Unanswered Blood Results Post PCT Help

[blongo804]

Hey guys,

Finished PCT back around mid April of this year from a Dermatrest/DMZ cycle. I just got bloodwork done because recently I have been feeling a bit more run down than usual, and feeling a little "limp" with no libido. PCT was nolvadex 20/20/10/10 with 8 weeks of CEL M-Test (which clearly did nothing as expected lol).

To start with the positives, things generally look fantastic to me. Here's a rundown on some key indicators:

RBC before: 5.3 (4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL)
RBC now: 5.32

Hemoglobin before: 16.4 (13.0-17.7 g/dL)
Hemoglobin now: 15.8

Hematocrit before: 46.3 (37.5-51.0 %)
Hematocrit now: 46.7

AST before: 41 (0-40)
AST now: 37

ALT before: 40 (0-44)
ALT now: 36

Now the point of this post, here's where I see a slight issue:

Testosterone, Serum before: 645
Testosterone, Serum now: 398

Estradiol before: 21.9
Estradiol now: 25.9

LH before: 5.4
LH now: 3.5

FSH before: 5.2
FSH now: 2.9

I'm not sure what to think of LH/FSH (insight please?), but clearly my test is WAY down. These bloods were taken under the same circumstances as my previous test, fasted, haven't trained for 12+ hours, same amount of sleep before, etc. Diet, if anything, is much cleaner, but that's it.

What do you guys think? I'm open to suggestions on how to get back to normal. Everything is in the "normal" range, but I feel like I haven't bounced back enough. Maybe this is new "me"?

Thanks in advance!

 

[blongo804]

Also worth mentioning.. I have nolva and exem on hand if needed, along with prami.

 

[BBiceps]

I have very little experience with Nolva so I can’t comment on that but I would do another 4-8 weeks of Clomid, I guess Nolva should work the same way.

 

[Renew1]

I have very little experience with Nolva so I can’t comment on that but I would do another 4-8 weeks of Clomid, I guess Nolva should work the same way.

Yeah, I'd definitely do another round of SERMS.
DMZ is very suppressive, and Trest is incredibly suppressive.

 

[MrKleen73]

If you are going to try another SERM run I would go with Clomid 25mg a day for 4-6 weeks, no reason for higher doses and the emotional baggage that can come along with that. It has been proven to be better at kick starting the nuts than TAMOX. Also you are in normal ranges and if not too interested in running other things just give it another month or two and it will come back, just gonna be a slower process.

 

[blongo804]

I have very little experience with Nolva so I can’t comment on that but I would do another 4-8 weeks of Clomid, I guess Nolva should work the same way.

Thanks for your suggestion! Sounds like this is the way to go. I had a feeling this would be the case and of course I have no clomid on hand lol. Will get some.

Yeah, I'd definitely do another round of SERMS.
DMZ is very suppressive, and Trest is incredibly suppressive.

Agreed on the suppression. I guess I downplayed how suppressed I would be when planning PCT.

If you are going to try another SERM run I would go with Clomid 25mg a day for 4-6 weeks, no reason for higher doses and the emotional baggage that can come along with that. It has been proven to be better at kick starting the nuts than TAMOX. Also you are in normal ranges and if not too interested in running other things just give it another month or two and it will come back, just gonna be a slower process.

I'll definitely get some clomid on the way and take up your suggestion on 4-6 at 25mg. I really appreciate the suggestion!

I am happy to be in normal ranges, i'd just like to be closer to "my" normal ranges again since I definitely feel a bit off.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Tsteele60]

If you are going to try another SERM run I would go with Clomid 25mg a day for 4-6 weeks, no reason for higher doses and the emotional baggage that can come along with that. It has been proven to be better at kick starting the nuts than TAMOX. Also you are in normal ranges and if not too interested in running other things just give it another month or two and it will come back, just gonna be a slower process.

How has it been shown to be better than Tamox? Not looking for an argument, just info (preferably cited)!

 

[jrock645]

How has it been shown to be better than Tamox? Not looking for an argument, just info (preferably cited)!

Well, clomid is a staple in every medically prescribed hpta restart protocol, nolva isnt.

 

[thebigt]

Well, clomid is a staple in every medically prescribed hpta restart protocol, nolva isnt.

some doctors even offer clomid as alternative to trt, especially for males trying to impregnate wives.

