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Building Back Up

Cholesterol test is a little less than stellar, but unsure I care about the mild LDL elevation since HDL and VLDL are great:
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GreenMachineX said:
Having some brain fog right now, but do you mean I want my trigs under 96 (based on my labs)?
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He is saying that your trigs are low enough with your HDL that high that the higher LDL isn't so bad.
 
Great vacation so far. Lots of activity boogieboarding, and lots of food haha. Well, 1 bad meal per day so far, but soft serve custard everyday also…that’s my Achilles heel on beach trips.

But, only weighed 214.0 when I went to the fitness center at the condo today, so I’m doing OK. 6 pounds of water and glycogen is nothing. Did some light-ish upper body also.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Great vacation so far. Lots of activity boogieboarding, and lots of food haha. Well, 1 bad meal per day so far, but soft serve custard everyday also…that’s my Achilles heel on beach trips.

But, only weighed 214.0 when I went to the fitness center at the condo today, so I’m doing OK. 6 pounds of water and glycogen is nothing. Did some light-ish upper body also.
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Enjoy your vacation. You’ll get back in your groove when you return!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Great vacation so far. Lots of activity boogieboarding, and lots of food haha. Well, 1 bad meal per day so far, but soft serve custard everyday also…that’s my Achilles heel on beach trips.

But, only weighed 214.0 when I went to the fitness center at the condo today, so I’m doing OK. 6 pounds of water and glycogen is nothing. Did some light-ish upper body also.
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Have fun man, this is the time to unwind and fully enjoy. There's always the grind when you return!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Great vacation so far. Lots of activity boogieboarding, and lots of food haha. Well, 1 bad meal per day so far, but soft serve custard everyday also…that’s my Achilles heel on beach trips.

But, only weighed 214.0 when I went to the fitness center at the condo today, so I’m doing OK. 6 pounds of water and glycogen is nothing. Did some light-ish upper body also.
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good stuff man, I find we usually only have 2 meals a day most vacations, share a lot of it etc so having the 'bad' foods doesn't impact too badly. also ice cream on vacation is my must-do lol
 
Dustin07 said:
he's not wrong! I have no idea why but our tradition now is to hunt out a new ice cream shop anytime we travel lol.
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Dude…same. Well, it’s gotta be soft serve custard for us, but yeah, same principle. I also look for a cheesesteak place that does it like Philly (wit Wiz) 😂
 
I’m back.

Woke up at 216.8

Not too bad!

Upper body and cardio today.

Fully carbed up let me 4 x 6 x 80’s on flat db press. I’m sure I’d get back to 4 x 8 x 90’s or 4 x 6 x 100’s quickly, but still hurts the ego.
 
80s is a great foundational place to be able to come back to, dude. Its like when you flip your bench from a 225 max to a 225 warmup rep.
 
For anyone following along, what’s your thoughts on semaglutide/ozempic? Not for me, but potentially for my wife. I’m a little late to the party and having a tough time differentiating garbage from fact.
 
I'm generally opposed to it, largely because I don't probably understand it well enough (kinda like you, still trying to separate the truth and fiction such as the potential bone density loss. is this from the drug, or the fact that a now lighter person isn't doing any resistance training?). I know a woman who actually did try it for a short period with no benefit at all. her biggest progress was done after coming off birth control, menopause, and then working with a legit bodybuilder coach on a nutritional plan.
 
Weight: 213.4

Since I’ve been back from vacay, and will continue, I’ve increased my protein 20% or so, to 2.5g per kg of body weight. Lowering the fat to allow more protein. Today’s macros:

IMG_4146.webp
 
GreenMachineX said:
For anyone following along, what’s your thoughts on semaglutide/ozempic? Not for me, but potentially for my wife. I’m a little late to the party and having a tough time differentiating garbage from fact.
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I also will caveat I haven't been closely following this topic, but from what I do recall hearing there's essentially several GLP-1 medicine categories now:

GLP-1 (semaglutide)
GLP-1 dual agonist (like tirzepatide)
GLP-1 triple agonist (retatrutide, not approved - but have heard BBs talk about this one)

I think generally the idea is that with more targets, you can get better weight loss effects.

But as a reminder, weight loss is an effect of the medication - but really these were meant for diabetics. So like anything else, there's a bit of a risk/benefit profile here.
 
I have not listened to this yet, but I'd not hesitate to throw Hubberman's info into your deciding.


