms is all over the board. There are plenty of people with bloodwork showing they were significantly suppressed while taking it. I haven't seen bloodwork showing no suppression. I have heard people say that it is not. Maybe it is a sourcing issue and people aren't taking what they think, who knows. But that is also another problem. I'm also curious what you consider to be "recovered" if your claim is that test is just a number. Is a person recovered if his test level is around 200 but he thinks he feels "ok"? How would that person feel if his test level were at a more normal 700?

 

[jarhead]

That's not correct. The purpose of pct is to restart the hpta and prevent the actions of estrogen on target tissues. I'll try to put this in simple terms so it's easy to understand.

1) you lose gains in pct because you've created a very catabolic state by ceasing to take exogenous androgens when your body isn't yet producing endogenous test. The partitioning effects of Anabolics are gone and you'll add fat preferentially and catabolize muscle. SERMs, AIs, test boosters, w/e won't stop this, at least not initially. Sure after a couple weeks your endogenous test will increase but in the interim you will lose muscle.

2) Taking low dose ostarine prevents this by having a mild anabolic effect while maintaining partitioning. Is it suppressive? At low dose it is a bit, but the suppressive effects are not as strong as the hpta stimulating effects of novla or clomid. Therefore most ppl will recover even with ostarine in pct.

3) I've drawn bloods with osta in pct on two occasions and osta solo once. The first (solo) run of osta caused my test to drop from high normal (800) to middle of the road normal (500). I didn't notice this change at all. The second occasion, I took 20 mg (RC) in pct with the cycle I mentioned before and torem, and my morning test 2 weeks after pct was 700. The third time, I took 20 mg IML osta rx after a epi/hexadrone cycle and my test 2 weeks after pct was 600.

4) Test itself isn't the only factor that affects its effects. People have different receptor affinities and receptor density. This is why people might feel great with "low" test values and not great with high test values. The most extreme examples are those with androgen insensitivity syndrome who look like women, including genitalia, but have testes (internal) and extremely high testosterone, but it does nothing because their receptors don't allow it to bind.

1)I stated that the purpose of a pct was to restart the hpta. You simply restated that and said I was incorrect.

2)People are reporting that is more than a little bit suppressive. You are making a huge assumption that if you take enough of a serm it will counteract the suppressive effects of another drug. If this were the case a, a person could recover on dbol. It doesn't work that way.

3)Again, you didn't notice because you were on osta and feeling the effects of another drug. Secondly, a test level of 500 is still well into normal. Try dropping from 800 to 200 and discontinuing all other drugs. You also did not recover to previous levels in your examples. You say you felt fine, well most people do when they are still on osta.

4) Again, you are using a rare example. The average person does not feel good with test values below normal.

If this stuff works for you, great. I disagree with your entire theory and because it contradicts most of what is known about pct, people's reports on being it lowering their test levels, being on trt, and the importance of bloodwork in favor of recommending a largely unknown substance with conflicting reviews.

 

[jarhead]

Agreed 100% and anything else just flies in the face of logic.

Although, I've seen logs on RC osta at EF (I don't think I can post links to other forums) showing no suppression whatsoever countless of times.

I have seen those too. I personally wouldn't trust anything on EF or its sister site in regards to sarms. There are a few places where it is obvious many of the posters are really the guys selling the stuff. They showed up here with the same type of posts and a few were banned. It's hard to find good info on the stuff. I see the same posts popping on on multiple sites. It seems like the guys that have no results or bad experiences are usually told it's because of their source from what I've seen and to try brand X because it's legit, and you get what you pay for etc. It is really hard to determine what people are really taking, which makes me skeptical of any broad assumption. I've heard that REAL osta would never do this or that but how do you tell who is selling REAL osta? The prices from RC's are all over the place. Pretty frustrating. I think it would be great if celtic labs could chime in on this.

 

[Mystere3]

1)I stated that the purpose of a pct was to restart the hpta. You simply restated that and said I was incorrect.

You said the purpose of pct is to keep your gains. That's not true and you won't keep them all without an anabolic.

2)People are reporting that is more than a little bit suppressive. You are making a huge assumption that if you take enough of a serm it will counteract the suppressive effects of another drug. If this were the case a, a person could recover on dbol. It doesn't work that way.