 

[thebigt]

Well, clomid is a staple in every medically prescribed hpta restart protocol, nolva isnt.

some doctors even offer clomid as alternative to trt, especially for males trying to impregnate wives.

 

[Whisky]

Yep @MrKleen73 got you covered there bro.

Personally I’d be giving it another month or two and retesting without any further serm use btw.....it takes time to fully recover and unless you have a pressing reason it would be better to not take more drugs to try and fix it quicker.

2-3 months post pct seems to be the minimum sort of time needed to get back to ‘baseline’ for most. All your stats indicate you just need more time. Avoid excessive cardio or cutting in that time as well

 

[blongo804]

Yep @MrKleen73 got you covered there bro.

Personally I’d be giving it another month or two and retesting without any further serm use btw.....it takes time to fully recover and unless you have a pressing reason it would be better to not take more drugs to try and fix it quicker.

2-3 months post pct seems to be the minimum sort of time needed to get back to ‘baseline’ for most. All your stats indicate you just need more time. Avoid excessive cardio or cutting in that time as well

I don't want to add in a drug to fix me, but I'd really like to get back to working asap. The limp dikk is no bueno.

Again, I greatly appreciate everyone's help and opinions. Clomid is on the way from PRE.

 

[jrock645]

I don't want to add in a drug to fix me, but I'd really like to get back to working asap. The limp dikk is no bueno.

Again, I greatly appreciate everyone's help and opinions. Clomid is on the way from PRE.

Sustain alpha is excellent for libido as well. I used it in my last pct and will continue to.

 

[thebigt]

Sustain alpha is excellent for libido as well. I used it in my last pct and will continue to.

I am not in pct but use it often for libido, but I guess when you are 60 like me, it's a continual pct, lol.

 

[blongo804]

Honestly I used Sustain Alpha for a few weeks during PCT and felt the effects like crazy for a week or two then it immediately died off for the next couple weeks. I have some left, might as well give it a go again.

 

[thebigt]

Honestly I used Sustain Alpha for a few weeks during PCT and felt the effects like crazy for a week or two then it immediately died off for the next couple weeks. I have some left, might as well give it a go again.

I run sustain for 3-4 months at a time...try doing 5 on 2 off, keeps me good!!!

 

[blongo804]

I run sustain for 3-4 months at a time...try doing 5 on 2 off, keeps me good!!!

I'll give it another go for sure. Might as well so the rest of the bottle doesn't go to waste. I'll try that protocol too!

 

[DR.D]

BigT is correct, stuff like Sustain (or even just a fat dose of Resveratrol before bed) helps short-term "libido" for many. But as you also noticed, it has to be cycled to remain effective, which is ok because it stimulates the estrogen sub-receptor you don't want to activate for too long anyway.

 

[MrKleen73]

How has it been shown to be better than Tamox? Not looking for an argument, just info (preferably cited)!

@Tsteele60 I did a lot of research to come across that information, and am not 100% sure where all I found it but I remember for sure it was a combination of studies, reviews and articles with references. However I have no clue any longer where I found the information specifically. That knowledge was accrued over a couple years of learning about SERMS and the differences between them trying to figure out what was best for me. However I imagine it might not be too hard for you to locate with some well worded searches.

Tamox was proven to be better at keeping estrogen from binding to breast tissue than clomid, that is actually the only reason it used to be used by bodybuilders was to stop gyno. Clomid on the other hand was shown to have a stronger effect on the HPTA, and is now being used for people as a substitution for TRT by some doctors due to it's success in increasing testosterone levels.

I would honestly share the studies and whatnot that I found this stuff in but it was years ago over a long period of reading about SERMS on different occasions and I just don't remember and didn't save them for future reference because I already gleaned the information I needed from them. So I hope you can find it if interested in looking. If you find evidence to the contrary while looking by all means please let me know.

 

[DR.D]

Kleen is correct, Clomid is believed to work directly on the hypothalamus, and it has always worked faster for me. I still prefer Toremifene, it possesses the best gonadotrophic effects of them all, but you gotta be a tough hombre to manage the emotionsl sides (it's even worse than Clomid!)

Basically, I'd only consider Tamoxifen if I'd been on one of the others for a month and not responded yet. Counter-productive Clomid metabolites can start to build up by then and Nolva could help you finish the job.

As far as Raloxifene , it never did much for me. I've tried Ormeloxifene too and it was decent, but hard to source.