GreenMachineX said:
Lowering the fat
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that's always the hardest for me. since I took up fasting on occasion I have found I've gone from someone who really can't live off low carb, to someone who no longer needs them. I still love carb loading preWO but I don't really get carb cravings. FAT on the other hand, that's the biggest challenge. even if I'm high protein, if I'm low fat, a stick of butter, ranch dressing, etc looks like candy to me. I find adding a lot of avocados to my diet really helps a LOT.
 
Dustin07 said:
I have not listened to this yet, but I'd not hesitate to throw Hubberman's info into your deciding.



that's always the hardest for me. since I took up fasting on occasion I have found I've gone from someone who really can't live off low carb, to someone who no longer needs them. I still love carb loading preWO but I don't really get carb cravings. FAT on the other hand, that's the biggest challenge. even if I'm high protein, if I'm low fat, a stick of butter, ranch dressing, etc looks like candy to me. I find adding a lot of avocados to my diet really helps a LOT.
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I hear ya. I crave all 3 macros equally 😂
 
Segansational said:
I also will caveat I haven't been closely following this topic, but from what I do recall hearing there's essentially several GLP-1 medicine categories now:

GLP-1 (semaglutide)
GLP-1 dual agonist (like tirzepatide)
GLP-1 triple agonist (retatrutide, not approved - but have heard BBs talk about this one)

I think generally the idea is that with more targets, you can get better weight loss effects.

But as a reminder, weight loss is an effect of the medication - but really these were meant for diabetics. So like anything else, there's a bit of a risk/benefit profile here.
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Interesting, thanks.
 
I think semaglutide is good for those who need it for health reasons. A morbidly obese person, or someone with diabetes the benefits will likely outweigh the risks. That being said, I am still on the fence about it purely for aesthetics. It is the intestinal motility issue that bothers me more than anything else. If you can't push the nutrients and toxins through your intestines bad things happen. The other reason is that unless you are already somewhat of a dieter, you are more than likely going to rebound and end up being worse off than you would have been just staying at your original body fat. because you did not learn to eat differently, you just became no longer hungry. Which wears off upon cessation of the compound. The other thing is unless you are intentional about protein intake, and perform some sort of resistance training you are very likely to lose a good bit of muscle in the process too. So you might lose 10lbs total but half or more is muscle so you just become a smaller less tone person. It is like trying to become skinny fat without the training and adequate protein.

For a bodybuilder doing everything else right, I think it definitely holds a space in the aesthetics department, but not at my level, the risk isn't worth the reward for me. I have seen what low motility does to a person watching my wife almost die of malnutrition from it. She got down to 86lbs, and was almost hospitalized. So that is something I am not really willing to push personally.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think semaglutide is good for those who need it for health reasons. A morbidly obese person, or someone with diabetes the benefits will likely outweigh the risks. That being said, I am still on the fence about it purely for aesthetics. It is the intestinal motility issue that bothers me more than anything else. If you can't push the nutrients and toxins through your intestines bad things happen. The other reason is that unless you are already somewhat of a dieter, you are more than likely going to rebound and end up being worse off than you would have been just staying at your original body fat. because you did not learn to eat differently, you just became no longer hungry. Which wears off upon cessation of the compound. The other thing is unless you are intentional about protein intake, and perform some sort of resistance training you are very likely to lose a good bit of muscle in the process too. So you might lose 10lbs total but half or more is muscle so you just become a smaller less tone person. It is like trying to become skinny fat without the training and adequate protein.

For a bodybuilder doing everything else right, I think it definitely holds a space in the aesthetics department, but not at my level, the risk isn't worth the reward for me. I have seen what low motility does to a person watching my wife almost die of malnutrition from it. She got down to 86lbs, and was almost hospitalized. So that is something I am not really willing to push personally.
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So really, it simply works by shutting off hunger? It does nothing else?
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think semaglutide is good for those who need it for health reasons. A morbidly obese person, or someone with diabetes the benefits will likely outweigh the risks.
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MrKleen73 said:
She got down to 86lbs,
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holy $hit!!!

GreenMachineX said:
So really, it simply works by shutting off hunger? It does nothing else?
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My co-worker was put on it because of diabetes and weight loss was a side effect, same with my wife's uncle. in my co-workers scenario, she lost half her bodyweight in a short period of time. I mean she was a plump girl and a year later she looked like a petite thing. But she was only eating LITERALLY a few hundred calories a day. that's all she had an appetite for.

