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Best PCT I've ever had!!!

muscles4life

Member
I did a five week E-Max cycle, I went from 245 lbs to 249 lbs@ 5' 11", but got leaner and strong as hell. Now I'm on 16 days into PCT(I know thats not that long) and I'm up to 253 lbs and looking bigger then ever and not any fatter. I also put about 15 more lbs on my bench press(now up to 520 lbs RAW). My arms even grew another 1/4 inch. For the first time ever I'm NOT taking Nolva for PCT. I'm taking RXT, Activate and Fenugreek. I'm also taking CM, ALCAR, Taurine and Lot's of Flax oil. I ussually lose weight and get weaker by this time during PCT, so I hope this holds up. I have never felt this good during PCT. My libido is even awesome. With these results does anyone think I should have taken Nolva?
 
I ran RBXT, Fen and LX as a base of my PCT from SD... And it felt like I was still on the SD all the time:D

This time ACT is part of my PCT from E..Max-SD-Others and I can`t wait to get to PCT!
 
sounds to me like you are doing JUST FINE w/o the nolva! I usually take it with RXT and Lean Xtreme just b/c I prefer safe than sorry...but if your doing that good why fix what isnt broke?

good luck brother...impressive results.

regards,
COTC
 
stinkfist said:
What does your dosing of RXT and Activate look like?


BTW that is one impressive bench, nice job.
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Thanks about the bench. I'm taking 3 RXT at night before bed for 20 days(one bottle), then I will take 2 at night for about 10-15 days and then 1 at night for about 10 days. I'm taking the beta version of Activate, so I take 20 pills a day, five of them at night with the RXT. I take 4 Fenugreek at night also(I will be upping This as I go to 6 pills at night). So I take 12 pills before I go to bed.:rasp: I only have about 9 days left of Activate, which I absolutely love. I need more asap DS!
 
Definately a good addition to any pct I run in the future. (I am not going to mention the log I just finished in the DS section)
 
I'll continue to pimp ACT. For me, it seems like I'm still on cycle and the gains are still coming... AMAZING product.
 
activate and rebound xt are completely different supplements.

activate
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rebound xt
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Just to update everyone, I'm on 23 days PCT and maintaining my strength and size. No changes either way and still feel great. This defenitly will be my PCT protocol everytime.
 
jdahlum said:
Is it possible to get Activate right now? Is everyone that is using it on the beta program? Man I want some!!
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Later this week DS will have more beta version again. The final version is 6-8 weeks out though.
 
Thanks man! Do you know how I can get some of the beta? Is it available directly from the their site? Sorry for the questions. Thanks again.
 
jdahlum said:
Thanks man! Do you know how I can get some of the beta? Is it available directly from the their site? Sorry for the questions. Thanks again.
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They said The beta will ONLY be on their site later this week as far as I know. The final version will be available from other retailers also. There is a thread titled "activate" in the DS forum that can give you the info.
 
Someone please explain something to a dummy like me..........

After 5 weeks of a cycle, one would assume any athelete is in a state of endogenous shut down. Designersupps "Activate" is supposed to reduce SHBG. I've read posts elsewhere by Nandi (God rest his soul) that one of the reasons Nolva and Clomid "work" is that, among other things, SHBG is increased. And while I don't wish to speak for anyone else, Big Cat also is posting a specific debate thread on CEM calling into question whether reducing SHBG is a good thing or not.

But let's say for the time being that reducing SHBG is a good thing. If one is in a state of suppression, producing little to zero endogenous testosterone, why should reducing SHBG have any impact on muscle4life's PCT?

Just from a common sense point of view, let's say that by taking this "Activate" supplement, he reduces his SHBG and somenow doubles his unbound endogenous testosterone production........... ok. 2 x 0 = 0.

So is it really that "Activate" is really a great PCT supplement to take, or is it more likely he's experiencing some leftover tail end effects from the cycle he's just completed?

