agreed on the expectations, if people think nh's are going to ahve the same effects as hormones they are wrong, however, if they think they might be able to cause small (especially relative to hormones) change in body and performance then they are correct. No herbal test booster is going to feel like taking 500 mgs of cyp a week, no creatine/bcaa/ba product is going to feel like taking 50 mgs of dbol per day and no ecdy product is going to feel like that either, however, they can still be effective, just on a smaller scale. Also, they do not cover for poor training, diet, and rest the way hormones do. If you have those 3 really dialed in, then nha's can have a positive effect, also as long as the product is quality, which with cel, there is no worry there.