Building Back Up

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 211.6

4 pounds until I hit previous low, and pretty sure I still have some glycogen left to lose. Hopefully I hit 205 by the next forced diet break. After that, hitting 200 should be no problem as I don’t foresee any forced diet breaks until late August.

Sleep and workouts are struggling, but it is what it is.

 

[MrKleen73]

You've got this! All you have to do is...

 

[Dustin07]

Weight: 211.6

4 pounds until I hit previous low, and pretty sure I still have some glycogen left to lose. Hopefully I hit 205 by the next forced diet break. After that, hitting 200 should be no problem as I don’t foresee any forced diet breaks until late August.

Sleep and workouts are struggling, but it is what it is.

You've got this! All you have to do is...

View attachment 253531

haha this is my favorite fish in my tank. hides in the weirdest rocks. swims everywhere like an idiot, will take food out of other fishe's mouthes and seems to be the hardiest speciemen to survive every tank crash and crisis I've had

 

[MrKleen73]

View attachment 253535



haha this is my favorite fish in my tank. hides in the weirdest rocks. swims everywhere like an idiot, will take food out of other fishe's mouthes and seems to be the hardiest speciemen to survive every tank crash and crisis I've had

View attachment 253536

So, what you are saying is she Just keeps swimming!!!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 211.6

4 pounds until I hit previous low, and pretty sure I still have some glycogen left to lose. Hopefully I hit 205 by the next forced diet break. After that, hitting 200 should be no problem as I don’t foresee any forced diet breaks until late August.

Sleep and workouts are struggling, but it is what it is.

Of course…something comes up. Bad meal tonight, then, two weeks clean. Might need to adjust my goal.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 212.4

Only went over maintenance last night maybe a couple hundred calories, so no big deal. Back at it today.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Redesigning my workout plan a little to:

Monday: Standing OHP
Dips
Cable Upright Row
Triceps Pressdown

Tuesday: Pull-ups
Deadlifts
DB Rows
Shrugs
Curls

Thursday: Flat DB Press
Machine OHP
Monkey Shrug
Skullcrushers

Friday: BB Row
Squat
Leg Curl
Shrug
Curls

 

[MrKleen73]

Weight: 212.4

Only went over maintenance last night maybe a couple hundred calories, so no big deal. Back at it today.

Might be good for a little whoosh effect in the next day or two. You never know. I have often seen a whoosh effect after a bigger meal when dropping weight.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Might be good for a little whoosh effect in the next day or two. You never know. I have often seen a whoosh effect after a bigger meal when dropping weight.

Yes, same. I’ve noticed it more after a Brazilian steakhouse if I stick to meat and rice only. Makes going there more tempting

 

[Dustin07]

So, what you are saying is she Just keeps swimming!!!

its true

Might be good for a little whoosh effect in the next day or two. You never know. I have often seen a whoosh effect after a bigger meal when dropping weight.

the idea of a woosh is the greatest motivation to "keep on swimming" lol
but it's true. when that weight holds steady for a few days but you know you're putting in the work, all the sudden that one day it hits just right.... so nice.

 

[MrKleen73]

Does a Brazilian Steakhouse need to be any more tempting? Some people will go nuts in a bakery, I will go nuts at these places.

 

[Dustin07]

Does a Brazilian Steakhouse need to be any more tempting? Some people will go nuts in a bakery, I will go nuts at these places.

good point, I've never left a bakery bloated, but I've had to be rolled out of a steakhouse more than once

 

[GreenMachineX]

Does a Brazilian Steakhouse need to be any more tempting? Some people will go nuts in a bakery, I will go nuts at these places.

Agreed! We have one close to our house that’s only $30. It’s hard not to go all the time.

 

[sammpedd88]

Agreed! We have one close to our house that’s only $30. It’s hard not to go all the time.

Damn that’s cheap! The one close to me is $55 per person. Still not bad considering beef is so expensive these days.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Damn that’s cheap! The one close to me is $55 per person. Still not bad considering beef is so expensive these days.

Yeah, but to be fair, it’s not the kind where they serve you and you flip the card to let them know when ready for more. This one you go up to the guy grilling it all and ask for what you want. I don’t care though…all I can eat picanha for $30? I’ll walk my butt up there

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight today: 210.4

Doing well. Hoping for 208 by end of week, then new low before the weekend away the following week.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah, but to be fair, it’s not the kind where they serve you and you flip the card to let them know when ready for more. This one you go up to the guy grilling it all and ask for what you want. I don’t care though…all I can eat picanha for $30? I’ll walk my butt up there

I would walk up there all day long for that type of savings, not only are you saving on the food, but also on the tip! That is my kind of place!!!

