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Best workout routine with Natty stacks

jsm1289

New member
Hey everyone, I am a few days away from starting a testfiy stack plus erase pro+ agmatine. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to the best type of workout routine when on a cycle of this nature. Obviously no one size fits all, but have people had better or worse results with things like more volume, maybe DC, low rep schemes etc. Right now I am doing the following, taken from Ironaddicts.com. I would just like to know if there is anything one should adjust with regards to the specific routine when on cycle? Thanks!


current routine
Monday
Squat or box squat 2-3 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Wednesday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

Friday
Deadlift or rack deadlift 2-3 x 5
Leg press 2 x 10
Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Monday
Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10 Monday
 
To put it very simply, if you're basing your exercise program around your supplement stack, you are doing something terribly wrong. That said, your routine looks very solid. Just be sure to incorporate basic periodization and progressive overload.
 
Heavy!enough said.
 
Rodja said:
This doesn't have any particular meaning.

OP, what are you hoping to accomplish? Strength, size, recomp, etc.?
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Ok,maybe not.I seem to do good lifting heavy when I'm on a natty stack,obviously it's much easier than when I'm not.I wasn't giving a layout!Thank you for pointing that out though :)
 
jsm1289 said:
I'm going for a bulk with strength and size being the primary goals. thanks
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The program you have laid out is one of the many permutations of the conjugate system aka Westside, but it has been altered to exclude the dynamic work. As is, it is decent, but you'll need more variety for the first movement for each day and I do not recommend doing a heavy pull and a heavy squat in the same week. It will be very difficult for the erectors to fully recover and could result in an overuse injury.
 
Rodja said:
The program you have laid out is one of the many permutations of the conjugate system aka Westside, but it has been altered to exclude the dynamic work. As is, it is decent, but you'll need more variety for the first movement for each day and I do not recommend doing a heavy pull and a heavy squat in the same week. It will be very difficult for the erectors to fully recover and could result in an overuse injury.
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Very interesting stance on erectors. . . can't say I agree myself, but what makes you think of all the muscles, they will be the issue? Many people pull/squat in the same week (Westside, 5/3/1, etc...). Just curious what your basing this on. Some people will actually pull/squat in the same day (I.E. Layne Norton) and have seen some of their best progress ever. It's all about context.
 
DaveGabe24 said:
Very interesting stance on erectors. . . can't say I agree myself, but what makes you think of all the muscles, they will be the issue? Many people pull/squat in the same week (Westside, 5/3/1, etc...). Just curious what your basing this on. Some people will actually pull/squat in the same day (I.E. Layne Norton) and have seen some of their best progress ever. It's all about context.
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Westside does not both squat and pull heavy in the same week. There is a ME day that is close or exceeds 100% and a DE day that is closer to 50-60%. 5/3/1 will have you doing both in the same week at a high percentage only 1x/month with the other weeks being much lighter on the percentage scale. The erectors will most likely become an issue with this because of the high frequency of high percentage work, a lack of higher rotation of the ME work, and no direct erector training.
 
Rodja said:
Westside does not both squat and pull heavy in the same week. There is a ME day that is close or exceeds 100% and a DE day that is closer to 50-60%. 5/3/1 will have you doing both in the same week at a high percentage only 1x/month with the other weeks being much lighter on the percentage scale. The erectors will most likely become an issue with this because of the high frequency of high percentage work, a lack of higher rotation of the ME work, and no direct erector training.
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They would become an issue if you have some sort of inherent weakness, but in my opinion they will adapt similar to any other weakness. Still not sure of any concrete information that would suggest your point. Not saying you're wrong, there's just such a large body of lifters doing exactly that, and yet erectors do not seem to be a common injury.
 
DaveGabe24 said:
They would become an issue if you have some sort of inherent weakness, but in my opinion they will adapt similar to any other weakness. Still not sure of any concrete information that would suggest your point. Not saying you're wrong, there's just such a large body of lifters doing exactly that, and yet erectors do not seem to be a common injury.
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There is not a large volume of lifters doing both squats and deadlifts in the 85-95% in the same week on a consistent base. The three examples that you provided (Westside, 5/3/1, and PHAT) do not do this either.
 
Rodja said:
There is not a large volume of lifters doing both squats and deadlifts in the 85-95% in the same week on a consistent base. The three examples that you provided (Westside, 5/3/1, and PHAT) do not do this either.
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I guess we'll agree to disagree. I've done near max pulling/squatting on a weekly basis for a looonggg time, and if you check out the pro powerlifters many of them do similar. Of course it may be with bands/chains, but its still near maximal effort work. Many of the more popular routines, I suppose you are right, they shy away from having less developed lifters do that kind of work.
 
DaveGabe24 said:
I guess we'll agree to disagree. I've done near max pulling/squatting on a weekly basis for a looonggg time, and if you check out the pro powerlifters many of them do similar. Of course it may be with bands/chains, but its still near maximal effort work. Many of the more popular routines, I suppose you are right, they shy away from having less developed lifters do that kind of work.
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I've looked at the training logs of many pro PL'ers and train with one as well. Like I said, I have yet to see them consistently train BOTH of them in the same week at a high percentage. I've followed the logs of Bell, Carroll, Schwab, Jordan, etc. and they all seldom, if ever, squat and deadlift heavy in the same week and they sure as hell don't have (essentially) two ME days for lower-body in the same week. Not to mention the fact that they're all geared lifters in both senses of the word. That completely changes the equation.
 
