BCAAs .. Do they need to be taken as stand alone supp?

[AutoKal47]

Very nice physique my man. I too use BCAAs all the time megadosed before workout and after workout. I also do intermittent fasting with the intent to stay lean year round.

I know you do very little carbs, but how is the rest of your diet with Cal's and macro ratios? What do they look like for bulking? I'm in that boat now and just comparing notes with someone who obviously has succeeded at it

Thank you Rick
yes as you know I do very lil carbs. My calories intake is also not as high, especially considering I train
6 days a week and my session are long and really intense.
I eat something between 1500/1700 cals a day with 1 refeed day a week in which I add 200/300 cals (i started this last one not long
ago and it does help a lot if done "clean" for me in both get lil gains AND losing fat)

What I eat is very simple really, *loads* of chicken and turkey (usually just in the pan with a tbs of natural PB, or slices), egg whites, no fat cottage cheese, greek yogurt mix'd with whey,
oats (lol those lil..), tuna, natural peanut or hazelnut butter
which for me comes in handy to reach the minimum daily cal intake and add some good fats.

I force myself to eat some veggies but I can't stand them so I supplement on those essentials that I miss form the lack of 'em
Macros I'd say are probably 60% protein, 25% fats 15% carbs. Something like this..

Refeed day can go in two directions:

cheap version = protein stays the same, cut the fats but honestly not even so much,
and I enjoy one or two clean meals which is usually sweet potatoes, or fat&sugar free oats pancakes or cookies, beans.. and such.

expensive version: sushi night! No really, I mean instead of going for clean carbs I get the extra calories from good fats

I don't do bulk, I gain very lil weight at the time, and yet in the year and a half with these specs I was actually able to
gain more than I was expecting, in both weight/size and strength. But I really worked hard also on the wo plan to try
to understand what was best for me, I like to believe that had something to do with it too.

 

[RickRock13]

Thank you Rick
yes as you know I do very lil carbs. My calories intake is also not as high, especially considering I train
6 days a week and my session are long and really intense.
I eat something between 1500/1700 cals a day with 1 refeed day a week in which I add 200/300 cals (i started this last one not long
ago and it does help a lot if done "clean" for me in both get lil gains AND losing fat)

What I eat is very simple really, *loads* of chicken and turkey (usually just in the pan with a tbs of natural PB, or slices), egg whites,
no fat cottage cheese, greek yogurt mix'd with whey, oats (lol those lil..), natural peanut or hazelnut butter
which for me comes in handy to reach the minimum daily cal intake and add some good fats.

I force myself to eat some veggies but I can't stand them so I supplement on those essentials that I miss form the lack of 'em
Macros I'd say are probably 60% protein, 25% fats 15% carbs. Something like this..

Refeed day can go in two directions:

cheap version = protein stays the same, cut the fats but honestly not even so much,
and I enjoy one or two clean meals which is usually sweet potatoes, or fat&sugar free oats pancakes or cookies, beans.. and such.

expensive version: sushi night! No really, I mean instead of going for clean carbs I get the extra calories from good fats

I don't do bulk, I gain very lil weight at the time, and yet in the year and a half with these specs I was actually able to
gain more than I was expecting, in both weight/size and strength. But I really worked hard also on the wo plan to try
to understand what was best for me, I like to believe that had something to do with it too.

Thanks for all your info bro. I do have 3 days a week that I eat very similar to yours. Carbs are very low and protein is high with Cal's being somewhere in the 1800 range. That is only on cardio days or my rest day (I too train 6 days a week)

On my 3 lifting days I eat more like on a bulk with carbs in the 250-300 range and total Cal's around 3k for the day.

So far I've been able to recomp pretty well at it. It is very slow but my weight stays the same while I drop bodyfat so I can't complain

 

[AutoKal47]

Thanks for all your info bro. I do have 3 days a week that I eat very similar to yours. Carbs are very low and protein is high with Cal's being somewhere in the 1800 range. That is only on cardio days or my rest day (I too train 6 days a week)

On my 3 lifting days I eat more like on a bulk with carbs in the 250-300 range and total Cal's around 3k for the day.