I don't work with her anymore so I'm not sure of her current status. yes she lost a shitload of weight, no I don't know what potential harm it caused her.

But Kleen's original comment is similar to something I see Layne say from time to time. if a person is unwell, it's about putting out the most immediate fires. like with artificial sweeteners. If a person is morbidly obese, we know that may kill them NOW. but if we switch them to artificial sweeteners which MAY cause a health effect in 40 years, but cuts their calories and gets them losing weight now, it's probably worth it because hey at least we added 35 years to their expectancy, right?

my prefered approach is still NEAT and nutrition but these options exist and people have to make their own decisions.
 
It’s going to slow gut motility a lot to slow hunger, so you literally move food through you more slowly. I know people using it that have not lost weight in a long time, because they had suck habits and still do. They just have a bit lower normal now. I’ve also known people who got good results but such bad gut sides they had to discontinue. But they did build some better habits while using it that they’re continued on with, so they didn’t rebound hard & overall leaner now/less diabetic.
 
GreenMachineX said:
So really, it simply works by shutting off hunger? It does nothing else?
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Yes, that is the main function of it, it stops production of the hunger hormone ghrelin. Without that hormone your body does not tell you that you are hungry, and often makes eating unpleasant since you are never hungry.
Dustin07 said:
holy $hit!!!



My co-worker was put on it because of diabetes and weight loss was a side effect, same with my wife's uncle. in my co-workers scenario, she lost half her bodyweight in a short period of time. I mean she was a plump girl and a year later she looked like a petite thing. But she was only eating LITERALLY a few hundred calories a day. that's all she had an appetite for.

I don't work with her anymore so I'm not sure of her current status. yes she lost a shitload of weight, no I don't know what potential harm it caused her.

But Kleen's original comment is similar to something I see Layne say from time to time. if a person is unwell, it's about putting out the most immediate fires. like with artificial sweeteners. If a person is morbidly obese, we know that may kill them NOW. but if we switch them to artificial sweeteners which MAY cause a health effect in 40 years, but cuts their calories and gets them losing weight now, it's probably worth it because hey at least we added 35 years to their expectancy, right?

my prefered approach is still NEAT and nutrition but these options exist and people have to make their own decisions.
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Also, that is my outlook too. I might have even absorbed that via Layne, or Dr. Mike. I have heard it said many times and adopted the philosophy.
Hyde said:
It’s going to slow gut motility a lot to slow hunger, so you literally move food through you more slowly. I know people using it that have not lost weight in a long time, because they had suck habits and still do. They just have a bit lower normal now. I’ve also known people who got good results but such bad gut sides they had to discontinue. But they did build some better habits while using it that they’re continued on with, so they didn’t rebound hard & overall leaner now/less diabetic.
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I could be wrong but my original reading was that the gut motility is a side effect, and not the cause of the weight loss, but food not moving through you is definitely going to help you to not feel super hungry. That is awesome you know some people who used it and also took the time to learn to eat better while on it. If you can stay on it long enough with the intention of setting up new habits while you are being assisted by not having an appetite for food then you will have better luck not rebounding, and even using the new habits to continue progress. However most people using it are looking for a magic pill, and don't want to actually change anything but how much they weigh, and how they look. Those are the people who are not going to do well coming off of something like this.
GreenMachineX said:
Sounds she should just stick to phentermine and high protein/med carb/low fat when she’s back.
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Yeah, not really any magical macros for fat loss, just adequate protein, and a caloric deficit. If your wife is not lifting she does not need high protein, 100g would be more than enough for most women who don't do resistance training, and honestly most who do. Now someone trying to accrue a lot more muscle definitely needs higher protein intake. The best diet for her is going to be one she enjoys what she is eating enough to be consistent. Figure that out, and her success will come faster. Also, no reason for her to limit herself to one dieting style as long as the protein is adequate, and she stays in a caloric deficit. It wouldn't matter if she was doing 1500 broken into 50%p, 25%c, and 25%f, or the inverse, or one day keto, one day high carb, as long as the deficit is the same the affects will be similar. More weight fluctuations with that set up, but it won't negatively effect the actual fat loss. Not in a way that actually matter more than being able to be consistent for longer.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yes, that is the main function of it, it stops production of the hunger hormone ghrelin. Without that hormone your body does not tell you that you are hungry, and often makes eating unpleasant since you are never hungry.

Also, that is my outlook too. I might have even absorbed that via Layne, or Dr. Mike. I have heard it said many times and adopted the philosophy.