 

[sammpedd88]

Yeah, but to be fair, it’s not the kind where they serve you and you flip the card to let them know when ready for more. This one you go up to the guy grilling it all and ask for what you want. I don’t care though…all I can eat picanha for $30? I’ll walk my butt up there

Walk fast and you’ll burn more calories and get more for your money

 

[Segansational]

Yeah, but to be fair, it’s not the kind where they serve you and you flip the card to let them know when ready for more. This one you go up to the guy grilling it all and ask for what you want. I don’t care though…all I can eat picanha for $30? I’ll walk my butt up there

Walking up there just helps you make more room for more meat!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 209.0

Stuck to it on a Saturday…w00t. 5 days left until the next forced diet break. But, the diet break weekend won’t be like a vacation gorge or anything.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 208.2

So close to a new low! But, apparently I have way more to lose than I thought. Love handles hanging on

Upper push workout today, deadlift and pull Wednesday, off the rest of the week.

Been consistent with my post workout cardio. 20-30 minutes incline walking 3.0-3.2mph on 8-10% incline. Keeps my heart rate 125-140 depending on intensity.

 

[MrKleen73]

Weight: 208.2

So close to a new low! But, apparently I have way more to lose than I thought. Love handles hanging on

Upper push workout today, deadlift and pull Wednesday, off the rest of the week.

Been consistent with my post workout cardio. 20-30 minutes incline walking 3.0-3.2mph on 8-10% incline. Keeps my heart rate 125-140 depending on intensity.

Don't beat yourself up over it. Having more to lose than you think is very common. I have run into it many times myself.

 

[Dustin07]

Weight: 208.2

So close to a new low! But, apparently I have way more to lose than I thought. Love handles hanging on

Upper push workout today, deadlift and pull Wednesday, off the rest of the week.

Been consistent with my post workout cardio. 20-30 minutes incline walking 3.0-3.2mph on 8-10% incline. Keeps my heart rate 125-140 depending on intensity.

Don't beat yourself up over it. Having more to lose than you think is very common. I have run into it many times myself.

it's gotta be true for about 99% of us tbh. Even @Smont was talking about it in his thread recently- I want to push down to 185 but I'll probably never be as shredded as I have been without getting under 180 realistically.

 

[Smont]

Weight: 208.2

So close to a new low! But, apparently I have way more to lose than I thought. Love handles hanging on

Upper push workout today, deadlift and pull Wednesday, off the rest of the week.

Been consistent with my post workout cardio. 20-30 minutes incline walking 3.0-3.2mph on 8-10% incline. Keeps my heart rate 125-140 depending on intensity.

Don't sweat it boss, I remember a few years back I bulked to 225 and I thought I needed to drop like 15lbs to be ripped, so I got 210 and guess what, it looked like I needed another 10 lb to get ripped lol, so I got down to 200, and it looks like I needed another 10 lb to get ripped

I was finally ripped at about 182 lb. The best part though is when you build back up everything comes back on significantly better as long as you don't force feed yourself back up. Now I have a hard time maintaining a body weight under 190 lb and I can see my abs @210 still. It's a process, but once you get lean really lean it's significantly easier to get or stay lean from there on out.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Don't sweat it boss, I remember a few years back I bulked to 225 and I thought I needed to drop like 15lbs to be ripped, so I got 210 and guess what, it looked like I needed another 10 lb to get ripped lol, so I got down to 200, and it looks like I needed another 10 lb to get ripped

I was finally ripped at about 182 lb. The best part though is when you build back up everything comes back on significantly better as long as you don't force feed yourself back up. Now I have a hard time maintaining a body weight under 190 lb and I can see my abs @210 still. It's a process, but once you get lean really lean it's significantly easier to get or stay lean from there on out.

Yeah, that’s what I need to do. Just continue to buckle down and get it done. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[MrKleen73]

Facts, I may be getting older, but I seem to be able to maintain under my I have to cut weight now measurement, and am pretty sure I am going to move that down from 34 inch waist pants to a 33 just to help me stay leaner. Get rid of all the 34's and just not buy anything over a 33 from there on out. My 34's are sagging, and I don't let them get tight anymore.