So far I've been able to recomp pretty well at it. It is very slow but my weight stays the same while I drop bodyfat so I can't complain

No problem bro
That's good that is working for you as well

Actually since I started the refeed
things are getting better and I will want to try to boost cals/carb on my refeed as well,
I just need to do that gradually because I started not long ago to have a (mini)refeed day
and my body still needs to get accustomed to it.
It takes time tho' yes

 

[AutoKal47]

I dont think its very healthy not to eat carbs at all, all the time, at least from veggies ect. should be in there. but you do look good, just wouldent do that year round.

Like I mentioned, I do try my best to supplement for the lack of veggies,
fortunately I am as healthy as it gets, I was also concerned my diet could lead me
overtime to some sort of problem, so I periodically test myself and fortunately enough
results shows that I'm as healthy as it gets.

Recently I've also happened to get a gastroscopy and ecography(ultrasound) because of a stomach
problem that I had, everyone thought was gastritis of some sort but instead
they showed my stomach and other organs are again, super healthy
(turned out to be food poisoning, some bacteria on a probably went bad food)

So yeah, so far so good. The only downside I'd say is low sex drive,
not the performance, it's the actual thought of it, lol you just don't care that much about it
is like your body saying "dude, there's barely enough food for ya, no need to reproduce"

 

[AustrianOakJr]

l
Anyways, I didn't want to annoy you or come out in the wrong way, really
if I did I'm sorry man

Nope, not annoyed in the least. I enjoy intelligent conversation with people who can discuss without flaming and acting ridiculous. And yes....I agree....different strokes for different folks. Thats all. Personally, if I dont have the carbs pumping I get very deflated and my metabolism takes a huge hit. Even in the depths of contest prep at my leanest and most depleted I take in over 200g on my low days. However, my fat intake is very low and my protein is moderate. You just have to find what works.

L
So yeah, so far so good. The only downside I'd say is low sex drive,
not the performance, it's the actual thought of it, lol you just don't care that much about it
is like your body saying "dude, there's barely enough food for ya, no need to reproduce"

One of the big reasons I cant stay lean all year like you do. My testosterone takes a big dive, libido tanks, etc. In reality its not very healthy for the long term. And for a guy your size.....DANG.....1700 cals is really low. Obviously you like the look of being lean, but it would probably help you in the long term to re-acclimate yourself to carbohydrates and repair your metabolism. Put on 10 lbs of fat and see if you could start eating carbs again. Then, try dieting down WITH the carbs and see what a difference it makes. Just my $.02

 

[chedapalooza]

Nope, not annoyed in the least. I enjoy intelligent conversation with people who can discuss without flaming and acting ridiculous. And yes....I agree....different strokes for different folks. Thats all. Personally, if I dont have the carbs pumping I get very deflated and my metabolism takes a huge hit. Even in the depths of contest prep at my leanest and most depleted I take in over 200g on my low days. However, my fat intake is very low and my protein is moderate. You just have to find what works.

One of the big reasons I cant stay lean all year like you do. My testosterone takes a big dive, libido tanks, etc. In reality its not very healthy for the long term. And for a guy your size.....DANG.....1700 cals is really low. Obviously you like the look of being lean, but it would probably help you in the long term to re-acclimate yourself to carbohydrates and repair your metabolism. Put on 10 lbs of fat and see if you could start eating carbs again. Then, try dieting down WITH the carbs and see what a difference it makes. Just my $.02

I think I am in the same slippery slope .. I eat so low carb like 20/30 g a day.. One carb "heavy" day per week or TWO is 100-150g.. Bren like this about 4 years now. I suffered extreme anorexia too 5 years ago.. I was able to make myself eat n be "normal" but pretty much swore off carbs.., definitely libido/energy issues (I take 2 fat burners year round) so I'm getting older n wiser n realizing my appearance is not more important than my health n well being.. Working out should make u feel good, you shouldn't so it like a job.. Which is where I'm currently at... I'm bot sure if there's a question here.. Just adding on to above

 

[AutoKal47]

I've no problems with health nor energy.