BTW, I'm not knocking the supplement. I just don't understand why the supplement's label claims should be producing any tangible benefits used in this particular way. And in fact, since they produce a different product, "Rebound" for this specific use, I'm questioning why "Activate" should even be considered for PCT.
 
sandinsciuz said:
... I'm questioning why "Activate" should even be considered for PCT.
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First of all, BC is straight trippin' these days. His advice has become very false, biased and hypothetical. If you listen to him, you'd also have to believe that Superdrol is worthless and ramping doses on a cycle is stupid too. I think there are so many positive SD threads on AM and BB alone that you really can't even take him seriously anymore. His own infomation testifies against him! Also, try starting a cycle with 150mg Anadrol/day and 1g of test a week without a ramp. Yeah right! Call me in 2 weeks when your headache finally goes away and you can actually go to the gym again. I don't know why people still listen to him. Same thing with ACT. If it should not be considered it for PCT, then why is literally everyone saying things like "best PCT I've ever had"? His futile augments are based on false science. Results, however, speak for themselves and are impossible to deny, except to hardened fools that can't admit when they are wrong. SHBG is not even "reduced" as you and he are claiming, just bound. Please get your facts straight and don't be another mindless sheep in the BC flock.
 
I'm not the one to ask, but perhaps if unbound endogenous test is very low after a cycle (not zero, however), then doubling it (via Activate, or whatever) would clearly be of benefit (using your example). Hopefully the more knowledgable will be here soon...

sandinsciuz said:
Someone please explain something to a dummy like me..........

After 5 weeks of a cycle, one would assume any athelete is in a state of endogenous shut down. Designersupps "Activate" is supposed to reduce SHBG. I've read posts elsewhere by Nandi (God rest his soul) that one of the reasons Nolva and Clomid "work" is that, among other things, SHBG is increased. And while I don't wish to speak for anyone else, Big Cat also is posting a specific debate thread on CEM calling into question whether reducing SHBG is a good thing or not.

But let's say for the time being that reducing SHBG is a good thing. If one is in a state of suppression, producing little to zero endogenous testosterone, why should reducing SHBG have any impact on muscle4life's PCT?

Just from a common sense point of view, let's say that by taking this "Activate" supplement, he reduces his SHBG and somenow doubles his unbound endogenous testosterone production........... ok. 2 x 0 = 0.

So is it really that "Activate" is really a great PCT supplement to take, or is it more likely he's experiencing some leftover tail end effects from the cycle he's just completed?

BTW, I'm not knocking the supplement. I just don't understand why the supplement's label claims should be producing any tangible benefits used in this particular way. And in fact, since they produce a different product, "Rebound" for this specific use, I'm questioning why "Activate" should even be considered for PCT.
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Grunt76 said:
How you doin' muscles4life? Have the gains stuck?
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Since my PCT, The only supplements I'm currently taking are Activate, Alcar, Taurine, Citrulline and Flax. My body weight continued to 256 lbs, but for the last couple of weeks I've been staying at 254 lbs., which is still up from my cycle and PCT. I'm staying at about the same BF%(about 12%) My bench however is down considerably:sad: to 480 lbs raw. Part of that could be that I haven't been hitting it as hard as I should be lately. Overall I'm very happy with my cycle and PCT, and I would still say it was the best PCT I've ever done hands down.
 
2 x 0 = 0?

You can't apply the rules of multiplication to biochemistry. It isn't the same application. The action of SHBG (aka Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) in the human body is to bind to human sex hormones (testosterone) and render them useless in order to acheive the body's ultimate goal of maintaining homeostasis. The entire reason one uses PH/AAS is to offset homeostasis and to force the body into a state of unnatural growth. In an effort to thwart these attempts the body and that crafty mother nature enact a bevy of responses to upset your plans of world domination. If you can decrease the amount of SHBG in the blood stream that is binding to and nullifying T, then the small amount of T that you have will be more beneficial to you. Beyond that, I would assume (granted I can not be sure) that as your levels of circulating androgens increased via exogenous means, your levels of SHBG would also increase, which could create a severely uncooperative state when the exogenous goodies have subsided. I hope that you understand the multiple goals associated with PCT, and how this process can be aided by the product in question. Indeed RXT is a good product, but so is nolva, which is also not a sufficient PCT if used by itself. Mechanism, Function, Efficiency, Productivity; these are the reasons I run a thourough PCT. Why do you?







