Building Back Up

[Dustin07]

put another way in terms of adaptation, when I was doing a lot of pull-ups 100 in a wod was pretty normal and I knew that anything at 60+ was going to make my hands bleed. pullups were a daily occurrence with at least 30 in every warm-up, daily. My bench was 250, my squat like 300, my deadlift maybe 405. but now I'm much stronger and my pull-up game is much weaker, I haven't trained it. being able to do pull-ups for me is more like being able to run a decent 1 mile time. a few weeks of conditionining and they can be done regularly in decent volume IMO. but right now my pull-ups are so untrained I have to get my shoulders back into good shape for it. and I admit, I honestly enjoy higher volume kipping/butterfly pull-ups more because I get that runners high from jamming out higher volume in a HIIT-style workout, but its crazy hard on the hands and shoulders.

 

[GreenMachineX]

barbell work is more taxing than bodyweight work for a lot of reasons but another thought I had is how many total warm up sets does it take for you to get to 225?



I mean jumping on a pull-up bar for 3 amrap sets right now might be like a set of 8, 7, 7 or 8, 6, 5 or something like that right? like this week I see 19 reps:



so thats 19 reps at bodyweight vs the 25 reps of bench you did at OVER bodyweight using a barbell requiring more stability and muscular recruitement that also had I'm guessing quite a few warm-up reps on the way there.

I think that sorta jives with what Hyde said about adaptation as well. But todays monday, like if you got on the pull-up bar and did 5 pullups today and tomorrow did 6, and the next day 7 etc until you got up to 100 a day (even if it was 10 sets of 10 by then, idc) I'm guessing your adaptation would be such that your cns never notices and your pull-ups continue to increase. guys who like to do abs might be sore on day one of doing 25 and then after a couple months they're additively throwing down 1000 situps a night like girls walking around taking sips from their stanley cups.

Well, maybe my pull-ups need more warming up too…

 

[Dustin07]

honestly mine do to these days lol. a little lat pull down work seems to help me get the shoulders lubricated as long as I don't go so heavy I'm trashed. but right now in this cold weather my hands are so beat up thats half the battle !

 

[Hyde]

Well, maybe my pull-ups need more warming up too…

In the 5th Set book, Swede Burns says always get a couple easy progressive sets of 12 in on Lat Pulldowns (with either a machine or band choked to top of rack while kneeling) before beginning real pull-ups. That has always served me very well as far as time/energy invested vs improvement in feeling of safety.

 

[GreenMachineX]

In the 5th Set book, Swede Burns says always get a couple easy progressive sets of 12 in on Lat Pulldowns (with either a machine or band choked to top of rack while kneeling) before beginning real pull-ups. That has always served me very well as far as time/energy invested vs improvement in feeling of safety.

Gotcha, I’ve done 1 warmup at most before

I’ll try this.

 

[Dustin07]

Gotcha, I’ve done 1 warmup at most before

I’ll try this.

LOL I've done both approaches. I've done crazy overcomplicated warm-ups that yield amazing results but the time demand is high. When we were training with Olympians in USAW they had studies indicating that the injury risk of not warming up prior to efforts was basically no less than warming up, so typically I got into a routine of "doing the movement" as my warm up. like benching 2 x 10 x 95 then working my way up.

But again, my results have been better when I take the time to warm up more. even hitting adductor machine and leg press for medium effort work the past few months has yielded higher top end results on the squats.

 

[GreenMachineX]

LOL I've done both approaches. I've done crazy overcomplicated warm-ups that yield amazing results but the time demand is high. When we were training with Olympians in USAW they had studies indicating that the injury risk of not warming up prior to efforts was basically no less than warming up, so typically I got into a routine of "doing the movement" as my warm up. like benching 2 x 10 x 95 then working my way up.

But again, my results have been better when I take the time to warm up more. even hitting adductor machine and leg press for medium effort work the past few months has yielded higher top end results on the squats.

I meant only with regard to pull-ups. I do 10 minute incline walk before every workout, and multiple sets of warmups for all big lift except pull-ups for some unknown reason

For bench 5x5, my warm up would:
Bar x 10
95 x 5
135 x 5
185 x 3
205 x 2
Work sets.