 

[thebigt]

Kleen is correct, Clomid is believed to work directly on the hypothalamus, and it has always worked faster for me. I still prefer Toremifene, it possesses the best gonadotrophic effects of them all, but you gotta be a tough hombre to manage the emotionsl sides (it's even worse than Clomid!)

Basically, I'd only consider Tamoxifen if I'd been on one of the others for a month and not responded yet. Counter-productive Clomid metabolites can start to build up by then and Nolva could help you finish the job.

As far as Raloxifene , it never did much for me. I've tried Ormeloxifene too and it was decent, but hard to source.

toremifene was gaining popularity and was getting great feedback, then all of a sudden it kinda disappeared from the scene, you have any clue why this happened?

 

[DR.D]

Well, i know it was difficult for Eddie to source, so maybe it's just not very plentiful? Or maybe people don't use it because of how rough it can be mentally? It does work and works fast, but it's a good thing it does because you can't use a full amount too many days straight without risking the woman-like emotional lability. It makes PCT stands for pissy crappy time. lol

 

[Tsteele60]

Great info here, and thank you Kleen for taking the time to type that out. I had picked up some Tamox for pct of an 8 week cycle of 1 and 4 andro with some 3AD tossed in, and I’m wondering if that would be sufficient or if I should grab some clomid? Thanks everyone

 

[jrock645]

Great info here, and thank you Kleen for taking the one to type that out. I had picked up some Tamox for pct of an 8 week cycle of 1 and 4 andro with some 3AD tossed in, and I’m wondering if that would be sufficient or if I should grab some clomid? Thanks everyone

Prob fine. Those arent really harsh compounds. I always use nolva and clomid together in pct personally. I think youl prob recover fine, just make aure to get bloodwork to know for sure.

 

[blongo804]

The info in this thread is even more than I had hoped for so I really appreciate the extra insight here! I didn't initially realize the exact differences between nolva and clomid.

I've successfully recovered from a DMZ solo cycle using only nolva, but perhaps from a stronger cycle like my last DMZ + trest cycle, clomid might've got me back to full condition again quicker.

 

[Beau]

I am not in pct but use it often for libido, but I guess when you are 60 like me, it's a continual pct, lol.

How does clomid impact your libido?

I've used it periodically. In one case, it shut down libido (and I wasn't too pleased).

 

[jrock645]

How does clomid impact your libido?

I've used it periodically. In one case, it shut down libido (and I wasn't too pleased).

What dosage and for how long?

 

[Beau]

What dosage and for how long?

I have run it at both 25mg EOD and 12.5mg EOD. I believe the 25mg was what killed me. Re how long - with 12.5mg it was about a month, maybe slightly less than that with 25mg - because I noticed such a waning of interest and that had not ever been the case before.

 

[thebigt]

How does clomid impact your libido?

I've used it periodically. In one case, it shut down libido (and I wasn't too pleased).

less is best...

 

[Beau]

less is best...

Maybe I will try 12.5mg every third day (i.e., Monday, Thursday, Sunday, Wednesday ...)

 

[Mathb33]

Well, i know it was difficult for Eddie to source, so maybe it's just not very plentiful? Or maybe people don't use it because of how rough it can be mentally? It does work and works fast, but it's a good thing it does because you can't use a full amount too many days straight without risking the woman-like emotional lability. It makes PCT stands for pissy crappy time. lol

Sounds like you’re talking about clomid and not torem lol. Torem tough mentally and emotionally, what??? Torem was gaining popularity because it did not have such effects compared to clomid

 

[DR.D]

Sounds like you’re talking about clomid and not torem lol. Torem tough mentally and emotionally, what??? Torem was gaining popularity because it did not have such effects compared to clomid

Like anything growing in popularity, shady suppliers and vendors (test them!) have been know to jump on the bandwagon selling bunk material, like maybe Tam instead or Torem? Indeed, 60mg of Tam is very effective, and although it is probably the most toxic i don't ever remember significant sides from it. It might easily fool someone who was otherwise naive about the compound.

Or, maybe it's just me and I'm a Torem wuss.

 

[blongo804]

Just want to pop in and say it's been about 2.5 weeks at 25mg clomid Ed, and I'm feeling much different. Kind of livelier, more gym aggression, way better libido. No drastic emotional sides.

I'll probably stick with the 4 week, 25mg/ed plan and call it a day. I'll get blood work again maybe 2 months after I stop.

