cel's new td formestane/xtren+some goodies[sponsored]
- Thread starter thebigt
- Start date
What happened?
fueledpassion
Well-known member
lol. I did too. I'm coming to getcha!
With this:
To the reps, I apologize for indirectly and unintentionally opening up a can of worms. The reason I started posting in this thread...
I've been researching about tren/formex/formestane products to learn more about the pros/cons to the cycle, and how to correctly use the products together, as well as perhaps share in experiences with others using same or similar products. All with the intent of learning a more effective way to cycle off this stuff.
thebigt - using tren and td formestane on cycle.
I'm using tren/formex.
While there are biased users here for one or the other, we can't deny that they are very similar in compound and both are designed to accomplish the same things, right? One is oral, one is td. Nuff said. Let the users and their logs help others decide which one is best for their own application.
With all that said, I initially posted up to give thebigt a heads up on what to expect on the tren cycle, regardless of whether or not he was on td formestane. I am about 2 weeks ahead of him, so I figured I might have some decent input to help him. That simple. And since I was also using a very similar formestane product, I figured I would ask questions as well as share results with him, too. Before it is all said and done, I'm gonna come out of this thread with a better understanding of this type of cycle. And you better believe I'm going to follow-up with thebigt on his PCT, since it could very well be the exact same PCT I will use.
What would be astounding is if our PCT results were parallel with one another! This could end up being valuable information for everyone! It's always nice to have a detailed log (thanks to thebigt) of one's results, but even better if there are two different people out there, with two totally different body types, using the same stuff (at least on PCT), and have similar results.
Which brings me to my next question for thebigt: could you tell me more about your PCT plans? I'm interested...
stl123
Active member
I am also interested in your PCT plans!
fueledpassion. You really don't need to apologize to the reps! If they are mad at you for posting here then they are really worse than I could have imagined!
CompEdgeLabs
Board Sponsor
Want me to come get you, or just send you some pizza and women to join you?
Just wanted to let you know that from my perspective no apologies are necessary at all. I have no problem with you posting in this thread. The only reason that I even mentioned you in my replies above were you spoke nicely of Formex, and that was okay, but because STL had a different opinion, he got nailed for his. Just seemed like a bit of a double standard. I just wanted the thread to get back to being informative and educational and keep the drama out of it.
I feel very strongly that our topical Formestane will be superior to Formex, but IBE has every right to be confident in their product as well. Real world results will speak for themselves.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
Want me to come get you, or just send you some pizza and women to join you?
Just wanted to let you know that from my perspective no apologies are necessary at all. I have no problem with you posting in this thread. The only reason that I even mentioned you in my replies above were you spoke nicely of Formex, and that was okay, but because STL had a different opinion, he got nailed for his. Just seemed like a bit of a double standard. I just wanted the thread to get back to being informative and educational and keep the drama out of it.
I feel very strongly that our topical Formestane will be superior to Formex, but IBE has every right to be confident in their product as well. Real world results will speak for themselves.
Understood. I really dont care which one does better, as long as they both do what they advertise. Besides, I have the money for both products, and between the two, I feel confident that I will find the results I'm looking for!
thebigt
Legend
hey, just keep posting your results. i welcome your enthusiasm and insights. formestane is a great compound, try them both and let us know.
thebigt
Legend
i got someone to cover me from 7-11 tonight, working my regular shift from 11-7 tonight and going in for 4 hours tomorrow night 7-11pm. i need te time off, fatigue had really set in and starting to get lethargic from lack of sleep and too many damn hours at work-brain and body were fried. ate extra today so will see what weight looks like. still doing 4 caps a day.
thebigt
Legend
eating extra paid off, weight was up 4 pounds. i am really liking this cycle, the td formestane is keeping estrogen sides at bay and bp is up only slightly. libido is still going, no shedding and strength/recomp are kicking in. i am at 4 caps xtren ed and 2 pumps of td formestane 2xday. may go to 5 caps on week 5. btw-i noticed a zit on end of my nose last night after showering before work, i haven't seen one of those in a while,lol. forgot to mention my wife said i have some bacne, these are the only real sides i haven't liked.
