Building Back Up

Resolve10 said:
Congrats to your daughter. She train for sports too? Any deadlifts? 100lbs press isn’t too far away!

Hope the shoulder feels better.
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She plays lacrosse and flag football, but her workouts are more for strength and fitness (but of course sport benefits are welcome). We just started her DLing; her best so far is 5 x 105, but it’s brand new to her. My just turned 13 year old son will max on bench tomorrow.

Thanks. Shoulder is feeling better with regard to pain, but my strength is still nonexistent and I can feel the nerve or whatever is still non happy. For example, flat db bench today…sets of 5 x 50’s 😂 Guess I just gotta keep at it slowly.
 
That’s pretty sweet. Just asked because next to ACL back problems are the top things we see with our lax girls (or in general, although idk national rates off top of my head and everywhere probably differs to an extent). Any training at that age should have pretty broad ranging benefits though.
 
Resolve10 said:
That’s pretty sweet. Just asked because next to ACL back problems are the top things we see with our lax girls (or in general, although idk national rates off top of my head and everywhere probably differs to an extent). Any training at that age should have pretty broad ranging benefits though.
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Gotcha. Yeah, we need to prioritize it a bit more, but she does rows or pull-ups every workout also, and I have her do band pull ups a couple times per week. She only gets to lift once to twice per week, but she has lacrosse several days per week and ROTC PT twice per week.
 
Weight: 217.2

Excellent weight loss happening, but, I wonder if I should slow the cut a little while I recover from this injury? @Hyde @Resolve10 @MrKleen73 @Dustin07 I don’t want to stop cutting because it’s going so well, but at the same time, there’s planned cheats this coming weekend and the following weekend, so should I plan for maintenance or just under until after the superbowl and potentially recover better?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 217.2

Excellent weight loss happening, but, I wonder if I should slow the cut a little while I recover from this injury? @Hyde @Resolve10 @MrKleen73 @Dustin07 I don’t want to stop cutting because it’s going so well, but at the same time, there’s planned cheats this coming weekend and the following weekend, so should I plan for maintenance or just under until after the superbowl and potentially recover better?
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No, eat less while you can’t lift heavy. Improve your health now, both bodyfat and joint. Save the calories for later when you’re bringing weights back up when things feel better.
 
Hyde said:
No, eat less while you can’t lift heavy. Improve your health now, both bodyfat and joint. Save the calories for later when you’re bringing weights back up when things feel better.
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Gotcha. I’ve had a theory that in the past when correcting a strength imbalance, the deficit was hurting my progress in recovery…but I do see how this is different.

Maintain protein at the same level, about 1g per pound? Or increase during this?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha. I’ve had a theory that in the past when correcting a strength imbalance, the deficit was hurting my progress in recovery…but I do see how this is different.

Maintain protein at the same level, about 1g per pound? Or increase during this?
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~1g/lb is plenty even in a deficit, where you benefit the most from the extra nitrogen retention of higher daily protein intake. So unless you prefer to shift macros to even more protein purely out of preference, that’s already plenty.
 
I was going to weigh in but @Hyde has you covered with everything I was going to say.
 
Thanks for all the replies gents.

I think the shoulder is recovering. Strength is still down quite a bit, but really in both shoulders and everywhere. I think my calories are too low overall and losing too fast.

I did 8 NG pull-ups 2 weeks ago. Did 3 today.

Bent over BB Row at 115 today was difficult compared 165 for the same reps last week.

Feeling gassed all over within 15 minutes of the workout. Maybe just time for a deload also? Either way, today’s pull workout is pretty easy…no legs this week. Taking off until Monday. Weekend trip out of town with a couple big scheduled cheats so maybe that’ll answer my question come Monday. Either way, I’ll be resuming cut for sure (after the following weekend though, after superbowl). Serious this time.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Thanks for all the replies gents.

I think the shoulder is recovering. Strength is still down quite a bit, but really in both shoulders and everywhere. I think my calories are too low overall and losing too fast.

I did 8 NG pull-ups 2 weeks ago. Did 3 today.

Bent over BB Row at 115 today was difficult compared 165 for the same reps last week.

Feeling gassed all over within 15 minutes of the workout. Maybe just time for a deload also? Either way, today’s pull workout is pretty easy…no legs this week. Taking off until Monday. Weekend trip out of town with a couple big scheduled cheats so maybe that’ll answer my question come Monday. Either way, I’ll be resuming cut for sure (after the following weekend though, after superbowl). Serious this time.
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If you’re just very depleted, 3 days off training and a couple cheat meals will definitely help restore a little verve come next week.