You do don't you......................?:blink:
 
your testosterone is not at zero at the beginning of pct. it will take the small amount of test and free some of it up while the anti e is helping your test rise. the only problem I see with it is at wk 4 of pct you free test #'s might be higher than normal and will tell you body to stop increasing test because their is already enough. but if your still on the anti e you will continue to raise test #'s. try reading the write up and see if that explains it better than I can.
 
DR.D said:
.......... SHBG is not even "reduced" as you and he are claiming, just bound. Please get your facts straight and don't be another mindless sheep in the BC flock.
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From the DesignerSupps "Activate" link posted above, here's what the manufacturer says:

ActivaTe™ knocks out SHBG allowing your own testosterone to be free—and build serious muscle.

So you're absolutely correct Dr.D because I mis-spoke and I apologize. I'll try to remember from here forward to use the more technical vernacular they employ, "knocks out" rather than my own poorly paraphrased "reduced".

And shame on me for citing such a misguided authority as Big Cat.

Evidently you didn't read my post very well because I didn't CLAIM anything, and neither did BC on the CEM thread. And at the end of my post I indicated I wasn't knocking the product. I was asking about how SHBG impacted PCT, and I was questioning whether PCT was an appropriate use of "Activate", since they produce another product "Rebound" for that very purpose.

But it sounds like you have it all figured out and know more about it than the DesignerSupps people. Congratulations.
 
I'll be starting my first PCT in about four weeks. I'm halfway through a cycle of e-max lmg. One of the power lifters at my gym convinced me to give it a try and I have to say, so far so good. I have already ordered some Rebound XT, Novedex Extreme, and Retain. I've been told to use Clomid, but all the places I looked at want a prescription. I want to keep the gains I've made (and the ones I hope to make during the last four weeks of this cycle). I've read about 10 different threads concerning PCT, and I'm more confused than ever. I ordered a couple bottles of SD, and I'm planning on doing a cycle after my PCT. Will these supps do the job for my PCT?
 
sandinsciuz said:
From the DesignerSupps "Activate" link posted above, here's what the manufacturer says:

ActivaTe™ knocks out SHBG allowing your own testosterone to be free—and build serious muscle.

So you're absolutely correct Dr.D because I mis-spoke and I apologize. I'll try to remember from here forward to use the more technical vernacular they employ, "knocks out" rather than my own poorly paraphrased "reduced".

And shame on me for citing such a misguided authority as Big Cat.

Evidently you didn't read my post very well because I didn't CLAIM anything, and neither did BC on the CEM thread. And at the end of my post I indicated I wasn't knocking the product. I was asking about how SHBG impacted PCT, and I was questioning whether PCT was an appropriate use of "Activate", since they produce another product "Rebound" for that very purpose.

But it sounds like you have it all figured out and know more about it than the DesignerSupps people. Congratulations.
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Sorry if I gave a bad impression my friend. I'm just so tired of BC's current crap, that's all. Your points are legit and I by no means "have it all figured out." :)
 
delta314 said:
I'll be starting my first PCT in about four weeks. I'm halfway through a cycle of e-max lmg. One of the power lifters at my gym convinced me to give it a try and I have to say, so far so good. I have already ordered some Rebound XT, Novedex Extreme, and Retain. I've been told to use Clomid, but all the places I looked at want a prescription. I want to keep the gains I've made (and the ones I hope to make during the last four weeks of this cycle). I've read about 10 different threads concerning PCT, and I'm more confused than ever. I ordered a couple bottles of SD, and I'm planning on doing a cycle after my PCT. Will these supps do the job for my PCT?
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I just got my pct supps. A bottle of Novedex Extreme, Retain, Rebound XT, and Perfect Cycle. I have 26 days left of my first 8 week cycle with e-max lmg. Will these be enough for pct?
 
muscles4life: im about to start a prop/tbol/igf-1 cycle. im interested in doing a pct similar to urs since u had such good results. my question is what anti-e's were u on during ur cycle?
 