thebigt
Legend
hahaha. i feel like i am going through puberty again, now if i only had the libido and energy i had at 17. GOD, that was a long time ago ,lol.
thebigt
Legend
ok, starting week 4 and xtren is hitting 3rd gear. went to chiropractor, cut grass and went to gym today. i haven't felt this strong in a long, long time. all my lifts went up in weight and reps. i feel strong as hell. drank me a golden gains shake after working out and felt full and swole. made it home without stopping at krispy kreme's. i am at 4 caps on 4th week and feel great. i thought tren made libido tank? so far i admit libido is down some, but far from tanked. i am thinking to go to 5 weeks and bump up to 5 caps in 5th week. or stay at 4 caps and go 6 weeks.
Mars1107
Guest
thebigt
Legend
not yet....and yes i never ran a tren before, but since td formestane is back i went for it, td formestane is playing a part in my not being shutdown- i would bet on it.
Theipodpeople
Member
And on the 5 pills a day, from what I've read people usually run into 19-Nor problems by going over 6-weeks or going over 120mgs a day...but hey if you have faith in the td formestane by all means it would interesting to find out.
thebigt
Legend
i agree, it was easy to get carried away since i haven't really had any sides yet. no reason to get stupid about it though.:thanks:
thebigt
Legend
i have decided to cut cut the cycle off at 5 weeks, but if i still feel good going into week 5 i am still planning to go to 5 caps=150mg on week 5. i admit to feeling greedy and wanting more- but if sides get bad i am not going to risk my health for extras gains. btw so far my weight has stabilized at 222, that's a solid gain of 5 pounds. usually on most of my cycles week 4 is where most of my weight gain comes, so we will see. oh yeah, no shedding, libido is down but not out, bp is up about 5 points-no concern, no bloating, and strength has continued to go up-not the huge increase some guys seem to get from tren, but more of a week to week increase-the last 2 weeks have seen a 10 pound increase in major lifts and ive added a full 10 pounds on my preacher curls and biceps curls, very happy about that as my arms are definitely BIGGER.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
Thats good news! My weight stabilized to about 145, which means a solid 10lbs for me. I'm coming off this week, tho. :frustrate Gonna get my Clomid and taper the Formex & SERM together. We'll see.
As for my gains, I saw significant weight & strength gains along with greatly increased definition in the shoulders, arms, abs, & back. I'm not sure how much I can lift as far as bench goes at this point due to joint failure in the left shoulder/elbow. Two weeks ago I did 245lbs on bench. I suspect if my joints didn't crap out I could have seen 255+lbs. I'll have to wait for another day I suppose. :dunno: Dead lifts = 40+lbs ?? Who knows. Shooting for 3 plates. I'll find out soon. 19 Nor is good stuff. Formex, although not td formestane, has removed any estro related sides associated on this cycle for me.
Sides for the little guy:
-Low libido (although when I got on 50mg Formex + a drop to 60mg Tren I saw some comeback, although not much.)
-Higher BP
-Some irritation in nips, but Formex has effectively countered that.
-People joking about me being juiced (little did they know it's the very closest thing to it!)
I figure one more cycle of this stuff down the road and I'll be ready to rip the SLP state records to pieces! Good luck w/ PCT thebigt.
thebigt
Legend
thanks FP, that's a great post. if i were looking for info about a tren cycle, you have covered all the bases. nice job. btw big numbers for a 'little guy', lol.:thumbsup::beerchug:
thebigt
Legend
damn, week 4 and going to 4 caps has really kicked this in. been doing lifts in my basement before work and getting much stronger-up 15 pounds on bench. it seems that since i went to 4 caps i am getting a pump from lifting almost anything at work, just the most simple thing and i feel hot in muscles and tight-very cool. not really aggressive, but just real confident. xtren is really starting to impress me now. btw was up another 2 pounds, total of 7 so far. this is great, a 12 hour shift flew by- i actually enjoyed it some. definitely stronger and endurance is way up. still no real sides to report, and still planning to go to 5 caps next week. week 4 is where it usually happens for me, and it seems this cycle is no exception.