That’s how it goes for all free weight compounds (machine compounds a bit less). Single joint exercises I don’t do any warm ups. So, maybe I need more warm ups for pull ups like I do for bench.

 

[Hyde]

Something Mike Israetel said that I also found useful, was doing 1-2 warmup chin-ups before my serious efforts.

So I do a few Pulldowns with 70-80lbs, immediately go to 140-160 for some, then hang and begin doing a slow double or whatever. It’s all on feel, but don’t spend many minutes.

When we were training with Olympians in USAW they had studies indicating that the injury risk of not warming up prior to efforts was basically no less than warming up, so typically I got into a routine of "doing the movement" as my warm up. like benching 2 x 10 x 95 then working my way up.

Oh, so when they tested 17-25 year old kids who clearly demonstrated above-average genetics for strength training, they found they didn’t need much warmup?

Fascinating

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 207.6

Standing OHP 5x5x135
NG Pull-ups 6/6/5/4
CG Bench 3x8x145
Hammer Incline 3 sets
Cable/Rope Row 3 sets
DB Lateral Raise 3 sets

Only 1 pound away from newest low in 4 years and still moving the same weights as when I was 220. Might partly be because I have a new workout buddy which for me really helps (in a couple ways). Also, my preworkout shake/meal is much larger.

My morning preworkout shake:
2 scoops Vegan/pea protein
2 scoops HBCD
1 TBSP honey
100g blueberries

Roughly 50g protein and 100g carbs, 4g fat.

 

[Dustin07]

I bet that honey and blueberry combo gives you a little extra oomph when lifting. I have really liked my sessions where I use like a cranberry juice or even coconut water as the mixer in my preWO.

I meant only with regard to pull-ups. I do 10 minute incline walk before every workout, and multiple sets of warmups for all big lift except pull-ups for some unknown reason

For bench 5x5, my warm up would:
Bar x 10
95 x 5
135 x 5
185 x 3
205 x 2
Work sets.

That’s how it goes for all free weight compounds (machine compounds a bit less). Single joint exercises I don’t do any warm ups. So, maybe I need more warm ups for pull ups like I do for bench.

honestly you'll notice I often have a couple sets of light weight db curls before most of my sessions. the elbows are one joint i definitely need to warm up a lot. I'll bb curl the empty bar 10-20 times (IN THE SQUAT RACK!) before squatting, lol.

Oh, so when they tested 17-25 year old kids who clearly demonstrated above-average genetics for strength training, they found they didn’t need much warmup?

you know full well that disclosing the age of the participants would not have supported their narrative, so I can only assume they're referring to all trained athletes from age 17-99

I did however see one of our coaches wife hit a full snatch, caught in an a2g OH squat at nearly 80 years old and that's something thats stuck with me for a lot of years. that's impressive mobility for an older gal!

 

[GreenMachineX]

I bet that honey and blueberry combo gives you a little extra oomph when lifting. I have really liked my sessions where I use like a cranberry juice or even coconut water as the mixer in my preWO.


honestly you'll notice I often have a couple sets of light weight db curls before most of my sessions. the elbows are one joint i definitely need to warm up a lot. I'll bb curl the empty bar 10-20 times (IN THE SQUAT RACK!)

Well, yes, the blueberries and honey on top of the HBCD. I’m really enjoying such high carb intake preworkout. The past week of 5x5’s on bench, squat, and OHP were all 0 RIR on the last set. As I continue to cut weight, it’ll be interesting to see if I can continue to make progress on the 5x5’s if I add another 5 lb to the bar with that preworkout meal. Kcal still going to be 2800-3000 per day.

 

[Dustin07]

I’m really enjoying such high carb intake preworkout.

when I was competing I would do the same thing pretty much in my preWO and I'd pack an extra shaker of aminos and dextrose for intrawork out since I'd usually lift for an hour or so, do wod (5-15min), chill for 20minutes+ then do another wod. I felt like 2hr sessions were pretty consistent energy level when doing this.

Looking back, I should have likely been consuming more calories during the day as well to maximize strength results but at the time I just wanted to be as lean as possible with a high work capacity for my current sport so it worked out pretty decent.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 207.8

Went a little high on kcal yesterday (3200), and only had 6k steps on top of the workout. Unsure if I was in a deficit with that, but probably just under or at maintenance. Fitbit says I burned 3520kcal yesterday.