I would resume your cut immediately come Monday. There’s no good reason to rebound & lose a bunch of your great progress, and you have 2 back to back cheat weekends already scheduled working against you. Stay the course.
 
Hyde said:
If you’re just very depleted, 3 days off training and a couple cheat meals will definitely help restore a little verve come next week.

I would resume your cut immediately come Monday. There’s no good reason to rebound & lose a bunch of your great progress, and you have 2 back to back cheat weekends already scheduled working against you. Stay the course.
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Yes, for sure…I’ll be resuming the cut in between the weekends.

Still a bit shocked from the poor performance from the past 2 workouts. I’ve been severely depleted before but don’t think I’ve been this weak before. To add to it, even after dropping work weight by 30% or so, and cutting reps in half, I still got mildly sore from the last upper push workout.

Guess we’ll see Monday.
 
Weight: 216.4

Ate 2900kcal yesterday to ensure i felt good for today’s travel and food and all, but apparently still not enough. Slept bad, but at least weight down again.
 
Weight: 225

Gained 8-9 pounds over the course of 2 days 😂 Resuming a mild deficit today.

Something still very wrong with my strength though. Traps/Levator scapulae are excessively tight still. Only flat pressing the 60’s this week and straining for 5 reps. Next chiro appt probably Wednesday.

I’m stretching my traps and levator regularly and using the lacrosse ball on knots back there but doesn’t seem to matter. Maybe there’s better stretches or something I’m missing. Very disgruntled.
 
Couple interesting articles I’ve found:
thecharlotteathlete.com

The Myth of “Upper Trap Tightness”: Is the Upper Trap the Devil? - The Charlotte Athlete

Is your upper trap causing endless pain despite treatment? Learn why common approaches might be wrong & discover the effective way to address upper trap issues.
thecharlotteathlete.com thecharlotteathlete.com
www.physiotutors.com

The Upper Traps: over-assessed, overblamed, and misunderstood!

The Upper Traps are often blamed for being too tight leading to pain in the neck and shoulder region. Adam Meakins argues that this is false!
www.physiotutors.com www.physiotutors.com

In the first article, I look just like the guy with super sloped shoulders from the back point of view.

I’m going to take this info to my chiropractor for feedback. But, training traps in the overhead position, releasing the first rib, and cooling off on Deadlift for a week or 2 to test this out doesn’t seem like it could be a bad idea no matter what, right?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Couple interesting articles I’ve found:
thecharlotteathlete.com

The Myth of “Upper Trap Tightness”: Is the Upper Trap the Devil? - The Charlotte Athlete

Is your upper trap causing endless pain despite treatment? Learn why common approaches might be wrong & discover the effective way to address upper trap issues.
thecharlotteathlete.com thecharlotteathlete.com
www.physiotutors.com

The Upper Traps: over-assessed, overblamed, and misunderstood!

The Upper Traps are often blamed for being too tight leading to pain in the neck and shoulder region. Adam Meakins argues that this is false!
www.physiotutors.com www.physiotutors.com

In the first article, I look just like the guy with super sloped shoulders from the back point of view.

I’m going to take this info to my chiropractor for feedback. But, training traps in the overhead position, releasing the first rib, and cooling off on Deadlift for a week or 2 to test this out doesn’t seem like it could be a bad idea no matter what, right?
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Only skimmed briefly, but interesting theory - basically weak traps responsible for the problem as they try to struggle with heavier loads/strength of other muscle groups. I've noticed lately that my upper back/ bottom of my traps do seem to feel "tight". I've always been assuming it's due to my deads & particularly my benching position. But I also don't really do traps work (shrugs) and haven't for a long time. So this theory for me could potentially hold...
 
Segansational said:
Only skimmed briefly, but interesting theory - basically weak traps responsible for the problem as they try to struggle with heavier loads/strength of other muscle groups. I've noticed lately that my upper back/ bottom of my traps do seem to feel "tight". I've always been assuming it's due to my deads & particularly my benching position. But I also don't really do traps work (shrugs) and haven't for a long time. So this theory for me could potentially hold...
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Right. Also, I think once it gets to the point we’re talking about, normal shrugs won’t cut it, but instead overhead shrugs, monkey shrugs, overhead holds, etc. It’s a bit too early probably, but after adding in an “overhead static wall push” I’ll call it (to simulate the overhead carry/lunge/shrug), my shoulders both feel a lot more relaxed and pain has been greatly reduced. I was able to sleep on my left side again!