 

[Dustin07]

I was finally ripped at about 182 lb. The best part though is when you build back up everything comes back on significantly better as long as you don't force feed yourself back up. Now I have a hard time maintaining a body weight under 190 lb and I can see my abs @210 still. It's a process, but once you get lean really lean it's significantly easier to get or stay lean from there on out.

This is a big part of the process I wish I had trusted and done more when I was younger because the past 2-3 years have been consistent bulk and cuts from 183 > 207lbs over and over.

however my max weights have been dropping from 207, to about 205, 203, and lately I consider 200lbs to be the top rev limiter for me now. On the flip side, I feel like I also see the definition cleaning up at heavier weights. today at 193 I feel like looks very similar to me at 183 a few years ago despite being a lifelong gymrat. I also am getting that V in the lower hips/abs area at 192/193 which is something I never used to get even with fully defined abs until I got down to like 175.

Facts, I may be getting older, but I seem to be able to maintain under my I have to cut weight now measurement, and am pretty sure I am going to move that down from 34 inch waist pants to a 33 just to help me stay leaner. Get rid of all the 34's and just not buy anything over a 33 from there on out. My 34's are sagging, and I don't let them get tight anymore.

I have basically the same rules these days. if my clothes are tight I need to go the other way. although this cut has been sorta hilarious to me cause my quads are tight in my slacks, my knee sleeves are getting really tight, but the waist is a little saggy and my belt is a hole looser. so thats working. ha

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah, those are all great signs things are working. You have a lot more mass than you give yourself credit for. Maybe not in weight, but appearance. I think you have a picture in your mind of what you look like and it is a lot smaller looking than you actually are.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yeah, those are all great signs things are working. You have a lot more mass than you give yourself credit for. Maybe not in weight, but appearance. I think you have a picture in your mind of what you look like and it is a lot smaller looking than you actually are.

I want to be like Dustin when I grow up

 

[MrKleen73]

I want to be like Dustin when I grow up

I don't remember if I have ever seen a picture of you, but it sounds like you are getting there. I would be willing to bet you look more muscular to others than you do to yourself.

 

[Dustin07]

I want to be like Dustin when I grow up

the most important rule is to never grow up

 

[GreenMachineX]

I don't remember if I have ever seen a picture of you, but it sounds like you are getting there. I would be willing to bet you look more muscular to others than you do to yourself.

This is probably true, except my son said recently “you need to stop cutting and build your shoulders, they’re small”. So, I know what I need to work on after I stop cutting.

 

[Hyde]

This is probably true, except my son said recently “you need to stop cutting and build your shoulders, they’re small”. So, I know what I need to work on after I stop cutting.

You’ll gain 5lbs and he’ll say something like ‘Dad you gotta lay off this bulk already’! You can never please them all.

 

[MrKleen73]

Ouch, those things from the kiddos hurt sometimes... What is worse they don't even realize it.

 

[Dustin07]

This is probably true, except my son said recently “you need to stop cutting and build your shoulders, they’re small”. So, I know what I need to work on after I stop cutting.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Ouch, those things from the kiddos hurt sometimes... What is worse they don't even realize it.

Usually I’d agree, but he’s now at the age of knowing exactly what he’s saying and how deep it cuts

 

[MrKleen73]

Usually I’d agree, but he’s now at the age of knowing exactly what he’s saying and how deep it cuts

How old is he again? That sounds like a lot of credit to give anyone under 12 years old. He might understand you don't think it is pleasant. He might even think the reaction is funny, but he does not know what it feels like when one of your favorite humans on the planet, that previously thought you were superhero status starts to call you out on your shortcomings. Honestly, at that point, I don't even know if teens realize how much weight that carries with it. Especially the current batch of emotionally immature, and reactive kids that have been exposed to a lot of the crap on social media.

 

[GreenMachineX]

How old is he again? That sounds like a lot of credit to give anyone under 12 years old. He might understand you don't think it is pleasant. He might even think the reaction is funny, but he does not know what it feels like when one of your favorite humans on the planet, that previously thought you were superhero status starts to call you out on your shortcomings. Honestly, at that point, I don't even know if teens realize how much weight that carries with it. Especially the current batch of emotionally immature, and reactive kids that have been exposed to a lot of the crap on social media.