 

[Dustin07]

getting steps in can be such a crazy challenge for such a simple thing. I still rarely get 10k I'm sure, even if I hit cardio for 25-45 minutes at the gym.

 

[GreenMachineX]

getting steps in can be such a crazy challenge for such a simple thing. I still rarely get 10k I'm sure, even if I hit cardio for 25-45 minutes at the gym.

Well, usually I can get 8k very easily because I work at home, but I’ve been a little apprehensive with this 20 degree weather

 

[Dustin07]

but I’ve been a little apprehensive with this 20 degree weather

that stuff tore me up last weekend man, we were sitting at 27f all day sat and sun while I was putting in every daylight hour working on the greenhouse. but it was dry and sunny. occasionally the wind would kick up and I'd be out there using every 4 letter word I could think of until I remembered I had a coat so I'd put that on, the wind would stop, I'd be sweating and cursing how the coat was in my way, I'd take the coat back off, bash my hand on something, the wind would come back in and I'd be out their cursing again. I'd get into a groove the music would be fire, then my wife would come out and I couldn't hear a word she was saying cause the music was too loud so I'd have to start the whole process over again until I finally got into the shower and the hot water felt like pins and needles

 

[Dustin07]

I know my weaknesses, I'm not built for construction.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Deadlift
3x365
3x385
3/3/2/1 x 405

Leg Press 3 sets
DB Curls 4 sets
Machine Shrugs 4 sets

 

[Dustin07]

9 reps at 405? solid.

 

[GreenMachineX]

9 reps at 405? solid.

Thanks. I was feeling a bit sluggish throughout also, so I’m pretty happy with it. I’ll shoot for 3x3 next time.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 207.4

Progress. It’s pretty nice to be able to eat 3200kcal on a training day and still wake up lighter.

About to get labs drawn: test, free test, e2, DHT, thyroid, CBC, CMP

 

[Segansational]

Only 1 pound away from newest low in 4 years and still moving the same weights as when I was 220. Might partly be because I have a new workout buddy which for me really helps (in a couple ways). Also, my preworkout shake/meal is much larger.

My morning preworkout shake:
2 scoops Vegan/pea protein
2 scoops HBCD
1 TBSP honey
100g blueberries

Roughly 50g protein and 100g carbs, 4g fat.

A workout partner can definitely increase the effort!

Also, that shake sounds good, but I can't imagine eating all that before working out! How far in advance do you have that?

Well, usually I can get 8k very easily because I work at home, but I’ve been a little apprehensive with this 20 degree weather

I primarily work from home too, but my job is so desk heavy that I barely get 7k steps unless focusing on it. I should get one of those desk treadmills...

Weight: 207.4

Progress. It’s pretty nice to be able to eat 3200kcal on a training day and still wake up lighter.

About to get labs drawn: test, free test, e2, DHT, thyroid, CBC, CMP

Makes me think that 1. I could probably use a higher refeed day, and 2. Good on you for getting the bloodwork done!

 

[GreenMachineX]

A workout partner can definitely increase the effort!

Also, that shake sounds good, but I can't imagine eating all that before working out! How far in advance do you have that?



I primarily work from home too, but my job is so desk heavy that I barely get 7k steps unless focusing on it. I should get one of those desk treadmills...



Makes me think that 1. I could probably use a higher refeed day, and 2. Good on you for getting the bloodwork done!

Normally that preworkout shake is 2 scoops vegan protein and 2 scoop HBCD only…just that day I added the honey and blueberries. Either way though, that’s 30 minutes before I start my 10 minute incline walk, followed by the Workout. No issues with it, but it’s super rare I get gastro issues (except maybe protein farts so I just crop dust the gym often).

What helps me get extra steps at home is walking the dog every couple hours. My job is a desk job too, but I just get up and go.

Get that refeed! Are you cutting also?

 

[Segansational]

Normally that preworkout shake is 2 scoops vegan protein and 2 scoop HBCD only…just that day I added the honey and blueberries. Either way though, that’s 30 minutes before I start my 10 minute incline walk, followed by the Workout. No issues with it, but it’s super rare I get gastro issues (except maybe protein farts so I just crop dust the gym often).

