Building Back Up

Weight: 214.8

Standing OHP 5x5x130
Pull-ups 5 x 3
CG Bench 4 x 6/6/5/6 x 155
BB Row 4 x 6 x 155
Incline Machine Press 3 sets
DB Lateral Raise 3 sets

Something is up…achy joints, weak, and my left knee feels really unstable even on barbell rows. It started when I did leg extensions the other day, just a little pain in the ACL area, but getting worse. Did I crash my e2, or deficit too large? I don’t really feel anxious or other low e2 symptoms. Hard to sleep, but I’m still only using 1.5mg lunesta.
 
How would your estrogen crash if you are taking the same daily testosterone dose you have been and didn’t introduce an AI?

You probably just pissed off the knee some and feel a little beat up from routine training. No biggie. It’s up to you if you feel you could use a little deload or if it’s just a rough day and maybe you have to scale back knee use for a few days.
 
Hyde said:
How would your estrogen crash if you are taking the same daily testosterone dose you have been and didn’t introduce an AI?

You probably just pissed off the knee some and feel a little beat up from routine training. No biggie. It’s up to you if you feel you could use a little deload or if it’s just a rough day and maybe you have to scale back knee use for a few days.
Click to expand...
Agreed; doesn’t make sense…but there’s a lot of things in my history that do not make sense. It’s doubtful my e2 is low, but something is going on…shaky/weak muscles and achy everywhere, and a thinner face even bloated which coincides with low e2 for me. The knee is just a bonus on top of shoulders, fingers, hips, etc all hurting. The only thing I’ve changed is started eating veggies, in particular cauliflower and broccoli again in large quantities about a week ago.

Edit: yes, could also possibly be overreaching.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Agreed; doesn’t make sense…but there’s a lot of things in my history that do not make sense. It’s doubtful my e2 is low, but something is going on…shaky/weak muscles and achy everywhere, and a thinner face even bloated which coincides with low e2 for me. The knee is just a bonus on top of shoulders, fingers, hips, etc all hurting. The only thing I’ve changed is started eating veggies, in particular cauliflower and broccoli again in large quantities about a week ago.

Edit: yes, could also possibly be overreaching.
Click to expand...
Never hurts to pull bloods if in doubt
 
Weight: 213.4

Took 3mg lunesta last night…I must’ve adapted to the lower dose because I was rekt all morning through church and during the workout. Really bad workout.

DL 6 x 3 x 315 (pretty easy)
Leg Press (light work)
DB Curls (hard sets but couldn’t get the biceps working)
Triceps Pressdowns (hard sets)
Shrugs (meh)
Machine Preacher (hard sets)

Finished it off with a couple heavy tire flips. Outback the gym there’s 4 or 5 different sizes, couldn’t get the biggest one up beside its full of water. The next largest I did just a few reps. My kids did the next size down, sets of 5. I’d like to incorporate these at least once per week, and sled pushing once per week, but unsure when given my current workout plan.

2 days on, 1 day off

Day 1: bench, horizontal pull-up, machine incline press, pull-ups, machine OHP, lateral raise
Day 2: squats, leg curls, shrugs, DB Curls, skullcrushers
Off
Day 3: standing OHP, pull-ups, CG bench, barbell row, incline hammer press, DB upright row
Day 4: DL, leg press, shrugs, Curls, Pressdowns
Off

@Hyde @SkRaw85 @MrKleen73 @Dustin07

Where would you add tire flips and sled push in there without ruining recovery or hurting performance on anything?
 
Last edited:
akboom87 said:
I wear mine no matter what I’m doing just helps keep them warm and under compression
Click to expand...
Gotcha. I’m not sure I liked how they felt on deadlifts today, but everything felt bad today so probably not a fair assessment. I do feel like I should’ve had them on for tire flips.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha. I’m not sure I liked how they felt on deadlifts today, but everything felt bad today so probably not a fair assessment. I do feel like I should’ve had them on for tire flips.
Click to expand...
I’d always wear them any time you will be bending the knee significantly with load. I don’t wear them for deadlifts, but I always did for all strongman training.