He’s 13, and yeah, maybe you’re right…doesn’t quite know how deep it cuts, but he is almost there.

Edit: What’s more frustrating about it, is that due to the shoulder issues for 10 years, he’s right. My delta are my weakest point and one of my favorite body parts I’d like to be best.

 

[Dustin07]

How old is he again? That sounds like a lot of credit to give anyone under 12 years old. He might understand you don't think it is pleasant. He might even think the reaction is funny, but he does not know what it feels like when one of your favorite humans on the planet, that previously thought you were superhero status starts to call you out on your shortcomings. Honestly, at that point, I don't even know if teens realize how much weight that carries with it. Especially the current batch of emotionally immature, and reactive kids that have been exposed to a lot of the crap on social media.

He’s 13, and yeah, maybe you’re right…doesn’t quite know how deep it cuts, but he is almost there.

Edit: What’s more frustrating about it, is that due to the shoulder issues for 10 years, he’s right. My delta are my weakest point and one of my favorite body parts I’d like to be best.

my boy tells me I'm small, lol. He is bigger than me, but I challenge him bigly on bench, cleans, and pulls to remind him who dad is lol.

are you not able to do much shoulder work like laterals, forward raises, and OHP very well? Maybe an increase in volume is key. obviously genetics play a roll for all of us, I think i may be lucky to have shoulders and calves that hold onto mass OK but when I really doubled down on my arm work I finally saw noticeable growth there. legit dedicated arms days helped I think.

 

[GreenMachineX]

my boy tells me I'm small, lol. He is bigger than me, but I challenge him bigly on bench, cleans, and pulls to remind him who dad is lol.

are you not able to do much shoulder work like laterals, forward raises, and OHP very well? Maybe an increase in volume is key. obviously genetics play a roll for all of us, I think i may be lucky to have shoulders and calves that hold onto mass OK but when I really doubled down on my arm work I finally saw noticeable growth there. legit dedicated arms days helped I think.

I can do those things now. For so long, I could only press; front and lateral raises hurt. And my triceps take over for my delts. I’m working on my biceps too, but my wife told me if my arms got much bigger compared to the rest of me, I’d look funny. So, big chest/back and arms with small delts/traps is terrible

I’ll be adding front raises in next week. Unsure itll make a difference at this point since I’m still cutting though. I need to figure out my lateral head work too. I rarely feel it in any side lateral or upright row. The most I’ve felt it was with the monkey shrugs.

 

[MrKleen73]

I can do those things now. For so long, I could only press; front and lateral raises hurt. And my triceps take over for my delts. I’m working on my biceps too, but my wife told me if my arms got much bigger compared to the rest of me, I’d look funny. So, big chest/back and arms with small delts/traps is terrible

I’ll be adding front raises in next week. Unsure itll make a difference at this point since I’m still cutting though. I need to figure out my lateral head work too. I rarely feel it in any side lateral or upright row. The most I’ve felt it was with the monkey shrugs.

have you watched any of the Mike Wyck videos on lateral raises? Him, and Seth Feroce have some great videos on different executions that seem to work really well.

 

[Dustin07]

I can do those things now. For so long, I could only press; front and lateral raises hurt. And my triceps take over for my delts. I’m working on my biceps too, but my wife told me if my arms got much bigger compared to the rest of me, I’d look funny. So, big chest/back and arms with small delts/traps is terrible

I’ll be adding front raises in next week. Unsure itll make a difference at this point since I’m still cutting though. I need to figure out my lateral head work too. I rarely feel it in any side lateral or upright row. The most I’ve felt it was with the monkey shrugs.

I really like Cutler's split for what its worth. and if you still find you deal with PEM issues from high intensity sessions on a cut etc, then you might find that Cutler's split gives you far better recovery IMO with great results. I feel like on a micro level I see much better results this way with less CNS taxation vs a powerlifting split which is far more taxing on me. this might let you really address shoulders accutely without overdoing it?

also, years ago someone had hypothosized that dues who olympic lifted before bumper plates had bigger shoulders because when they jerked the bar over head, they had to bring it down carefully, thus gaining the concentric and eccentric on the lift, instead of just throwing it over head and dropping it to the ground so at one point I got really big on that as well, if I was jerking 225 over head, I'd bring it down as well. I think that contributes quite a bit.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I really like Cutler's split for what its worth. and if you still find you deal with PEM issues from high intensity sessions on a cut etc, then you might find that Cutler's split gives you far better recovery IMO with great results. I feel like on a micro level I see much better results this way with less CNS taxation vs a powerlifting split which is far more taxing on me. this might let you really address shoulders accutely without overdoing it?

also, years ago someone had hypothosized that dues who olympic lifted before bumper plates had bigger shoulders because when they jerked the bar over head, they had to bring it down carefully, thus gaining the concentric and eccentric on the lift, instead of just throwing it over head and dropping it to the ground so at one point I got really big on that as well, if I was jerking 225 over head, I'd bring it down as well. I think that contributes quite a bit.