HELP OF EXACT PCT Supps needed

Well I am trying not to get confused here - I was going to take PCT and RETAIN along with a Liver Care product - now Delta 314 and others have me considering adding Novedex XT and ActivaTe - can someone net this out as a standard set of PCT supps and which are choices from one company vs another:
It sounds like we need something to take care of the liver, something to suppress cortsiol and estrigen, and something to increase testosterone (lots of it). I was going to throw in a natural Test booster like LH BOOST for IDS (has Trib) - sounds like a supp with Fenugreek in it may help too. IDS TestoFen had it but is not being sold anymore. More advice please.

Novedex Extreme - anti-aromatase supplements preventing the production of estrogen aromatase inhibitor

Retain - This matrix of compounds including 17a-methyl-baET works by inhibiting a natural enzyme to lower muscle destroying cortisol levels in the muscle tissue. Cortisol is the number one reason for losing muscle mass after an anabolic compound cycle. Retain also increase T-3 production from the thyroid which causes an increase in metabolism and fat-loss.

Rebound XT, -Anabolic Xteme is proud to introduce the most efficient means of controlling estrogen and boosting natural testosterone available through supplementation. Rebound XT containing the highly bioavailable active ingredient Diene-3 will prevent your body from converting muscle-building testosterone into estrogen, while indirectly increasing the amount of total testosterone your body produces. This will allow you to gain strength, enhance recovery and build more muscle. Rebound XT which contains the ingredient Diene-3 can be used either as the core of a post (pro)hormone cycle therapy (PCT) plan, or as a stand-alone, to raise/restore natural testosterone levels and decrease estrogen levels. For best use, combine it with Retain for a well-rounded PCT Stack that lowers estrogen, controls cortisol, and boosts natural testosterone production.



I think this is the same as PCT - PCT (Post Cycle Therapy) is a hormone optimizer that can increase your natural testosterone production by as much as 400%, while combining a new powerful anti-aromatase that decreases estrogen levels in males an average of 50%. There is also a new and highly aromatase inhibiting compound that binds to aromatase more tightly and prevents estrogen conversion. Bottom line, when finishing any Anabolic Xtreme Cycle, no other recovery product will help you keep your gains like PCT.



and Perfect Cycle - liver care (milk thystle, etc) - take this before during and after - till liver enzymes are ok (after another blood test)
 
Novedex, Rebound and PCT are all variants on the theme of ATD and you will meet personal preference for any of them among the crowd.

Retain is almost a must, as is a SERM.
 
Thank you for the response - that helps alot. If I have this straight, I need:
1.) A SERM? (REBOUND XT, PCT, or Novedex) to inhibit estrogen & increase test
2.) RETAIN - to fight cortisol/catabolism
3.) A Liver Care Product (Milk Thystle, etc) - on & post cycle
4.) Optional - through in some natural test booster
 
Heh, Rebound, PCT and novedex are SARMs and also aromatase inhibitors, not SERMS, which are clomid and nolva.

And why do you so insist on your "liver care" in PCT? Did you not use it during your cycle? I'm not saying you don't need to use it in PCT, but if you used it during your cycle, there's no need to put it into your list of PCT supps...!??!
 
Grunt76 Yes I used Liver Care during the cycle - So if I used S ARMS am I covered, or do I need SERMS too?

Last cycle I ran with RETAIN and PCT from AX, and liver came back ok, but test came back slow. From 29 to 284 in 8 wks - originally at 700 a year back.
 
SARMS & SERMS is the way to go, with a big plus to an anti-cortisol... Retain is good.

How did you do that specific PCT and did you log it, what was your cycle like.... ? Many questions here! Maybe you need the unmethylated version of ATD....
 
I suggest liver care pre-, during, and post-cycle. Some prefer to leave them out during the cycle, in fact there is info regarding silymarin negatively affecting the efficacy of some androgens---not disasterously, but to some degree. I think Dr. D referenced the studies.

I use milk thistle and NAC at least before and after cycle, and usually during cycle as well (NAC at least.)
 
milwood said:
I suggest liver care pre-, during, and post-cycle. Some prefer to leave them out during the cycle, in fact there is info regarding silymarin negatively affecting the efficacy of some androgens---not disasterously, but to some degree. I think Dr. D referenced the studies.