I keep gaining size (surely not as fast and if I'd do bulking, but I am *not* after
big gains anyway, that's not my goal), and actually very good strength increases
I will never put 10lbs of fat, not in this life.

I actually not going to change anything
if not slowly and carefully trying to increase cals (not necessarily carbs, just also carbs),
to see if things get better, that's it.

But again, to each his own, what gives

 

[AustrianOakJr]

I will never put 10lbs of fat, not in this life.

Why so afraid of a little fat gain? Heck, I had 10 lbs packed on within a month after my last competition in June. I put the brakes on and im training heavier, more intensely and my libido is back. Its much healthier to carry a bit of bodyfat. Then, when its time to compete, I just peal is back off again. I guess thats probably the difference between a competitive bodybuilder and someone who trains more for aesthetics (correct me if im wrong, and you do compete). I dont really care that I am stark white, hairy and carrying some extra fluff. The only thing that matters is that 20 minutes on stage.

 

[AutoKal47]

Why so afraid of a little fat gain? Heck, I had 10 lbs packed on within a month after my last competition in June. I put the brakes on and im training heavier, more intensely and my libido is back. Its much healthier to carry a bit of bodyfat. Then, when its time to compete, I just peal is back off again. I guess thats probably the difference between a competitive bodybuilder and someone who trains more for aesthetics (correct me if im wrong, and you do compete). I dont really care that I am stark white, hairy and carrying some extra fluff. The only thing that matters is that 20 minutes on stage.

No i don't compete, never did
BB for me is not even about aesthetic, I genuinely enjoy
to push myself, testing my limits and challenge myself, I like to train my willpower
probably more than my body.
The whole superstict diet started because I wanted to see how far I could go
how lean I could get, not just for few days, if I could still push as hard in the gym..

Another reason is that I tend to have anger issues and bb is by far the only
activity that calm me down, the moment in which I can get it all out
in a constructive way.
Lately, probably some paranoia about carrying some fat jumped in the picture

 

[AustrianOakJr]

Lately, probably some paranoia about carrying some fat jumped in the picture

Well, the way I look at it is that carrying some extra BF is a means to an end. I know if I run low on bodyfat and my calories are low (never been as low as 1700 though) my metabolism suffers big time. Ive been to the point where I start to get cold all the time, fingers and toes will lack circulation....ive got a resting HR in the low 40's, etc. I am doing with competition in mind. But as soon as comp is over, i intentionally bring bodyfat up to a level where I am in a better place hormonally and will then put the brakes on and run maintenance calories (or just a hair above) until its time for the next cut.

Now if I were doing the sport simply for myself and to see what I could accomplish in the gym I think I would do it similarly but perhaps set a time of year where I shed the fat to see the progress ive made......ideally, summer time. IDK....just a thought. Its pretty cool to remain shredded all the time, but I dont think its the most healthy and you leave a lot of growth on the table.

 

[AustrianOakJr]

I think I am in the same slippery slope .. I eat so low carb like 20/30 g a day.. One carb "heavy" day per week or TWO is 100-150g.. Bren like this about 4 years now. I suffered extreme anorexia too 5 years ago.. I was able to make myself eat n be "normal" but pretty much swore off carbs.., definitely libido/energy issues (I take 2 fat burners year round) so I'm getting older n wiser n realizing my appearance is not more important than my health n well being.. Working out should make u feel good, you shouldn't so it like a job.. Which is where I'm currently at... I'm bot sure if there's a question here.. Just adding on to above

This is a tough sport in that regard and there are a lot of people who develop ED's because of it. I think its important to remember why we do this sport. Some people do it simply for the look of being big and ripped......OK. I think if that becomes an obsession to the point where you are developing ED's or you are putting your health in jeopardy you may need to look at yourself critically because there are underlying emotional issues. It should be about general health and wellness and for those that compete.....the competition itself. Of course, the by-product of those things is a great physique that you are not ashamed of on the beach. But when that beach physique BECOMES our only motivation, i think we need to analyze ourselves a bit.