On that note, I think flipping tires is basically a gimmick that’s great for unnecessarily risking a bicep tear. Do cleans or high pulls with a barbell and keep your tendons intact.
 
I just want to add that I have trained tire flips; I wasn’t a prodigy but I knew my way around them, the proper technique, and have done an 800lb tractor tire for reps. But they were the only thing that’s ever jarred my biceps with a close shave besides loading extra large diameter homemade sandbags and the Stone of Steel (slick loadable metal Atlas stone that you can’t use tacky on).
 
Hyde said:
I just want to add that I have trained tire flips; I wasn’t a prodigy but I knew my way around them, the proper technique, and have done an 800lb tractor tire for reps. But they were the only thing that’s ever jarred my biceps with a close shave besides loading extra large diameter homemade sandbags and the Stone of Steel (slick loadable metal Atlas stone that you can’t use tacky on).
Click to expand...
I hear ya. Tire flips for me are simply fun. High pulls, etc are no longer fun and I tore my ACL on an axle continental clean and press. I used to have my own tires, only up to a 450lb one, but it was great for conditioning after DL and sled.

I need to figure out how much these tires outback the gym weigh.
 
Weight: 212.8

Weight coming down. Averaging about 3kcal daily, and according to my Fitbit, that’s a 400-500kcal deficit per day. My sleep has been great! Only 1.5mg lunesta last night and still slept great. Lethargic today though.

IMG_5368.webp


Current supplements:
5k iu Vitamin D3
180iu K2 mk7
100mg Vtamin C (very low dose on purpose)
500mg EPA/DHA Algae Oil (yes, another very low dose)
50-100mg caffeine per day
 
GreenMachineX said:
shaky/weak muscles and achy everywhere, and a thinner face even bloated which coincides with low e2 for me
Click to expand...
what about blood sugar/low carb? If I'm very low carb and on carnitine I can get this way during a session. same with dehydration.

GreenMachineX said:
Where would you add tire flips and sled push in there without ruining recovery or hurting performance on anything?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing your available tires don't compare to Hyde's 800lb'er, but I'm not really a fan of tire flips either... but if I were to speculate on where to put it in training, it certainly seems like the pull aspect is going to be a bigger impact than the push so for me it would likely be a finisher on a deadlift or squat day.

My understanding with sled pushes is since they're concentric, they are a compliment to recovery on a nasty lower eccentric day (squats?). when I'm doing WOD's that are built around PL days I tend to add sleds after squats or deads. I run them light though for speed/reps/HIIT. so I'm only usually hitting sleds at like 2-4 plates where I can keep a near sprint speed and thats enough to make you wanna puke after 6-10+ rounds.

I think Hyde is right about tireflips being more risk to reward but if they're light and you like them they might not have a lot of fantastic carryover but at the same time it's hard to hate on anything that gives you cardio in an enjoyable way. I dont' think I understand how a tire flip could be safer for your ACL then power cleans though. but then again you did mention continental cleans and thats a lift I could never really get behind. IMO they have crazy high risk:reward. They sorta seem like a retard lift in my opinion.

GreenMachineX said:
Also, should I be wearing the knee sleeves on any compound lower body work such as leg press and tire flips?
Click to expand...
I don't let not having my sleeves stop me from a deadlift say, but generally like the guys said, anytime I'm flexing the knee I like to have them on.
 
I'm not saying you're a retard lol. I'm just saying when you watch oly and pl lifts well executed there is a particular flow that is followed where all the bodys joints and levers and muscles are moved in the most effecient way possible to demonstrate strength and I cannot for the life of me find a single video of anyone demonstrating a continental clean that looks at all good for the body. they look more like "how close can I get to putting myself in a wheelchair for life without actually doing it".
 