I could be wrong but my original reading was that the gut motility is a side effect, and not the cause of the weight loss, but food not moving through you is definitely going to help you to not feel super hungry. That is awesome you know some people who used it and also took the time to learn to eat better while on it. If you can stay on it long enough with the intention of setting up new habits while you are being assisted by not having an appetite for food then you will have better luck not rebounding, and even using the new habits to continue progress. However most people using it are looking for a magic pill, and don't want to actually change anything but how much they weigh, and how they look. Those are the people who are not going to do well coming off of something like this.

Yeah, not really any magical macros for fat loss, just adequate protein, and a caloric deficit. If your wife is not lifting she does not need high protein, 100g would be more than enough for most women who don't do resistance training, and honestly most who do. Now someone trying to accrue a lot more muscle definitely needs higher protein intake. The best diet for her is going to be one she enjoys what she is eating enough to be consistent. Figure that out, and her success will come faster. Also, no reason for her to limit herself to one dieting style as long as the protein is adequate, and she stays in a caloric deficit. It wouldn't matter if she was doing 1500 broken into 50%p, 25%c, and 25%f, or the inverse, or one day keto, one day high carb, as long as the deficit is the same the affects will be similar. More weight fluctuations with that set up, but it won't negatively affect the actual fat loss. Not in a way that actually matter more than being able to be consistent for longer.
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Yes, she has to train and run for the military. So, the macros I specified for her were because she needs the carbs for workouts. But if she wants to do a short stint of keto to get the body fat where she wants it, that’s cool too.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yes, that is the main function of it, it stops production of the hunger hormone ghrelin. Without that hormone your body does not tell you that you are hungry, and often makes eating unpleasant since you are never hungry.

Also, that is my outlook too. I might have even absorbed that via Layne, or Dr. Mike. I have heard it said many times and adopted the philosophy.

I could be wrong but my original reading was that the gut motility is a side effect, and not the cause of the weight loss, but food not moving through you is definitely going to help you to not feel super hungry. That is awesome you know some people who used it and also took the time to learn to eat better while on it. If you can stay on it long enough with the intention of setting up new habits while you are being assisted by not having an appetite for food then you will have better luck not rebounding, and even using the new habits to continue progress. However most people using it are looking for a magic pill, and don't want to actually change anything but how much they weigh, and how they look. Those are the people who are not going to do well coming off of something like this.

Yeah, not really any magical macros for fat loss, just adequate protein, and a caloric deficit. If your wife is not lifting she does not need high protein, 100g would be more than enough for most women who don't do resistance training, and honestly most who do. Now someone trying to accrue a lot more muscle definitely needs higher protein intake. The best diet for her is going to be one she enjoys what she is eating enough to be consistent. Figure that out, and her success will come faster. Also, no reason for her to limit herself to one dieting style as long as the protein is adequate, and she stays in a caloric deficit. It wouldn't matter if she was doing 1500 broken into 50%p, 25%c, and 25%f, or the inverse, or one day keto, one day high carb, as long as the deficit is the same the affects will be similar. More weight fluctuations with that set up, but it won't negatively affect the actual fat loss. Not in a way that actually matter more than being able to be consistent for longer.
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The gut motility is a huge component of the staying full from it; there was a great discussion on Blood Sweat & Gear recently where Skip Hill was even discussing how it’s affecting his prep - he has a serious distention problem currently on Retatrutide that he has never had before in any prep ever. And this is a man who preps people for a living. The food just doesn’t move, same as when I take Dbol. The appetite loss when you’re backed up doesn’t feel like appetite loss from anything else; it’s very genuine “fullness”.

On that note, they also mentioned how they noticed clients just cannot fill out on these GLP1 agonists. They all like them in the context of helping get lean, staying sane from avoiding all the hunger, but they need to be pulled close to contest to get the gut in line & allow complete fullness.
 
Yeah, that very well may be, I mean it absolutely correlates anyway. However, my understanding is that the true MOA is the cessation of ghrelin release, however having a physically full digestion track could be what shuts it off. I don't remember if it is that or if it works by blocking a receptor or something else. So, I don't know if the physical fullness is part of the intention, or a side effect that also happens to some that happens to add to the lack of hunger. Either way, my big concern is the people who do not get the gut motility back for a long while after cessation if at all. After seeing my wife deal with those things, it concerns me as much as they intrigue me. For now, I will hold off. Maybe they will come out with one that does not hurt gut motility at some point.

