Better gains: Superdrol vs Epistane(Havoc)?
- Thread starter Eightpak
- Start date
TripDog
Bananas
dont bother with epi.......over-hyped.....good on a test cycle to help with estro sides,but as a stand alone isn't your best option
redrain
New member
TripDog
Bananas
yes superdrol 10x over epi..........i dont know many people that didn't gain nicely on sd....you can pm me if you need any further help...how to run it,support sups,post cycle..etc
hman85
Well-known member
Maybe for you man not everyone is that lucky
fritzer
Active member
superdrol gave great gains but at 30mg you wake up an want to go back to bed. on epi you wake up and want to go workout. On superdrol after 3 sets i was so damn tired and lethargic, on epi after a whole workout i am like hmmm maybe i will do calves today too
personally i would sacrifice some gains to feel good and get that on feeling. in my PP/SD cycle i thought i could die at any moment because of how supedrol made me feel... but thats just me
personally i would sacrifice some gains to feel good and get that on feeling. in my PP/SD cycle i thought i could die at any moment because of how supedrol made me feel... but thats just me
klugman
Member
I have used both Superdrol and Havoc.
I got MASSIVE back pumps on Superdrol just moving my monitor at work.
Supposedly Taurine helps with that...I didn't preload I only took it once the back pumps started. Didn't seem to do anything.
Havoc didn't cause any back pumps. I only used 30mg max of Havoc too compared to just 20mg of superdrol on my last week.
I got MASSIVE back pumps on Superdrol just moving my monitor at work.
Supposedly Taurine helps with that...I didn't preload I only took it once the back pumps started. Didn't seem to do anything.
Havoc didn't cause any back pumps. I only used 30mg max of Havoc too compared to just 20mg of superdrol on my last week.
hurdlemaker
Well-known member
superdrol, not even a fair comparison. I would say epistane is closer to massfx than to superdrol. Ive taken both. The superdrol was alone and the epistane was with test. Superdrol gave way more strength, and about the size gains for me, and a lot of the size on the epistane was probably from the test...
fritzer
Active member
I am testing Epithin-E. Superdrol makes you lethargic and tired, gains are good but sides are horrific at times. Epithin-E/Epi/Havoc makes you feel like you can workout right after a workout, feel so energized, and you can run it higher at like 50mg/day since it is not as harsh as superdrol. so if you have done 30mg/day SD... and you try 50mg Epi man you are going to switch over like i did. Add the anti-gyno effects and you are golden. BUT do 30mg/EPI and try to compare to SD gains, then ofcourse SD is gonna win, it is freaking masteron!
HahaTom 185
Well-known member
well for me...
20mg superdrol for 3 weeks= 12-15 lbs
50mg epistane for 8 weeks= 2-3 lbs
no bodyfat change
Tom 185
Well-known member
dhea doesn't help with lethargy..ull need test, stims or 4ad
klugman
Member
Ronnie
Member
Hmmm I was just doing as Tripdog recommended. No lethargy to report yet.:ntome:
Tom 185
Well-known member
yes they were both ran with the same amount of test
browndustin
Member
Well I exhausted a bottle of Havoc and it was really nice. Definitely no where near as powerful as Superdrol, but that's a given with it's androgenicity. I haven't really tried anything that compares to SD, but the sh*t's a damn poison.
I never ran Havoc over 30mg on workout days and 20mg on off days, but next time around I'm going to run it a lot higher. Little to no lethargy, no fat gains (I swear, SD puts FAT on you), modest strength gains, libido didn't get screwed up, etc. I think it's a great mild steroid. I have no complaints.
Gonna get some blood work and see how my lipids are doing. I feel great right now and felt great wrapping up the Havoc cycle. After SD, I seriously felt like I was dying. I think I was even getting jaundice. Yikes. Never again.
I never ran Havoc over 30mg on workout days and 20mg on off days, but next time around I'm going to run it a lot higher. Little to no lethargy, no fat gains (I swear, SD puts FAT on you), modest strength gains, libido didn't get screwed up, etc. I think it's a great mild steroid. I have no complaints.
Gonna get some blood work and see how my lipids are doing. I feel great right now and felt great wrapping up the Havoc cycle. After SD, I seriously felt like I was dying. I think I was even getting jaundice. Yikes. Never again.