If I were you, I woudnt "swear off carbs". Carbs are the most anabolic of the three major macro-nutrients. They fuel the fire of cellular metabolism and keep us in shape hormonally and help us perform at our best in the gym. If we restrict carb intake, our bodies will manufacture the glucose we need. But its not an optimal process.

I would re-introduce carbs slowly. Start with 40g a day for a week, then 50.....then 60, etc. Work them back up, starting to fuel your body with the correct fuel. As your body acclimates itself to the carbs again, you will be able to process more and more.......keep fueling that fire in 10g increments until your metabolism is back in shape.

 

[1Fast400]

Expect prices to go up between now and the end of the year on all BCAA products. Raw materials are going up every quarter. Leucine is the issue. It has gone up 200-250% the past 6 months. These companies with 4:1:1 and 8:1:1 are screwed. Outside of the fact it's a stupid non proven ratio, it will now add a tremendous amount to their bottom line. Companies will either discontinue the product, change the label or mislabel the product in order to adjust. Compared to last year, BCAA's will go up around 10 bucks a kilo. Expect to see those costs pushed to the consumer. You should see the majority of these increases coming in the next 90 days. A lot of companies are just running out of their PO from 6 months ago, when prices were only up 2-3 bucks a kilo, enough for them absorb and not pass on. Another 5 dollar increase just came down.

Anything arginine based, leucine based or protein based are going up every quarter in price. We will be approaching the point of bcaa's and protein being similar prices. Crazy.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Expect prices to go up between now and the end of the year on all BCAA products. Raw materials are going up every quarter. Leucine is the issue. It has gone up 200-250% the past 6 months. These companies with 4:1:1 and 8:1:1 are screwed. Outside of the fact it's a stupid non proven ratio, it will now add a tremendous amount to their bottom line. Companies will either discontinue the product, change the label or mislabel the product in order to adjust. Compared to last year, BCAA's will go up around 10 bucks a kilo. Expect to see those costs pushed to the consumer. You should see the majority of these increases coming in the next 90 days. A lot of companies are just running out of their PO from 6 months ago, when prices were only up 2-3 bucks a kilo, enough for them absorb and not pass on. Another 5 dollar increase just came down.

Anything arginine based, leucine based or protein based are going up every quarter in price. We will be approaching the point of bcaa's and protein being similar prices. Crazy.

What's causing these price increases? Cow's Union on strike?

 

[AutoKal47]

Worst news of the year.. Dammit

 

[1Fast400]

It's a supply and demand issue. Lot of other area's outside of our sports world are in need of these things. There is a massive ramp up of production facilities, but most of these won't come online for another 12-24 months. Doesn't help the world economies are ****, our dollar sucks balls and there are limited suppliers.

I can tell you for a fact that some companies are lying their balls off about some of their ingredients. Some companies claim to use X brand of amino's, but when I work the pricing, it doesn't work out. This X brand company has been up my ass for 18 months trying to get my business, so pricing has been very aggressive from them. With that pricing, I still couldn't make it priced where some companies do and I know I'm buying 10-20x their volume. The joy of the supplement industry

 

[StackedCop]

Expect prices to go up between now and the end of the year on all BCAA products. Raw materials are going up every quarter. Leucine is the issue. It has gone up 200-250% the past 6 months. These companies with 4:1:1 and 8:1:1 are screwed. Outside of the fact it's a stupid non proven ratio, it will now add a tremendous amount to their bottom line. Companies will either discontinue the product, change the label or mislabel the product in order to adjust. Compared to last year, BCAA's will go up around 10 bucks a kilo. Expect to see those costs pushed to the consumer. You should see the majority of these increases coming in the next 90 days. A lot of companies are just running out of their PO from 6 months ago, when prices were only up 2-3 bucks a kilo, enough for them absorb and not pass on. Another 5 dollar increase just came down.

Anything arginine based, leucine based or protein based are going up every quarter in price. We will be approaching the point of bcaa's and protein being similar prices. Crazy.