Dustin07 said:
I'm not saying you're a retard lol. I'm just saying when you watch oly and pl lifts well executed there is a particular flow that is followed where all the bodys joints and levers and muscles are moved in the most effecient way possible to demonstrate strength and I cannot for the life of me find a single video of anyone demonstrating a continental clean that looks at all good for the body. they look more like "how close can I get to putting myself in a wheelchair for life without actually doing it".
Click to expand...
lol I hear ya. Actually, I successfully completed the 285 continental clean, but the “push press” of 285 is what popped my ACL. That’s why I no longer do explosive bar movements.
 
Dustin07 said:
what about blood sugar/low carb? If I'm very low carb and on carnitine I can get this way during a session. same with dehydration.



I'm guessing your available tires don't compare to Hyde's 800lb'er, but I'm not really a fan of tire flips either... but if I were to speculate on where to put it in training, it certainly seems like the pull aspect is going to be a bigger impact than the push so for me it would likely be a finisher on a deadlift or squat day.

My understanding with sled pushes is since they're concentric, they are a compliment to recovery on a nasty lower eccentric day (squats?). when I'm doing WOD's that are built around PL days I tend to add sleds after squats or deads. I run them light though for speed/reps/HIIT. so I'm only usually hitting sleds at like 2-4 plates where I can keep a near sprint speed and thats enough to make you wanna puke after 6-10+ rounds.

I think Hyde is right about tireflips being more risk to reward but if they're light and you like them they might not have a lot of fantastic carryover but at the same time it's hard to hate on anything that gives you cardio in an enjoyable way. I dont' think I understand how a tire flip could be safer for your ACL then power cleans though. but then again you did mention continental cleans and thats a lift I could never really get behind. IMO they have crazy high risk:reward. They sorta seem like a retard lift in my opinion.


I don't let not having my sleeves stop me from a deadlift say, but generally like the guys said, anytime I'm flexing the knee I like to have them on.
Click to expand...
So, the sled push, even though chest, shoulders and tris are flexed, no big deal to doing that the day after a comprehensive upper push day? @Hyde do you concur?

I’ll be doing it as a fast as possible walk with 4-8 plates.
 
@Dustin07 pretty unlikely the feeling I was describing was low carb/blood sugar, since my carbs were 350g for the day, and had 75g cluster dextrin pre-workout. It’s much improved today, but both knees feeling unstable and grindy. Planning to get bloodwork next Tuesday or Wednesday.
 
GreenMachineX said:
So, the sled push, even though chest, shoulders and tris are flexed, no big deal to doing that the day after a comprehensive upper push day? @Hyde do you concur?

I’ll be doing it as a fast as possible walk with 4-8 plates.
Click to expand...
Sled is always a great move if you enjoy doing it well enough. The lack of eccentric really makes them ideal for all kinds of work. You can even do a light sled for eccentric-less tricep extensions, Facepulls, rows, etc for extra upper work if desired. But usually, low impact volume for lower body & conditioning are the #1 use.
 
Continental clean is just something you generally have to do to clean an axle. Unless you have catcher’s mitts for hands, you will not be able to powerclean the weights necessary to be competitive in strongman generally for axle clean & press. The axle is usually at least 2” diameter.

It’s common to tear the bicep on the underhand of the continental clean on the first pull as well. I’ve witnessed it firsthand at comps.
 
Hyde said:
Sled is always a great move if you enjoy doing it well enough. The lack of eccentric really makes them ideal for all kinds of work. You can even do a light sled for eccentric-less tricep extensions, Facepulls, rows, etc for extra upper work if desired. But usually, low impact volume for lower body & conditioning are the #1 use.
Click to expand...
In other words, throw it in whenever I want on any day?
 
GreenMachineX said:
In other words, throw it in whenever I want on any day?
Click to expand...
You should be able to put it anywhere you like, except I probably wouldn’t do traditional sled work the day immediately prior to a lower body day - I’d wait until after the squats or deadlifts to do it that day or days following. But you could do upper body sled work the day before squats or pulls of course.
 
