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can i bulk and lower bf% simultaneously???

ShockCollar

ShockCollar

New member
Ive researched, read, and memorized countless articles floating around the internet about diet. I aim to add mass, while minimizing body fat. I realize bulking, then cutting, is an ideal process, but I want to do both. I think its possible for me because I have little muscle mass, and a modest amount of fat. I am 21 years old, 5'11", and weigh 175 lbs. Im somewhat of a lanky guy, with some flab around the chest and lower abdominals. I consider myself an ectomorph. My previous diet consisted of 3-4 meals a day of foods high in saturated fat and high GI carbs, like wendy's baconator and burgerking whoppers. I drank soda and heavy beer, and the only exercise I got was a .35 mile walk to the jobsite and back. Considering all of that, I still weighed 175, and remained pretty skinny. I want to pack on some heat, and now I'm here, looking to you guys for help.

I figure my diet will be 3,000 cals on w/o days and 2400 on non w/o days.

45% from complex carbs, 40% from protein and 15% from good fats, spread into 6 meals a day. (averages to 57g carbs, 50g protein, 9g fat per meal on w/o days).

Could this potentially aid me in gaining lean mass, while burning the fat I currently have? I am also taking MassFXv3, aPCT, 6bromo, whey, and creatine. I workout strenuously 5 days a week, with 1 day restricted to cardio. Can I expect results? Should I change anything?

....seems like a lot of calories for adding mass, but minimizing fat...right?
 
not possible to bulk/cut at the same time. not no way not no how.

this isnt my opinion, its straight fact.
 
Ricky5145 said:
not possible to bulk/cut at the same time. not no way not no how.

this isnt my opinion, its straight fact.
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Well


He can experience newby gains, as well as shocking his body from this new diet....so actually off the bat the first few months he probably will gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. Will he be a shredded beast? No probably not.


To the OP, You're gonna wanna play with your macros a little bit. I would go with a 40/40/20 split instead (Carbs/Protein/Fat). Also taper off your carbs so that your last 2 meals only have carbs coming from fibrous veggies, and the remainder is protein and fat.
 
well

Newbie gains are nice while your a newb but even then they arent significant. Or significant enough to say you Bulk/cut at the same time. maybe enough to say you "started to not look like a fat ass" or "started to look like you were in shape" but not enough to say " i bulked up and cut up at the same time!"

But in the grand accordance of those experience gents out there it is impossible to bulk/cut at the same time. It is extremely hard just to keep muscle on while cutting.

just not going to happen.
 
AnabolicJames said:
Building muscle and burning fat are two biologically different processes, independent of one another.
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to a point, both rely on caloric intake to a degree. like i said, despite them being two different processes it is still impossible to bulk cut at the same time.

when you are loosing weight your body is in a catabolic mode, meaning its trying to get rid of things. your muscles require WORK from you body (like a frunace, they need wood [cals]), fat does not. The first thing your body tries to get rid of is extra muscle FIRST because extra muscle = extra work for your body to preform. its not going to kick the fat and build the muscle. it just simply doesnt work that way.

even when not cutting your body still doesnt want that extra muscle thats why there are such things as MAINTANANCE calories.

like i said, not no way not no how
 
from personal experience, yes you can. just do a very clean bulk, mass gaining workout routine, do abs and most important jump roping. by doing this i dropped about 5 pounds of fat but my strength increased and i looked alot harder and gained a NET gain of 2 pounds. i had it all measured. so yes, u can do it, but its very hard.
 
nope stll cant, i bet you got measure with the skin fold test? they can be off by as much as 5%.

a gain of like 1 pound or two may be possible. BUT who considers a two pound gain max to be a BULK. not me.
 
What about recomping? Isnt that essentially dropping fat and adding mass? Just asking, I am trying to learn. :D
 
i hate that word so much. it really gets all my nerves when someone says they are going to "recomp"

alot of people gain strength when cutting which leads them to believe their "addin mass" which is just so much bull.

i went and got tested in water once every two weeks while i was cutting. My strength sky rocketed and i was lifting more then when i was at my heaviest. BUT out of my 30 pound loss, i also lost 4 pounds off my LBM despite my strength increasing.

people think they do all kinds of crazy things, nope not happening.
 