Eightpak
Member
What kind of gains did you make on havoc?
dirtydean12
Member
my epidrol cycle went pretty smoothly, nice recomp effect with some noticeable strength gains.
just started my phera/sd cycle so we'll see how sd works out for me. i've done phera before and felt great, i'm just anxious about sd.
just started my phera/sd cycle so we'll see how sd works out for me. i've done phera before and felt great, i'm just anxious about sd.
Movin_weight
Active member
SD hands down is the stronger compound and the gains are more explosive, at least the original AX was
I also felt havoc was alot more potent than epistane (used Epithin-E) but i also had more sides and felt more shutdown coming off havoc
I also felt havoc was alot more potent than epistane (used Epithin-E) but i also had more sides and felt more shutdown coming off havoc
klugman
Member
I would run superdrol for 3 weeks and then run havoc for 3-4 depending on how you feel. I know I felt FANTASTIC on havoc.
I ran AX perfect cycle for entire cycle and PCT.
beebab
Member
i say Superdrol standalone is sufficient enough for an oral cycle. if you're running legit Superdrol your gains... and sides will be substantial enough so I don't see the need to stack it or follow it up with yet another prohormone. a nice 3 weeker of Superdrol, with a proper post cycle therapy, followed by about a 2 month break, then another cycle of whatever is the best way to go IMO
beebab
Member
i've always been under the impression that Havoc was harsher than Epi, but I've never run either to be sure on this. i'm guessing that Epi would qualify the same?
Movin_weight
Active member
i felt havoc was stronger to be honast (than epistane no superdrol)... i gained like 12lbs on havoc stacked with winztrol, gained some fat too but strength increases were signficant as well
Epithin E plus trenadrol gave a decent recomp effect, but i definately did not feel the same kick as with havoc... maybe it's the clone, but i was under the impression that epithin-E was a direct clone of IBE's epistane
Epithin E plus trenadrol gave a decent recomp effect, but i definately did not feel the same kick as with havoc... maybe it's the clone, but i was under the impression that epithin-E was a direct clone of IBE's epistane
Musclefever
Member
if someon dose havoc at 30-30-40-40 the results after pct will be pretty equal so...
St1ff
New member
SD gave me way better gains, but it's hard for me to compare them since I ran Epistane on a cut. Epistane made my strength go through the roof while cutting calories.
I also haven't ran SD solo, used it with Pheraplex and on my Epistane cycle i ran it with Winnidrol....
I just can't imagine Epistane on a bulk and combined with anything could give results like a good old fashion SD/PP cycle.
I also haven't ran SD solo, used it with Pheraplex and on my Epistane cycle i ran it with Winnidrol....
I just can't imagine Epistane on a bulk and combined with anything could give results like a good old fashion SD/PP cycle.
Gtarzan81
Well-known member
I'm ending the second week of a 6 weeker on a PP/SD pulse. Been taking pp pre workout, and I'm ready to rock. Get great workouts! Taking SD post w/o and the lethargy sets in. I think I need to up the carbs. Makes me want to eat everything in sight though. I mean, they would throw me outta a buffet....hey....anyone up for chinese?
Tech9
New member
Did an epi cycle myself last year, 8 weeks (most recommend 3/4 but a friend of mine had good results from the same protocol.)
To be blunt, dramatic physical changes took place, leaned out and looked solid. Strength was up quite nicely, gained 15lbs - all but 2lbs kept after PCT. Unfortunatly, got the flu and this knocked all training and diet on the head for three weeks or so and I lost a further 7lbs.
Experiences - BP was a lot higher than usual, experiened one nose bleed in week 8 which was fairly heavy and actually quite scary. Back pumps were mild and only occasional, cramping in my right tricep (despite Taurine use througout) and some lethargy.
However, training/eating was less than perfect. As I remember I was putting some serious hours in at work, some night shifts which played games with my bodyclock which changed my eating pattern.
I plan on a 6/7 week cycle in Feb, with a solid diet and minimal hickups I think this compound has a lot of potential.