There’s something very different about this overhead position when the scapula is locked in with the serratus anterior as well as the upper traps vs. the typical “scapula down and back” position. Anyway, hoping progress continues…
 
Well gents…I don’t know what’s going on. I just feel super fatigued. Shoulder doesn’t feel much weaker than the other now (I can still tell the difference though), but I’m just weak everywhere. Squats are killing me too. Calories the week since the high calorie weekend have been 2600-2700, so still a deficit but not as much.

I was able to db OHP 50’s for 8, and sets of 3 NG pull-ups, so improvement from last time, but still always from normal.


Maybe overreached? Drive on? Sleep is good. 280g carbs and 220g protein. Roughly 70g fat.

Test dose is still just above the 8mg mark (for reference, 8mg daily on the line had me right above normal with free test).

I don’t look super deflated now, and holding a little more water from the higher test dose.

Nerve in neck does still hurt and shoulder in certain positions though.
 
Pain or impingement will cut power, plain and simple. Squats may also be aggravating a something in your shoulder or neck, depending on what’s wrong. How is deadlift strength?

Especially in the context of an injury, dieting should be the priority. You can eat at the buffet every day, but if you’re hurt the numbers won’t go back up anyway - only your waistline.
 
Hyde said:
Pain or impingement will cut power, plain and simple. Squats may also be aggravating a something in your shoulder or neck, depending on what’s wrong. How is deadlift strength?

Especially in the context of an injury, dieting should be the priority. You can eat at the buffet every day, but if you’re hurt the numbers won’t go back up anyway - only your waistline.
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I haven’t tried DLing since the injury. I’ll restart everything next week and begin to work my way back up. I think everything is healing.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 217.2

Excellent weight loss happening, but, I wonder if I should slow the cut a little while I recover from this injury? @Hyde @Resolve10 @MrKleen73 @Dustin07 I don’t want to stop cutting because it’s going so well, but at the same time, there’s planned cheats this coming weekend and the following weekend, so should I plan for maintenance or just under until after the superbowl and potentially recover better?
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Hyde said:
No, eat less while you can’t lift heavy. Improve your health now, both bodyfat and joint. Save the calories for later when you’re bringing weights back up when things feel better.
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MrKleen73 said:
I was going to weigh in but @Hyde has you covered with everything I was going to say.
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+1 to all of that. no real reason to eat in surplus if you aren't trying to gain size or strength in the moment.

GreenMachineX said:
I just feel super fatigued
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How's your vitamin D intake? My energy levels are through the roof when we have 16hrs of sunlight, and complete dogshit when it's dark all day in Washington.
 
Dustin07 said:
+1 to all of that. no real reason to eat in surplus if you aren't trying to gain size or strength in the moment.



How's your vitamin D intake? My energy levels are through the roof when we have 16hrs of sunlight, and complete dogshit when it's dark all day in Washington.
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Well, I wasn’t talking about a surplus…just not a 800kcal deficit or closer to maintenance. Either way, I’m dropping kcal again until the results of the upcoming mri so I know what’s really going on.

Vitamin D is 5k iu per day which keeps my levels at 50 NG/dL or whatever.

I have another theory on the fatigue. Other e2 is high or I just don’t tolerate testosterone levels as high as they are at above 8mg daily.

Cheats over. Weighed in at 225 this morning. Today diet is dialed in.

Did an upper push workout yesterday while fully carbed up and it went terrible. Saw the chiro this morning; MRI of neck scheduled Wednesday.
 
Wishing you luck on the chiro and that getting image elucidates what is wrong and how to move forward.
 
Glad you’re getting imaging. Don’t be hasty with anything, but if you can get a little info that’s usually a positive.
 
Got the MRI results! Haven’t spoke to the doctor yet, but here’s the summary.
IMG_3371.webp
 
Well you’ve got some things going around C6 that could possibly push on nerves running through, which could affect your output/function.

An annular tear means the side of the disc has herniated out somewhat in a spot, like a bit of jelly squishing out of a filled donut is an analogy you’ll often here.