Ricky5145 said:
i hate that word so much. it really gets all my nerves when someone says they are going to "recomp"

alot of people gain strength when cutting which leads them to believe their "addin mass" which is just so much bull.

i went and got tested in water once every two weeks while i was cutting. My strength sky rocketed and i was lifting more then when i was at my heaviest. BUT out of my 30 pound loss, i also lost 4 pounds off my LBM despite my strength increasing.

people think they do all kinds of crazy things, nope not happening.
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LOL Well I had to ask, because I do see that on here a lot. Now I will say, I find it quite hard to maintain strength on a cut, and while it is possible, I just have to train hard and stick to working out earlier when I have more energy. I found it hard to believe that you can keep all of your LBM, but you know 4 lbs to shed 30 is not a big sacrifice. If the strength stayed the same or went up, it would probably be easier to get that 4 lbs back. JMO
 
SouthernCharm said:
LOL Well I had to ask, because I do see that on here a lot. Now I will say, I find it quite hard to maintain strength on a cut, and while it is possible, I just have to train hard and stick to working out earlier when I have more energy. I found it hard to believe that you can keep all of your LBM, but you know 4 lbs to shed 30 is not a big sacrifice. If the strength stayed the same or went up, it would probably be easier to get that 4 lbs back. JMO
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i think you got my comment wrong. im not saying my 4 pounds was i big sacrifice. i didnt care cus i thought i was going to loose more than that. 4 pounds is nothing. but what my point was, is that you cant add mass while cutting like that. its just not possible, i see people on here claiming to and it just gets all my nerves. i probablly should just stop stating reason and lets these monkeys believe what they want.
 
Ricky5145 said:
i think you got my comment wrong. im not saying my 4 pounds was i big sacrifice. i didnt care cus i thought i was going to loose more than that. 4 pounds is nothing. but what my point was, is that you cant add mass while cutting like that. its just not possible, i see people on here claiming to and it just gets all my nerves. i probablly should just stop stating reason and lets these monkeys believe what they want.
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Im sorry If i stated my response wrong. I didnt think you said it was a sacrifice, I was simply stating that IMO that is not a sacrifice, I would be content with going on a bulk and a cut and seeing similar numbers. I do agree that both of these are different processes, but you seemed like a good person to ask about the so called "recomp". Thanks for taking the time to reply. And as far as stating your reason, why stop. People eventually do as they please in the end, but I am here to learn so I am all about taking information and opinions from all sides.
 
If you are saying that you cannot gain muscle while losing fat then you are wrong because I have gone from 280 to 210 and gained muscle mass over the past 3 years and have never done a bulk cycle then went on a cut cylce.........I eat fairly clean and work hard. If are saying something different from what I think then I apologize for this post....................but you can gain muscle while losing fat because I have done it.
 
triton185 said:
but you can gain muscle while losing fat because I have done it.
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see, exactly what i just said.......

im sure over three years your body went through alot of changes and you sure enough did put on muscle but not in the way its being dicussed here. however, props on your work.

Im talking about CUT vs BULK cycles. a 3 year cut isnt a CUT cycle. 80 pounds over three years is different than say 20-40 pounds in 12 weeks. they cant be compared.
 
Point taken......I see you what you are saying and would agree with you that you cannot drop that kind of weight while putting on muscle......night and day
 
SouthernCharm said:
Im sorry If i stated my response wrong. I didnt think you said it was a sacrifice, I was simply stating that IMO that is not a sacrifice, I would be content with going on a bulk and a cut and seeing similar numbers. I do agree that both of these are different processes, but you seemed like a good person to ask about the so called "recomp". Thanks for taking the time to reply. And as far as stating your reason, why stop. People eventually do as they please in the end, but I am here to learn so I am all about taking information and opinions from all sides.
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you were prob fine in your response. Im just a little on edge today. and about the "recomp" it just simply doesnt exist. its just some word thrown out there by a guy who wanted to loose weight and attain a body that looked like he actually did something, otherwise known as just cutting up. BUT, people took that word to a whole new level and just throw it out there all the time. Mostly becuase people on these forums arent bodybuilders, dont look like bodybuilders, and say "recomp" so they can act like there on there way to
 
Ricky5145 said:
nope stll cant, i bet you got measure with the skin fold test? they can be off by as much as 5%.

a gain of like 1 pound or two may be possible. BUT who considers a two pound gain max to be a BULK. not me.
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nah bro, it was over a period of 3 weeks. not a whole bulking season. my bf is lower and i weigh more. my abs are even visible now. i also think genetics is involved in this as well. i dunno. i know i gained a net gain of 2 pounds in 3 weeks, lost a few pounds of fat but my strength didnt go down, i looked bigger and my abs were visible. so i gained 2 pounds and got my abs to be more defined. i accomplished what i wanted.
 