I know once the price goes up again I won't be using bcaa's or protein. If will be cheaper to eat ****ing new york strip steak and prime rib 6 times a day then a ****ing protein shake.

 

[1Fast400]

It's hard to get a protein manufacture to give you a fixed price for longer than 90 days right now. Everyone is afraid of the prices going up again. I don't think we'll see it level off till mid next year. I know it cost me more to make a 5lb protein than a consumer could BUY one for back in 05.

 

[AutoKal47]

Seriously guys, I'm gonna cry.. BCAA and whey are without a doubt my biggest outcome
as is it.. I need to get endorsed by someone asap lol

 

[AustrianOakJr]

I really dont think you all have much to worry about. I honestly believe many of you spend wayyyy too much on BCAA's. I hate to sound like a salesman.....cause im not. But here goes anyways....ErgoBlitz is NRC's new BCAA/NO-boosting drink. It is not as heavily dosed in BCAA's as Xtend or Purple Wrath, etc. Mainly for the reason that those kinds of dosages are just not needed to ward off catabolism. We can put our (read: your) money into other ingredients and make a more well rounded supplement. So, for those of you who are "mega-dosing" their BCAA's. I would challenge you to try a product such as ours and see if your workouts or development slows down. I would be willing to bet you would continue to grow and perform equally if not better with a much lower dosage of BCAA's. Ergo has a 30 day money back guarantee and its on sale for 50% off right now. Cant go wrong.

You really dont need much Leucine to spark MPS or to act as a buffer to catabolism. Have a small protein meal 45min-1 hr prior to training, a small shot of BCAA's intra workout and then your normal PWO meal. And you have MORE than covered your bases.

 

[1Fast400]

Is the CM you're using in this blitz product bonded or blended CM? The studies showing any benefit on CM were done with bonded, not blended. Why does it have Arginine in it?

 

[AutoKal47]

i've never been worried about catabolism,
I just know (I tried) that the difference in the gym for me with 20gr of BCAA and 40gr is big.
Big enough to cut every other sup if I'd have to but that, whey and fish oil

 

[AustrianOakJr]

Is the CM you're using in this blitz product bonded or blended CM? The studies showing any benefit on CM were done with bonded, not blended. Why does it have Arginine in it?

The arginine is meant to be a good combo with the NADH and CM for vaso-dialation and blood flow. The citruline malate question would be a better one for Adam "BigGunn". Ill PM him and ask him to pop in and answer.

 

[DEE151]

This may seem like an elementary question, but hopefully someone can give me a solid answer. I've never really worried much about taking BCAAs outside of those naturally occurring in my protein powder. Is there a substantial benefit to taking BCAAs on their own as opposed to the 15-20G I am getting a day in protein shakes?

bro you can take BCAA with any thing you want to, I take powerchews BCAA every day some times twice a day cause they taste so good.

 

[mshredded]

Yep, StakedCop dosage is mine as well,
40/50gr a day, 10gr pre, 10gr intra, 5grpwo, the rest you can do it before bed
or between meals depends on when you wo

Thanks man, I'll give it a go this month and see how much better I feel with the added bcaa's.

 

[unvme2]

Enjoyed this thread very much. NIce to see people have a good discussion without someone taking it personal. I have never really been a fan of powder BCAA's. I currently am taking Gaspari's BCAA 6000. It's only been a week so nothing to report. It's a 4:1:1 ratio in only six pills. Right now I am taking it as soon as I am done with working out with a little gatorade and about 20-30 minutes later. Drinking my whey isolate shake.
I am 35 and 217 and looking to get down to 200. You guys think I should take BCAA's pre and post or just post?
And what about drinking it with Gatorade or just water? Would love to hear what everyone thinks.