What helps me get extra steps at home is walking the dog every couple hours. My job is a desk job too, but I just get up and go.

Get that refeed! Are you cutting also?

Yeah, I've been cutting since Sept. Took a maintenance break for the month of Dec, but back on it again. Trying to get those abs to come back out of hiding... but realistically I'm just trying to finally get lean enough to sustain lower levels of BF when it's time to build back up again.

 

[Hyde]

Yeah, I've been cutting since Sept. Took a maintenance break for the month of Dec, but back on it again. Trying to get those abs to come back out of hiding... but realistically I'm just trying to finally get lean enough to sustain lower levels of BF when it's time to build back up again.

So you’ve been cutting since January. It’s been less than 4 weeks. I’m not saying you shouldn’t, but be mindful about what YOUR body is doing and what you aim to accomplish.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Kcal today: 3000

More than I planned, but quite sure I’m still in a deficit.

Upper push first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 207.6

Slept terribly. Unsure of the cause since I’m doing everything right and avoiding all potential detractors. 4th night like this. Edit: I’ve been taking a new brand of Vitamin D3 and K2 for about 4 or 5 days… I wonder if that’s the issue. I switched back to Now Foods brand for today.

About to do upper push.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Flat BB 5 x 5/5/4/4/5 x 230
Hammer OHP 3 x 8 x 200
DB Upright Row 4 x 12 x 32.5’s
Skullcrushers 4 x 7/6/6/6 x 60
Strict Pull-ups (Tempo 2-2-2-2) 4 x 3/3/3/3

Couldn’t quite get the 5x5 with the goal weight. Will try again next week.

 

[Dustin07]

I like how you finished with 5 though. I have many times gone into a set thinking it was a bit harder than it should have been then found myself feeling better about the next couple sets at the same weight.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I like how you finished with 5 though. I have many times gone into a set thinking it was a bit harder than it should have been then found myself feeling better about the next couple sets at the same weight.

Thanks. It was one of those type of sets that @Hyde i think said don’t do too often…superpsyched myself up, huffing and puffing before, etc. If I can get some good sleep finally the next few days, I think I could get the 5x5. I did feel more rundown today than when I did the last 5x5 at 225.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I like how you finished with 5 though. I have many times gone into a set thinking it was a bit harder than it should have been then found myself feeling better about the next couple sets at the same weight.

Also, that’s how the first set felt. I did a thorough warm up, but that first set…everything about it felt heavy, joints too.

 

[Hyde]

Thanks. It was one of those type of sets that @Hyde i think said don’t do too often…superpsyched myself up, huffing and puffing before, etc. If I can get some good sleep finally the next few days, I think I could get the 5x5. I did feel more rundown today than when I did the last 5x5 at 225.

Bench is more forgiving than squats and deadlifts by a long shot in that regard.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Bench is more forgiving than squats and deadlifts by a long shot in that regard.

Gotcha.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 207.0

Let’s go! 3k yesterday and still down.

Last nights sleep was so much better. Only difference was eliminating that new D3/K2 combo.

 

[Segansational]

So you’ve been cutting since January. It’s been less than 4 weeks. I’m not saying you shouldn’t, but be mindful about what YOUR body is doing and what you aim to accomplish.

Not sure I'm following. Everything I'm focused on right now is aesthetics, so I need to get leaner before building up again. Never been sub 14%. Maintenance was at lower level, so yes, while sustaining current physique levels, still adjusting to lower cal intakes / new BW. Feel free to take to my log though so we don't clutter Green's.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Not sure I'm following. Everything I'm focused on right now is aesthetics, so I need to get leaner before building up again. Never been sub 14%. Maintenance was at lower level, so yes, while sustaining current physique levels, still adjusting to lower cal intakes / new BW. Feel free to take to my log though so we don't clutter Green's.

I think he meant regarding a refeed already…

 

[Hyde]

Not sure I'm following. Everything I'm focused on right now is aesthetics, so I need to get leaner before building up again. Never been sub 14%. Maintenance was at lower level, so yes, while sustaining current physique levels, still adjusting to lower cal intakes / new BW. Feel free to take to my log though so we don't clutter Green's.