thebigt
Legend
yup, my weight went as high as 7 pounds first 3 weeks but leveled out at a solid 5. and yes my dosing was 3 caps weeks 1-3, and have upped it to 4 for week4. am going to go to 5 caps for week 5, and then start pct. i am also going to bump up the td formestane to 3 pumps 2xday starting tomorrow. have gained 2 more pounds this week for a total of 7 solid pounds so far. typically week 4 is where i see most weight gain on cycle, so the next 2 weeks should be interesting.
celc5
Well-known member
Ok we're on the same page. I was just thinking that if 4 caps is still productive after 7 to 10 days at that dosage, it might not be necessary to go to 5. Seriously 2 pounds in just a few days is no joke :head:
Not to be critical and your plan is completely reasonable. I'm just saying to stay open minded is all
Not to be critical and your plan is completely reasonable. I'm just saying to stay open minded is all
thebigt
Legend
Ok we're on the same page. I was just thinking that if 4 caps is still productive after 7 to 10 days at that dosage, it might not be necessary to go to 5. Seriously 2 pounds in just a few days is no joke :head:
Not to be critical and your plan is completely reasonable. I'm just saying to stay open minded is all
i was off over the weekend and don't go in early sunday night, so last night was my first 12 hour shift of the week. very hard to gain weight when working 12's, so i expect my weight may be back down again when i weigh in tonight. it's amazing i have gained what i have since my cals are so restricted at work. 3 syntha-6 shakes and 2 scoops of golden gains is my entire diet for the entire 12 hours, and i expend a ton of cals. typically during summer months it is nothing to weigh up to 10 pounds less after a 12 hour shift.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
So is your PCT only td formestane or what? Perhaps some Clomid or Test booster of some type? I understand your test levels didn't tank like mine, and I can confidently say it is probably because you pre-loaded with td form and continued its use throughout. I'll try that next time! Anyway, I'm more interested in how your gonna go about leveling out your estrogen levels. Are you going to taper the td form alone? J/W..I've heard so many opinions on how to do this, and I was just going to taper my formestane off using Clomid to help with libido and what not.
thebigt
Legend
ive got some nolvaclomid combo standing by, but don't plan to use it. my pct will be inhibit-e/pct assst/powerful/suppress-c. and since i have well over half a bottle of td formestane left, i will continue to use the first 2 weeks of pct when inhibit-e doses will be high to help with libido.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
I'm unfamiliar with some of these supplements. I'll have to check them out.
Anyways, I got up 295lbs on dead-lift last night. Could have done more but couldn't hold on to the weight. I have to learn how to use these straps I just got. I feel like 305-310lbs is doable. Wasn't too hard to accomplish the 295 as far as my legs/back felt. But even then, that's +50lbs since I started the Tren cycle. Thats awesome.
thebigt
Legend
i agree that is awesome...i haven't been able or willing to go heavy on dead's or squats since my knee surgery, but all my lifts have gone up. even added 10 pounds to preacher curls which had been stagnant for a looong time. i don't max out in my basement gym-don't have a spotter, but was able to do 4 reps of 300 lb's. was only using 275 before. can't wait to see what next week will be like.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
Ok, I can see a need for PCT assist, but isnt formestane already an AI? I'm looking at inhibit-e, which reduces estrogen levels & optimized test production..
I'm confused I guess. I thought maybe Form & PCT assist would be sufficient for PCT when it comes to the estrogen/test control. Wouldn't taking inhibit-e & formestane at the same time kill your estrogen? My thoughts were to gradually let estrogen come back into play. I would have thought tapering the form then work into the PCT assist, which controls the estro but doesnt inhibit it altogether.