GreenMachineX said:
lol I hear ya. Actually, I successfully completed the 285 continental clean, but the “push press” of 285 is what popped my ACL. That’s why I no longer do explosive bar movements.
Click to expand...
just to be fair and to be clear, I like a lot of dangerous things that have a high risk to reward ratio and as hyde often says, is the juice worth squeeze. Not that I like either lift, but I personally would take tires over the continental. but again, I raced BMX for over a decade and blew out my knee snowboarding. I also loved the rings when we would do muscleups etc. all three of these are pretty high risk compared to our standard strength training IMO so I just want to be clear that I'm a hypocrite when it comes to picking activities based on injury potential.
 
Dustin07 said:
just to be fair and to be clear, I like a lot of dangerous things that have a high risk to reward ratio and as hyde often says, is the juice worth squeeze. Not that I like either lift, but I personally would take tires over the continental. but again, I raced BMX for over a decade and blew out my knee snowboarding. I also loved the rings when we would do muscleups etc. all three of these are pretty high risk compared to our standard strength training IMO so I just want to be clear that I'm a hypocrite when it comes to picking activities based on injury potential.
Click to expand...
I gotcha. I won’t ever do continental clean and press again. That was in 2008.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I still want to try snowboarding again one day, or at least skiing, and take the kids. Best times of my life.
Click to expand...
Got my son a membership at the local trampoline place a while back, and he always wants me to jump with him - I just have to cut it straight with him. Dad is big, Dad needs to stay big right now for his powerlifting, and the risk of injuring to my knees etc is radically higher than someone under 200lbs. There’s 50 other kids there so you can jump with them while I watch you. Especially folks who don’t have the squats on their knees mine do.
 
Hyde said:
Got my son a membership at the local trampoline place a while back, and he always wants me to jump with him - I just have to cut it straight with him. Dad is big, Dad needs to stay big right now for his powerlifting, and the risk of injuring to my knees etc is radically higher than someone under 200lbs. There’s 50 other kids there so you can jump with them while I watch you. Especially folks who don’t have the squats on their knees mine do.
Click to expand...
I hear ya…I’m hesitant, yes…but, but, but…😫
 
Hyde said:
Got my son a membership at the local trampoline place a while back, and he always wants me to jump with him - I just have to cut it straight with him. Dad is big, Dad needs to stay big right now for his powerlifting, and the risk of injuring to my knees etc is radically higher than someone under 200lbs. There’s 50 other kids there so you can jump with them while I watch you. Especially folks who don’t have the squats on their knees mine do.
Click to expand...
you have better discipline than me, I'm actually the one asking everyone else to go to the trampline park all the time lol
 
Dustin07 said:
you have better discipline than me, I'm actually the one asking everyone else to go to the trampline park all the time lol
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have a fine line about what I’m willing to do, vs apprehension about an injury, but most often I’ll lean towards “I do all this exercise and whatever so I can be more active with my kids/life”, but, I’m not competing, so @Hyde is in a different place.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Yeah, I have a fine line about what I’m willing to do, vs apprehension about an injury, but most often I’ll lean towards “I do all this exercise and whatever so I can be more active with my kids/life”, but, I’m not competing, so @Hyde is in a different place.
Click to expand...
when I'm around younger people than myself I typically think I'm more invincible than I am. which is why my knee has been busted up since my sons wrestling tourney a few weeks ago 😂
 
Weight: 212.8

Kcal yesterday: 2800

Slept great again. Only took 1.5mg lunesta, but still feel lethargic. Joints and knee improving. Knee feels more stable, but I can tell something still isn’t right.

IMG_5369.webp
 
Workout was pretty good despite the fatigue!

Flat BB 5 x 5 x 220
Horizontal Pull-up 7/7/6/6
Hammer Strength ISO-Lat OHP 3 sets (Top set 6x250)
NG Pull-ups 5/5/5/3
DB Upright Row 3 sets

Reducing volume on everything after flat bench in case I’m overreaching and that’s the fatigue and joint pain. Removed 1 chest press also.