I posted earlier that we used to run low dose anavar in pct and were able to recover if we took high dose stacked SERMs. Is that optimal? No. However, my point is that MY goal in pct is keeping all gains. That's the most important thing for me, more important than complete recovery. Your body will recover t levels on its own even without pct, so for me, recovering 100% in a month is less important. That being said, I've still had no problems recovering t levels to normal in 6 weeks with osta.

3)Again, you didn't notice because you were on osta and feeling the effects of another drug. Secondly, a test level of 500 is still well into normal. Try dropping from 800 to 200 and discontinuing all other drugs. You also did not recover to previous levels in your examples. You say you felt fine, well most people do when they are still on osta.

You just ignored the most important part of my examples, which is that in the first case, osta didn't suppress my t below normal levels, and in the second and third cases I was able to recover to normal t levels while taking high dose osta IN PCT. I posted test levels two weeks after pct because I was off both serms and osta by that point.

4) Again, you are using a rare example. The average person does not feel good with test values below normal.

That's not necc true. Also, the presence of an anabolic doesn't mean you'll necc feel good. Not all Anabolics are test or act like it. In fact there are only two that are considered to be analogous to test, testosterone and trestolone.

If this stuff works for you, great. I disagree with your entire theory and because it contradicts most of what is known about pct, people's reports on being it lowering their test levels, being on trt, and the importance of bloodwork in favor of recommending a largely unknown substance with conflicting reviews.

That's fine, don't take it then.

 

[ChefJoey]

I understand by bloodwork taking over conversation, but on another note my Epi arrives tomorrow. Starting another log but this is the end of my posting in here.

 

[bubsnt3]

You said the purpose of pct is to keep your gains. That's not true and you won't keep them all without an anabolic.



I posted earlier that we used to run low dose anavar in pct and were able to recover if we took high dose stacked SERMs. Is that optimal? No. However, my point is that MY goal in pct is keeping all gains. That's the most important thing for me, more important than complete recovery. Your body will recover t levels on its own even without pct, so for me, recovering 100% in a month is less important. That being said, I've still had no problems recovering t levels to normal in 6 weeks with osta.



You just ignored the most important part of my examples, which is that in the first case, osta didn't suppress my t below normal levels, and in the second and third cases I was able to recover to normal t levels while taking high dose osta IN PCT. I posted test levels two weeks after pct because I was off both serms and osta by that point.




That's not necc true. Also, the presence of an anabolic doesn't mean you'll necc feel good. Not all Anabolics are test or act like it. In fact there are only two that are considered to be analogous to test, testosterone and trestolone.



That's fine, don't take it then.

You're ridiculous. 800 to 200 is more suppressive than tons of prohormones, and if you knew them and had seen blood work like you have stated, you would know that. The suppression of sarms with their decreased anabolic properties makes them far more useless than MOST steroids or prohormones. Anavar over osta any day based on safety, use, gains, shutdown, anything.
Sarms are being pimped as the new super supplement as a money tactic. Something new, something to try but they are no safer nor do they cause less shutdown at BODYBUILDING DOSES than many roids. The studies have all been on low doses that would have no muscle building properties.
Your argument was logic based, which I respect being a logical person, but people read this and some idiot might actually believe you without knowing anything about anything and do something that will mess up their body, at least in the short-term. Write for the people that don't know anything reading this, not for a point.
If anyone on here takes roids, do a proper PCT without androgens, that is the point of PCT, don't risk running androgens on PCT unless you are doing a bridge or have enough experience that you know what you are doing.

 

[blacklac]

Ostarine is popular because its mild on side effects. Nothing to do with its suppression, except those people who have listened to bad advice and assume it doesn't suppress you.

 

[bubsnt3]

Ostarine is popular because its mild on side effects. Nothing to do with its suppression, except those people who have listened to bad advice and assume it doesn't suppress you.

Taking SARMS for less sides would be ab uninformed decision as well. Unless you are at doses that would be useless IMO

 

[tinytony]

Taking SARMS for less sides would be ab uninformed decision as well. Unless you are at doses that would be useless IMO

The only sides I've ever had from SARMs is that I might dry out a bit as far as I just look harder and sometimes it seems it translates to dryer joints but there have been no sides From Osta as far as anything else for me and I've run it at 40 per day. Now as far as S4 I've had the vision impairment but that goes away as soon as you dose down. I was running it high for competition prep. But that side effect makes driving at night suck.