Other supps I am taking for the next eight weeks.
Erase
CLA
Green Tea Extract
DAA
And 200mg of caffeine with my green tea caps

 

[AutoKal47]

Enjoyed this thread very much. NIce to see people have a good discussion without someone taking it personal. I have never really been a fan of powder BCAA's. I currently am taking Gaspari's BCAA 6000. It's only been a week so nothing to report. It's a 4:1:1 ratio in only six pills. Right now I am taking it as soon as I am done with working out with a little gatorade and about 20-30 minutes later. Drinking my whey isolate shake.
I am 35 and 217 and looking to get down to 200. You guys think I should take BCAA's pre and post or just post?
And what about drinking it with Gatorade or just water? Would love to hear what everyone thinks.

Other supps I am taking for the next eight weeks.
Erase
CLA
Green Tea Extract
DAA
And 200mg of caffeine with my green tea caps

I'd take BCAA prewo only if you wo fasted, and use 'em intra and post.
Also, if you're cutting, I'd drop the gatorade..

my 2cents

 

[unvme2]

So you suggest taking six caps before, during, and post during a cut phase and I can cut the gatorade?

 

[chedapalooza]

So you suggest taking six caps before, during, and post during a cut phase and I can cut the gatorade?

I'd suggest getting a powder first n foremost lol.

If u workout fasted... Take ur bcaa 10-15 min pre, then post... (if u have powder then u could intra as well, pillpoppong during workouts not a good idea IMO)

DEF cut the Gatorade.. Too much sugar n will stop fat burning dead.. Also, I wouldn't take ur protein with animos.. Protein contains them already! So use that dose elsewhere!

 

[AutoKal47]

Yep, get bulk poweder first or xtend
My advice for dosing when dieting is 30gr a day at least
Dose 'em 10gr prewo, 10intra you can leave the last 10gr before bed or between meals
or you can dose it pwo if you're not taking a protein shaker
In any case, drop the gatorade lol (and all the sugar/simple carbs as well)

 

[chedapalooza]

Yep, get bulk poweder first or xtend
My advice for dosing when dieting is 30gr a day at least
Dose 'em 10gr prewo, 10intra you can leave the last 10gr before bed or between meals
or you can dose it pwo if you're not taking a protein shaker
In any case, drop the gatorade lol (and all the sugar/simple carbs as well)

Yea and if ur used to sugar in ur diet, the first day or two are the hardest then it's cake.. Actually sleeping more to avoid meals works for me and really sweet sugar free gum when I crave something sugary! Also any calorie, sodium, caffeine free seltzers are good to satisfy a sweet tooth n empty stomach! Lol

 

[AutoKal47]

or you can pick one of the dozen whey protein based recipes and use stevia
I like sweet stuff, and I have at least 5 different whey based, fat free and carb free desserts
in my diet that taste totally legit

 

[chedapalooza]

or you can pick one of the dozen whey protein based recipes and use stevia
I like sweet stuff, and I have at least 5 different whey based, fat free and carb free desserts
in my diet that taste totally legit

Can u elaborate? Where can I find these recipes?!

 

[chedapalooza]

or you can pick one of the dozen whey protein based recipes and use stevia
I like sweet stuff, and I have at least 5 different whey based, fat free and carb free desserts
in my diet that taste totally legit

Can u elaborate? Where can I find these recipes?

 

[AutoKal47]

Can u elaborate? Where can I find these recipes?

I'm pretty sure there on this same board there is a recipes sub-section
in the nutrition forum

But you just pick something that you like (es. no carb protein pancakes - keto pancakes - no carb cheescake - protein brownie - fat free whatever..) and google it

I collected them in few days, modified them to my needs, and came out with some other myself
If you have an email I can handle you mine no problem

 

[unvme2]

I'd suggest getting a powder first n foremost lol.

If u workout fasted... Take ur bcaa 10-15 min pre, then post... (if u have powder then u could intra as well, pillpoppong during workouts not a good idea IMO)

DEF cut the Gatorade.. Too much sugar n will stop fat burning dead.. Also, I wouldn't take ur protein with animos.. Protein contains them already! So use that dose elsewhere!

I have done both and both seemed fine with me, it's just that pills are just more convient for me. Work two jobs and always on the move it's just easier for me to take pills then powder. The size of them does not really bother me. Gaspari's pills are not that big. I have started taking 6g pre and post workout so will see how that works out for me.