I would have thought this would have been sufficient..
Form for 1st two weeks tapering down to lose doses, then go into PCT assist for another 2 weeks, gradually tapering that.
And take the powerful/suppress-c throughout the whole PCT to maintain gains. Care to shed some light?
This is what I'd like to try:
PCT schedule
week 1 : Clomid, Formex 50mg/day, Cycle Support, HydroTest (Double Dose), ZMA
week 2 : Clomid, Formex 25mg/day, Cycle Support, HydroTest (Normal Dose), ZMA
week 3 : Clomid, PCT Assist, Cycle Support, Suppress-c, ZMA
week 4 : Clomid, PCT Assist, Cycle Support, Suppress-c, ZMA
Any opinions? Sry for long post + hijack, thebigt.
celc5
Well-known member
Fueled,
You're scrambling like 3 or 4 different pct philosophies bro-gellin :laugh:
If you're using a serm, a slow introduction of an AI should suffice as the serm tapers off. This should theoretically be good for gyno control if you're using nolva-esque serms. And if you're using Clomid, no need for the AI to instigate hpta production. The ai is just an estrogen safety net for when you taper the serm.
If you're not using a serm, then res and I3C can help with estrogen control while your AI becomes the PRIMARY source of estrogen control. The AI is also the primary test booster, so in this scenario, most people want to hit it real hard with the AI right away. Then taper.
So BigT is using a bit form alongside his ATD and res/i3c combo with pct assist. the form + atd initially is strong estrogen control but with a secondary goal of stimulating the hpta. When he drops the form, it's the same as tapering estrogen control.
You're scrambling like 3 or 4 different pct philosophies bro-gellin :laugh:
If you're using a serm, a slow introduction of an AI should suffice as the serm tapers off. This should theoretically be good for gyno control if you're using nolva-esque serms. And if you're using Clomid, no need for the AI to instigate hpta production. The ai is just an estrogen safety net for when you taper the serm.
If you're not using a serm, then res and I3C can help with estrogen control while your AI becomes the PRIMARY source of estrogen control. The AI is also the primary test booster, so in this scenario, most people want to hit it real hard with the AI right away. Then taper.
So BigT is using a bit form alongside his ATD and res/i3c combo with pct assist. the form + atd initially is strong estrogen control but with a secondary goal of stimulating the hpta. When he drops the form, it's the same as tapering estrogen control.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
ah, I see. Thank you, sir.
Well, Clomid is drug of choice for me. So Clomid and no AI. I'll keep the test boosters on hand and of course cycle support and ZMA. It all really depends on just how hard I have shutdown..hopefully the Clomid helps.
And as for the highlight bold section of your comment..maybe I'm shooting for a hybrid PCT, lol. But really, I thought Formex was to be used alongside with SERM's for best PCT results, not just after the SERM. Maybe someone will expand on this a little bit. Thanks!
thebigt
Legend
celc is on the same page, when i start atd at 50mg i will start tapering off the form. btw another reason for keeping low dose formestane around is atd at 50mg and above can wreck libido-since the form has kept libido alive on tren hopefully it will do the same with the atd. getting ahead of myself am still looking forward to next week and going to 150mg ed.
celc5
Well-known member
Fueled,
You probably could run your Formex as directed starting either day 1 of pct alongside your clomid OR start it around day 7 or 14 as your clomid tapers off. IMO, I'd run clomid high enough at the beginning to get the boys size back and libido back. If libido and testicular mass are ok, I'd choose a more aggressive AI and just save the clomid.
Anyway with the clomid, I wouldn't be afraid to taper it quickly before vision and mood gets too bad, especially if you're running a low dose AI like Formex at some point.
BigT,
I figured that's why you didn't want to run 3 caps ATD. I get shaky even on 2 caps, but enhancement with 1. Go figure :shrug:
You probably could run your Formex as directed starting either day 1 of pct alongside your clomid OR start it around day 7 or 14 as your clomid tapers off. IMO, I'd run clomid high enough at the beginning to get the boys size back and libido back. If libido and testicular mass are ok, I'd choose a more aggressive AI and just save the clomid.