I’ve never really had great delts, and most of my lifting career was spent on standing OHP, push press and jerk. Pretty much my tris just take over everything.

I’ll look into Cutlers split.

@MrKleen73 if those guys are there guys who say to bend over slightly, let shoulder protract, then push the weights out to the side…doesn’t work lol

Nor does the Stronger By Science technique of “reaching down and out as if I’m sliding the weights under a door”. Frustrating.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I really like Cutler's split for what its worth. and if you still find you deal with PEM issues from high intensity sessions on a cut etc, then you might find that Cutler's split gives you far better recovery IMO with great results. I feel like on a micro level I see much better results this way with less CNS taxation vs a powerlifting split which is far more taxing on me. this might let you really address shoulders accutely without overdoing it?

also, years ago someone had hypothosized that dues who olympic lifted before bumper plates had bigger shoulders because when they jerked the bar over head, they had to bring it down carefully, thus gaining the concentric and eccentric on the lift, instead of just throwing it over head and dropping it to the ground so at one point I got really big on that as well, if I was jerking 225 over head, I'd bring it down as well. I think that contributes quite a bit.

Can you just link me to the split you’re talking about? From what I’m seeing, it’s basically a 1 body part per day bro split…

 

[GreenMachineX]

I really like Cutler's split for what its worth. and if you still find you deal with PEM issues from high intensity sessions on a cut etc, then you might find that Cutler's split gives you far better recovery IMO with great results. I feel like on a micro level I see much better results this way with less CNS taxation vs a powerlifting split which is far more taxing on me. this might let you really address shoulders accutely without overdoing it?

also, years ago someone had hypothosized that dues who olympic lifted before bumper plates had bigger shoulders because when they jerked the bar over head, they had to bring it down carefully, thus gaining the concentric and eccentric on the lift, instead of just throwing it over head and dropping it to the ground so at one point I got really big on that as well, if I was jerking 225 over head, I'd bring it down as well. I think that contributes quite a bit.

I should also say re: PEM…

I don’t get it when my kcal are above 3500.

If I’m in a deficit, it gets triggered by fruit, vegetables, and stevia, or a deficit that’s too high. Absurd…I know. But, I’ve been dealing with this for several years now and lots of experimentation. I just wish I knew why each of those things did it…

 

[Dustin07]

Can you just link me to the split you’re talking about? From what I’m seeing, it’s basically a 1 body part per day bro split…

yeah it basically is, its really not a strength focused split but I enjoyed it a lot on a hypertrophy focus

What Is The Jay Cutler Bodybuilder Workout Routine?

Ready to train and eat like one of the best bodybuilders of all time? Keep reading for the Jay Cutler bodybuilder workout routine and diet!

www.setforset.com

I should also say re: PEM…

I don’t get it when my kcal are above 3500.

If I’m in a deficit, it gets triggered by fruit, vegetables, and stevia, or a deficit that’s too high. Absurd…I know. But, I’ve been dealing with this for several years now and lots of experimentation. I just wish I knew why each of those things did it…

I used to be the same way when I cut carbs too low, to the point that my wife noticed the increased moodiness in me, when I took up fasting I seemed to have corrected that issue and I don't feel so effected by it anymore. your calorie level always blows my mind cause at 3500 cals i'm at least 700 if not 1000+ calories into a bulk at 3500

 

[GreenMachineX]

yeah it basically is, its really not a strength focused split but I enjoyed it a lot on a hypertrophy focus

What Is The Jay Cutler Bodybuilder Workout Routine?