Yes, Green Machine has it: you’ve been in a deficit for just a few weeks, so you will probably make more overall fatloss progress NOT eating a cheat meal.

 

[GreenMachineX]

A workout partner can definitely increase the effort!

Also, that shake sounds good, but I can't imagine eating all that before working out! How far in advance do you have that?



I primarily work from home too, but my job is so desk heavy that I barely get 7k steps unless focusing on it. I should get one of those desk treadmills...



Makes me think that 1. I could probably use a higher refeed day, and 2. Good on you for getting the bloodwork done!

Also, my caloric maintenance is pretty high, so don’t use my numbers as a guide for refeeds or anything. I ate 3k yesterday and hit a new low of 207.0 today.

 

[Hyde]

Also, my caloric maintenance is pretty high, so don’t use my numbers as a guide for refeeds or anything. I ate 3k yesterday and hit a new low of 207.0 today.

This is a great point as well; you’re a full 50lbs heavier. Nevermind all our individual genetics etc that influence energy needs.

 

[Segansational]

Yes, Green Machine has it: you’ve been in a deficit for just a few weeks, so you will probably make more overall fatloss progress NOT eating a cheat meal.

Two things:

1. I probably bumped cals that day by about 400-500 cals over my cutting total, basically a protein bar, a heavier post WO morning meal, and slightly more food at dinner.

So, what do you guys call a "refeed"?

2. The higher volume work I'm doing is becoming a challenge to recover on while on reduced calories. So if not a refeed day once a week, what would you recommend while still trying to lose weight - particularly to combat some of the recovery challenges?

 

[Hyde]

Two things:

1. I probably bumped cals that day by about 400-500 cals over my cutting total, basically a protein bar, a heavier post WO morning meal, and slightly more food at dinner.

So, what do you guys call a "refeed"?

2. The higher volume work I'm doing is becoming a challenge to recover on while on reduced calories. So if not a refeed day once a week, what would you recommend while still trying to lose weight - particularly to combat some of the recovery challenges?

A refeed is a targeted increase in carbohydrates, well over the norm, with a calorie count solidly into a surplus. At least as high as a “high” day in a carb cycling plan. Protein and fats usually even get pulled down to allow even more carbs without making the surplus as excessive, but there still should be an obvious surplus to the body because this is about hormone signaling as much as glycogen replenishment. The calories are accounted for by the paltry low days (often as low as 50g carbs total, plus meat & veggies otherwise) that drive the overall weekly deficit.

A cheat meal is basically just mental, fluxing dopamine, which can have its place - mainly in adherence. The less someone struggles with adherence, the less these should be used. But if you have to have it, you should - slow progress is better than no progress!

These can both accomplish similar things, but the thing to consider is if you don’t reach a new low weight in the next few days after the surplus day once the water comes off, you probably shouldn’t have had the surplus (from a progress standpoint). It’s an experiment, and you’re unique, so you will always be trialing what seems to work or doesn’t.

When you are cutting, you are underfueled. I actually lift at higher relative percentages of my daily 1RM when I am losing weight, because volume is by far the hardest thing to recover from. So you either do less sets/volume or have to slow down training frequency. Ideally you keep frequency up for exercise but shorten the sessions some. You aren’t getting stronger in a cut if androgens aren’t at play certainly (unless you had other big holes in your training/recovery that you suddenly fixed coincidentally). So the training serves to preserve your muscle and strength during the phase as much as possible. Fatloss is the priority, ultimately, as cutting isn’t good for building muscle - it’s good for looking muscular!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 206.6

New low!

If I can get to 203, that’s a 10 year low.

What’s working is 4 workouts per week, 20-30 minute incline walks after workouts, ~2800 kcal 5-6 days per week, one large cheat meal (maybe an additional larger meal in the weekend also), 10k steps per day on average (includes most of the incline walking), and 1 hour long mountain bike ride per week on excess calorie day. Lifts aren’t hurting too bad.

This was yesterday:
View attachment 255997

Weight today: 206.8

So close to this back in October, but I think I’m carbed up higher than then. Haven’t weighed less than this since 2022 (203 is the lowest in 2022).