 

[thebigt]

Just want to pop in and say it's been about 2.5 weeks at 25mg clomid Ed, and I'm feeling much different. Kind of livelier, more gym aggression, way better libido. No drastic emotional sides.

I'll probably stick with the 4 week, 25mg/ed plan and call it a day. I'll get blood work again maybe 2 months after I stop.

glad to hear things are working out for you.

 

[AndroRage]

Kleen is correct, Clomid is believed to work directly on the hypothalamus, and it has always worked faster for me. I still prefer Toremifene, it possesses the best gonadotrophic effects of them all, but you gotta be a tough hombre to manage the emotionsl sides (it's even worse than Clomid!)

Basically, I'd only consider Tamoxifen if I'd been on one of the others for a month and not responded yet. Counter-productive Clomid metabolites can start to build up by then and Nolva could help you finish the job.

As far as Raloxifene , it never did much for me. I've tried Ormeloxifene too and it was decent, but hard to source.

If someone has been on quite a suppressive cycle, what do you feel would be the optimal amount of Clomid? 50mg for 2 weeks then 25mg for a further 4 weeks?

Thanks

 

[AndroRage]

@Tsteele60 I did a lot of research to come across that information, and am not 100% sure where all I found it but I remember for sure it was a combination of studies, reviews and articles with references. However I have no clue any longer where I found the information specifically. That knowledge was accrued over a couple years of learning about SERMS and the differences between them trying to figure out what was best for me. However I imagine it might not be too hard for you to locate with some well worded searches.

Tamox was proven to be better at keeping estrogen from binding to breast tissue than clomid, that is actually the only reason it used to be used by bodybuilders was to stop gyno. Clomid on the other hand was shown to have a stronger effect on the HPTA, and is now being used for people as a substitution for TRT by some doctors due to it's success in increasing testosterone levels.

I would honestly share the studies and whatnot that I found this stuff in but it was years ago over a long period of reading about SERMS on different occasions and I just don't remember and didn't save them for future reference because I already gleaned the information I needed from them. So I hope you can find it if interested in looking. If you find evidence to the contrary while looking by all means please let me know.

What do you believe to be the optimal amount of Clomid for a highly suppressive cycle? 50mg for 2 weeks, then 25mg for a further 4 weeks? Thanks

 

[MrKleen73]

I honestly have not seen anywhere other than these types of boards recommending anything over 25mg a day. A lot of times the higher dose is better mentality is prevalent on these types of boards so doses climb even when certain things do not ever need high doses. You get much over 25mg and you can experience sides without much of any improvement in efficacy. If anything I would increase the length of the clomid run by a couple weeks over increasing the dose. That is just a personal preference and opinion there.

I think getting some of the other hormones back in check can help recovery from some harsher things as well. Like 19nors are hard to recover from but if you get your prolactin levels back in normal range too then you will feel much better and sexual at lower levels of test like in PCT. I don't have a study to point to on that, just basic knowledge of the concepts leads me to that conclusion, and having addressed prolactin levels while test was lower before still had a nice effect on my libido and natural aggression levels.

 

[CroLifter]

First of all, i second sensible advice to not go over 25mg clomid per day. It is enough, i am recovering and have recovered well on that dose. I would use some aromasin to keep e2 on the lower end. Physicians usually prescribe 25mg per day for secondary hypogonadism.

Dont get me wrong, think i am rude etc, but i think that you have not recovered well. My total test was 426ng/dl just at the start of pct and last shot of hcg was a month prior to that (was pinning "trt" dose of completely bunk test, realized what was going on with brain fog, lack of energy and decided it is time to come off anyway).

25mg clomiphene per day, 12.5mg aromasin occasionally as needed (i started ed and now do it eod), increase fat intake, liquid (prescription grade) vitamin d3 if you are not tanning regularly, and the regulars (vitamin c, zinc, magnesium...).
You can throw and anecdotally proven natural test booster too if you want. You can take a look at one containing l dopa if prolactin is an issue amd you dont want to keep using dopamine agonists.
Do not restrict calories in this period.

This is what i am currently doing and 8 days into this regimen (barring test booster, yet to arrive) focus and motivation are back, libido is good, strength is slowly improving. I still get lethargic at times but no wonder after being ON for 5 months and only 2 weeks of hcg out that.

And dont forget to run hcg throughout your next cycle. I am so pissed at myself for not doing it throughout.