Ready to train and eat like one of the best bodybuilders of all time? Keep reading for the Jay Cutler bodybuilder workout routine and diet!

www.setforset.com

View attachment 253782


I used to be the same way when I cut carbs too low, to the point that my wife noticed the increased moodiness in me, when I took up fasting I seemed to have corrected that issue and I don't feel so effected by it anymore. your calorie level always blows my mind cause at 3500 cals i'm at least 700 if not 1000+ calories into a bulk at 3500

lol
You’d think with a metabolism this high, I’d be lean. But, instead, I try to cut, I can’t sleep, feel like trash, and overeat…rinse and repeat. Huge breakfasts are mandatory for me, particularly cutting. Finally got this all figured out.

 

[MrKleen73]

I’ve never really had great delts, and most of my lifting career was spent on standing OHP, push press and jerk. Pretty much my tris just take over everything.

I’ll look into Cutlers split.

@MrKleen73 if those guys are there guys who say to bend over slightly, let shoulder protract, then push the weights out to the side…doesn’t work lol

Nor does the Stronger By Science technique of “reaching down and out as if I’m sliding the weights under a door”. Frustrating.

Are you making sure your scaps are set back and depressed when doing these? If not you are going to be lifting the weight with your traps. Especially if you have an activation issue in the medial delts. Also, according to John Meadow looking up at the ceiling helps take the traps out of it. Also as part of the first queue, if your shoulders are not retracted and you have rounding in your upper back instead of a slight arch, you are going to be using a lot of traps.

Outside of that, I don't really have any tips outside of looking up some medial delt activation exercises to get better a better mind/muscle connection so they fire easily when you try to use them.

lol
You’d think with a metabolism this high, I’d be lean. But, instead, I try to cut, I can’t sleep, feel like trash, and overeat…rinse and repeat. Huge breakfasts are mandatory for me, particularly cutting. Finally got this all figured out.

Well to be fair the PEM requirements are not your dietary requirements based on metabolism. You may need 3500 not to suffer from PEM, but you maintain, or gain weight at 3500 a day don't you? I can't remember exactly, but I feel that is about what you were eating when you weren't making the progress you wanted right?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Are you making sure your scaps are set back and depressed when doing these? If not you are going to be lifting the weight with your traps. Especially if you have an activation issue in the medial delts. Also, according to John Meadow looking up at the ceiling helps take the traps out of it. Also as part of the first queue, if your shoulders are not retracted and you have rounding in your upper back instead of a slight arch, you are going to be using a lot of traps.

Outside of that, I don't really have any tips outside of looking up some medial delt activation exercises to get better a better mind/muscle connection so they fire easily when you try to use them.

Well to be fair the PEM requirements are not your dietary requirements based on metabolism. You may need 3500 not to suffer from PEM, but you maintain, or gain weight at 3500 a day don't you? I can't remember exactly, but I feel that is about what you were eating when you weren't making the progress you wanted right?

I maintain at around 3500, yes. But, I can be in a mild deficit and feel fine (no PEM) if I don’t eat vegetables, fruit, stevia, baked beans, or any other high ORAC value foods oddly enough. I’ve felt pretty good at 2600-2800 kcal if my diet is super restricted. I’ve also felt absolutely awful at 3k when I was eating lots of berries, apples, etc.

FWIW: I think my actual maintenance is 3k with minimal activity.

 

[Segansational]

This is a big part of the process I wish I had trusted and done more when I was younger because the past 2-3 years have been consistent bulk and cuts from 183 > 207lbs over and over.

however my max weights have been dropping from 207, to about 205, 203, and lately I consider 200lbs to be the top rev limiter for me now. On the flip side, I feel like I also see the definition cleaning up at heavier weights. today at 193 I feel like looks very similar to me at 183 a few years ago despite being a lifelong gymrat. I also am getting that V in the lower hips/abs area at 192/193 which is something I never used to get even with fully defined abs until I got down to like 175.

You know, this might be the magic number. Because I think everyone underestimates how much they actually need to lose to hit ab status. But I've also found that when I did finally cut low enough to see a shadow of my abs a few years back, it was roughly a 20# cut.

This is probably true, except my son said recently “you need to stop cutting and build your shoulders, they’re small”. So, I know what I need to work on after I stop cutting.

Burn!

Ouch, those things from the kiddos hurt sometimes... What is worse they don't even realize it.

Yeah, my daughter sometimes playfully pats my stomach and says "big belly" with a smile. On the one hand, I sometimes I joke around and show it off. But othertimes, I do die a little bit inside when she says it. Even though it's light hearted.