 

[GreenMachineX]

Do any of you guys have any thoughts on lead exposure from vegan protein powders? I’m retesting casein and whey right now (different brand than ON) to see if I feel better with it compared to ON. I feel fine when I do vegan powders. But I’ve been reading than vegan powders like pea can have astronomic amounts of lead.

 

[Dustin07]

To add to what Hyde said, people used to use the term "cheat day" or "cheat meal", I really do like the word "refeed" a lot more because it gives the event intention. The intention isn't to eat an entire cake, 16 boxes of twinkies, and 7 liters of Coke. and I have seen a lot of coaches also set a time limit on it like 2 hours (think like an extended restaurant visit). If my wife and I choose to have alcohol, then the refeed meal will be most likely even lower fat like a salmon salad but with a lot of carbs, bread, pasta, etc. If we are staying dry I might splurge deeper into the fats and carbs with something like philly cheesesteak, tater tots, etc.

if your goal is to cut 3,500 calories a week, it's easy to undo a lot of that, if not all of it on a Saturday by accident. So I also try to plan this "refeed" in a way that contributes to lifting. Sundays are my favorite day to lift, so a Saturday night date night refeed meal with my wife usually works in so many ways for my own goals and lifestyle.

Yes, Green Machine has it: you’ve been in a deficit for just a few weeks, so you will probably make more overall fatloss progress NOT eating a cheat meal.

Weight today: 206.8

So close to this back in October, but I think I’m carbed up higher than then. Haven’t weighed less than this since 2022 (203 is the lowest in 2022).

Do any of you guys have any thoughts on lead exposure from vegan protein powders? I’m retesting casein and whey right now (different brand than ON) to see if I feel better with it compared to ON. I feel fine when I do vegan powders. But I’ve been reading than vegan powders like pea can have astronomic amounts of lead.

I honestly don't have any information or thoughts personally, I typically avoid anything vegan or vegetarian that isn't real food. I don't have a scientific reason for it that I can verbalize, there is just something about it that rubs me wrong. Like, if I'm eating fake food/supplements, I'd rather it at least mimic protein/animal meat.

But it might also be the redneck in me, someone says vegan and I unsubscribe pretty fast.

 

[Hyde]

I would ask myself if I need to be using a vegan powder, what the reasoning is.

If it’s just because of cost, get the higher quality safer product like a heavily tested whey brand that’s found to be good. It even has higher bioavailability so you can use a bit less to help mitigate cost difference, although truly I would not compromise on quality for cost at this point in my life.

If it’s digestability or allergy, spring for an isolate or a whey with digestive enzymes added especially, or if that isn’t a good option, try beef protein isolate - this is what I’ve been using for some months now and it’s really been such a great switch. I just digest and feel great on it, cost is reasonable too. Whey must have added enzymes and I can only really tolerate modest amounts, a scoop here or there. I can drink 70g of beef iso no bloat or mucus change.

Egg powder I don’t do well on, makes me very gassy.

I know you’re not a vegan, so I’m assuming it’s cost or allergy. But I would spend the money if that’s the only issue and cut other supplements first; protein powder is literally accounting for some of your food intake so it should be treated as such.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I would ask myself if I need to be using a vegan powder, what the reasoning is.

If it’s just because of cost, get the higher quality safer product like a heavily tested whey brand that’s found to be good. It even has higher bioavailability so you can use a bit less to help mitigate cost difference, although truly I would not compromise on quality for cost at this point in my life.

If it’s digestability or allergy, spring for an isolate or a whey with digestive enzymes added especially, or if that isn’t a good option, try beef protein isolate - this is what I’ve been using for some months now and it’s really been such a great switch. I just digest and feel great on it, cost is reasonable too. Whey must have added enzymes and I can only really tolerate modest amounts, a scoop here or there. I can drink 70g of beef iso no bloat or mucus change.

Egg powder I don’t do well on, makes me very gassy.

I know you’re not a vegan, so I’m assuming it’s cost or allergy. But I would spend the money if that’s the only issue and cut other supplements first; protein powder is literally accounting for some of your food intake so it should be treated as such.