Rodja said:
I've looked at the training logs of many pro PL'ers and train with one as well. Like I said, I have yet to see them consistently train BOTH of them in the same week at a high percentage. I've followed the logs of Bell, Carroll, Schwab, Jordan, etc. and they all seldom, if ever, squat and deadlift heavy in the same week and they sure as hell don't have (essentially) two ME days for lower-body in the same week. Not to mention the fact that they're all geared lifters in both senses of the word. That completely changes the equation.
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As I said, we'll agree to disagree. I just check 6 logs, and 5 of them had a version of heavy/pull squat in the same week. Whether it was raw, gear, bands, chains, etc. This has nothing to do with OP, so no point arguing any further.
 
DaveGabe24 said:
WBB forums...have other things than to go back and find links for you, sorry.
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Westside's forum is down and their template does not have a lifter doing heavy squats and deadlifts on two days during the same week. I think you're not understanding what I'm saying at all. As written, the OP would be doing two days of a heavy squat and a heavy pull in the same week, which is far from anything that Westside promotes.
 
DaveGabe24 said:
I guess we'll agree to disagree. I've done near max pulling/squatting on a weekly basis for a looonggg time, and if you check out the pro powerlifters many of them do similar. Of course it may be with bands/chains, but its still near maximal effort work. Many of the more popular routines, I suppose you are right, they shy away from having less developed lifters do that kind of work.
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That is odd...I train with 2 National Raw champs and we use Westside and never have we been pulling or pushing (squat or dead) at max loads BOTH in the same week...well once ever 3 or so weeks...but never do it EVERY single week...I'm with Rodja on this one too :/
 
mr.cooper69 said:
To put it very simply, if you're basing your exercise program around your supplement stack, you are doing something terribly wrong. That said, your routine looks very solid. Just be sure to incorporate basic periodization and progressive overload.
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I would certainly agree with this. How you should be approaching your training is finding a way that supplements will help improve or boost what you are already doing. Essentially, you should be basing your supplementation around your training, not your training around your supplementation. ;)

Cheers!:cheers:

-Sean-
 
Celorza said:
That is odd...I train with 2 National Raw champs and we use Westside and never have we been pulling or pushing (squat or dead) at max loads BOTH in the same week...well once ever 3 or so weeks...but never do it EVERY single week...I'm with Rodja on this one too :/
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To be honest, unless you're at Westside, you're not doing Westside. The trickled down info on the webs or what guys do on their own, is usually just a bastardized version. Ask Travis Bell, or anyone whos actually trained with Louie. I agree, thats not the generic Westside we see, but my point was, if you're doing band/chain work that it's the same in my opinion (with regards to strain on the erectors).
 
Listen to Rodja, I've been running west side for the last 3 months and my gains have gone through the roof. There's also something to be said about the novelty factor of rotating exercises, and speed work done property has definitely contributed to bigger numbers in the big three.
 
DaveGabe24 said:
To be honest, unless you're at Westside, you're not doing Westside. The trickled down info on the webs or what guys do on their own, is usually just a bastardized version. Ask Travis Bell, or anyone whos actually trained with Louie. I agree, thats not the generic Westside we see, but my point was, if you're doing band/chain work that it's the same in my opinion (with regards to strain on the erectors).
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Except for the fact that I train with a guy that has been to Westside on multiple occasions. Westside is a philosophy with basic guidelines, but it is not static. The tools and techniques that they use are constantly changing (as any good coach should) yet the same principles from the basic template are the same.
 
DaveGabe24 said:
To be honest, unless you're at Westside, you're not doing Westside.
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Rodja said:
Westside is a philosophy with basic guidelines, but it is not static. The tools and techniques that they use are constantly changing (as any good coach should) yet the same principles from the basic template are the same.
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Yup I believe the Personal Trainer with years of experience, a myriad of knowledge and well written articles ;)!
 
Idk what to tell you. Perhaps I overstepped saying the majority of people are doing it...but to state it like its fact is silly imo. Layne's had pull/squats in the same session...from a routine Dr. Zourdos has derived. So that's why I'm saying let's agree to disagree because although it may not be par for the course, it can be done.
 
DaveGabe24 said:
Idk what to tell you. Perhaps I overstepped saying the majority of people are doing it...but to state it like its fact is silly imo. Layne's had pull/squats in the same session...from a routine Dr. Zourdos has derived. So that's why I'm saying let's agree to disagree because although it may not be par for the course, it can be done.
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That's not what I'm talking about at all. Like I said, I'm fairly sure that you completely misunderstood what I'm saying.
 
Rodja said:
What I said was that it is a bad idea to squat and pull heavy twice in the same week per the proposed template.
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That's reasonable. Not to mention you're going to be limiting yourself to the recruitment of specific muscle fibers, and recruitment of certain parts of your CNS.
 
Some good info in here.
 
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