To be blunt, dramatic physical changes took place, leaned out and looked solid. Strength was up quite nicely, gained 15lbs - all but 2lbs kept after PCT. Unfortunatly, got the flu and this knocked all training and diet on the head for three weeks or so and I lost a further 7lbs.
Experiences - BP was a lot higher than usual, experiened one nose bleed in week 8 which was fairly heavy and actually quite scary. Back pumps were mild and only occasional, cramping in my right tricep (despite Taurine use througout) and some lethargy.
However, training/eating was less than perfect. As I remember I was putting some serious hours in at work, some night shifts which played games with my bodyclock which changed my eating pattern.
I plan on a 6/7 week cycle in Feb, with a solid diet and minimal hickups I think this compound has a lot of potential.
antodrol
New member
Why? I feel amazing on SD. Libido is UP,"bed-stamina" is great.
I felt the same problem as you when I no stack SD with a pure DHT based drugs, like m5aa. 20/30mg SD plus 30mg m5aa, and enjoy.
ImJ2x
Well-known member
I haven't tried epi (so I didn't vote), but I love my Superdrol. After 6 weeks of pulsing 20mg SD in a 3on/4off "micro-cycle," my strength and LBM are way up, no back pumps or lethargy, appetite is through the roof, libido is fine (after my 3rd or 4th "off" day, I seem to get that HPTA "bounceback," and my libido actually shoots up), and my hair isn't falling out. The only sides I experienced were itchy nips (but no lumps) and pimples all over my chest/stomach. They both occurred when I added 100mg DHEA in week 3, and both disappeared when I dropped the DHEA.
neoborn
Well-known member
To be honest from what I have read, this is like comparing tylenol with morphine, beer with JD, marijuana and heroin, a hyundai pony against a Lamborghini Countach etc etc
Yes Epistane is a good product and will bring reliable steady gains but it's not in the same league ( or with the same sides ) as SuperDuperDrol or M1T :toofunny:
LOL great poll.
Yes Epistane is a good product and will bring reliable steady gains but it's not in the same league ( or with the same sides ) as SuperDuperDrol or M1T :toofunny:
LOL great poll.
Schism
Banned
Yes, go to delete subscriptions and check the ones you want to get rid of.
hman85
Well-known member
Thanks! But i don't see that where is it?
Schism
Banned
Are you fcukin with me??? lol..
It's at the bottom of the page on your User CP were it says select threads/move to folder. Just select the threads you want gone and go to delete.....
TripDog
Bananas
Because of the poll...if someone votes
thundergod
Well-known member
Hey antodrol-- Do you just take the M-5AA only on workout days pre-workout? This is the way I see most taking it. Or do you take it everyday?
antodrol
New member
every day and split my dose during the day to maintain a steady plasma level...I think the alflife is around 3 or 6 hours. in this way I've seen a better strengh gain (I've tried, also, the same dose only prewo...no good imho)
wheycasein
New member
I did PM, but anyway I just realised that you said how much test you used.
So how did you run 850mg a week and gain 2/3 with epi pounds!?!?!? Thats crazy isn't it? Or is your body need more test to really grow now?
thundergod
Well-known member
Well, this thread de-volved from being about the gains versus one over the other into worst sides one versus the other. Kinda like we all knew it would. I have a theory about all these sides everyone seems to report on superdrol. It's might be what I call "placebo sides". Now don't laugh, listen for a second. You keep reading these long lists of the same sides over and over, and then when you start the compound it's like " uh-oh, here are those sides everyone was telling me about". They seem to notice sides before gains. Whereas in vida (real-life scenario), I think you would see gains before sides. I've never had any problems with running superdrol, and I've ran it 5 times. Getting ready for a sixth cycle in the Spring. Anyways, something for you guys to ponder on. Odin Bless You All!!!:wave:
larue38462
Member
Do any of you guys know anything about black dragon labs sd clone? I had awesome success with epi on my first two cycles at 30/40/40/40/40, but I ran the sd at 20 for 2 wks and got nothing but lethargy. I bumped up to 30 for wk 3 and felt so bad I couldn't complete any kind of decent workout. Strength never did much and basically felt like sh## the whole time. Went into PCT and came out 4 wks later feeling great. seems weird to me with all the good stuff i read bout sd.