I use milk thistle and NAC at least before and after cycle, and usually during cycle as well (NAC at least.)
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I believe you are referring to *MY* ;) thread Invalid Link Removed

I agree with most of what you say but personally I prefer to drop the MT and keep only NAC & ALA going into PCT. I find that the reasoning behind the idea of not using the MT during the cycle is deeply flawed: not hindering gains I can agree with, but taking something that hinders gains while in PCT because you didn't take it during the cycle doesn't make sense IMO. I'd rather gain 10lbs and lose 2 in PCT than gain 15 and lose 10 in PCT.

I feel that if you protected your liver properly during the harshest time, that you don't need as much protection when the threat is gone.

JMO
 
oh, that was your post! Sorry, props to you then!

I'm not sure about the milk thistle thing either at this point, and I usually use it quite regularly no matter what I'm doing (thinking being that I'd rather be (liver) healthy first and foremost when using toxic stuff.

As far as during cycle vs. post (or not) I think the logic would be that the silymarin somehow decreases the efficacy of an androgen/anabolic. Again, I am unsure whether this is conclusive, but as such, it would be logical to leave it out when using the anabolic.

Then, when NOT running the anabolic, you kick it in to protect the liver, but at this point it isn't a negative, because you aren't using something which hinders gains per se, but something that simply may interfere with the compound which you are no longer running anyway.

Again, I'm not sure about any of this, so thanks for your posts and input. I always go better-safe-than-sorry regarding the old liver, 'cause I spent a considerable part of my life punishing it!
 
Well, the evidence is pretty conclusive that even at low doses, sylmarin inhibits 2 of the 3 pathways to PGF2a synthesis, which is ONE (an important one, but just one nonetheless) of the many ways in which AAS increase the muscles' size & strength. This in turn increases the rationale for non-methylated AAS cycles.

During the first 2 weeks of PCT, your natural production of AAS is negligible, so sylmarin's inhibition of PGF2a synthesis isn't a dramatic thing to undergo. OTOH, later during PCT you do want as much of the effects that your natty test will provide. This is absolutely essential to keeping gains.

Now, ALA is also a hepatoprotectant that AFAIK does NOT in any way impede anabolism. It does actually promote anabolism slightly, with its nutrient partitioning properties. N-acetyl-cysteine, one of the most potent hepatoprotectors, does impede anabolism, but only through ONE of the three pathways to PGF2a synthesis.

All these things induce the conclusion that MT is best when used only when necessary, preloading before the methyls, during the cycle, and stopping after 1 week of PCT or so. NAC, IMO, should be started at the same time as the methyls, as it goes to work right away. IMO NAC can be run through PCT. Of course ALA should IMO be a staple to anyone who trains hard so that's that.

A footnote is that MT can be stressful to the liver if taken only sporadically. It is best to start a course and keep it going rather than go on and off, which can actually increase the damage from hepatotoxic substances. Not so with either NAC or ALA.

Of course, I'm always looking to learn more so please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
logan said:
good info Grunt76! makes sense
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yeah, really good. Do you think that a lot of people are overusing milk thistle? I probably am. Now I'm curious if low-moderate dosing all the time is the best plan (except in the PCT time you mentioned) rather than just using it pre-, during, and/or post-cycle? Also, what's the consensus on appropriate daily dosing. Seems to me that many MT supps are pretty underdosed, but maybe that's not the case afterall. I was using about 1200mg/day powder in divided doses 80% silymarin.
 
1000mg is a good dose. I think some people misuse it, some people overuse it, and some people don't use it at all when they should. I think few people optimize their usage. Heck, I've seen a few people doing X-factor with milk thistle, which is just WRONG.

Overall I feel that NAC and ALA are two very good hepatoprotectors that should be on the "A" list, and MT on the "A-" list, meaning to use it when needed, but no more. A natural athlete does put himself at a significant disadvantage IMO when using it except when really needed (i.e. around/during methyls).
 
Grunt76 said:
Heh, Rebound, PCT and novedex are SARMs and also aromatase inhibitors, not SERMS, which are clomid and nolva.

And why do you so insist on your "liver care" in PCT? Did you not use it during your cycle? I'm not saying you don't need to use it in PCT, but if you used it during your cycle, there's no need to put it into your list of PCT supps...!??!
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I only use milk thistle the first few weeks of PCT when SERM intake is still very high.
 
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