Is it possible to recomp? Yes, but it is a very, very difficult process that takes months. 2 years ago, I was able to add 7 lbs of muscle while losing 4 lbs of fat. This took about 3 months and my measurements were based upon 7-point skinfolds taken every 2 weeks.
 
It is possible if you are talking about a few pounds but I think what is being discussed is someone dropping 20 30 40 pounds in a 3 month cutting cycle.

Just to be clear.........we are talking about a someone who is not taking AAS during this period because that is very different.
 
u simply cant gain weight without taking in more cals than u use think about it

if u add muscle without gaining fat almost impossible but not. then essentially u r lowering bf% because it is the same amount of fat on a bigger body

bottom line work ur ass off burn cals working out and eat like a beast literally lots of meat eggs and milk
 
There is one thing I dont understand. You guys claim bulking and cutting are "night and day," and I believe you all because Ive read the research, too. What I dont understand is that style of thinking applies to an already conditioned person, right?

For instance, I ate fast food for every meal, in major quantities, at strange times. Like Id eat fast food at 3pm (when I woke up), again at 8pm, and again at 2-3am (right before I went to bed). I think eating like that caused my insulin levels to trigger a "fat storage" response. Also, I was consuming all those fats and carbs, with little protein and literally no physical activity. All I would drink was bud heavy, coke, and I can down a dr pepper faster that any man alive, haha, but seriously. So basically, I treated my body like **** and needed to re-do my entire lifestyle.

Now, I eat about the same amount of calories (2800-3200), but those calories come from chicken breasts, fish, lean red meat. Also, the sugary-starchy carbs have been replaced with complex carbs, tapering from a grain source in the am to a vegetable source in the pm. My fats are good fats, I'm also taking protein (whey concentrate, a mixed protein, and casein for night), 14g creatine monohydrate, a multi, and fish oil at 3 a day. I work out 4 days a week, rotating muscle groups, at significant intensity. Outside of the four days I lift, I run (HIIT) 2 days a week, and rest completely for one day. Oh yeah, my ratios are 45/40/15 (carbs/protein/fats).

Can anyone explain why a person who made a diet change like this not burn fat and build at the same time? I doesnt make sense to me.
 
This discussion is all over the place. I thought you were talking about going on a cut cycle of a couple of months where you are at large calorie deficit and are trying to lose like 3 pounds a week. If you are talking about a lifestyle change and eating clean over a period of a year or whatever then yes you can lose fat and gain muscle......this is not a cut cycle. I would consider a cut cycle a period of time where you are at a large caloric deficit and it is short term in nature.
 
Your best bet would be to bulk. At 175 lbs you sound kind of lanky so consuming 335g of carbs a day would put you in the 45% at 3000 cal. Days off or cardio days you may want to drop it down some. Also not eating heavy carbs (starchs) after a certain time like 6 P.M may help you minimize fat gain. Lift heavy to build muscle because thats the quickest way to burn fat.
 
It's very hard to put a firm 'rule' on whether its possible to simultaneously lose fat and gain weight at the same time, because both process's are regulated by a complex feedback system which involves a number of hormones, intracellular process's and CNS control. Also, while it may be unlikely for the body to 'burn fat' and 'build muscle' at the exact same moment, the body can move from state to state as needed, therefore it may be possible to couple the two states through dietary and training manipulation.

The bottom line is, in such a complex process which is regulated by autonomic nerves, hormones, local paracrines, and intracellular processes, everyone will be different. The best option is always to experiment and try to keep an accurate as possible record of body changes to see how your body responds to various training/diet methods.
 
Theoretically yes, since the % can stay the same, but you are still gaining fat.

If you gain muscle at a faster rate than the fat, your % of bf can actually stay the same or even lower, since total body weight is going up. That doesn't mean you are losing fat.
 
Nobody really answered this...........but are we talking about natural or on steroids? Because those are 2 totally different conversations.
 
chocolatemilk said:
Not legal anymore I believe since January..God I wish I knew beforehand they were going to be illegal so I could stack up on them..Price has probably doubled now.. at least in AZ
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Yeah, if you can still find them that is... They had a sale before the ban but i was dead broke anyways.