 

[MrKleen73]

First of all, i second sensible advice to not go over 25mg clomid per day. It is enough, i am and have recovered well on that dose. I would use some aromasin to keep e2 on the lower end. Physicians usually prescribe 25mg per day for secondary hypogonadism.

Dont get me wrong, think i am rude etc, but i think that you have not recovered well. My total test was 426ng/dl just at the start of pct and last shot of hcg was a month prior to that (was pinning "trt" dose of completely bunk test, realized what was going on with brain fog, lack of energy and decided it is time to come off anyway).

25mg clomiphene per day, 12.5mg aromasin occasionally as needed (i started ed and now do it eod), increase fat intake, liquid (prescription grade) vitamin d3 if you are not tanning regularly, and the regulars (vitamin c, zinc, magnesium...).
You can throw and anecdotally proven natural test booster too if you want. You can take a look at one containing l dopa if prolactin is an issue amd you dont want to keep using dopamine agonists.
Do not restrict calories in this period.

This is what i am currently doing and 8 days into this regimen (barring test booster, yet to arrive) focus and motivation are back, libido is good, strength is slowly improving. I still get lethargic at times but no wonder after being ON for 5 months and only 2 weeks of hcg out that.

If I am reading this correctly. You realized you were taking bunk TRT dose of test, and started your PCT from the bunk test @426, you probably were not really suppressed. If the Test was bunk then the 426 is probably, or was probably your baseline. If you felt you needed TRT originally then it would make sense having lower normal ranges. You may have been able to improve this number from secondary hypogonadism with the clomid and aromasin alone which would explain you feeling better now.

Curious what your numbers are now, as well as if you are able to maintain them on your own once the SERMS are out of the picture. Also keep in mind 25mg of Clomid is also being used for TRT with people getting some high normal range numbers. So that is also a consideration, especially if you can get your doctor to prescribe it so it is cheaper and better quality. They make generic clomiphene for dirt cheap.

 

[CroLifter]

If I am reading this correctly. You realized you were taking bunk TRT dose of test, and started your PCT from the bunk test @426, you probably were not really suppressed. If the Test was bunk then the 426 is probably, or was probably your baseline. If you felt you needed TRT originally then it would make sense having lower normal ranges. You may have been able to improve this number from secondary hypogonadism with the clomid and aromasin alone which would explain you feeling better now.

Curious what your numbers are now, as well as if you are able to maintain them on your own once the SERMS are out of the picture. Also keep in mind 25mg of Clomid is also being used for TRT with people getting some high normal range numbers. So that is also a consideration, especially if you can get your doctor to prescribe it so it is cheaper and better quality. They make generic clomiphene for dirt cheap.

I was blasting real test (my personal homebrew, weighed and filtered by me) from march to mid june. Came down to trt dose of underdosed test, was not feeling real good. Then my last batch (both underdosed and bunk were "pharma" test amps, yes, real amps that were being sold in the pharmacy, but the pharmaceutical company was in financial issues at the time when my batch was produced, icn galenika, notorious for being underdosed).
No way 426 was my baseline i felt like death for few days. 0 motivation, energy, feeling like passing out.

I am planning to test my numbers gaain few weeks into clomid of course. I am planning to taper clomid (as i usually do) and also as the taper begins add a natty booster.

@blongo804 how old are you? I am 22 so that definitely makes recovery easier.
But i am not cycling without hcg throughout anymore.

 

[MrKleen73]

I was blasting real test (my personal homebrew, weighed and filtered by me) from march to mid june. Came down to trt dose of underdosed test, was not feeling real good. Then my last batch (both underdosed and bunk were "pharma" test amps, yes, real amps that were being sold in the pharmacy, but the pharmaceutical company was in financial issues at the time when my batch was produced, icn galenika, notorious for being underdosed).
No way 426 was my baseline i felt like death for few days. 0 motivation, energy, feeling like passing out.

I am planning to test my numbers gaain few weeks into clomid of course. I am planning to taper clomid (as i usually do) and also as the taper begins add a natty booster.

@blongo804 how old are you? I am 22 so that definitely makes recovery easier.
But i am not cycling without hcg throughout anymore.

Cool thanks for responding and not taking offense to the question. So you were kind of doing a cruise and blast but got screwed on the cruise portion eh... bummer but much better for you at your age to just run the hcg if you are going to pin than doing a cruise blast situation unless you have amazing genetics and intend to go pro or something.