Probably had 1-2 RIR on bench last set.
 
Last edited:
Weight: 211.6

It’s safe to say I gained 5 pounds of actual tissue since the start of Thanksgiving week. Maybe a little less, but pretty close given the level of depletion then vs. now.

Lower body plus arms later.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 211.6

It’s safe to say I gained 5 pounds of actual tissue since the start of Thanksgiving week. Maybe a little less, but pretty close given the level of depletion then vs. now.

Lower body plus arms later.
Click to expand...
Well, you know where you’re at, you have a realistic goal and most importantly the plan & will to make it happen!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 213.4

Took 3mg lunesta last night…I must’ve adapted to the lower dose because I was rekt all morning through church and during the workout. Really bad workout.

DL 6 x 3 x 315 (pretty easy)
Leg Press (light work)
DB Curls (hard sets but couldn’t get the biceps working)
Triceps Pressdowns (hard sets)
Shrugs (meh)
Machine Preacher (hard sets)

Finished it off with a couple heavy tire flips. Outback the gym there’s 4 or 5 different sizes, couldn’t get the biggest one up beside its full of water. The next largest I did just a few reps. My kids did the next size down, sets of 5. I’d like to incorporate these at least once per week, and sled pushing once per week, but unsure when given my current workout plan.

2 days on, 1 day off

Day 1: bench, horizontal pull-up, machine incline press, pull-ups, machine OHP, lateral raise
Day 2: squats, leg curls, shrugs, DB Curls, skullcrushers
Off
Day 3: standing OHP, pull-ups, CG bench, barbell row, incline hammer press, DB upright row
Day 4: DL, leg press, shrugs, Curls, Pressdowns
Off

@Hyde @SkRaw85 @MrKleen73 @Dustin07

Where would you add tire flips and sled push in there without ruining recovery or hurting performance on anything?
Click to expand...
I always had a separate day for GPP activities as mentioned above. Helps recovery and overall conditioning without affecting main lifts on the same day
 
SkRaw85 said:
I always had a separate day for GPP activities as mentioned above. Helps recovery and overall conditioning without affecting main lifts on the same day
Click to expand...
Gotcha. Well, pretty much no way I’ll be doing that at this time…sticking to my 2 on 1 off for now since it’s going so well.
 
Squat 5 x 5/5/5/5/8 x 255
Single Leg Curls 3 sets
Triceps Pressdowns 3 sets
DB Curls 3 sets
Cable Shrugs 4 sets
Machine Preacher Curls 2 sets

Knee sleeves on squats are like a cheat code 😂 I felt so much stronger, steadier, and my form a so much more quad dominant instead of hips/quads. Good call gents.
 
Last edited:
GreenMachineX said:
Squat 5 x 5/5/5/5/8 x 255
Single Leg Curls 3 sets
Triceps Pressdowns 3 sets
DB Curls 3 sets
Cable Shrugs 4 sets
Machine Preacher Curls 2 sets

Knee sleeves on squats are like a cheat code 😂 I felt so much stronger, steadier, and my form a so much more quad dominant instead of hips/quads. Good call gents.
Click to expand...
Naked knee leg-training is for 20-somethings
 
Hyde said:
Naked knee leg-training is for 20-somethings
Click to expand...
Given that I did 4 sets of 5, with a 5th AMRAP of 8 (probably 1-2 RIR still because a jackwad walked in front of the mirror), should I jump my next 5x5 higher then 5 pounds? Maybe 10-15? I will be deeper into glycogen depletion by then though…
 
GreenMachineX said:
Knee sleeves on squats are like a cheat code 😂 I felt so much stronger, steadier, and my form a so much more quad dominant instead of hips/quads. Good call gents.
Click to expand...
knee sleeves and hook grip are the two biggest eye openers I can remember in the past 15 years. Coach kept watching me fail like 215 on power cleans. kept saying hook...hook grip it. finally I gave it a try. 215, 225, and like 230 that same session lol.
 