Can't even find Epistane nowadays, let alone the other stuff, you can only get in auctions and through forums from people who did stock up because the manufacturers aren't making them anymore...(or maybe they have some they didn't manage to sell :O) but you'd have to talk to a rep personally and good luck getting one to talk, because u could be anybody.
 
quigley said:
Also, while it may be unlikely for the body to 'burn fat' and 'build muscle' at the exact same moment, the body can move from state to state as needed, therefore it may be possible to couple the two states through dietary and training manipulation.
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That is exactly right. Metabolically, and biologically, they are different processes. It also depends on what sort of caloric deficit you are using to cut fat. For example, if your "maintenance" intake is 3,400 calories, and you cut 200-300 a day, you will lose fat but it is not enough of a deficit to affect muscle growth in a negative way. Your caloric maintenance level changes day to day also, depending on activity level, etc. Far too much emphasis is put on calories as a determining factor in gaining lean mass. A supposed "hard gainer" would have a difficult time in a fat gaining contest, but the process of muscle growth is entirely different than fat gain. Muscle growth occurs when a muscle is overloaded with more "work" than it has the current capacity to handle combined with adequate recuperation, and overcompensation. The process itself is too slow to be affected by a minor calorie deficit over the long term. Now, yes, if you're cutting calories to 1,500 a day, most likely any muscle overcompensation is probably going to occur using other tissue broken down into glucose and amino acids. The net gain then would be nothing, and more likely a net loss. The point is that the overcompensation is still going to happen if allowed enough time to heal. If you cut your foot open, regardless of whether you're losing weight or not, the tissue is still going to heal and scar as usual. Maybe it will take longer, or maybe not, but my point is that a wound doesn't stay open and bleeding just because you're dieting to lose weight.

On the other hand, if you're not overloading the muscles and allowing them sufficient time to recuperate, and overcompensate.... You will not grow. Period. I don't care how many calories you eat.
 
AnabolicJames said:
Speaking of Chimps, I thought I read somewhere that a chimp could deadlift stupid amounts of weight relative to its own bodyweight...
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That's true, they are ridiculously strong compared to humans. To be honest, every animal is way more powerful for it's weight compared to humans. We for some reason are very weak compared to most if not all of the animal kingdom pound for pound.

HereToStudy said:
There are still many powerful prohormone options available, check out primordialperformance for example.
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I checked them and didn't recognize any of the good'ol pro-hormone names I'm familiar with...
 
chocolatemilk said:
That's true, they are ridiculously strong compared to humans. To be honest, every animal is way more powerful for it's weight compared to humans. We for some reason are very weak compared to most if not all of the animal kingdom pound for pound.



I checked them and didn't recognize any of the good'ol pro-hormone names I'm familiar with...
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I don't think they are prohormones.....more like test boosters.
 
The discontinued Superdrol, but did manufacture a 1200 bottle run of it (I grabbed one :D)

Turinabol is Hdrol with liquavade technology.
Androhard is Androsterone
Formestane is, well, Formestane (4-hydroxyandrostene-3, 17-dione)
1-T contains 1-Androsterone (Which directly converts to Test), DHEA, and Pregnenolone
Dermacrine contains DHEA as well.

Superdrol is still available as Beastdrol (Im not sure who manufactures it).
 
HereToStudy said:
The discontinued Superdrol, but did manufacture a 1200 bottle run of it (I grabbed one :D)

Turinabol is Hdrol with liquavade technology.
Androhard is Androsterone
Formestane is, well, Formestane (4-hydroxyandrostene-3, 17-dione)
1-T contains 1-Androsterone (Which directly converts to Test), DHEA, and Pregnenolone
Dermacrine contains DHEA as well.

Superdrol is still available as Beastdrol (Im not sure who manufactures it).
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Got ya, thanks for the info HTS.

On the case of chimps being stronger, it is thought that we sacrifice the strength chimps have for our fine motor movements such as threading a needle while chimps have an "all or nothing" nervous system muscle use.

On bulking and cutting, would doing cardio while on a bulking diet and training achieve this bulking and cutting at the same time?
 
Yes, thanks HTS.

LOL.....the chimp stuff is making me laugh. My brother was telling me one time about seeing some video about how strong Orangutans are....lol.....it was crazy how much stronger they are than humans.

Freakin' Chimps scare me now! You guys see the video of the woman who basically got her face chewed off by that Chimp!! Gah!
 
chocolatemilk said:
On bulking and cutting, would doing cardio while on a bulking diet and training achieve this bulking and cutting at the same time?
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Wouldn't make sense.... it is easier to cut 500 or 700 calories from food, than it is to burn that much... faster too. Also, too much aerobic activity interferes with recuperation.
 
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