Both that sticking out and the stenosis, aka narrowing of the spinal canal, can make it easier for nerves to get pressed on.
 
akboom87 said:
Don’t know exactly what I’m looking at but glad you got some results and be interested to hear what the doc has to say and all.
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GreenMachineX said:
lol me neither, but I see the buzzwords like “herniated”, “stenosis”, and “disk bulge”. We’ll see.
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😂 I was like I don't see any of the important words like fatal, amputate, etc so must be fine. 😂

A lot of what you have there are similar to the results I had back in 2016-2018. Mine is C5, and in addition to bulging, I have a "burst" disc. so their conclusion was bone on bone. (which you could see in the imaging, as well as the bone spur pressing towards the nerve) I'm curious to see what they recommend you do going forward.
 
Well, at least you know what is going on and your doc should be able to make some plans to move ahead. Wishing you luck brother!
 
Update:
Doc yesterday said the results are what she expected and thinks we’re on the right track with working on posture and neck extension and retraction. The only thing she’s concerned with is the annular tear if I don’t do anything about it, but since I’m actually doing the PT and such, she not concerned.

Found this video:

Within 2 days of doing these exercises, the pain shooting down from my neck to my triceps is gone. Neck feels so much better (Very very mild pain left). Weakness still present but the constant dead arm feeling is improved.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Within 2 days of doing these exercises, the pain shooting down from my neck to my triceps is gone. Neck feels so much better (Very very mild pain left). Weakness still present but the constant dead arm feeling is improved.
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that's awesome. I love it when movement is the solution!
 
Decent pull workout today. Still dealing with Some weakness and fatigue overall, but some could easily be to calorie deficit. Hit a few doubles of 365 on DL, assisted NG pull-up, machine row, etc.

The right metal album really helps though…highly recommended 😎
IMG_3376.webp
 
During this time of recovery, I’ve started to run too. I am SUPER out of condition. 5 minute jog is rough😂
But my first goal is to get to a mile under 10 minutes.

At 220 pounds, running doesn’t feel good lol
 
GreenMachineX said:
During this time of recovery, I’ve started to run too. I am SUPER out of condition. 5 minute jog is rough😂
But my first goal is to get to a mile under 10 minutes.

At 220 pounds, running doesn’t feel good lol
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I feel this. I neglect to do basically any cardio when I run a strength cycle and it makes me feel really off. I've been treating running/cardio similar to weight training and doing a lot of interval work (but in my head, I see them as reps). doing x amount of reps at 1/10 or 1/4 mile in a session and working up to longer stints has been a good approach for me. makes the immediate cardio session more interesting too.
 
Much better workout today. Some weakness still present, but pressing is improved.

Jogged 7 minutes at 5.3 mph. Getting better 😂

Something I’ve added that seems to be helping also is stretching the back of the shoulder (posterior capsule). I noticed that pull aparts were aggravating the dead arm feeling, so figured stretching it instead would help and it did. So it’s not ALL neck stuff. Neck pain is just about gone too. Tricep and lat muscle twitches gone too.
 
Squats, NG pull-ups, bb rows, and everything else doing better.

Realized today I need to just use straps on rows and shrugs when in a deficit, otherwise the intended muscle gets left behind while I’m struggling with grip.

While I’m not happy with my current strength, I can see there when this cut is finally over the gains will come quickly. Haven’t had a positive outlook in a while.
 
Upper Push workout completed. Chest strength still struggling, but left arm is almost equal to right (very mild dead arm feeling).

Shoulder press strength feels so much better. Minimal dead arm felt, and very close to strength last cut on both sides.

Triceps just about equal also, but overall very weak from calorie deficit.

Otherwise, and I think I’ve said this before…db lateral raises do not work my lateral delts at all, regardless of weight. After wasting 3 sets, did 3 sets of 45 lb EZ upright rows and that lit my lateral delts on fire. Strange. I’ve tried all the different variety of forms for lateral raise (shoulders pulled back and down, shoulders protracted, bending over, straight up, etc.) and it just doesn’t matter.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Otherwise, and I think I’ve said this before…db lateral raises do not work my lateral delts at all, regardless of weight. After wasting 3 sets, did 3 sets of 45 lb EZ upright rows and that lit my lateral delts on fire. Strange. I’ve tried all the different variety of forms for lateral raise (shoulders pulled back and down, shoulders protracted, bending over, straight up, etc.) and it just doesn’t matter.
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my knee jerk thought on something like that is that another muscle group is taking superior reign here and over compensating or something. My buddy has his bench up to like 295 now and still struggles to figure out how to 'feel' his pecks through movements. He can sit on the pec deck for 5 sets and struggle to get involvement but he keeps going after it over and over again and usually by the end I hear him say "oh thats the spot" lol.