On another but similar note, have you all heard about the new drug combination that is in stage 2 human trials now? It is a combination of something similar to semaglutide, a myostatin inhibitor, and another drug that turns off something else that limits muscle growth. The studies in primates showed ridiculous muscle growth, and fat loss with this combination. The likes of unreal steroid cycles type of gains and fat losses. I just watched this video yesterday and was pretty amazed with the study's results in primates.

 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah, that very well may be, I mean it absolutely correlates anyway. However, my understanding is that the true MOA is the cessation of ghrelin release, however having a physically full digestion track could be what shuts it off. I don't remember if it is that or if it works by blocking a receptor or something else. So, I don't know if the physical fullness is part of the intention, or a side effect that also happens to some that happens to add to the lack of hunger. Either way, my big concern is the people who do not get the gut motility back for a long while after cessation if at all. After seeing my wife deal with those things, it concerns me as much as they intrigue me. For now, I will hold off. Maybe they will come out with one that does not hurt gut motility at some point.

On another but similar note, have you all heard about the new drug combination that is in stage 2 human trials now? It is a combination of something similar to semaglutide, a myostatin inhibitor, and another drug that turns off something else that limits muscle growth. The studies in primates showed ridiculous muscle growth, and fat loss with this combination. The likes of unreal steroid cycles type of gains and fat losses. I just watched this video yesterday and was pretty amazed with the study's results in primates.

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I hav not , but I just want the second 2 in that combo.
 
Weight: 212.4

It’s going to be a tough week to continue the weight loss with a few things happening. I’ll stay tight the rest of the Time except those 2-3 meals I know will be a problem.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I hav not , but I just want the second 2 in that combo.
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Agreed, the fat burn from using all the protein and carbs for muscle building would be good enough. Especially considering they gained an appreciable amount in ratio to total body weight. You should definitely take the time to check it out during cardio or something.
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 212.4

It’s going to be a tough week to continue the weight loss with a few things happening. I’ll stay tight the rest of the Time except those 2-3 meals I know will be a problem.
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Nothing wrong with that, some weeks, maintening is a win when family, social work events or arise.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Agreed, the fat burn from using all the protein and carbs for muscle building would be good enough. Especially considering they gained an appreciable amount in ratio to total body weight. You should definitely take the time to check it out during cardio or something. Nothing wrong with that, some weeks, maintening is a win when family, social work events or arise.
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I’ll check that video out today.

The other thing that’s frustrating with social events and trying to cut…I hate feeling like garbage at events like this so I eat more the day before so I can feel decent, but that just adds to the damage. Just venting.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Yes, she has to train and run for the military. So, the macros I specified for her were because she needs the carbs for workouts. But if she wants to do a short stint of keto to get the body fat where she wants it, that’s cool too.
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you know maybe I'm an outlier here but unless her MO is somehow combat and she's serious about strength training, I would not bet that she needs to be carb loading to pass APFT.

I'm not against carbs, I'm not an anti carb zealot, I love carbs. But I am macro fluid lol.

just a thought. I don't know her MO or branch or demands, I just know the basic requirements are pretty acheivable without being a high level athlete.
 
Dustin07 said:
you know maybe I'm an outlier here but unless her MO is somehow combat and she's serious about strength training, I would not bet that she needs to be carb loading to pass APFT.

I'm not against carbs, I'm not an anti carb zealot, I love carbs. But I am macro fluid lol.

just a thought. I don't know her MO or branch or demands, I just know the basic requirements are pretty acheivable without being a high level athlete.
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She’s a higher ranking officer…basic requirements/passing are a no-go lol. Her goal is at least 90% in each event.

But, it’s no longer the APFT; it’s the ACFT which included a 3RM deadlift, sprints/drag/carry, max pushups, 2 mile run, etc. Much higher demand than the old useless APFT, so medium-high carb intake will make a significant difference.

Otherwise, 100-150g carbs per day isn’t carbloading; just talking about having supply because that test takes 2 hours.

Edit: All that to say, she needs to balance fat loss and performance.
 
Yeah, in that situation higher carbs moderate to moderate high protein for her requirements, and low fat is the way to go heading into the test. Limits fat gain and puts the fuel where it needs to go.
 
Weight: 212.8

2 weeks until the next out of town trip where I’ll be stuck eating offplan. Gonna push hard until then to hit a new low.
 
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