Anyway with the clomid, I wouldn't be afraid to taper it quickly before vision and mood gets too bad, especially if you're running a low dose AI like Formex at some point.
BigT,
I figured that's why you didn't want to run 3 caps ATD. I get shaky even on 2 caps, but enhancement with 1. Go figure :shrug:
thebigt
Legend
sometimes more is not better. but i am still going with 5 caps next week, lol.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
What do you think, two weeks of Clomid and maybe start taking Form mid-week of 2nd week? Then just taper it down I suppose..?
thebigt
Legend
been hit with a terrible case of lethargy this weekend. plus a drop in libido-the fire is just a flicker. i am starting the 5 caps tonight before work, but may not make it through the entire week. if sides get rough i will start pct-really enjoyed this cycle and am not interested in messing my gains up by being greedy. according to all ive read strength should continue to go up in pct and the leaning out recomp effects should really kick in. very excited to try the suppress-c and pct assist. as of now i am up 7 solid pounds which is well within range of what my goal was.
thebigt
Legend
lethargy wasn't that bad, took some focus xt before work and that helped a lot. had bp checked by nurse at work this morning still only a few points up from normal. libido is down, am going to add an extra pump of formestane tonight. strength continues to climb-up another 5 pounds on most lifts, and weighed in at up 7 pounds-with a clean diet, not looking to bulk.
celc5
Well-known member
the only cycle that I was lethargic with was Havoc. It was REAL bad ON cycle but it started right away for me, within about 5 days or a week. The lethargy got better within the first few days of pct. I'd say it took about 2-3 weeks to get all the way back to normal energy wise... but remember to consider that I bridged into SD at the end, which probably made recovery more difficult than it was worth.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
Yeah, I'm completely off the Tren now and I'm already telling a difference in lethargy. It is going away after day 2 off cycle. Also noticed libido is making a fighting comeback as well. TRS should really help out in this department when it comes in next week.
In fact, I'm really getting "ripped" during workouts now far more than I did when on cycle. It's a night vs. day difference. Weight is still lingering around +10lbs for me. Actually felt like my weight might have gone up a little bit. Appetite is better for me as well.
In fact, I'm really getting "ripped" during workouts now far more than I did when on cycle. It's a night vs. day difference. Weight is still lingering around +10lbs for me. Actually felt like my weight might have gone up a little bit. Appetite is better for me as well.
thebigt
Legend
never ran havoc, but i know i don't respond very well to epi. didn't really get much from it last time i ran it. as for the sd-well you know my thoughts on that...thanks for stopping by , celc.
thebigt
Legend
i like the sound of that...today is going to be my last day of cycle, just too hard to work 12's with the lethargy. really good to hear you are recovering so well in pct, keep me posted.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
I hit the gym last night. Stayed in there for 2 hours! Finally got up 315 on dead-lift. (I finally figured out how to correctly use my straps). This was with no belt. I might've seen 325 w/ a belt. :dunno: So it's safe to say the Tren power is still lingering around for me!
TRS is coming in next week. We'll see how that goes during PCT.
thebigt
Legend
it doesn't take much to upset the applecart when working 12 hour shifts in a hot factory. was just plain to tired to get out of bed and face another 12 hour shift after 4 hours of sleep. lethargy didn't set in hard till i went to 5 caps on week 5.
thebigt
Legend
glad to see you are recovering nicely, i am still feeling stronger after starting pct. i am also getting some of my get up and go back. btw i gained another pound-after starting pct??? i am enjoying the effects of xtren, but not missing the lethargy, lol.
thebigt
Legend
pct is going nicely. libido is very much making a comeback, and lethargy is going away. strength is still up and mood is good. pct assist seems to be having an impact already, and suppress-c brought cort levels down so much i had pain in my knee. will try 2 pumps 1 time eod for a week or so.