 

[CroLifter]

Cool thanks for responding and not taking offense to the question. So you were kind of doing a cruise and blast but got screwed on the cruise portion eh... bummer but much better for you at your age to just run the hcg if you are going to pin than doing a cruise blast situation unless you have amazing genetics and intend to go pro or something.

Man i lost a good portion of gains because of the bunk test. I am only starting to recover lost strength.

And exactly! No point in hammering myself into the ground with tons of drugs, i am not going to become a pro anyitme soon lol.

One sensible cycle per year max for me, with hcg throughout, just before beach season lol.

 

[DR.D]

If someone has been on quite a suppressive cycle, what do you feel would be the optimal amount of Clomid? 50mg for 2 weeks then 25mg for a further 4 weeks?

Thanks

In the past, after long 6-9 month highly-suppressive cycles, I've waited 2-3wks into "PCT" to even start a SERM. I say PCT in quotes because I might still be running a short acting oral for another 1-2wks at that point, so more like a pre-PCT. No dose of any SERM seems to work at hormonal restoration until the majority of esters have cleared, and an oral stacked with creatine helps bridge the gap until you shift into true PCT. Then I'd front-load Clomid at 150mg/d (or Tor 120mg/d) for about 3 days, then taper the dose to be at 25mg/d (20mg/d Tor) by the 4th wk. If still suppressed, I wouldn't milk it. Take a few weeks off and try repeating and that'll usually do it.

I'm not crazy like that anymore, gotten too old for that crap, but long cycles have to be PCTed differently that 4-6wk oral only cycles, or short-ester cycles, which are generally much easier to bounce back from.

 

[BBiceps]

In the past, after long 6-9 month highly-suppressive cycles, I've waited 2-3wks into "PCT" to even start a SERM. I say PCT in quotes because I might still be running a short acting oral for another 1-2wks at that point, so more like a pre-PCT. No dose of any SERM seems to work at hormonal restoration until the majority of esters have cleared, and an oral stacked with creatine helps bridge the gap until you shift into true PCT. Then I'd front-load Clomid at 150mg/d (or Tor 120mg/d) for about 3 days, then taper the dose to be at 25mg/d (20mg/d Tor) by the 4th wk. If still suppressed, I wouldn't milk it. Take a few weeks off and try repeating and that'll usually do it.

I'm not crazy like that anymore, gotten too old for that crap, but long cycles have to be PCTed differently that 4-6wk oral only cycles, or short-ester cycles, which are generally much easier to bounce back from.

Idk how much of a Dr you are, I seen other posts you made and you made a lot of sense but 150mg ed of Clomid makes no sense. No wonder ppl get sides from Clomid if they use that high amount.

 

[CroLifter]

Idk how much of a Dr you are, I seen other posts you made and you made a lot of sense but 150mg ed of Clomid makes no sense. No wonder ppl get sides from Clomid if they use that high amount.

I am on pct 25 mg clomid per day and am slightly depressed, especially in the evening, as test levels hit bottom i guess.

So it could be clomid or it could be low test and poor test to e2 ratio we have in pct.

 

[jrock645]

Idk how much of a Dr you are, I seen other posts you made and you made a lot of sense but 150mg ed of Clomid makes no sense. No wonder ppl get sides from Clomid if they use that high amount.

He said he only frontloads a high dose like that for 3 days. I usually do 100mg for 3 days.

 

[BBiceps]

I am on pct 25 mg clomid per day and am slightly depressed, especially in the evening, as test levels hit bottom i guess.

So it could be clomid or it could be low test and poor test to e2 ratio we have in pct.

Idk, maybe high estro could cause you feel depressed or it could be that your not on cycle anymore. I feel great on 25mg Clomid but my last blood test showed slightly high estro, low 50’s, but my test was 1100 so that was probably why since I’m in the low 20’s normally.

 

[BBiceps]

He said he only frontloads a high dose like that for 3 days. I usually do 100mg for 3 days.

Yes, he said he tapers from 150mg until the 4th week where he starts 25mg, that’s a lot of Clomid, and I guess he can do what ever he wants, I think it’s a waste. I see no reason to go over 50mg and 25mg is completely fine.

Btw I restarted myself after 3.5 years of TRT so I speak from experience.

 

[CroLifter]

Always need to get labs before messing with e2.

found that out the hard way,

 

[BBiceps]

Always need to get labs before messing with e2.

found that out the hard way,

Correct