The reason for any protein powder is at breakfast with my 4 eggs, I can increase protein without much extra fat so I can save kcal and to save a little time because I can drink it with my oat shake. Then, preworkout, it’s to get something easily digestible with the cluster dextrin and it’s always been 3+ hours since breakfast. Lastly, the reason I go with pea/vegan is whey and casein have made me feel lethargic in the past. With today’s experiment, I used MyProtein half scoop whey and full scoop MyProtein casein and did alright. Maybe there’s something in ON’s I don’t respond well to?

Edit: cost was the most recent bonus I realized for the pea proteins from MyProtein.

 

[Hyde]

The reason for any protein powder is at breakfast with my 4 eggs, I can increase protein without much extra fat so I can save kcal and to save a little time because I can drink it with my oat shake. Then, preworkout, it’s to get something easily digestible with the cluster dextrin and it’s always been 3+ hours since breakfast. Lastly, the reason I go with pea/vegan is whey and casein have made me feel lethargic in the past. With today’s experiment, I used MyProtein half scoop whey and full scoop MyProtein casein and did alright. Maybe there’s something in ON’s I don’t respond well to?

Edit: cost was the most recent bonus I realized for the pea proteins from MyProtein.

I don’t really see the need for casein in a diet that contains whole food protein sources like eggs and meat. Along with being combined with the fats present naturally in a normal mixed-macro meal, they’ll provide steady amino levels throughout the day into the evening that makes casein largely unnecessary.

Casein is fine if you enjoy it, get satiety from it etc, but if you did find casein to be an issue, it’s kind of a ripoff anyway compared to the benefits of whey or milk proteins. You just don’t need something THAT slow if you eat at least 3 meals over, say, at least an 8 hour feeding window.

And yeah I can understand if you do find whey to make you lethargic, but like I said really experiment with different products (or try beef).

Between the lesser amino profile of vegan proteins AND knowing they’re higher in metals, it’s hard to see it being worth it for the non-vegan.

 

[akboom87]

I don’t really see the need for casein in a diet that contains whole food protein sources like eggs and meat. Along with being combined with the fats present naturally in a normal mixed-macro meal, they’ll provide steady amino levels throughout the day into the evening that makes casein largely unnecessary.

Casein is fine if you enjoy it, get satiety from it etc, but if you did find casein to be an issue, it’s kind of a ripoff anyway compared to the benefits of whey or milk proteins. You just don’t need something THAT slow if you eat at least 3 meals over, say, at least an 8 hour feeding window.

And yeah I can understand if you do find whey to make you lethargic, but like I said really experiment with different products (or try beef).

Between the lesser amino profile of vegan proteins AND knowing they’re higher in metals, it’s hard to see it being worth it for the non-vegan.

What beef isolate are you using. I’ve never been brave enough to try one

 

[GreenMachineX]

I don’t really see the need for casein in a diet that contains whole food protein sources like eggs and meat. Along with being combined with the fats present naturally in a normal mixed-macro meal, they’ll provide steady amino levels throughout the day into the evening that makes casein largely unnecessary.

Casein is fine if you enjoy it, get satiety from it etc, but if you did find casein to be an issue, it’s kind of a ripoff anyway compared to the benefits of whey or milk proteins. You just don’t need something THAT slow if you eat at least 3 meals over, say, at least an 8 hour feeding window.

And yeah I can understand if you do find whey to make you lethargic, but like I said really experiment with different products (or try beef).

Between the lesser amino profile of vegan proteins AND knowing they’re higher in metals, it’s hard to see it being worth it for the non-vegan.

The casein is really only because I didn’t know of any other cost effective option that wasn’t whey or pea. Which egg or beef do you trust that actually puts the protein in there?

 

[Hyde]

What beef isolate are you using. I’ve never been brave enough to try one

The casein is really only because I didn’t know of any other cost effective option that wasn’t whey or pea. Which egg or beef do you trust that actually puts the protein in there?

Carnivor - start with chocolate, or maybe fruit punch. I also like their vanilla caramel, but cocoa compliments the funkiness of beef best. I haven’t tried the rocket pop flavor yet, and generally don’t like most cinnamon proteins.

Been through about four 5lb tubs straight lately and just picked up a 100-serving bag of chocolate from DPS for a great price.