Dustin07 said:
knee sleeves and hook grip are the two biggest eye openers I can remember in the past 15 years. Coach kept watching me fail like 215 on power cleans. kept saying hook...hook grip it. finally I gave it a try. 215, 225, and like 230 that same session lol.
Click to expand...
Ohhhh, is that how you DL so much without wraps? I use double overhand regular grip until 315, then I wrist wrap. It’s been 16 years since I hook grip, and really don’t care enough to do it again.
 
yeah I naturally hook grip just about everything now unless my thumb is weirdly sore. I even hook grip when I switch grip. I typically start switch grip around 315+ sometimes I might start lower cause I feel like the strain on the left bicep is greater so I like to "warm it up" with switch reps at 275 or something. I never replaced my wrist wraps when I lost one a couple years ago. if I am doing heavy RDL reps at like 315 or something they'd be really useful but when I used wraps in the past I felt like my form got really lazy and I'd lose t spine. which in itself is a topic of debate I think.

I don't understand the anatomical science behind it but I feel like I get more lat engagement with hook grip and I think its a big part of why my power cleans are higher with hook than without. I know hook grip is painful for a lot of people and it was for me too, but it stopped bothering me after a few efforts when I saw results.
 
Weight: 211.4

Weight still coming down. Averaging about a 500-700 kcal deficit per day for a week now (calculated from Fitbit expenditure minus MacroFactor input). Intake roughly 3k per day still. I’m going to start incorporating 2600-2800 kcal days though also here and there.

Left knee is not happy. Very mild pain, but feels quite unstable. Wonder if I should get a brace to wear outside of training?
 
I've never even thought about just switching back to DOH vs switchgrip tbh. But now that you've put that seed in my head... maybe I'll give it a go for a while and see what I get. when I get over 405 I do start to feel more pull in the bicep but you know it varies. I've probably felt twinge more at like 425-445 than I did on my 485 pull lol.

Sorry to hear about your knee. The past few weeks i've been doing machine circuits hitting every leg machine in the gym for low weight/high reps to rehab my knee and it's definitely been 1% better every day. in fact today now that I think of it, is the first time I didn't even think about my knee getting in and out of the car, or going up and down the stairs since Dec 20.
 
Dustin07 said:
I've never even thought about just switching back to DOH vs switchgrip tbh. But now that you've put that seed in my head... maybe I'll give it a go for a while and see what I get. when I get over 405 I do start to feel more pull in the bicep but you know it varies. I've probably felt twinge more at like 425-445 than I did on my 485 pull lol.

Sorry to hear about your knee. The past few weeks i've been doing machine circuits hitting every leg machine in the gym for low weight/high reps to rehab my knee and it's definitely been 1% better every day. in fact today now that I think of it, is the first time I didn't even think about my knee getting in and out of the car, or going up and down the stairs since Dec 20.
Click to expand...
What was the recent injury to your knee? Is this the knee missing the ACL?
 
GreenMachineX said:
What was the recent injury to your knee? Is this the knee missing the ACL?
Click to expand...
bashed the hell out of it working with the boys at the last wrestling tourney and have been really focused on getting it rehabbed with daily protocol ever since. I have no idea what actually happened since I never bothered to get imaging and just went straight into PT on my own but it's 1% better every day so progress is good. This is my right knee, left knee is the one I snapped the ACL on.

Dustin07

Post in thread 'Slicin' and Dicin''

Ended up sleeping with that rehband on my right knee lol. I woke up and told my wife "eh, it doesn't look too swollen". She goes, well it's about twice the size of your other knee

Starting anti inflammatory regiment. Will be working on mobility ASAP. It was very painful last night trying to sleep but far less painful today. Just very very tight from the swelling.

I landed on my right side and felt the zap from right right glute through my right foot so idk, maybe just an it band type scenario or "sprain". I don't think the knee cap took a direct hit on the floor so I'm pretty...
  • Like
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top