I know for some of these light weight movements, such as laterals, rear delt swings, etc it's a 15 rep movement for me, regardless of weight. reps 6-8 or so, nothing. rep 10 I'm feeling it. rep 12 its' pumpy, rep 15 the muscle is crying.
 
Dustin07 said:
my knee jerk thought on something like that is that another muscle group is taking superior reign here and over compensating or something. My buddy has his bench up to like 295 now and still struggles to figure out how to 'feel' his pecks through movements. He can sit on the pec deck for 5 sets and struggle to get involvement but he keeps going after it over and over again and usually by the end I hear him say "oh thats the spot" lol.

I know for some of these light weight movements, such as laterals, rear delt swings, etc it's a 15 rep movement for me, regardless of weight. reps 6-8 or so, nothing. rep 10 I'm feeling it. rep 12 its' pumpy, rep 15 the muscle is crying.
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Interesting. I should’ve mentioned I’m also having trouble with engaging my pecs, particularly the left (nerve injury side), so I know I’m not 100% yet. I’m also quite sure I’ve been dealing with this for years, just on a lower level.

I’ll lower the weight (even more) next time I do lateral raises, but going to keep the upright row and build on that.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Interesting. I should’ve mentioned I’m also having trouble with engaging my pecs, particularly the left (nerve injury side), so I know I’m not 100% yet. I’m also quite sure I’ve been dealing with this for years, just on a lower level.

I’ll lower the weight (even more) next time I do lateral raises, but going to keep the upright row and build on that.
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what weight/reps are you doing now?
I'm sure there are plenty of small injuries we don't even know we have, or had, that effect us on the daily without knowing it until something glaring comes up. I broke my left ankle when I was 16 racing BMX and didn't truly realize that my left side was not really engaging on squats and pulls until my 30s because I always "seemed" fine. but all my injuries over the years really have been on that side and I believe that leg is shorter (or longer I can't remember) than my right side and I honestly didn't even know it until the last decade or less... lol. I nurse my shoulders like crazy because I've had at least 2 torn rotator cuff injuries that I know of so first sign of pain I always go straight to prehab these days.
 
Dustin07 said:
what weight/reps are you doing now?
I'm sure there are plenty of small injuries we don't even know we have, or had, that affect us on the daily without knowing it until something glaring comes up. I broke my left ankle when I was 16 racing BMX and didn't truly realize that my left side was not really engaging on squats and pulls until my 30s because I always "seemed" fine. but all my injuries over the years really have been on that side and I believe that leg is shorter (or longer I can't remember) than my right side and I honestly didn't even know it until the last decade or less... lol. I nurse my shoulders like crazy because I've had at least 2 torn rotator cuff injuries that I know of so first sign of pain I always go straight to prehab these days.
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Today’s Workout:

9 minute jog at 5.4/5.2.

Low Incline DB Press 3 x 6 x 60’s
Hammer Press 3 x 8 x 90
Machine OHP 3 x 8 x 180
Cable Flies 3 x 8 x 15 maybe?
DB Lateral Raise 3 x 12 x 12.5’s
EZ Upright Row 3 x 10 x 45
EZ Skullcrushers 3 x 6 x 45
Overhead Cable Extension 2 x 8 x ???

Edit: that jog was tough 😂
I’m thinking doing that before isn’t helping.
 
Good to hear about your improvements. I am sure you are happy to know what is wrong and have an idea of what to do next.
 
Fairly decent pull workout. Could only feel the dead arm slightly on NG pull-ups. Did a few single DL at 405. Machine rows. Cable shrugs.

Edit: I should say I noticed this many months ago…it’s hard to engage my left lat on rows, so pretty sure I’ve had nerve issues for a long time.
 
Upper push today. Dead arm feeling present mildly again. Pain in neck and down left tricep returned yesterday and today. Disappointing workout overall, but, strength is actually better in certain areas.

Oddly enough, the dead arm feeling hits the chest strength the most, then delt press, then tricep. Attempted Pec Deck to make up for the lack of chest pressing ability, good grief…do I even have pectoral muscles anymore? 😫
 
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